Axe/Hammer v Fist

Pure build is not a good idea after 80 imo. If we compare the 'best' (ie. most used) fist build 3 str/2 dex to vit axe the only real advantage of vit axe is PvPing and even then the HP difference isn't that much if you cap your str to 212 before 90 (like you should unless you don't want to get reset notes), stat rest to dex and vit. You will also benefit from high dex when fighting archers or oh-so-common sins. Of course misties help but they help an all path build too.

As for PvE, you don't 'need' axes before starting doing FCC runs. Even then, the HP difference doesn't matter there since you aren't supposed to take much damage there. You can easily tank the bosses with 5k HP. Your chi gain and DPS will help with bosses in BHs/FCC. Also, by 80 you should be able to have enough SP to max your axes AoEs. If you wanna AoE grind starting at 70 it's not impossible either; I had level 7 axe AoEs by the time I started grinding on Thiefs.

There is no such thing as pure fist, it's 3 str/2 dex per level.

In my opinion, fists are not the must-have thing before 90 (or 95, 99 or 100) but getting a ton of vit is not going to give you an edge in PvE either. It's actually going to hurt you more; you can't tank BHs (much more fun than letting a barb do that :P) or FCC bosses. By the time you want to AoE in BH (51 is pretty much the first one people want to use AoEs in, 59 has some parts and after that it's not a factor since BHs are usually wined) you can already afford axes and axe skills on top of your fists and fist skills.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

fist is pretty much useless before 90 (in my opinion) but at 90 it can be okey if u get fc fist and tt90 gold bracers and have lunar cape and tome thats -25 rite der

no they are good from lvl 29 for the chi gain and decent dps also the irony of somone named fistmama saying this is priceless

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Fists w/o interval still out DPS other weapon in 1v1 so will still be the best choice for single target killing no matter what level you are.

single swords/blades actually have slightly higher dps before you get int/spam wind sheild

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DQ bracers cost about the same as tt 90 gold arms and are 60+ but they are rareish and most people 4 socket and refine em so 10-15 mill for premade or 8 mill for orders on sanc

my lvl 34 wizzie has made a little over a mill just killing for quests though so im shure you can get 8 by 60 with TB quests/grinding instead of bh

all else failing -.05 bracers are dirt cheap and easy enough to find on AH as are 3* -.05 73 fists

ideal weapon progression for pve would be:

swords to 29/30>fists to 40>axes and fists to 86(keep a cheapy tt sword and maxed MSS though) > 90+ all weapon

Thanks for the info guys

Always trust Okeano to call someone on their **** with simple calculations that anyone could do before making a baseless claim. x:

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Blade DPS: ((1375 + 2138) / 2)*1.11*((7/100) + 1) = 2086.19505

Fists DPS: ((1354 + 1449) / 2) *1.43*((7/100) + 1) = 2144.43515

On top of that there is the more frequent spark from faster chi gain.

"at a low lvl" you get wind sheild at lvl 29 even if you never feed your geni exp/spirit + any shards/phys mods/rings raise fist dps more than any other weapon

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok? What does Windshield have to do with blade not out DPS fists w/o Windshield, contradicting to "single swords/blades actually have slightly higher dps before you get int/spam wind sheild". You merely said "before interval", but even "at a low lvl",

Blade DPS: ((455 + 630) / 2) * 1.11 * ((5 / 100) + 1) = 632.28375
Claws DPS: ((377 + 471) / 2) * 1.43 * ((5 / 100) + 1) = 636.63600

And yes, identical shards and rings contributes more to fists DPS than other slower weapon. So swords/blades out DPS fists how?

base damage/refine rate would out DD at lower lvls with **** shards and low grade rings or at higher lvls with no int and high weapon refines (rule of thumb is +5 or so) on both OR if anyone ever manages to hit attack speed cap with a blade

wind is basicly really really cheap int

(really need to be more specific when i post these things the 1st time)

roco11 wrote: »

I know this has been talked about forever but...

I hear people in their 60's and 70's talking about statting for fists.

I think that until your in your mid 90s maybe even 100 you should do axe/hammer (i.e. str vit) this way you can take a beating and deal damage and have your aoe skills to grind/fb/bh/fc this will allow you to level much faster and be a better team member for these instances...let the barb tank.


So I plan on str vit until str is 272 for calluosed axes, then calculate the dex req for fists and stat dex from there (may have to buy restat scrolls) .

If I am way off base and you believe otherwise please explain.
I do not pretend to know everything
Jack

I found it becomes more viable to go fists once you hit 70+, where your cyclone increases attack speed more, can get the self healing claws, and statting out vit becomes a better idea anyways, as well as using flawless+ shards which are dirt cheap so long as there's packs. Otherwise you're going to be doing BH's, for instance, where you're far squishier, lacking the HP, unless you're so rich you can afford heavily refining level 40-60 gear highly, in which case, may as well just use oracles or drop a pile of coins on the ground in arch, and your likelihood of making up for the occasional crappy cleric is far less. Axes alone are more than sufficient til that high.

Fist are quite useful pre 9x:

1) kill mobs faster due to higher dps. Even when I got calamities my fist were great and getting a cheap (100-400k) pair of -0.05 wrist helped for a 1.54 aps without any buffs.

2) fist reduce mp pot usage tremendously. Also killing faster reduces hp pot usage as well.

3) great for building up sparks fast for HF.

4) shadowless kick was a tremendous help versus magic mobs.

5) cyclone heel gives you a nice attack speed boost and also serves as another AOE skill.



Those points aside I still like my axes. But they have their time and place:

1) spike damage for pking

2) FC

3) AOE grinding on NightScream Isle

4) stuns


Once I have satisfied my axe/fist setup I may add a spear to the mix but for now I find that a 3/2 str/dex build performs admirably from start till now. My only weaknesses are HP and magic defense and my genie and pots do an admirable job of compensating for those weakness. Of course there is also sharding and refining.

For me its not a matter of axe versus fist or any other weapon for that matter. For me its about using what best suits your situation (cash flow/time/luck etc.) and the situation (pk/FC/tw etc.).