5.0 APS Sage sin Gear

Azgarius - Sanctuary
Azgarius - Sanctuary Posts: 45 Arc User
edited October 2010 in Assassin
Posted this thread to try to answer the sin's eternal concern:

The popular opinion is:
1. Demon sin -> better DD aps wise (permasparker with +25% att speed bonus)
2. Sage sin -> powerful skills/better assist

Now what i am trying to reach is to combine the 2 playstyles to reach 5.0 aps by sage sin.


My calculation:

daggers att/sec: 1.25
daggers interval between hits: 0.8 (1/1.25)

interval between hits we are aiming at: 0.2 (=5.0 att/sec)
-interval we are aiming at: -0,6 (or maybe less with genie skills?)


Standard endgame -interval gear:
Tome (Pan Gu/Love: Up and down): -0,05
Cape (Energetic Robe: Wraithgate/Hallucination/Lunar): -0,05
Bracers (TT99 LA): -0,10
Armor (Rank XIII Armor): -0,10
Leggings (Nirvana G15 LA): -0,05
TT99 LA 2-items bonus (Bracers + boots): -0,05
TT99 HA 2-items bonus (Necklace + belt): -0,05
Weapon (e.g. Nirvana G13): -0,10

Total -interval with that set: -0,55

...which gives:
interval between hits = 0,25 (0,8-0,55)
att/sec. = 4,0


I am looking for any creative ideas that will finely do for the lacking -0,05 interval, whatever it is, an item, a skill, maybe some gienie skill etc. It needs to guarantee a permanent (or covering most of the assault time) -0.05 interval (and therefore 5,0 att/sec.) b:victory


Please exclude the post that:
- state the problem as "not-to-be-solved" one
- insist on calculating the cost of the equipment (the cost does not matter for me)
- complain about Demon sin being better than Sage or the other way
- contain other stuff NOT connected with the problem

Such posts will be treated as off-topic and immediately reported to forum administration.
Post edited by Azgarius - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Amarante - Raging Tide
    Amarante - Raging Tide Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    There's no other -int gear that can push you from 4.0 up to 5.0aps if you're a sage, at that level.

    If you're in it for just hitting stuff at 5 aps 24/7, get a decent, high magic genie with lv 1 windshield. That adds -0.05 int onto your total for 8 seconds.

    For demons, you only need 3.33aps + spark to have a permanent spark going on. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
    For sages, the 4 aps should be enough to have a perma-spark running.
  • Aisubeki - Sanctuary
    Aisubeki - Sanctuary Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Please exclude the post that:
    - state the problem as "not-to-be-solved" one
    - insist on calculating the cost of the equipment (the cost does not matter for me)
    - complain about Demon sin being better than Sage or the other way
    - contain other stuff NOT connected with the problem

    Such posts will be treated as off-topic and immediately reported to forum administration.
    is this your first time posting here? last i checked, you don't have a MOD or GM/CM avatar... i'd suggest NOT telling people how to post if you want help.

    with the situation at hand, you can't get 5 attack speed on a sage, no matter what you try. you will be reliant on genie skills, for a pseudo-5.0, thus wasting time and energy on consumables to feed this constant spam. the skills to make sage do ...1% more damage while sparked, are extremely expensive, you are better off using genie damage increasing skills/survival skills with the shorter fight duration of a demon in conjunction. if you have need for any kind of attack speed related advice, look at the 2.0 version of my guide a few posts down.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    remember our fallen heroes
  • Asheera - Raging Tide
    Asheera - Raging Tide Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    In theory you can get -0.15 interval OHT wrists (triple -0.05) even if that's probably rarer than a 100/100 genie XD

    EDIT: ah but then no bonus from LA set bonus need to think of some way
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • I_Snipe - Lost City
    I_Snipe - Lost City Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Amarante - Raging Tide wrote: »
    There's no other -int gear that can push you from 4.0 up to 5.0aps if you're a sage, at that level.

    If you're in it for just hitting stuff at 5 aps 24/7, get a decent, high magic genie with lv 1 windshield. That adds -0.05 int onto your total for 8 seconds.

    For demons, you only need 3.33aps + spark to have a permanent spark going on. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
    For sages, the 4 aps should be enough to have a perma-spark running.

    I think Amarante is right, 4 APS is the max a Sage Sin can achieve. The only way to boost that even more is with either Windshield or Relentless Courage. You can either spam Windshield or have a high Str Genie to increase Relentless Courage's effect [80 Str would make Relentless Courage = Demon Spark, but lasts only half the time & with a 30 sec cooldown]

    @ 4 APS, I am < 50 Chi short of perma-sparking. That is easily made up with a couple hits before you can Sage Spark again.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    How are you 50 chi short? I'm perma sparking at 4 APS (BM).
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    no piece of -int gear can help, not even 3x -int wrists doesnt help because its equivalent of tt99 wrists
    windshield should be used before sage spark because it can replace your sage spark damage reduction (same icon). relentless courage is less spamable than windshield.

    r8 would be a waste just to get 4aps as sage
    I_Snipe - Lost City wrote: »
    @ 4 APS, I am < 50 Chi short of perma-sparking. That is easily made up with a couple hits before you can Sage Spark again.
    press inner harmony from time to time if you have trouble even at 4aps
  • I_Snipe - Lost City
    I_Snipe - Lost City Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    How are you 50 chi short? I'm perma sparking at 4 APS (BM).

    I worded that wrong, lol. I can "perma-spark". It's just to me, perma-sparking = Sparking while Sparked.

    I'm OCD so I like to Spark when i have 3 Sparks, plus a full Chi Bar. And when said i was less than 50 [it's probably like 20~30 Chi] Chi short of that, I meant i was less than 50 chi short of having that full Chi Bar. I guess it's just the OCD in me...

    I'm not even sure if i made that understandable lol b:surrender

    Edit: kenlee, this is 4 APS on my Archer. My sin will never be able to reach 4 APS unsparked because I can't afford Rank 8 lol. I have/can get everything else but that.
  • Noskrad - Heavens Tear
    Noskrad - Heavens Tear Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    If it exists gear which gives 5 aps to sage sins, then demon sins would get even more aps witht that same gear plus their demon spark.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If it exists gear which gives 5 aps to sage sins, then demon sins would get even more aps witht that same gear plus their demon spark.

    No because APS is capped at 5.0 O_o.
  • cragzor
    cragzor Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ive heard that oht helm can get -int bonus but not sure if its only a rumor xD
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    No because APS is capped at 5.0 O_o.
    more aps would be better coz you can finally use CoD and have 5aps... if that would ever happen hehe. at least is possible with fists
    cragzor wrote: »
    Ive heard that oht helm can get -int bonus but not sure if its only a rumor xD
    these are the options that you can get on oht helm
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20326
  • Aisubeki - Sanctuary
    Aisubeki - Sanctuary Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    more aps would be better coz you can finally use CoD and have 5aps... if that would ever happen hehe. at least is possible with fists


    these are the options that you can get on oht helm
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20326
    and if that were the case, that would be more reason to go demon, with the 70% speed reduction instead of 100% + spark.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    remember our fallen heroes
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Amarante - Raging Tide wrote: »
    There's no other -int gear that can push you from 4.0 up to 5.0aps if you're a sage, at that level.

    If you're in it for just hitting stuff at 5 aps 24/7, get a decent, high magic genie with lv 1 windshield. That adds -0.05 int onto your total for 8 seconds.

    For demons, you only need 3.33aps + spark to have a permanent spark going on. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
    For sages, the 4 aps should be enough to have a perma-spark running.

    get a genie with 100 magic and spam level 1 wind shield. thats perma 5aps for you.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Deathiris - Sanctuary
    Deathiris - Sanctuary Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    crimson soul powder
    sage slipstream [lol 3 sec effect 6 sec cd?]
    wind shield
    relentless
    red bubble? [er would over ride spark damage, but the 20% IAS is sufficient to go from 4.0 to 5.0]
    Trick the game into thinking you are a BM and learn demon cyclone heel
    ....

    wait until ultra-rank12-warsouly-nirvana gear set is released
  • Azgarius - Sanctuary
    Azgarius - Sanctuary Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Link to build:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f351ed976f89ab57

    4.0 is max i could do using the pwcalc system. Now will a perma-windshield make it 5.0?

    I noticed the system "lies" because when i set 3.33 aps and used demon spark by "skills" it showed 4.35 aps (bearing in mind that there are sins around making 3.33 to 5.0 by means of demon spark). How will it behave with wind shield 10% aps bonus from 4.0? Anyone has a clue?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Azgarius - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Link to build:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f351ed976f89ab57

    4.0 is max i could do using the pwcalc system. Now will a perma-windshield make it 5.0?

    I noticed the system "lies" because when i set 3.33 aps and used demon spark by "skills" it showed 4.35 aps (bearing in mind that there are sins around making 3.33 to 5.0 by means of demon spark). How will it behave with wind shield 10% aps bonus from 4.0? Anyone has a clue?

    The reason PwCalc shows some roundings different is because they're still tweaking the TB part of the simulator. One of those things is to set the rounding rules for attack speed increases. The way pwcalc does it right now is mathematically correct, whereas the game rounds it a bit differently.

    At 4.0 APS and 10% attack speed increase, you end up with an attack interval of 0.225, which will round down to 0.2, or 5 APS.

    As for that PWcalc, there are a few things I'd like to say about it:
    1. You're mixing and matching Lunar and TT Nirvanas, that's bad. You should only use one set so that you'll get the extra +5 attack levels.
    2. Socketing all attack level gems is a bit of a questionable choice. It makes your sin extremely vulnerable to damage.
    3. Equipping arrows doesn't affect any attacks that are not made while using those arrows. That is, even if you equip an arrow with +150 phys attack and +1% crit, you won't get those bonuses unless you're using a bow.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Aisubeki - Sanctuary
    Aisubeki - Sanctuary Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    2. Socketing all attack level gems is a bit of a questionable choice. It makes your sin extremely vulnerable to damage.
    no it doesn't. look at linnkotsu's armor. with it and jones' blessing he has well over 50 atk level. as long as you have ~7+ refines on armor for hp, you'll be fine. vulnerable.. lol.

    this thread is dumb, not like that calc is ever going to be affordable w/o your college tuition, might be smarter to aim lower for something like just a reasonable 2.0-2.86 unsparked.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    remember our fallen heroes
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Aisubeki - Sanctuary wrote: »
    no it doesn't. look at linnkotsu's armor. with it and jones' blessing he has well over 50 atk level. as long as you have ~7+ refines on armor for hp, you'll be fine. vulnerable.. lol.

    Well of course, there's the aspect of defense via offense. But then again, Linnkotsu is an Archer, so the attack levels are actually useful in killing stuff before it gets to you.

    And of course, if you can actually afford G12 gear with 4 sockets with attack level gems in them, you'd be in the tier that doesn't get killed easily.
    this thread is dumb, not like that calc is ever going to be affordable w/o your college tuition, might be smarter to aim lower for something like just a reasonable 2.0-2.86 unsparked.

    Wait, if my uni doesn't have tuition fees, does that mean I get said calc for free? Where do I apply?

    As for me, I'm probably gonna end up at 1.82 pre-99. If I ever get to 99, I'd get to 2.22. And I'm still gonna go sage.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    olba your gonna PvP instead of rapid DD? oo
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    olba your gonna PvP instead of rapid DD? oo

    Um, what? I'm going Sage simply because I find that the skills give a better balance.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Avryll - Sanctuary
    Avryll - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Um, what? I'm going Sage simply because I find that the skills give a better balance.
    or just pure stubborness to try and break the status quo, even if it does make him severely inferior. that whole 'its up to your playstyle' argument is such a crock of pseudojustifiable bull ****.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Avryll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    or just pure stubborness to try and break the status quo, even if it does make him severely inferior. that whole 'its up to your playstyle' argument is such a crock of pseudojustifiable bull ****.

    Gah... I never claimed that, for pure DDing, Sage > Demon. In fact, I never said that Sage > Demon at all. However, it IS a fact that Sages can take damage better than Demons, due to having a better Bloodpaint, a better Focused Mind and the damage reduction from the spark.

    And my personal opinion just happens to be that sins deal enough damage as is and therefore I find that focusing on fortifying their defenses is, in my opinion, better. Yes, I put "opinion" twice there so that it'd be really obvious. And by "enough" damage I mean that my level 80 Sin has the same DPS as my 92 Archer.

    And personally, even if some of the Demon skills (RDS, IH) would please me, I'm still going Sage because they're gonna have an easier time getting hit.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.

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