Most Epic Gear Fails!

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

No, you are completely wrong...

I'm just telling you what I've seen that is in the actual game files of the non-PWI version that I was experimenting with.

If your experiences tell you something different, that's fine, but there's a surplus of anecdotal evidence and a shortage of hard-facts when it comes to refining. The best source of hard-facts that I'm aware of at the moment are the older non-PWI versions of the game that can be tested and proven with 100% certainty that the refining odds never change except for current refining level and refining aids used.

The only other source of hard-facts that I'm aware of are the mountains of data collected by fellow PWI forum-posters here at PWI and posted in the "Refining for Cheap" thread. That data has the advantage of being taken from PWI, and although limited it seems to support the conclusions drawn from examining the non-PWI game data.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm just telling you what I've seen that is in the actual game files of the non-PWI version that I was experimenting with.

Ok, if you are just telling the results of your test, then next time instead of saying "nope and nope" just say: "Well, according to tests I have made, refining at officers its the same as doing it in archosaur and low level items refine as good as a nirvana piece etc,..."

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

No, you are completely wrong.

(Not directed at you specifically.) I really wish that when people say stuff like this, they would back it up with how they "know" that things work a certain way. That way we can judge how credible their assertion is. Warren gave a pretty thorough description of what he did to come to the conclusion he's offering. I'm glad to see Azura give an accounting of how she reached her conclusion. Of the two, I'd pick Warren's methodology as much more rigorous and thus more likely to be accurate.

A while ago I got a level 0 bow "for test" to +4 using only 8 mirages, and when I tried with the grade 9 magic sword (HH80) it didn't have that luck. A guildie got to +7 a rank 4 cleric top (i think thats grade 8) using 7 mirages. On the other hand I always heard people trying to refine nirvana saying that it was hard to do. So from my own expirence and from other's expirence I can say that low level items have better change for refining, but of course this has less benefit.

The problem with anecdotal evidence is that you generally only hear about the outliers - the unusual events - not the average ones. It's the average ones which tell you the true trend, not the outliers. The entire PWI community contributed data to a rather extensive thread on this topic, which I helped organize and determine the range of statistically likely True percentages within a 95% confidence interval.

The percentages Warren found independently with a non-PWI version of the game matched the data we collected within the 95% confidence interval; most of the data matched to within a 99% confidence interval. I also ran comparisons of the data based on level of the item (when given) and found no trends correlating to level.

Personally, I've had much worse luck refining low-level stuff than level 80+ stuff. For example, I had a fairly easy time getting all my TT90 armor and ornaments to +3 using just mirages (averaged about 25-40 attempts on each). My L89 and L90 weapons I refined to +5 without much trouble too. Consequently, I've tried refining four level 30-52 legendary weapons to +3. I haven't succeeded on a single one of them despite using over 800 mirages (400+ attempts). The level 52 weapon alone has consumed over 450 mirages and never gotten above +2. I call them the cursed gale dual hammers now, and toss a few more mirages at them now and then just to see how many they'll consume before finally reaching +3.

But I still don't consider that a large enough data set to draw any conclusions. I've had a couple pieces of high level gear also give me problems, consuming 100-200 mirages before getting to +3. In contrast, I've had two high level items reach +5 with just 5 mirages, and 3 others get to +5 with fewer than 30 mirages. I'm starting to suspect the refine success rates were nerfed in a recent patch, but am still collecting data (I don't have much left to refine, so there isn't much incentive for me to throw money at testing this right now.)

About the officer not working, you couldn' be more wrong on this. I never got anything to +3 before using an officer. Now I got all my armor to +6 for 1/4 of what it costs doing it with orbs thanks to the officers. Also, if when you use officers you just put an item and click refine until you get the refine you want, then you are doing it wrong.

Please elucidate the rest of us on the "right" way to do it then, so we can test it. Personally, given the shoddy coding in the rest of the game, I'm highly skeptical that the devs would spend the time and effort to code up elaborate "tricks" for getting a higher success rate for refining.

It's much more likely that it's purely random, and all the "tricks" people talk about are superstitions which have arisen to explain away the randomness. Like the superstitions people have come up with about beating the dice, cards, or slots in Las Vegas.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're all giving me a headache.
Back on topic.
kthnx

Amen, brother.

I, uh...had pretty fail equipment when I started my veno. I knew I used magic, but I thought I still needed to use the strongest phys weapon I could get...so I used axes up until...mm, 20, or so? Used LA gear, too. Doubt it was good gear, lol.

Some veno yelled at me about it, so I restated and fixed everything so that I was AA.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

shameless bump

I was -actually- laughing about that earlier, when I was away from the pc. That fail is THAT memorable to me.

im still looking for it, but i had this one too, of a barb arguing his LA/evasion gear and gems made him a far superior tank to that of the traditional barb. wish i could find it.

well that mirage sword(or a dif one similar) came from a HA veno back before stat point gear was so available

Mosz is correct, this should be about 2 years old by now. Back when exp was rare, interval gear and fist users were laughed at, AA/HA venos were rising, no event gear/packs. It wasnt such a stupid idea back then (nevertheless it is still stupid).

edit: well, mosz was somewhat correctly. It was a HA wizzie on sanc.

it may well be a different instance, i know on HT there was was ha veno ~90? that had a mirage(at least+8) back before when there were first lvl 100s on HT

KaiserZr - Sanctuary wrote: »

Back when the game was a more balanced? I definitely remember fist users being laughed at...and those same people who used to do the laughing are using them now... Oh how times have changed...

Every so often we still make fun of those turncoats, and the two worst examples of fist bashing are forever immortalized in my signature. They may change their guides, but their original will never be forgotten

My first character I made playing PWI. My Epic Fail Paladin.


He is complete gear fail.

ZAPATON - Sanctuary wrote: »

There b:chuckleb:bye

OMG YES! I saw that post earlier, best troll attempt I have seen in a LONG time. The forums need more to keep us entertained.