This is hilarious...

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

Hi all, something just happened recently on this forum that was just hilarious. What basically happened was this: I made a thread remarking on the GM's inability to actually do something for the community. It got closed, so I made another thread (slightly nastier :P) about the same topic. Needless to say, that was closed to, with a 7 days ban. That's cool, I got no beef with that. BUT, I, then jumped on an alt account and posted the exact same thread again (claiming that I copied and pasted it from another person b4 it was deleted :P). This is an account I have NEVER posted anything on before. Lo and behold, it was closed and the account was banned...this time PERMANENTLY!!! How could that be??

Well, it turns out that I have cash shopped over ten thousand dollars on my main account, and $0 on my account. I guess PWI was afraid to lose a customer forever, but for 7 days is ok? But for someone who has never cash shopped, a permanent ban can't hurt them? Hehe, if that is the reason (the only one I can think of anyway), you just made my day...thank you for so much caring for the community, not our wallets, LOL!

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · August 2010

/Flamebaitinbeforelocklawlz

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

I stated facts...and a reasonable assumption. If this is true, do you honestly not care about this at all?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Hi all, something just happened recently on this forum that was just hilarious. What basically happened was this: I made a thread remarking on the GM's inability to actually do something for the community. It got closed, so I made another thread (slightly nastier :P) about the same topic. Needless to say, that was closed to, with a 7 days ban. That's cool, I got no beef with that. BUT, I, then jumped on an alt account and posted the exact same thread again (claiming that I copied and pasted it from another person b4 it was deleted :P). This is an account I have NEVER posted anything on before. Lo and behold, it was closed and the account was banned...this time PERMANENTLY!!! How could that be??

Well, it turns out that I have cash shopped over ten thousand dollars on my main account, and $0 on my account. I guess PWI was afraid to lose a customer forever, but for 7 days is ok? But for someone who has never cash shopped, a permanent ban can't hurt them? Hehe, if that is the reason (the only one I can think of anyway), you just made my day...thank you for so much caring for the community, not our wallets, LOL!

so basically your stating you want a perma ban on your main

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

I honestly dont care at this point. Not crying or beef but I really just dont care at all.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Hi all, something just happened recently on this forum that was just hilarious. What basically happened was this: I made a thread remarking on the GM's inability to actually do something for the community. It got closed, so I made another thread (slightly nastier :P) about the same topic. Needless to say, that was closed to, with a 7 days ban. That's cool, I got no beef with that. BUT, I, then jumped on an alt account and posted the exact same thread again (claiming that I copied and pasted it from another person b4 it was deleted :P). This is an account I have NEVER posted anything on before. Lo and behold, it was closed and the account was banned...this time PERMANENTLY!!! How could that be??

Well, it turns out that I have cash shopped over ten thousand dollars on my main account, and $0 on my account. I guess PWI was afraid to lose a customer forever, but for 7 days is ok? But for someone who has never cash shopped, a permanent ban can't hurt them? Hehe, if that is the reason (the only one I can think of anyway), you just made my day...thank you for so much caring for the community, not our wallets, LOL!

So, you call your mom a ***** and she slaps you and grounds you to your room. So you call her on her cell phone and tell her that she was a *****, so you get grounded and she spanks you. So you then call her on the cell phone, disguise your voice, call her a *****, so she grounds you and spanks you and doesn't let you have dessert for a week.

So you're like 10 and really not very bright?

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

but on a separate no one slightly cares about how this was treated...?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

I honestly dont care at this point. Not crying or beef but I really just dont care at all.

you can ask for a self ban you know :P one of sancts heavy cash shoppers did so himself.

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

No, the computer I posted the alt on was on a different IP address (work vs home). I do this kind of things carefully. My point being there was no way that they knew it was me. As I stated, on my alt, I stated that I copied and pasted this from someone that originally posted it, because I felt it had a valid point. As far as the mods are concerned, those were 2 different people.

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

Or MAYBE, your second account got perma banned because it was the same damn post and they checked your IP, then decided to increase the punishment since you weren't backing off.

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

Wow I can't believe this really...you all find nothing wrong with this kind of biased treatment, but instead are all busy picking bones with me...? I'm just a really frustrated player, and you have any idea how saddening it is to see that I'm attacked not by mods, but fellow players? The title is wrong, this isn't hilarious, it's one of the saddest things ever.

Lenore - Harshlands · August 2010

It's possible. My main account got perma-banned on first go because I don't cash shop, whereas a few of my guild members only got suspensions for about the same thing.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Wow I can't believe this really...you all find nothing wrong with this kind of biased treatment, but instead are all busy picking bones with me...? I'm just a really frustrated player, and you have any idea how saddening it is to see that I'm attacked not by mods, but fellow players? The title is wrong, this isn't hilarious, it's one of the saddest things ever.

No, we don't care. It's a more than obvious fact that PWIs stance on frequent cash shoppers are more valuable than non-cash shoppers.

The real point you need to take home is that posting, then re-posting the same damn thing over an over screams "obvious troll is obvious".

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

From my understanding trolls make their post because they are bored and their comments usually serve no real purpose. I wasn't bored. I was upset. I hated seeing this game going the way it is, and I wanted to do anything i can (which isnt much) to try to make it better. Therefore I dont consider it trolling, I just want them to do something about it.

Bogatir - Heavens Tear · August 2010

I have to say if you really spent 10k on this game that you have a serious problem.

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Wow I can't believe this really...you all find nothing wrong with this kind of biased treatment, but instead are all busy picking bones with me...? I'm just a really frustrated player, and you have any idea how saddening it is to see that I'm attacked not by mods, but fellow players? The title is wrong, this isn't hilarious, it's one of the saddest things ever.

Well let's put things in perspective here:

An account made in August 2010 with 8 posts, 7 in this thread, is telling us that he just posted a thread on his alt with the same form of complaining that the forums are already severely flooded with, it got locked so you posted a "nastier" version of the same thread, which they banned you for. At first the thread was locked, but you didn't learn your lesson so they banned you temporarily.

You then went and made an alt account and simply COPY-PASTED that ****, and you're amazed the new account got banned too. You got banned and tried to circumvent the ban with a new account and you were dumb enough to simply post the same thing again, and woah what a miracle: they figured out it was you.

You assure us you changed your IP with your "pr0 internet skillzzzz," but ffs you're an anonymous account with 8 posts and a join date of August 2010.

I fail to see any credibility in your story (we can never be sure if you did a wonderful job of changing your IP, you don't tell us exactly WHAT thread it was that got locked, you don't tell us who you are originally) and I'm sorry but it doesn't take a flippin' genius to figure out that when the EXACT same thread is made by a different guy shortly after the first guy is banned....it's the same guy.

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Well let's put things in perspective here:

An account made in August 2010 with 8 posts, 7 in this thread, is telling us that he just posted a thread on his alt with the same form of complaining that the forums are already severely flooded with, it got locked so you posted a "nastier" version of the same thread, which they banned you for. At first the thread was locked, but you didn't learn your lesson so they banned you temporarily.

You then went and made an alt account and simply COPY-PASTED that ****, and you're amazed the new account got banned too. You got banned and tried to circumvent the ban with a new account and you were dumb enough to simply post the same thing again, and woah what a miracle: they figured out it was you.

You assure us you changed your IP with your "pr0 internet skillzzzz," but ffs you're an anonymous account with 8 posts and a join date of August 2010.

I fail to see any credibility in your story (we can never be sure if you did a wonderful job of changing your IP, you don't tell us exactly WHAT thread it was that got locked, you don't tell us who you are originally) and I'm sorry but it doesn't take a flippin' genius to figure out that when the EXACT same thread is made by a different guy shortly after the first guy is banned....it's the same guy.

Not shortly after, I was at home the first time I made the thread, I waited until the next day at work to repost it. You are right in saying that you can't trust me with my credibility. I totally get it. I don't need you to find my story credible. All I'm asking is, IF my story was true, would you feel that there is a wave of bias floating in the treatment that players receive? This account is not the account that was banned (which I prolly dont have to say but it seems there is some confusion). This is a 3rd account. The alt account that I did go on that was banned permanently was one that was created the same year as my main account. Anyway, what's really bothering me now is people like you, Longknife, who doesn't care about anyone else's feelings and proceeds to bash people just because you feel that you are smarter than them. Even if you are smarter, which I disagree, you have no right to make other people feel bad just for your own sense of superiority. I hate people like you.

Lenore - Harshlands · August 2010

I don't think many people doubt the truth of the bias in the game. Some of the heavy cash shoppers on HT have been banned in-game so many times, it's become a joke about what they can get banned for next. It's not hard to extend bias to the forums...obviously cash shoppers are more important in the devs' eyes so they will always get more lenient punishments. Like I said, there is definitely bias, but it's something most people already know.

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

All I'm asking is, IF my story was true, would you feel that there is a wave of bias floating in the treatment that players receive?

And that's just it: no!

If you're story is true, then to me it says there's a GM or mod who, despite seeing the different IPs, decided to rely on their gut and on common sense and assume you were the same person. Your second account didn't get perma-banned because it doesn't cash shop: your second account got perma banned because they knew it was you and they continued to raise the punishment since you wouldn't back off. I visit another forum with the exact same policy: creating an alt to try and dodge a ban results in a perma ban for the alt. To me, all it says is they skipped a step they should've followed, and that's that they convicted you without proper, SOLID evidence. But hell, do I care? No, cause it doesn't effect me, and obviously they caught the right guy, now didn't they? And having said that, we have no proper, SOLID evidence that they convicted you without checking your IP and realizing you're the same person, so there may not be any mistake in their method here at all.

If we had two completely different people, one a CSer and one a non-CSer, both using the same bug exploit and recieving different punishments: THEN you can cry "bloody murder." What we've got here though is....well it's the same guy. :U

If I were you, I'd be glad your main is still only temp banned and that they didn't go back and perma it. Why not just stop with your little GM witch-hunt and go...y'know, do something else.

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

And that's just it: no!

If you're story is true, then to me it says there's a GM or mod who, despite seeing the different IPs, decided to rely on their gut and on common sense and assume you were the same person. Your second account didn't get perma-banned because it doesn't cash shop: your second account got perma banned because they knew it was you and they continued to raise the punishment since you wouldn't back off. I visit another forum with the exact same policy: creating an alt to try and dodge a ban results in a perma ban for the alt. To me, all it says is they skipped a step they should've followed, and that's that they convicted you without proper, SOLID evidence. But hell, do I care? No, cause it doesn't effect me, and obviously they caught the right guy, now didn't they? And having said that, we have no proper, SOLID evidence that they convicted you without checking your IP and realizing you're the same person, so there may not be any mistake in their method here at all.

If we had two completely different people, one a CSer and one a non-CSer, both using the same bug exploit and recieving different punishments: THEN you can cry "bloody murder." What we've got here though is....well it's the same guy. :U

If I were you, I'd be glad your main is still only temp banned and that they didn't go back and perma it. Why not just stop with your little GM witch-hunt and go...y'know, do something else.

Just one thing. Is an assumption worth a permanent ban? You can never be 100% sure, as a GM, of the author of a post when there are 2 IP addresses. Let's say that on smarts alone, he deducted that there is a 90% chance it's the same person. Is the remaining 10% enough to put an innocent person to ban? Of course in my case he turned out to be right. But what if he wasn't? Arn't we supposed to presume innocence before guilt?

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · August 2010

There 2 student and a teacher . . 1st student is poor (like late to pay school bill) and 2nd student is rich.
The 1st student like to say bad things.
Teacher tell 1st student to not using those words on place like school.
Teacher give 1st student warning if she say that again in school.
The 2nd student also like to say bad things, he just ignore what teacher say.
Second student say those bad things.
Teacher tell 2nd student to not using those worlds on place like school.
Teacher give 2nd student punishment.

Anyway maybe these case was easier if thread starter do the 1st try with free non cash shop account and do the 2nd try with cash shop account . . then we know is they ban the 1st or 2nd . . b:dirty

But in general cash shop give company donation fund while free player don't give anything. (oh oh i know we give the game a community and buyer for gold seller)
Though that doesn't mean when it comes to break rules their punishment will be different.
But meah i don't know the truth . . b:victory

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Just one thing. Is an assumption worth a permanent ban? You can never be 100% sure, as a GM, of the author of a post when there are 2 IP addresses. Let's say that on smarts alone, he deducted that there is a 90% chance it's the same person. Is the remaining 10% enough to put an innocent person to ban? Of course in my case he turned out to be right. But what if he wasn't? Arn't we supposed to presume innocence before guilt?

Yeah but:

1) I don't give a ****. This is a case of the ends justifying the means. You can go ahead and have your philosophical debate about if the ends justifying the means makes it ok, but personally: it's a god damn game. It's a god damn mod on a god damn game who read the EXACT same post a day after the original poster got banned and he followed his gut feeling. Doesn't sound outrageous at all to me. I'll gladly have the philosophical debate about ends justifying the means when a cop illegally enters a thief's home to prove he's a thief, but this is a damn game.

2) You're assuming your new IP worked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a person can tell if an IP is coming from my general area. If I post from home and then go across town and post from work, I think they can still tell the poster is coming from that town/area. I dunno how many times I've gotten some pop up for some cam girl website, and the advertisement has tried to convince me that these girls were from my town OR from a town surrounding my own. How do you think the ads did that? How'd they figure out my town, and how is it that when they get it wrong, they're always very close, using the names of neighboring towns? With the use of my IP. Two VERY similar IPs and the exact same post? Doesn't take a genius...

3) Your story doesn't add up. One moment you say you don't care if you get perma'd, another moment you say you were very careful to use a different location for a different IP.

If I picture myself as you and I get banned after voicing my opinion, and I truly don't want to get banned on my alt (which you heavily imply in that you tried to use a different IP), then I personally....wouldn't post the same damn thing again to begin with, wtf?? Or if I didn't wanna get banned but really REALLY wanted to repost it, I'd at LEAST make the effort to reword it so it wasn't blatantly obvious that it was the same guy. On the other hand, if you didn't give a **** about your alt being banned too, why bother disguising your IP?
Your attitude seems to suggest that you basically said, "well my main has been banned. I've got a good feeling that the GMs will respond well if I repost it a third time though, so I'mma use my alt. However, I feel the uncontrollable desire to change my IP now for no apparent reason before doing so. Guess I'll post from work." WTF?? That or you're just incredibly stupid.

And through it all, you seem really out to get the GMs, which again, creates a credibility issue.

Like I said, why don't you just go do something else now? The GMs gave you this really great opportunity to do something else, and you're still here. How ungrateful can you get!?

Choatic - Archosaur · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Yeah but:

1) I don't give a ****. This is a case of the ends justifying the means. You can go ahead and have your philosophical debate about if the ends justifying the means makes it ok, but personally: it's a god damn game. It's a god damn mod on a god damn game who read the EXACT same post a day after the original poster got banned and he followed his gut feeling. Doesn't sound outrageous at all to me. I'll gladly have the philosophical debate about ends justifying the means when a cop illegally enters a thief's home to prove he's a thief, but this is a damn game.

2) You're assuming your new IP worked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a person can tell if an IP is coming from my general area. If I post from home and then go across town and post from work, I think they can still tell the poster is coming from that town/area. I dunno how many times I've gotten some pop up for some cam girl website, and the advertisement has tried to convince me that these girls were from my town OR from a town surrounding my own. How do you think the ads did that? How'd they figure out my town, and how is it that when they get it wrong, they're always very close, using the names of neighboring towns? With the use of my IP. Two VERY similar IPs and the exact same post? Doesn't take a genius...

3) Your story doesn't add up. One moment you say you don't care if you get perma'd, another moment you say you were very careful to use a different location for a different IP.

If I picture myself as you and I get banned after voicing my opinion, and I truly don't want to get banned on my alt (which you heavily imply in that you tried to use a different IP), then I personally....wouldn't post the same damn thing again to begin with, wtf?? Or if I didn't wanna get banned but really REALLY wanted to repost it, I'd at LEAST make the effort to reword it so it wasn't blatantly obvious that it was the same guy. On the other hand, if you didn't give a **** about your alt being banned too, why bother disguising your IP?
Your attitude seems to suggest that you basically said, "well my main has been banned. I've got a good feeling that the GMs will respond well if I repost it a third time though, so I'mma use my alt. However, I feel the uncontrollable desire to change my IP now for no apparent reason before doing so. Guess I'll post from work." WTF?? That or you're just incredibly stupid.

And through it all, you seem really out to get the GMs, which again, creates a credibility issue.

Like I said, why don't you just go do something else now? The GMs gave you this really great opportunity to do something else, and you're still here. How ungrateful can you get!?

The reason that I didn't care about being banned while being careful, while a little embarrassing to admit, is that I was very curious what they would do if someone that didn't have a confrontation with them previously posted the same post. Assuming that IP addresses came from the same area (which is a bit of a stretch because I work an hr away from home by car) is still an assumption. He is assuming that no two posters in the same zip code can be the same person. Even if I up the probability to 95% sure, he still did not have the right to do so.

Lastly, I do not care if you don't give a ****. Frankly, why are you making this your personal thing and arguing with me here? Do you absolutely must have the last word in everything? I didn't create this post for you, yet ur arguments and back and forths with me have taken up most of the thread. I really, really don't want, or care for your opinions. Like you ask me to do something else, can I ask you to do the same?

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

I really, really don't want, or care for your opinions. Like you ask me to do something else, can I ask you to do the same?

Sure. The difference is I'll actually do it.

Good luck with your quest to demonize the GMs and all.

Veins - Dreamweaver · August 2010

It's people like you who undermine the rest of us.

Charly - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

I honestly dont care at this point. Not crying or beef but I really just dont care at all.

Wat.
If you don't care, why'd you even post, then continue to argue?

Successful attention seeker is successful.

Amencat - Sanctuary · August 2010

Choatic - Archosaur wrote: »

Wow I can't believe this really...you all find nothing wrong with this kind of biased treatment, but instead are all busy picking bones with me...? I'm just a really frustrated player, and you have any idea how saddening it is to see that I'm attacked not by mods, but fellow players? The title is wrong, this isn't hilarious, it's one of the saddest things ever.

its sad and true, 85% of ppl posting in this forums, have nothing else to say as:
- "QQ"
- "necro"
- "stop picking on those poor mods"
- "stop posting things over again"
- "***********" <- some kind of personal assault

personally i have to say, thank you for posting this thread, i couldnt even imagine that the mods would ban someone just from copy and paste a banned thread again b:shocked
this is a really usefull information, good to know b:bye

only sad for you, that you ever payed some real money for this game, when you know:

1. not even a single mod/dev care about your wishes
2. they do what they want, only trying to get LESS WORK for themselves
3. you dont even buy anthything with your money, you could as good as throw those out of the window

so learn from it, even if 1000000 ppl would start complain here, about how unfair it is, you see even the TW changes with all those raged ppl protesting against it, doesnt change anything b:laugh

Zairi - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Its useless to use reasoning here Longknife but you probably know already.b:laugh

And yeah sure cashshoppers dont get banned. And thats why i knew someone who just charged 400$ that month to get a Herc, then got perma banned for WC trolling.b:bye

Also they can SEE how old your Acc is they banned you for makeing an Acc for the sole purpose of trolling. If the Acc is 1h old and instantly copy-pasted a closed thread it is an alt acc for trolling purpose and that gets perma banned. Im not sure if its written in the forum rules but all forums i know perma ban this. Not only f2p also p2p game forums perma ban that. Also the copy-paste thing could also be the reason for a perma ban because even if they didnt guessed its you: You read the thread, see it is closed for obvious reason and you copy-paste and expect to not get a harder punishment? ;-)

But as i said before its useless because you Sir Choatic do know that very well you just love trolling in my opinion.b:laugh

Pressa - Heavens Tear · August 2010

oi oi yah stop playing the innocent victim here when one ****s up one takes the blame for it thats how the world works. A interesting note is they can ban you for no reason whatsoever thats in their policy that you agreed to.

"PWE may at its option issue warnings and temporary suspensions and permanent terminations of Accounts for user violations. We retain the sole discretion as to when and how to impose warnings, penalties and/or disciplinary actions. We consider the severity of the violation and the number of infractions in making our determination; however, any determination shall be under the absolute discretion of PWE. Not withstanding the foregoing, PWE always retains the right to terminate or suspend your account at any time for any reason, or for no reason, with or without any warnings and with or without notice.."

AKA they thought maybe it could be the same guy so they said **** it and banned it for doing the same thing twice since the other account did it once they didn't ban that one for longer. If it wasn't you and their feeling was wrong the user would complain and appeal for their removal of the perma-ban. They know that if it wasn't you they could sort it out later and if it was they have solved the problem. Thats all there is to it.

ThanosQRC - Dreamweaver · August 2010

1. maybe they also keep the ip you used to create the account so if it's the same with the ip you used to create the other account that's another evidence

2. sure, dynamic ip etc etc but it would be quite a coincidence if someone with an account created with the same ip as another one copied an article of the other account after that account, dont you think?

3. even if they dont keep the creation ip, all the other evidence can justify the perma-ban

4. you can always email them about the ban (or send a ticket?) in case something is wrong. it is reversible, it's not the death sentence....

5. btw it's against the ToS to make topics about banned accounts as fas as i know

6. even if there is some bias i think it's not only logical but also acceptable and right.

Olba - Sanctuary · August 2010

As far as I'd guess, the ToS has a clause that pretty much goes "PWE may ban you for any reason or no reason at all".

Considering that, your point kinda goes down the drain.

And really, they're just doing their job. For all that you know, their guidelines could be, as you seem to believe, "harsher punishment for the non-cash shoppers". Or it could be that a whoever did the banning wasn't gonna stand for the same topic multiple times. I know I wouldn't. And if you're not gonna want to repeat the same pattern, the best thing you can do is to set an example. Yes, kill one person to warn a thousand.

Jesus, they're normal people. Therefore they behave like normal people. Normal people have priorities and values. Most people also happen to have an affinity towards money. Money tends to come to normal people in these things some weirdos call pay checks. I think these pay checks come from someone else, who might just have a bit of a hold over these guys. After all, it's money. So...

This is hilarious...

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