Wizard Build

Eclerys - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hi, I'm kind of new in this game so I'm looking for some advice about my build.
I want a wizard that doesn't die too quickly, since I know it is nearly impossible to stop being one of the weakest (physically speaking) class in the game.
The build that I want to try out is this:
Each 2 levels:
+6 MAG
+3 VIT
+1 STR

I'm not sure how it will be in later levels, I just want to know what other people thinks about this. Thanks for your time.

a full vit build on a wiz is counter productive. It works on clerics/venos etc because they can still be useful w/o a ton of matk (cleric can heal/buff just fine w/o pure int, venos can debuff and still do decent damage if you include the pet).. but a wiz is only useful for DD. Adding some vit is ok if you need it to take a hit or two, but dont go overboard. I personally would not add more than 53 vit, but it is rly up 2 u.

If you stay pure vit at endgame, unless your wep is aamazing.. you will basically be ignored in pvp because you cant do enough damage to kill anything, and that 1500 hp isnt rly going to save you when you finally are targetted.

I capped at 35 vit, and a few weeks ago started the vit out to magic anyway.

Being squishy isn't a bad thing for pve, as it'll give you better survivability tactics. Learning how to kite Is important. It's better to not get hit than to be able to take one.

I would suggest:
1 str
2 vit
7 mag per two levels, till about level 30. Then 1 str 9 mag.

Getting gear with nice hp additions will help more than vit, and also sharing with whatever grade citrine and garnets and refining even a little will help.

If you have any other questions, or want to discuss anything. Pm me In game.

I personally did the Light Armor build, which is 1 Str, 1 Dex, and 3 Mag per level following Pandora's guide. I'm by far happy with this choice because when I look at Mag mages doing the same quests as me, they get owned fast, while I survive. Not to mention I can take 4 hits from a 65+ Blademaster at 680 HP before I die. b:thanks

I was questing outside of South Archosaur with 1 Assassin, 2 Psychics, a arcane robe Wizard. and 1 Cleric. Out comes this level 65+ Pk'er, we all had relatively full HP. The Assassin, the other Wizard, and the Psychics were dead in one to two hits, Cleric took a few hits before he fell, I started running he hit me 3 times but my buffs HP regeneration saved me from a fourth range hit he flung at me, and woooooot I live to tell the tale!

I have no regrets of going the Light Armor build what-so-ever. I still kill as fast as a Mag mage, but I get to equip Light Armor for protection and still have the choice to wear Arcane Armor if I fight a magical being. b:victory

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

LA has less survivability than an arcane vit build, with the same damage.

Are you counting LA unrefined, refined to +2? +4? You don't think that matters? You really can't speak about "survivability" without considering that. LA doesn't refine a ton better than AA, but 4 pieces at +4 you can't say the hp difference is negligible to a vit mage.

And same damage including crits or not including crits? The biggest thing I miss about LA mage was seeing a crit every 4-6 hits (alot more than the 8% would seem to call for, but its true). Vit mages don't get that either and thats half the fun.

Also, you know that LA wizzies can wear the heavy helms that give a ton more hp than arcane helms. Find ones with "-15% requirement" and refine that cap to +4 and talk to me about survivability vs a vit mage. I think I had one in my 80's that gave me something like 450 hp just from the cap with like 3 flawless citrines. That = survivability.

And you don't have to worry about trying to balance garnets in this and citrines in that. Shard everything citrines. The end.

Not saying a vit mage is FAR inferior to a LA mage. I'm sure they do fine as well. And at lower levels (0-60) they may even do better, idk. But starting with the LA molds you get in 60s and 70s through 90, its hard to argue that LA mage isn't at least as good as 50 points in vit. And I think a good bit better.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Side note, full tt90 green is beyond stupid. The only piece that you really need is the pants, the chest is ok... and the wrists/boots SUCK. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Not if you ever want to get the tt99 gold or nirvana it. Otherwise I agree.

His thread was asking about builds in general, and in general most (I think it still fair to say) go with the full TT90 green set through most if not all of their 90s.

In terms of gear through the 90s (keeping in mind whether you intend to get tt99/nirvana later in which case you will need a full tt90 set sooner or later):

-TT90 green Boots suck - might as well just get tt80 gold boots and use them till you get dancing sparkle/good OHT boots/tt99 or something else (is there anything else?)

-tt90 gold sleeves are good, but tt90 green kinda lame.

-Chest is ok (not sure what is better?), but on servers where TT mats are expensive the 88 mold robe is 98% the same and usually ALOT cheaper (even refines the same)

-The tt90 green pants are a must have.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you counting LA unrefined, refined to +2? +4? You don't think that matters? You really can't speak about "survivability" without considering that. LA doesn't refine a ton better than AA, but 4 pieces at +4 you can't say the hp difference is negligible to a vit mage.

And same damage including crits or not including crits? The biggest thing I miss about LA mage was seeing a crit every 4-6 hits (alot more than the 8% would seem to call for, but its true). Vit mages don't get that either and thats half the fun.

Also, you know that LA wizzies can wear the heavy helms that give a ton more hp than arcane helms. Find ones with "-15% requirement" and refine that cap to +4 and talk to me about survivability vs a vit mage. I think I had one in my 80's that gave me something like 450 hp just from the cap with like 3 flawless citrines. That = survivability.

And you don't have to worry about trying to balance garnets in this and citrines in that. Shard everything citrines. The end.

Not saying a vit mage is FAR inferior to a LA mage. I'm sure they do fine as well. And at lower levels (0-60) they may even do better, idk. But starting with the LA molds you get in 60s and 70s through 90, its hard to argue that LA mage isn't at least as good as 50 points in vit. And I think a good bit better.



Not if you ever want to get the tt99 gold or nirvana it. Otherwise I agree.

His thread was asking about builds in general, and in general most (I think it still fair to say) go with the full TT90 green set through most if not all of their 90s.

In terms of gear through the 90s (keeping in mind whether you intend to get tt99/nirvana later in which case you will need a full tt90 set sooner or later):

-TT90 green Boots suck - might as well just get tt80 gold boots and use them till you get dancing sparkle/good OHT boots/tt99 or something else (is there anything else?)

-tt90 gold sleeves are good, but tt90 green kinda lame.

-Chest is ok (not sure what is better?), but on servers where TT mats are expensive the 88 mold robe is 98% the same and usually ALOT cheaper (even refines the same)

-The tt90 green pants are a must have.

I think it'd be easier to settle this LA vs arcane vit with a build. You go ahead and make a pwcalc of a LA mage, I'll make my own of a vit mage for the same cost, lets just see how it goes

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I think it'd be easier to settle this LA vs arcane vit with a build. You go ahead and make a pwcalc of a LA mage, I'll make my own of a vit mage for the same cost, lets just see how it goes

I'm guessing by that you mean you don't think the answers to the questions matter.

I'll post a build this weekend. The builds alone won't take into consideration crits, of course, or helms with -15% requirement (since I don't think those show on pwcalc), not to mention the -15% requirement for 3* LA pieces (which are gold to a LA wiz, since they significantly reduce the magic attack penalty that LA wizards suffer vs arcane). So I don't really agree that its the "easier" way to settle anything.

Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »

LA is by far the most expensive build.

I can't say for sure as I've never really compared cost. If you are counting the reset note when you hit level 90, i guess maybe. I do know that more than one on this forum has said that LA build is cheaper than AA build, at least while leveling. I don't know how a vit build would be any different.

In the meantime, you certainly save on hp pots, charms, GA's, experience loss, dropped items, etc. if the LA mage is better able to survive, which (notwithstanding the opinions of a few) I think most would agree is absolutely true.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

LA Wiz

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fa1158566f7afb07



Note: you have to add 502 HP for the helm. I have assumed the helm has -15% requirement, which is not that difficult to find.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b31f65bc52c8ed70

Requirement -15% added.
I would prefer a vit build yet. Curious about Adroit's reply since I'm not an expert about equipments.

nonono, you make the LA mage, I get to make the arcane vit mage (just edited your arcane build) b:chuckle

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7dde7a8e8d1fb145

Before I continue, realize I don't exactly agree with this gear/shard choice, but I'm using this to be as close as possible to your build (same price) and remove any question that arcane vit that is built properly has more survivability than an equally geared LA mage.

So a few things to note, you cannot lower dex to below 5, so I put that back up to 5 on my build.
LA mages really can't afford to go both pdef, mdef would be so low its not even funny. Nevertheless, I took on the challenge to get more hp/mdef AND pdef as arcane.

Changed the weapon to a wep that is more suitable for an arcane class.
Changed the cape, as tauren chieftain is stupid for any arcane class.
Added blue stats to the helm, as nobody is going to +4 and 4 socket an npc helm.
Played with the shards/stats to achieve more pdef/hp than the LA build (again would not be my first choice, but it helps prove my point).

So what it comes down to.
Hp is relatively close between the builds (4075 arcane vs 3872 LA)
Pdef is relatively close (3321 arcane and 3171 LA.. both unbuffed)
Mdef is significantly higher for arcane (5885 arcane vs 4000 LA)
Matk is the essentially the same (both have exactly 282 mag after gear bonuses)
Crit is higher for LA (6% arcane vs 9% LA)

If you'd like to make a more reasonable LA build that has some respectable mdef and reasonable refines for 8x, feel free and I'll adjust my build accordingly. Otherwise, I can safely say vit arcane build has more survivability than LA.

Proski - Archosaur wrote: »

if you are trying to squeeze every stat out for demonstrative purposes, sure you can always make aa/vit look better because of the add ons and whatnot..

but for the average person who is playing their first character on that server, they're not going to 4 socket everything and flawless in it all while +4ing any gear before 90. also yaksa is a great weapon but again nobody would seriously consider getting it as their first wiz on that server when you're just going to get a wheel of denied fate anyway. before 90 if you are trying to take your arcane build and get it as close to an LA as you can for arguments sake you're just wasting time and money, LA became a popular build at one point in time because it was a cheap alternative for those that couldn't refine their arcane well enough or waste time hunting for great add ons. and again, that almost always pertains to peoples first character on that server being a wizard


now if you already have a 9x+ char and its easy for you to finance a wiz alt, i'd say stick to pure aa until 90 (so easy to hit it anyway nowadays)

woah, lets take a step back here.

I used the +4 4socket because that is what BLOODMYSTIC used for his build. It was a challenge to show which build was better at some price (that he set). Feel free to make your own pwcalc with what you think is reasonable, and I'll match the refines/shards etc to show that arcane vit build will pretty much always have better survivability than LA.. no matter what price range we are in.

The Yaksa is not out of the question at all, when I was lvling up, I actually farmed up to my yaksa, bought a WoDF for my 9x wep, and then used the yaksa to decompose into 9x wep that you use for the inferno. I then sold the WoDF after I had my 99 wep. Yaksa is not particularly expensive or hard to farm, don't see why this was a concern at all.

Lost city is a fairly old server, there are tons of decent 2*/3* gear in the AH for cheap.. I personally use just gear with 3 good stats and 2sockets or more for my characters, but I figured someone would give me **** and tell me that lowbie gear with 3 decent stats was unreasonable, so I just went for 2 stats.. which imo is easily obtainable.

I also stated that this little build challenge was NOT what I'd use for my own character. I would personally have more hp and less pdef, and probably more pts in magic instead of vit because damage is important for a mage. However, this was more of a way to show those going LA that there is a better alternative for survivability if that's what they want. Most new wizards don't realize that arcane has higher potential survivability than LA, and that there are more options than just pure int vs LA. I'd guess most would choose some middle ground, where they have more survivability than pure int and more damage than LA, but not when all these high lvl mages are advising not to go for a vit build.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

LA Wiz

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b31f65bc52c8ed70

3872 HP
3171 Pdef
4000 Mag Def
4539 Mag Attack
9% Crit %


AA Wiz with +50 vit

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7dde7a8e8d1fb145

4075 HP
3321 Pdef
5885 Mag Def
3985 Mag Attack
6% Crit %

I guess my initial thought is I am not sure what to say. You've managed to make a vit mage have less magic attack than a LA wiz. That is the primary criticism of LA wizards and you made your vit mage even worse in that regard. Normally the rebuttal for a LA wiz is that they have higher crit rates to make up for some of the damage deficiency, but your build loses that argument as well.

I can admit to a certain extent that this version of a vit mage will survive at least as well as a LA mage, assuming you don't have to kill anything to stay alive.

Also, finding items with 2x +70 hp adds is not that common. Could be a difference between servers, but are you saying that I will find this gear (or similar) in your ah if I log onto LC now?

Because I just did. There wasn't one lvl 77 cape, let alone one with those stats, and the only *** cap had evasion +46 and endurance +50%. That's the reason I picked stuff like the tt80 armor and tauran cape. At least you know you CAN get them fairly easily. A build dependent on the add on "slot machine" that pwi uses to pick attributes for gear isn't exactly reliable.

Bascially, as I said before, I don't think they are horribly different, or that one is FAR better than the other. But even further weakening magic attack beyond what a LA mage suffers (without the added crit) seems to me to be trying to force a square peg in a round hole. For that reason, I wouldn't ever do vit mage when LA mage will get it done. The fact that your build is not dependent on raw luck in terms of add ons to gear? Well, that's just another reason I would choose LA over vit.

Both builds have the exact same points in magic.. if you put the same weapon on both chars they have the exact same magic atk. But as I've said several times, this is not my choice for a character. Out of matk/hp/pdef/mdef, you ignored mdef, and to prove my point I just put more vit in than would really make sense.

What I'm trying to show is that arcane vit is the better build. I've talked to tons of lowbie wizards that are pure int and want more survivability, and think that the only way to get it is to go LA. When I tell them to add vit, I've heard them say that adding vit is pointless, and its better to just go LA (because high lvl mages tell them vit is terrible). This exercise is to show that if you are really only worried about survivability, you go arcane with all your extra points in vit.. and if you want damage you go are in arcane will all the extra points in mag. This makes the armor choice very easy for a new mage, and then I recommend splitting the extra points between vit and mag at so they can find some middle ground between damage and survivability.

The ONLY advantage to LA is the extra crit, and if you are more worried about crit than damage/survivability, you may want to go roll an archer or sin (where dex points help their crit and damage).

edit: and oh, there are plenty of good helms in AH atm, and most people don't leave stuff in AH 24/7.. put it in one day, if it doesn't sell they try again the next week etc. Finding a cape by the time you are lvl 77 really shouldn't be a problem if you check the AH regularly. Or if you have some decent friends, I know alot of people that stockpile lowbie gear so they can gear their alts as they lvl. When I was lvling my cleric, I had pretty good gear just by borrowing from a few of my friends.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A. Out of matk/hp/pdef/mdef, you ignored mdef.

B. I've talked to tons of lowbie wizards that are pure int and want more survivability, and think that the only way to get it is to go LA. When I tell them to add vit, I've heard them say that adding vit is pointless, and its better to just go LA (because high lvl mages tell them vit is terrible).

C. This exercise is to show that if you are really only worried about survivability, you go arcane with all your extra points in vit.. and if you want damage you go are in arcane will all the extra points in mag.

D. The ONLY advantage to LA is the extra crit, and if you are more worried about crit than damage/survivability, you may want to go roll an archer or sin (where dex points help their crit and damage).

E. Finding a cape by the time you are lvl 77 really shouldn't be a problem if you check the AH regularly. Or if you have some decent friends, I know alot of people that stockpile lowbie gear so they can gear their alts as they lvl. When I was lvling my cleric, I had pretty good gear just by borrowing from a few of my friends.

A. And I said why. For PvE you can find a skill to increase that resistance. And for others, you often have a chioce to use the opposite element to attack so that more damage would mean less hits and less need for mdef (MT mobs for example, you don't have a MT shield, but you can blast them with fire for the bonus damage to kill them faster).

In PvP, classes generally hit mages with physical attacks. Plus, you have the option of carrying elemental ornaments (neck/belt) to increase magic defense for certain situations when needed.

Not saying Mdef is completely unimportant, just (1) that it is (in my view) by far the least important and (2) can be fairly compensated for in 80% of the situations out there.

B. Vit isn't "terrible", a terrible choice maybe when you can go LA. Vit will work. LA (IMO) will work better.

C. When I see a wiz say that they want more survivability, I don't read that as "they are only concerned with survivability". If that is the case, by all means put all your points in vit. I take it to mean they want an alternative to a pure build to give them more survivability. To my mind, that is LA because you get the least penalty to damage (when adding in higher crit rate) while getting the pdef that wizzies need (far more than mdef) to survive.

D. LA wizzies will tell you, immediately after switching to LA, the difference in crit is VERY noticable. And my advice to every wizard that wants to pk at all is to do just that - go roll an archer.

E. Well, I don't play LC so I won't pretend to know the market there. But other people have confirmed it, so I'll just let the original poster decide based on his server.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A. PvE is nonfactor.. you can complete 99% of PvE in this game w/o any armor on. Oh, and you are joking about switching gear in pvp right?

C. as said in A.

D. I was LA till 89. It sucked.

E. . . . unless you are going from 1-80 in a day.. you will have plenty of time to look ahead for your gear.

A. 90% of the people that ask the question of the OP are not doing PvP. The original poster here was level 15. So to say that PvE is a non-factor (particularly to these people) is just silly. It is all that they do, in fact. And obviously they can't do it without armor, or they wouldn't be asking the question in the first place. I know you are thinking all they have to do is FoW and WotP mobs, but hello! They don't have those skills yet. In fact, they don't have 50 points to even put into vit yet.

And no, im not joking at all. Lots of people do it. If you are 1 vs 1 a magic class, switch them. If group vs group, you have to decide but I wouldn't. Again, more often than not the physical attacks are going to be used on you in group pk situations because they expect you to have low pdef.


C. ^

D. Light armor for wiz does START to suck in the 80s (I think I have already said that). In fact, on one of these posts I told someone that was already like lvl 76 or something to NOT do LA as they already did most of the hard work as arcane. Up until 80, LA is better. In your 80's, I think you can be the judge as to whether to reset @ 80, @ 85 or @ 90 to arcane.

Sorry you didn't like LA. But I guess thanks for admitting you didn't really level a vit mage. I did all 3. I played pure from 1-25, vit from 25-60 and LA from 60-90 on sanctuary. I also played LA from 0-88 on arch server (I might have switched a little earlier, but I got cloudcharger at like level 60 so I had plenty of pdef to make the change pre-90).

Its easy to tell others to play vit over LA when you yourself got the benefit of light armor to level.

E. Thats fine, but thats not what you said originally.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Lost city is a fairly old server, there are tons of decent 2*/3* gear in the AH for cheap..

You didn't just say there were good items, you said "TONS" of good items. When I looked, there wasn't even a single lvl 77 cape with crappy stats, let alone one with good ones. Something confirmed by someone else:

Adea - Lost City wrote: »

I check the auction house constantly a few times everyday to see if there are any good items . . . . [goes on to say all the AA items he finds are ****]

Its probably all those AA clerics and AA venos grabbing them up.

If you want to now change your argument (from "tons in AH" to "your fail if you can't farm the gear yourself or watch the ah for lvl 7x gear while you level from 15-70") since your original position has been effectively refuted, you have my permission to do so. Just don't act like you aren't doing precisely that, however.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Your advice is horrible . . . .

Given that this has gotten to be generating more heat than light at this point (in A I am explaining why PvE isn't irrelevant to a lvl 15 mage, in D I'm repeating myself and stating the somewhat obvious, and in E I am reminding someone what they originally said), this will be my last post here unless there is something absolutely crazy put up.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3e66ad7fbf0d28ca

b:avoid most op 80 wiz ever

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

D. I very recently lvl'd up a full vit cleric, so I know what its like to lvl up as LA and as arcane vit. So ya, it's very easy for me to try both and know which is better.
*

Ah, you did it. I didn't want to post here again, but you went and said something so terribly silly I just had to reply.

Clerics and wizzies are entirely different.

Cleric's have self buffs, self heals, and do not have the same flexibility to shard all citrines as wizzies do (they need at least 50/50 garnets I believe, but no expert here).

Don't clerics get a higher return on vit than a wizard does? I don't play clerics, I have no idea. If they do, thats yet another reason why clerics might use vit more than a wizard.

I have cleric friends that say the NEVER die doing quests, etc. All they need to do is stack ironheart and tank whatever hits they need to.

They also have vastly different roles in pve and pvp, but going into how those difference impact the need for pdef, mdef, mattck, etc, etc, etc, is well beyond the scope of what I am prepared to do here.