Archer or Blademaster?

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Comments

  • Roin - Harshlands
    Roin - Harshlands Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    why is this THING ( the jahahalil) still not perma - banned? b:angry
    for both insulting and being 'intelligent'.
    all squad 5 aps - watch some videos how ppl kill them in 10 seconds. where does one need health there? AD and youre alive and boss is dead. some ppl just havent tried playing archers.. there are alot of tricks they can have to survive.. bloodpaint is of course a minus to archers, but they have wings, shield - therefore better chances of surviving if needed. ofc bm is always a better tank. i never said confidently about not being able to use skills with claws, i said if i remmembered, no need to be rude and take the .. out of your eyes then reading. Lol about wizards being 5 aps. and about the pataka - it was a joke. i play this game 2nd year and not oracle - nub like you did obviously. before you call archers re.smth again, you totally 'gifted' people - watch this again..... and as i mentioned before, it depend on gear, not the class.. its an archer btw. IT DEPENDS ON GEAR, NOT THE CLASS!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LghNlSUcs&p=2A11CE7B5836714C&playnext=1&index=70

    and im out cos too many fa.gsmth here b:bye

    wow you fail hard stay off the forums and a bm/sin are with 5 aps are better then a archer with dps and tanking i don't think anyone said a archer can not tank they just said that bm/sin are better which they are and how can you play for 2 years and not know fists/claws share the same mastery fail harder noob b:bye
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Archers are good DDs with claws and 5 APS, I'll admit. But they suck major donkey balls if you do Nirvana without a cleric (Which lets be honest, people are pulling off with a bunch of 3.33 APS these days).

    I have to ask: how does this even make sense?

    If you do not have a cleric, then presumably your squad has other 5aps people besides the archer?

    So if your archer pulls aggro she (or he) just has to step back for a moment and someone else can pull aggro back?

    Meanwhile, when you are working on pulling aggro, you are getting 20% of your total health back every 15 seconds, you are invulnerable for another 3 of those 15 seconds, and you can use potions or tree of protection if that were not enough. Which should be plenty for a non-tank, I would think?

    So the only way this even makes sense, to me, would be if the archer was doing so much damage that your other 5aps people could not hold aggro off your archer. And if, for example, you have a 5aps-dagger-using-assassin in your squad, that possibility seems... remote.
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Archers are good DDs with claws and 5 APS, I'll admit. But they suck major donkey balls if you do Nirvana without a cleric (Which lets be honest, people are pulling off with a bunch of 3.33 APS these days).

    1. Squishy mafakers that get 2 shot by anything in there without a cleric healing.
    2. Bloodpaint doesn't affect them, thus they can't possibly survive on crab meats alone.
    3. In a team of all 4 APS or higher chars, their damage is bad compared to a BM and let alone an assassin.
    4. Only 1 out of 10 100+ Archers have bloodvow.
    5. 10 out of 10 assassins and blademasters have Heaven's flame and Subsea strike.

    .


    How often do you as archer pull aggro with claws and die in Nirvana? If there is any other 5.0 in party there is no way i will draw agro unless people go afk.

    Which is the main problem, archers with 5.0 do less dmg than Bm and Sins ( even less than barbs since they have way more strength) making you a **** DD compare to other 5.0 with similar gear and refines. Thats what sucks "donkey balls" not if you happen to get aggro lol.

    Normally you only take 2-3 hits at most from Nirvana bosses random agro as 5.0 archer anyway. Which really cant kill any archer unless you have the worse gear on server.

    Nirvana is easy-mode, bosses hits 1.5k-2k max. I can easily tank it with hp-charm and pots if i had to.

    But Blood Vow does suck compare to HF. Its however better than Subsea strike since it stacks with Poison.

    Anyway no one really makes archers anymore besides a few casual gamers that thinks bows are cool. BMs and sins are the main DDs and tankers now, its how they choose to develop the game. So to OP i would suggest make a BM.
  • Jhalil - Heavens Tear
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear Posts: 865 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    More stuff

    For one, GM's don't give a ****. Now that's out of the way.
    Bravo, you get shown your place and shown how stupid you are. Quick! play the oracle card!
    For one, I've been here just as long, this particular account is over a year old, my other first account was created during the first beta launch. Congratulations, you've seen right through me.
    Second, yes. Because all archers have +10 gear with all +10 vit stones sharded like the one in your video. How could I have been so blind.
    My third point, you've been here for 2 years as you said and you still don't even "remember" simple matters such as what skills classes use with what weapons? Yeah, good luck. You're going to grow up to be the president soon. Pat yourself on the back.

    To the other two, Nirvana is easily tanked yes. But there ARE bosses that will kill Archers with no one healing them.
    One example is the tin can (forgot his name), his AoE will 1-3 shot most "average" geared archers, considering a majority of players are not charmed anymore (TW is dead, nothing requires you to be charmed anymore besides PVP, which also. Is not most people's day-to-day activity).
    In the same part there's the runner boss which upon random agro again can 1-2 shot an archer, easily. After a seal the boss will most certainly get anywhere between 1 to 4 shots on a person before the "main" damage dealer gets gets back agro, this can be because of seal/spark timing or any other factor. But it still happens often enough to be annoying.

    Then there's the flame boss, if that thing uses it's instant 50% HP gone AoE and spawns a fire or two, the archer will die as well.

    Of course, the bosses will/should die fast enough in a non-cleric-full-5APS-squad. But the archer's survival rate is far, far, far below any of the other classes in such a situation. Anyway, this was just an example. Didn't mean to go in to a full discussion about "uber" nirvana squads and stuff.
    As I said, I'm not saying Archers are inferior in every single way and are completely useless. I'm just saying as a DPS class the only reason people play them (aside from a minor "fun" factor that they use bows) is that they're the cheapest 5 APS class. Well, along with Assassins now anyway, if they use claws.
    Just a quick comment about Blood Vow being better than Subsea. It's true that Blood Vow stacks with EP, but Subsea stacks with HF, thus it technically would still provide more damage with HF + subsea than HF + EP/Bloodvow+EP

    At Quilue, Name 10 15k+ 10k+ defense archers on your server.

    Only top DDs run Nirvana with no cleric? What?
    I do it on several occasions, I have 3.33 APS, SPARKED (For those wondering, that's considered low in most cases). Usually squad will consist of:
    Me (3.33)
    3 other BMs (4.0)
    Sage Assassin with sage bloodpaint (2.5)
    Demon assassin (2.86 aps)

    That's the last setup I used to do this with. Highest refine was a +10 TT100 fist, and that BM's armor was average/good-ish at best. The other BMs including me had +5-+7 Deicides and +4-+5 refines on armor. Each run we did in 15-20 minutes.
    You can get that setup for a squad using WC, you don't even need to have them all in your friendship circle. So I have no idea where you got that statement from that only the "top DDs" do Nirvana with no cleric.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Still trying to move your cursor, eh?
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Personaly, I think anyone playing an archer for pure dps does not know how to play an archer.

    Archers have quite a bit of utility.

    That said, in multiple target situations, archers can potentially out-dps other classes (and not just because of barrage, if they understand how to do so).
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Umm if you are in a 5.0 nirvana squad with no cleric it means you have a 5.0 sin.
    If you have a 5.0 sin then there is no way an archer or BM will be tanking.
    If you arent tanking you don't need heals and don't need blood paint.

    Anyway ya Nirvana is a joke. The only bosses with anything resembling a strong attack are the centaur and the golem and both of those die very fast.
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  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    back b:thanks

    well at least you said archers are not ... as this waffle*** was saying..
    i agree archers are not best dds, i never said so, but i said they were as good as bms. and its cos i know both dex archers and str archers.. str points give physical attack, dexterity gives crit rate. bms with more str hit more - of course - but they only get 20, top 25% crit, while archer normally has 33%, and that is a difference.. so bm looses crits cos he puts points in str, and archer looses attack dmg, cos he puts points in dex usually and gets more crit.. blablablablabla..
    sin however puts points in dex, and his daggers benefit from dex = his physical attack higher and his critrate higher, that makes them the very best dds. but there are not so many of them :) i wasnt talking about sins earlier well cos the thread says archers or blademasters...
    yes archers are cheaper, and obviously on ur server they su.k cos else you wouldnt say so much .. about them :) here at least i personally know like 2 sins who are 5aps, like 6 bms, and like 20-30 archers.. generally been in countless of squads with archers and they are just as good, and its way easier to get them, we need 1-2 bms however for hf, cos we hit 2x more then they use that sometimes.. bad thing in nirvana is ranged classes, cos with random agro if we spark and boss runs away we waste our dps.. best id say would be 1 veno 2 sins 2 bms 1 archer or more common 1 veno 1 bms 1 sin 2 archers 1 clericn (or 3 archers if sin can keep agro)..
    so conclusion = if you want to be the best dd, make a sin with insane gear :) tho i want to be sniper endgame, and i just made aps. stuff to farm gear faster >.> with 440 dex i still deal decent dmg with bow, if i went all - str (got an example) archer, would be like no difference from bms at all... maybe even better with blazing arrow, but would have no ranged dmg. all - str archers can use same equipment as bms now tell me wheres the difference here...
    anyways here a couple non-archers QQ way too much...
  • Anchali - Heavens Tear
    Anchali - Heavens Tear Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    *ignores everyone but topic starter*

    go archer... you're in a archer thread. we koo .. lol
    archer is awesome.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    crappy spam
    dragonbane.... it adds 25% extra crit, sayhello to BM with more crit than archer.
    if you want to be 5.0 be a sin or BM that can actually take damage/deal it better, rather than make a paragraph of spam explaining the obvious and uneducated.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    dragonbane.... it adds 25% extra crit, sayhello to BM with more crit than archer.
    if you want to be 5.0 be a sin or BM that can actually take damage/deal it better, rather than make a paragraph of spam explaining the obvious and uneducated.

    dragons bane is not spamable sadly but demon GS cancle is

    adds on (100-your crit rate/2) for 5 seconds after cancle (difference in crit/50% proc rate)

    *poofs*
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    dragons bane is not spamable sadly but demon GS cancle is

    adds on (100-your crit rate/2) for 5 seconds after cancle (difference in crit/50% proc rate)

    *poofs*
    either way, crit is comparable! bm is nasty monster!
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    You really won't notice much damage difference between a 5.0 archer and bm. There is a noticeable difference in survivability sure but with full say +7 gear and a good cleric archers can tank pretty much anything.
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  • ImReallyWhyt - Heavens Tear
    ImReallyWhyt - Heavens Tear Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ..archers can perform jsut as good with medium -int than 4-5 int..tacking on genie skills..
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I really wanna stick around to see if they (PWI) have the balls to make fists/claws BM only. I doubt it. However, I do wonder what a good portion of archers would do if this occurred.

    The one thing I liked a lot about my archer was, while she was 3 APS with fists, she also could switch to bow and range kill + AOE. Then it comes down to preference. I am very much biased toward ranged classes, so I actually liked the variety my archer gave me with crappy 3 APS than my 5 APS BM, though, I must admit I did like RB a lot more with my BM than archer, but for FF and BH, pretty much the opposite. I dunno why but clerics generally healed my archer taking and holding aggro (particularly ranged) way more than they did my BM. It can get very tiring when being a perpetual aggro hog to eat up countless pots as a BM or go through charm ticks because a cleric feels they should only heal a barb (or has more of an eye out to heal an archer or wiz or psychic).
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    You really won't notice much damage difference between a 5.0 archer and bm. There is a noticeable difference in survivability sure but with full say +7 gear and a good cleric archers can tank pretty much anything.

    Personally, I think I survive ok, and I do not have anything above +5, yet.

    But I so very much need better gear...

    (A big problem, for many, once they pass 100, seems to be that visible progress becomes vanishingly small. Initially, each kill is something like 10% of a level, and every hour it seems like we are getting new gear and an improved attack. But now? We have to save up for any decent gear and that means long long stretches of no apparent improvement...)
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    dragonbane.... it adds 25% extra crit, sayhello to BM with more crit than archer.
    if you want to be 5.0 be a sin or BM that can actually take damage/deal it better, rather than make a paragraph of spam explaining the obvious and uneducated.

    no spam - just perma-ignore b:bye

    p.s. still havent met a single bm/sin who is lower then 4 aps (im 4 aps) and can keep agro off me. not a single one of them, and done hundreds if not thousands instance runs :) 4aps same gear sin > 4 aps same gear archer obviously, but idk about bms.
  • SneakyStalk - Harshlands
    SneakyStalk - Harshlands Posts: 440 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Getting 5 dps is more expensive (on BM) than an arch though.
    .

    Why is that? o.o
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Why is that? o.o

    I'd say he means APS. And it's obviously because BMs don't get Rank armor with -interval.
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