Can you solo dungeons/grind coin well w/o a Herc as a Veno?

Ragdolls - Harshlands
Ragdolls - Harshlands Posts: 4 Arc User
edited October 2010 in Venomancer
Its time for me to make an alt to farm up some coin to support my main character and I'm hoping a veno will be able to do just that.
Is it possible for a veno to farm dungeons effectively w/o a herc?
Post edited by Ragdolls - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Reardon - Heavens Tear
    Reardon - Heavens Tear Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Is it possible for a veno to farm dungeons effectively w/o a herc?

    Yes. It's just a matter of having the correct pet to attack at the boss's weakness. An Eldergoth Marksman or Cactopods make good ranged pets, the Magmites make good melee attackers. But you may be able to find another thread with better info.

    I have a lvl 75+ veno that I use to farm Dragon Quest drops and can make 80k+ an hour.

    The veno is the strongest solo character available IMO.

    EDIT: I haven't tried to solo any of the TT or other special instances. I've soloed the FBs up to FB39
    The One and Only Copper Commando Barbarian b:victory
  • Yindra - Sanctuary
    Yindra - Sanctuary Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Is it possible for a veno to farm dungeons effectively w/o a herc?

    Depends on what you mean by "effectively". So far, I've been able to do FB19 and FB29. I haven't tried FB39 in a while, and I know I can't do 49 and up.

    So, I could solo FB29. Great deal, considering the drop penalty due to level difference. Actually, I think when I did my FB29 at lvl 63, the guy actually did grace me with a drop --- he gave me a potion. Yeah!

    Anything around my own level, be it dungeons or single bosses, is impossible. I'm still waiting for General Feng to be "killable" to continue with the Tideborn chain... he keeps crushing my golem in no time, even though the numbers given in the database don't quite explain that.

    Maybe with a ton of uber gear, channeling in particular, things might look slightly better, but considering that dungeons "my level" have bosses with a maxdamage that's more than twice as high as the highest boss I've been able to kill, I very much doubt you can actually gap THAT difference without a Hercules.
    Slow progress, game is getting way too grindy :-( Quests I still hope to be able to do some day: FB39, General Feng
  • MaouHime - Raging Tide
    MaouHime - Raging Tide Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I do not intend to offend you Yindra, but you can actually solo FB29 at lvl 45+ even though it is quite/extremely hard.
    As suggested in many Threads I used a ranged Pet to tank Qingzi and for me it was my Eldergoth Sharpshooter (yes not the Marksman b:laugh).
    I was lvl 50 when I did it the first time solo and my Eldergoth would have died after 3 hits. So I gave him Tough to make it a little easier.

    Well I don't know if you would be interested in these particular information, but I will mention them (even though its out of my poor memory b:surrender).

    My Eldergoth had around 1.4k HP and took 300-650 dmg from Qingzi's ranged attack.
    So as unlucky as I am I often got hit by 2 times ~600 dmg in a row and he almost died, really tricky situation here. However, fortunately my Pet Heal healed around 500 or 600 at max, so I could negate it...(often it was really, really close though)

    Well and as stupid as I was I only healed him, because I was afraid to send in a spell during my heals thinking my pet might die if I do so. However, after I tested it, it really sped things up (I only did it after I read that Brael does it as well b:laugh).

    Additionally as you may already know or heard million times, don't use your spells too early, because you will surely take aggro away from your pet (it happened to me at the beginning a few times and it was truly frustrating)

    Ahh, and about the drops. There really were some times when he only dropped Coins, but also some when he dropped really nice 3Star gears (well Capes/Pendants, I think about 2-4 dropps) with really nice Adds.
    If I am not completely mistaken he dropped 50% of the time I did him.

    Well I hope it can be of use to anyone/you.
  • Blood_Panda - Raging Tide
    Blood_Panda - Raging Tide Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Anything around my own level, be it dungeons or single bosses, is impossible. I'm still waiting for General Feng to be "killable" to continue with the Tideborn chain... he keeps crushing my golem in no time, even though the numbers given in the database don't quite explain that.

    you have to really wait a long time if you want to wait till he is killable.

    Feng has a debuff that kills golem immediate after he hit. pet cant be purified so.. you cant do much on that..
    Build Aiming for : pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=99d12b053ed06fe9
    Retired : pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a798089d5502e95b
    17k hp since level 92.. now @ 13k Hp on 100
  • Namidatears - Harshlands
    Namidatears - Harshlands Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Feng has a debuff that kills golem immediate after he hit. pet cant be purified so.. you cant do much on that..[/QUOTE]

    Yep...same debuff like Wybern (FB 49)....pet dies beacouse you cant heal it.
    But whos care a few of bosses when you can tank to much others?
    b:bye
    =Palynzer= b:bye
  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Depends on what you mean by "effectively". So far, I've been able to do FB19 and FB29. I haven't tried FB39 in a while, and I know I can't do 49 and up.

    So, I could solo FB29. Great deal, considering the drop penalty due to level difference. Actually, I think when I did my FB29 at lvl 63, the guy actually did grace me with a drop --- he gave me a potion. Yeah!

    Anything around my own level, be it dungeons or single bosses, is impossible. I'm still waiting for General Feng to be "killable" to continue with the Tideborn chain... he keeps crushing my golem in no time, even though the numbers given in the database don't quite explain that.

    Maybe with a ton of uber gear, channeling in particular, things might look slightly better, but considering that dungeons "my level" have bosses with a maxdamage that's more than twice as high as the highest boss I've been able to kill, I very much doubt you can actually gap THAT difference without a Hercules.

    FYI, doing dungeons with any pet at "character level" is not easy.

    Ya know Yindra, I come across your posts often and you just don't sound happy being a veno at all.
  • Thedarkrealm - Lost City
    Thedarkrealm - Lost City Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I've solo'd fb 19- 51 and hh60, I dont really see the point in it it takes a long time to get through all the mobs and by the end its just as boring as heavy grinding and the drops are almost never worth it. I get bored real easy so I just grind a bit or try catch rares or even go catch & sell tank pets and saw flies for the coin. At least that way if you get bored and want to afk you can without the worry of instance reset
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    When it comes to grinding mobs the Venomancer class is certainly the most suitable because if you manage things right, you will never get hit (no need for HP pots) and with your HP/MP regeneration skills you will not need MP pots often/at all. You will not have any repair costs (expect for the weapon) because it's your pet who takes the hits. So you'll probably just spend 10k out of the 100k you will grind unlike other classes who will have to spend more for pots and repairs. The final profit is bigger.

    Now, you also need to know where, what and how to grind.

    -If you want to get money as fast as possible always fight mobs 1 vs 1. Don't do AoE because it takes longer to kill mobs that way. However, don't slave yourself. Try out things and have fun. I'm just mentioning the most effective way.

    -Make a quick research every time you change mobs (because of level range etc.) to what things they drop. Apart from Dragon Quest drops it's also good to grind for pet food such as hay and fruits because they're still damanded. Try to sell your DQ drops and pet food to other players (usually catshops). Though almost nobody does Dragon Quests anymore so DQ should go to NPC I suppose. I sell mine at NPCs too...
    Also, avoid crowded places.

    - What mobs should you grind? The ones that can be killed faster (which are usually melee mobs because magic/ranged tend to run away). If you search a bit you should be able to find threads asking about what mobs to grind at what level or simply come back here and ask. I a lot of people do it.


    About instances...
    Twilight Temple - At lvl63 (when you get your new pet heal) you should be able to solo TT1-1 Solo Mode with any tank pet (Glacial Walker, Crystalline Magmite, Shaodu Cub). It won't take long and if you're lucky you can get a couple of good drops. They are not are profitable as they used to be but it's still a way to make money.

    FBs - These are not very profitable in my opinion except if you're farming stamps for reputation. Because of your level you'll most likely get bad drops or no drops at all and running through the whole cave (FB39, FB51) takes way too much time when you are alone. I'd only recommend it when there's a double drop event.


    Rare pets?
    No. Because in order to make a real profit from them you should go for the most demanded rare pets (lvl20 cub, lvl60 kowlin, lvl80 bear) and you also need to be able to tame them often/regularly. For that you need -channeling gear otherwise your chances will be extremely low since usually there is at least one Venomancer with -channeling gear. That gear takes time to buy/find/build. Except if you feel like you can invest in it.



    @Yidra. Try to find another Venomancer around your level. When I did my Tideborn chain quest I only had a Shaodu Cub but I could do it with another Venomancer. Two Venomancers healing one pet.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Yindra, at 80 you can solo 39 and all but Wyvern in 51 without a herc, also 59 with an eldergoth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Its time for me to make an alt to farm up some coin to support my main character and I'm hoping a veno will be able to do just that.
    Is it possible for a veno to farm dungeons effectively w/o a herc?
    you are at the lvl where you can start aoe on your bm. 7x for dreamweaver port (teleport on island) or just outside of dreamweaver port, low 8x at plain of farewells or near immolation camp. i know old school players who got their coins and xp just aoeing all day long from 7x-8x above. 9x is just better, there are more option on the open map and also in unlocked maps like 3rd map (valley of the scarred).

    sure, a veno is fine for single target mobs at any lvl. you can get DQ items and crafting mats since low lvl with veno and with minimal costs but time. about fb's, lets say that you cant do all bosses without hercule. some bosses in fb69, some in fb89 and all fb99 bosses comes in mind, rest can be done by a free pet... uh maybe wyvern in fb51 cant be done either at lower lvls and fb59 with just ranged pet like marksman but at lvl 7x and above. the amount of time spending soloing higher fb's is a lot, an assasin at my lvl with similar equipment can skip all mobs and go directly to bosses and can actually solo them and much faster. sure, not all the books/molds dropped worth much so i dont think they get more coins from bosses than what they invested in event pots and possibly charm
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    The need for soloing is greatly exaggerated but here's an idea, you don't always have to tank with a pet. Qingzi you can easily tank yourself if you keep 'im at range, same as 59 bosses. You could probably solo them at the BH level range with a charm, hp regen apos, pots and genie heal... It's probably not worth it for anything other than bragging rights however, given the cost. And Qingzi i had previously thought you could handle with a pet except so many reports have claimed otherwise i'm starting to doubt this myself (i leveled mostly through quests at that range so i'm not entirely sure whether i could do it or not, although i distinctly remember my Shaodu tanking it i may have been at the next level range when i did) although 39 i'm pretty certain regular pets can handle. This would make Wyvern the only boss that can't be soloed up until 69, and even hercs can't handle Pole. Yea, i know you can interrupt his debuff but since you would only have one genie to rely on i think it's safe to say it can't be soloed at any rate...

    Of course in most scenarios, and giving thought to practical considerations, only an herc can handle Wyvern and 59 bosses. Perhaps only an herc can handle Qingzi too, i'm not entirely sure...

    Regardless of which pet you use however, veno is still the best solo class, the cheapest in terms of costs and the more effective at 1 on 1 grinding. Whether grinding is still worth it as a way of making coin remains an open question, although since instance farming is also nerfed and only 90+ seem to be able to do it for profit anymore (might be an exception for a couple of TT runs for 8x herc'ed venos) and since every conceivable merchanting niche seems to now be ocupied by a high level with the ability to outcompete newcomers, grinding seems to be the only option left for generating any sort of in game income. And given the better ability of classes like BM to AoE grind at higher levels i'm not sure making a veno alt is the best choice for money making. A high level Cleric or Barb has a good chance of making what few farming squads are still worth it so ironically enough this may make for far better choices given the level ranges they have more difficulty with you can manage with relatively modest amounts of zhen.

    Not saying this is all bad, with everyone and their mom making a veno alt perhaps it is time for the class to be left in the hands of only those who care to learn how to play it...
  • Zairi - Dreamweaver
    Zairi - Dreamweaver Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I soloed Qingzi at 52 with a lv 50 Beetle King. I killed it with my Beetle tanking when i was 46 with a second Veno, we both just glued ourselfs to the Pet heal button. I guess Herc can do it with only one Veno healing it tho.
    I was LA Veno at that time and had only p.att rings.
    At arround 60-62 i tried 39 the first time with GW and again LA with p att rings and shards in my weapon my Glacial Waker did just fine only Farrens debuff which greatly increases channel was annoying. Haveing tough ready for that helps.
    Herclessness doesnt make you unable to solo.b:chuckle
    Ah did i mention i wore 0 -channel gear...
    Since DQ prices dropped so much its not the fastest money grinder its ok tho. TT... i dunno i think i try i was to busy leveling my Pets till now. b:laugh
    Farming fbs for money was always very uneffective when i did it tho, its slow, drops can vary alot from 200k profit to 10k while it took like 1h+. So i just quitted doing that very fast. Im not sure if it would speed up so much by beeing more m.att focused and a Herc that it becomes profitable.
    Wiz cant solo TT but doesnt need to buy Pet Skills so for DQ grind my Wiz with self made mp regen meds is almost more effective. b:shocked
    In higher levels the mats for those are harder to get and farming them becomes quite a time eater so i guess point for Veno, i dont need those as Veno.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    The need for soloing is greatly exaggerated but here's an idea, you don't always have to tank with a pet. Qingzi you can easily tank yourself if you keep 'im at range, same as 59 bosses. You could probably solo them at the BH level range with a charm, hp regen apos, pots and genie heal... It's probably not worth it for anything other than bragging rights however, given the cost. And Qingzi i had previously thought you could handle with a pet except so many reports have claimed otherwise i'm starting to doubt this myself (i leveled mostly through quests at that range so i'm not entirely sure whether i could do it or not, although i distinctly remember my Shaodu tanking it i may have been at the next level range when i did) although 39 i'm pretty certain regular pets can handle. This would make Wyvern the only boss that can't be soloed up until 69, and even hercs can't handle Pole. Yea, i know you can interrupt his debuff but since you would only have one genie to rely on i think it's safe to say it can't be soloed at any rate...

    about soloing stuff by yourself, without pet, i could do that better on my wizard. Qingzi -> earth shield and self heal/charm could be done at some low lvls. now my wiz is 9x, cant test it anymore but with minimal self heal can solo tank much more than my veno can do without pet but harder on wood or metal bosses. sure i have more repairs but far less than melee tanks. veno has minimal repairs.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I do not intend to offend you Yindra, but you can actually solo FB29 at lvl 45+ even though it is quite/extremely hard.

    i'll say. i tried it at level 52, and didn't get much anywhere.

    granted, my eldergoth did manage to hold Qingzi at bay --- his HP bar was playing ping-pong with my pet heals, but he was surviving, and i could even throw an occasional amp damage at the boss now and then --- but i had no time for dealing damage, and it quickly became obvious i'd be there all night at that rate. gave up and ran with the boss still at roughly 90% health or so.

    my guildmates then told me Qingzi hits harder the less HP he's got left. if that is so (and i have no reason to think they're wrong about it) then i doubt my eldergoth could have survived to kill him, i had enough trouble as it was.

    my glacial walker lived 20 seconds or so, then i had to fox and run for it. no hope of keeping it alive against Qingzi's melee damage. possibly this boss can be soloed by a veno at level 45, but i have no clue how they'd go about it, and i'd be in awe of their skills to see it done.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • MaouHime - Raging Tide
    MaouHime - Raging Tide Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Well I am lvl 51 and I did him with my Eldergoth lvl 46 and about the HP Bar playing ping pong, sadly, but it is true, but by no means does he hit harder the lower hp he has.

    I agree tot the fact that he is quite hard, however by no means does it take that long to kill him, at least not for me I roughly need about 10 mins.

    If you teach him Tough you can actually throw in 2-4 spells before you will need to heal him again, at least that is what I do. But only after my Eldergoth dealt enough dmg so that I won't take aggro. However, the CD of Pet Heal is 1.5 secs and thats enough to throw in an Ironwood or Venomous.

    And Indeed My walker does not stand even the slightest chance there... only a few seconds and he is dead b:surrender
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    about soloing stuff by yourself, without pet, i could do that better on my wizard. Qingzi -> earth shield and self heal/charm could be done at some low lvls. now my wiz is 9x, cant test it anymore but with minimal self heal can solo tank much more than my veno can do without pet but harder on wood or metal bosses. sure i have more repairs but far less than melee tanks. veno has minimal repairs.

    Oh yes, we all know every veno keeps a same level Wizard alt. WHich must come incredibly handy when you want your veno to get the xp from a BH run...
  • Zairi - Dreamweaver
    Zairi - Dreamweaver Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Uh weird im pretty sure my Beetle was not above 52 since i did Qingzi pre doing Tideborn quests and i was 52 then.b:puzzled

    Yes it took a while, yes my Beetle died once. I had to revive and resummon it, used a Second Wind, a Mantou and survived with like 200 hp.
    Of corse it took a while...a felt decade. On my first try i died. Yes my Pets HP bar jumps arround but why should it be easy for a Veno if its imposible for others?

    Im confused...if my Beetle could do it Walker should be able too.

    Maybe:
    I wasnt able to do it pre finding out that pressing the Pet Heal Button once, wait for skill cd, press again was the mistake i did. I lag quite a bit and that 1 sec of lag can kill your Pet. If you just keep the button pressed it will automatically cast Pet Heal again asap after cd is down. For me this buys me 0.5-1sec every heal. If you already do that ...b:surrender
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I'd second the suggestion about looking into AOE grinding with your BM. They're pretty effective at making money via grinding once they're able to do that. You'll probably need a charms for heals and hp, but you can get those free now with the Mon/Tue events.

    Soloing low- and mid-level instances used to be OK for making money until they added BH. With BH, lots of people started doing those instances causing the prices on the molds to plummet. With a couple exceptions, I think you'd be better off just doing regular AOE grinding with your BM.

    The first exception is Qingzi in FB29. He's the BH boss from 40-49. At those levels, a single day's stacked BH + CS will level you, so people don't spend much time in the level range where they get BH29. His mold drops are relatively rare too. I have an army of L46-49 alts parked at that level range doing BH29 to generate spirit so I can get ahead on some skills, and dumping exp into genies. The cleric is actually able to solo Qingzi (more easily and quickly than a veno I might add), so the drop rate is only slightly nerfed. But he's only coughed up a handful of molds. Most of them still sell for 1+ mil due to their rarity.

    The second is Rankar in FB51. He didn't become a BH boss until they made 3 BHs a day, and he wanders on a 22 minute circuit so you couldn't just drop by and kill him as you were passing by. His mold drops are also rare. With the addition of 3xBH, the demon panther ring and gale dual hammer molds have dropped from 1+ mil to about a half mil. But the lion spirit helmet still commands 2-3 mil prices. Basically it's one of the best helmets that light armor users can wear at level 75+ without putting extra points into str, so there's high demand for it. Rankar is best soloed with a veno, but because of his wandering path it will be painful trying to farm him.

    If you insist on using a low level alt to do outdoors grinding, I'd go with a level 30 cleric. When I ran tests at level 30, the cleric and veno (with same equipment) both had about a net 150k per hour grind rate at Silver Pool (antelopes, spiders, magmites). The cleric needed pots to regen mana, but killed faster than the veno and the extra money was enough to pay for the pots. They hay and crafting mats you can still sell via cat shop for pretty good coin, and you can even sell the DQs via cat shop since they're needed for the banker quest. It's pretty easy, if a bit boring.

    But my veno and cleric friends in the 90s could easily hit 300k per hour grinding outdoors. I would imagine an AOE BM would be about the same, so I'm not sure why you'd want to make a low level alt to make money.
    Well I am lvl 51 and I did him with my Eldergoth lvl 46 and about the HP Bar playing ping pong, sadly, but it is true, but by no means does he hit harder the lower hp he has.
    He doesn't hit harder, but he will randomly speed up his attacks. If your heals are just barely keeping your pet alive, you won't be able to keep up when he speeds up.
    Im confused...if my Beetle could do it Walker should be able too.
    Some of the beetles have decent mdef, which is what you need against Qingzi, not pdef. The magmites have terrible mdef, the walker is a bit better but it's still pretty low. The best class for solo tanking Qingzi is actually a cleric. Mine soloed him easily the first time she tried at 42. Probably could've done it in the 30s too.
  • nilarin
    nilarin Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I don't have a herc yet (still saving up). My main pet is a crystalline magmite (not the best I know). Nevertheless, it is still possible to use it quite effectively in a lot of places. At lvl 85 and with Tough and threaten use, plus around -15% chan it can tank wyvern in BH51. General feng was too tricky last time I tried, but that was around lvl 82. Gathering mats for crafting probably produces faster rate of cash gain than DQ farming if you can sell them (or the items you make from them). If you save up a few million in gold, you can start to make use of the AH for trading by buying underpriced items and selling at market price. Eventually this is by far the fastest way to get cash (and available to any character type).
  • Zairi - Dreamweaver
    Zairi - Dreamweaver Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Uh...i know silly question but: Unlike other magic mobs Qingzis attacks still count as magic even your in close range? XD
    I just wonder because i never noticed its casting animation as soon as either my pet or i tanked him at melee range. So i suggested hes slapping instead of throwing rocks at me or my pet.b:sweat

    Would explain why this one guy went nuts because my beetle succesfully tanked it...after he told me the whole run my beetle sucks and cant tank Qingzi.
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    No, Qingzi melees at close range.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    But my veno and cleric friends in the 90s could easily hit 300k per hour grinding outdoors. I would imagine an AOE BM would be about the same, so I'm not sure why you'd want to make a low level alt to make money.
    nothing can beat bm's at solo aoe, HA with lots of aoe skill plus plenty of aoe spots from 80 up to 100+. reminds me of bm's 2-3 years ago when some good bm's used to be the highest lvl and also had plenty of DQ/mats drops to sell

    for OP, i couldnt find a bm video but here is the spot you can start at lower lvl
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc7jLMTXfHk
    with bm is just plain better, much more mobs to lure and much more aoe skills plus much better defenses