Are HA sins fail?
Senjou - Harshlands
Posts: 1 Arc User
There's a few in Harshlands, but not many. Are they good, bad or both? Tell me what u guys think.
Post edited by Senjou - Harshlands on
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Well these HA sins wasted a good amount of points into str when these points we're worth putting in DEX instead.
Thus, they should roll a barb or fist BM instead.
Not to mention that sins have buffs such as Deaden Nerves,Bloodpaint,Focused mind etc. who can help them SURVIVE.... so there's no point in having HA.b:laughI hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!0 -
Yes. HA Sins are fail.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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Fail. Light armor sins hav higher crit which recovers most of there HP also LA has better INT so we can perma demon spark[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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HA Sins are potentially better for PvE farming, but I wouldn't have it for PvP. The few on HL, only one I know of is Deity, have to spend a lot of money into interval gears and refines to make up for the lower damage of min STR fists vs pure DEX daggers.0
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LivingSin is another 5aps fist HA sin now... 10k hp qq i'm so jealous. b:cry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »LivingSin is another 5aps fist HA sin now... 10k hp qq i'm so jealous. b:cry
Who the f*** is LivingSin? Some CS Sin that was made in the past few weeks? I've never seen that person PKing or even ranked on Nien event.
*Sigh* you are 98 now and I've been 99 for 3 months... I really need to find motivations to get my Sin back in FC.0 -
Well..Yes My sin was a HA till the late 30s
Life was like awesome I soloed every thing Easily And Life Seemed to be good
But Well I was goin Pure Dex at the 40s but ..He started to fail a bit...
And After a bad experience I learnt that
1-LA Yes LA for sins
2-Pure Dex is awesome
3-We have Blood Paint
Well Around here there is only 1 ''Proper HA Sin''Clammeir >.>
But lets consider the fact that not all People can afford Love up and down And a buncha of rings cost around emm 180million
Bla Blah Blah dont want to Go on
So People if U guess U can afford restating and wasting around 500million to balance things up Then Enjoy (at the late 90s)
If not Go Dex
To All Noobs out there when U get rib strike to 4 or 5 with Blood paint PvE is a piece of cake b:pleasedb:pleased0 -
yea they are fail but they should think about pure dex they wil be great0
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so heres how i see it HA sins are fail because,
1)They arent as strong as a fist BM coz they dont have the phy def buff or marrows to balance out phy and mag defs,and arnt as strong as barb coz they dont have an hp buff.
2)Sins attack(damage) is proportional to their DEX and not STR.HA sins obviously require more Str than LA sins and hence would deal less damage wen using daggers.If they only use fists they wouldnt be able use any of their skills hence leaving them at a significant disadvantage.0 -
My opinion is that, in general (unless you are freaking God and know what you are doing), going HA except at level cap with epic gear solely for the sake of tanking and APS (if you use claws/fists to take advantage of all that str) is stupid.
^This.PhantomDrake - Sanctuary wrote: »so heres how i see it HA sins are fail because,
1)They arent as strong as a fist BM coz they dont have the phy def buff or marrows to balance out phy and mag defs,and arnt as strong as barb coz they dont have an hp buff.
2)Sins attack(damage) is proportional to their DEX and not STR.HA sins obviously require more Str than LA sins and hence would deal less damage wen using daggers.If they only use fists they wouldnt be able use any of their skills hence leaving them at a significant disadvantage.
You explained it perfectly.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »My opinion is that, in general (unless you are freak God and know what you are doing), going HA except at level cap with epic gear solely for the sake of tanking and APS (if you use claws/fists to take advantage of all that str) is stupid.
^This.
You explained it perfectly.
Yes That is it
So go HA when u Cash shop..At the 90s or so..
And Some Heavy Cash Shopping like Selling ur House on E_Bay :P0 -
Ummm... Oh really brbz0
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Sin Standard
Sin Demon Sparked
BM Standard
BM Demon Spark
So, since i consider most people playing assassin nubs nowadays, i'll explain it with crayons.
1. PvE: So stupidly easy that it should be self-explanatory.
Both can tank. BM gets more P. Def. Sin gets Blood-Paint to make up for it. I pretty much can do everything just as simple regardless which character i use.
2. PvP: Ohh really...
Before i start, i'll be assuming that you are referring to DEMON pure dex assassin. Cuz there is rather a small chance someone sage would go for heavy. Now...
PvP is separated in 2 different situations.
2.1 Solo RPK: This involves small group PvP as well(2~3 ppl) Stealth+pew-pew.
Anything dies regardless if you are Dex or Heavy(End game weapon/interval)
Heavy have an advantage at being able to tank longer BMs or Barbs in case they Absolute domain/pot/Expel/turtle/spark. LA and AA should be dead within 2~3 seconds.
2.2 Group PvP: If you have been in any decent group PvP, you should know that at no freaking point melee characters have the luxury to demon spark.
The only time where you demon spark in a group battle is when you can follow it up with domain+iron guard which would guarantee a kill as either dex or heavy.
With this said, don't give me that argument "but demon sparked +12 daggers is so much dmg."
TW wise heavy survives a lot better than LA, and that should be clear so i'm not going there.
Regarding assassin's job in PvP. Your job is to assassinate main targets. What is the faster way to kill a target without being noticed?
Stealth >Pre-Buffs> Double Spark > Head Hunt/ Power Dash+Occult Ice > Auto attack.
Now who has the edge you may say? I say Heavy.
Considering you have recasted dagger +10 as pure dex, you will have ~700-800 more base dmg than what i showed in the SS. Yet, while you are hitting at 3.33 with that, im hitting at 5.0 without needed any kind of skills to get max a/s.
With that said, i'd like to point out that you can be a fist heavy SAGE assassin and still have 5.0 a/s.
What does it imply? That you have:
20% dmg reduction during 3rd spark, out tanking BMs(Don't forget 3% Blood-Paint). Or enabling you to actually 3rd spark in group PvP and not get your azz handed to you before the spark runs out.
66% chance of not getting status, 33% chance at getting only 1 dmg from any kind of attack or skills.
More chi + reduced cooldown times of disabling skills + increased duration time of statuses you inflict = real perma-disabling targets.
10% Sharp-tooth
+10 Attack level w/o sacrificing attack speed
50% crit from Power Dash instead of 40% makes up for the crit you lose for not being full dex.
+10 Attack level from ravaging Slash.
Self-Purify
If you though the only way to play a sin is demon pure dex, you are sadly mistaking.0 -
Perhaps the HA assassin build is best left for experts like Killermate. Someone who is still learning the basics of the sin class might do better sticking with a traditional build.0
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Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Sin Standard
Sin Demon Sparked
BM Standard
BM Demon Spark
So, since i consider most people playing assassin nubs nowadays, i'll explain it with crayons.
1. PvE: So stupidly easy that it should be self-explanatory.
Both can tank. BM gets more P. Def. Sin gets Blood-Paint to make up for it. I pretty much can do everything just as simple regardless which character i use.
2. PvP: Ohh really...
Before i start, i'll be assuming that you are referring to DEMON pure dex assassin. Cuz there is rather a small chance someone sage would go for heavy. Now...
PvP is separated in 2 different situations.
2.1 Solo RPK: This involves small group PvP as well(2~3 ppl) Stealth+pew-pew.
Anything dies regardless if you are Dex or Heavy(End game weapon/interval)
Heavy have an advantage at being able to tank longer BMs or Barbs in case they Absolute domain/pot/Expel/turtle/spark. LA and AA should be dead within 2~3 seconds.
2.2 Group PvP: If you have been in any decent group PvP, you should know that at no freaking point melee characters have the luxury to demon spark.
The only time where you demon spark in a group battle is when you can follow it up with domain+iron guard which would guarantee a kill as either dex or heavy.
With this said, don't give me that argument "but demon sparked +12 daggers is so much dmg."
TW wise heavy survives a lot better than LA, and that should be clear so i'm not going there.
Regarding assassin's job in PvP. Your job is to assassinate main targets. What is the faster way to kill a target without being noticed?
Stealth >Pre-Buffs> Double Spark > Head Hunt/ Power Dash+Occult Ice > Auto attack.
Now who has the edge you may say? I say Heavy.
Considering you have recasted dagger +10 as pure dex, you will have ~700-800 more base dmg than what i showed in the SS. Yet, while you are hitting at 3.33 with that, im hitting at 5.0 without needed any kind of skills to get max a/s.
With that said, i'd like to point out that you can be a fist heavy SAGE assassin and still have 5.0 a/s.
What does it imply? That you have:
20% dmg reduction during 3rd spark, out tanking BMs(Don't forget 3% Blood-Paint). Or enabling you to actually 3rd spark in group PvP and not get your azz handed to you before the spark runs out.
66% chance of not getting status, 33% chance at getting only 1 dmg from any kind of attack or skills.
More chi + reduced cooldown times of disabling skills + increased duration time of statuses you inflict = real perma-disabling targets.
10% Sharp-tooth
+10 Attack level w/o sacrificing attack speed
50% crit from Power Dash instead of 40% makes up for the crit you lose for not being full dex.
+10 Attack level from ravaging Slash.
Self-Purify
If you though the only way to play a sin is demon pure dex, you are sadly mistaking.
Something wrong with your damage or your fists still +0?[SIGPIC]100% F2P Assassin[/SIGPIC]
Overclocked 100% F2P Assassin (1st lvl105 @ 22Nov2010)0 -
THAT IS IT!!!
I am restating at the 90s b:byeb:bye0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »2.2 Group PvP: If you have been in any decent group PvP, you should know that at no freaking point melee characters have the luxury to demon spark.
The only time where you demon spark in a group battle is when you can follow it up with domain+iron guard which would guarantee a kill as either dex or heavy.
With this said, don't give me that argument "but demon sparked +12 daggers is so much dmg."
And what does not sparking have to do with HA or LA? Using fists, most of your damage are from spark anyways and your normal hits are just pathetic compare to pure DEX daggers so this is more like arguing against your case.
Again, why heavy? You are not getting hit in the scenario you just listed. You are just taking longer to kill them with fists.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Regarding assassin's job in PvP. Your job is to assassinate main targets. What is the faster way to kill a target without being noticed?
Stealth >Pre-Buffs> Double Spark > Head Hunt/ Power Dash+Occult Ice > Auto attack.
Now who has the edge you may say? I say Heavy.
Where's your 700-800 from? Compare with Anti_Matter and come back with SS. You are also leaving out the more than 10% crit pure DEX would have, which essentially adds 10% more DPS. Sparking at 5 with fists vs sparking at 3.33 with daggers are one of those times where fists would surely out DD daggers. For unsparked 3.33 vs 5 or sparked 4 vs 5, we'll need actual numbers to compare.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Considering you have recasted dagger +10 as pure dex, you will have ~700-800 more base dmg than what i showed in the SS. Yet, while you are hitting at 3.33 with that, im hitting at 5.0 without needed any kind of skills to get max a/s.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
With that said, i'd like to point out that you can be a fist heavy SAGE assassin and still have 5.0 a/s.
What does it imply? That you have:
20% dmg reduction during 3rd spark, out tanking BMs(Don't forget 3% Blood-Paint). Or enabling you to actually 3rd spark in group PvP and not get your azz handed to you before the spark runs out.
66% chance of not getting status, 33% chance at getting only 1 dmg from any kind of attack or skills.
More chi + reduced cooldown times of disabling skills + increased duration time of statuses you inflict = real perma-disabling targets.
10% Sharp-tooth
+10 Attack level w/o sacrificing attack speed
50% crit from Power Dash instead of 40% makes up for the crit you lose for not being full dex.
+10 Attack level from ravaging Slash.
Self-Purify
If you though the only way to play a sin is demon pure dex, you are sadly mistaking.
A sage sin can do all that at 4 APS with daggers and you have yet to show that 5 APS fists out DDs 4 APS daggers.0 -
I like Ha more for Pve. As a Ha sin (lv80) I stacked a lot of dex in to my gear. (cape+5 Head+5 arm+3 neck +6 belt+7 ring+7 ring+8 body+5) and I went a 5/5 split. Idk what the norm ha is. but I'm at lv 80 and using TT80 gold daggers, as a La pure dex sin I would take hate from barbs 4-5 lvs over me. For pvp I liked Pure dex. b:surrender but thats just me.0
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I think your math fails, or maybe you are lazy to even calculate anything.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561
Fist has a full -0.1 interval over daggers. Meaning at Un-Sparked Fist get 5.0 while dagger gets 3.33 with FULL interval gear.
"And what does not sparking have to do with HA or LA? Using fists, most of your damage are from spark anyways and your normal hits are just pathetic compare to pure DEX daggers so this is more like arguing against your case."
Attacking at 5.0 unsparked i can kill most AA, LA. And if you keep reading i didn't sayin do not spark, i said do not demon spark or you'll get focus fire and die in 2 seconds like KY assassins on TW.
"Again, why heavy? You are not getting hit in the scenario you just listed. You are just taking longer to kill them with fists."
How is Attacking 1.67 more times per second taking longer? LOL
"Where's your 700-800 from? Compare with Anti_Matter"
Already did.
BTW, let's make it simple for you cuz i know this must be hard for you.
E.X:
Fist 5.000x5=25.000 dmg per second
Dagger with a wooping imaginary 2K more dmg than Fist 7.000x3.33= 23.310
With EVERY SECOND of auto attacking the 5K fist base is dealing 1690 more dmg. Same would apply for attacks in double spark. Understand the concept now?
And if you have any doubt about dmg base on weapons stop being lazy and go to http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/
P.S: I have yet to see any person that went rank8 on assassin just to get an extra 0.5 interval from chest, so im leaving 4.0 base APS with dagger out of the question.0 -
Every sin would know that "offence is the best defence"....
But I guess not many b:sweatI hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »I think your math fails, or maybe you are lazy to even calculate anything.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561
Fist has a full -0.1 interval over daggers. Meaning at Un-Sparked Fist get 5.0 while dagger gets 3.33 with FULL interval gear.
My math fails? There's arithmetic 101. Daggers start with 0.8 interval. With full interval gears you get:
Daggers -0.1
Bracers -0.1
Rank 8 top -0.1
Cape -0.05
Tome -0.05
Ashura -0.05
Lionheart -0.05
Nirvana leggings -0.05
0.8 - 0.1*3 -0.05*5= 0.25, aka 4.0 APS
b:byeKillermate - Harshlands wrote: »"And what does not sparking have to do with HA or LA? Using fists, most of your damage are from spark anyways and your normal hits are just pathetic compare to pure DEX daggers so this is more like arguing against your case."
Attacking at 5.0 unsparked i can kill most AA, LA. And if you keep reading i didn't sayin do not spark, i said do not demon spark or you'll get focus fire and die in 2 seconds like KY assassins on TW.
So I'm "assuming" by saying "do not demon spark or you'll get focus fire and die in 2 seconds", you are saying you should not demon spark most of the time? If that's not what you mean then we are speaking different versions of English. So this brings us back to the DPS of unsparked fists vs daggers.
Deity with his +10 fists was hitting me for 200 each hit unsparked back when I was in lower 9X. Even at 5 a second, that's 1k damage per second.
Because you have yet to show that unsparked fists out DPS unspraked daggers?Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »"Again, why heavy? You are not getting hit in the scenario you just listed. You are just taking longer to kill them with fists."
How is Attacking 1.67 more times per second taking longer? LOL
Post SS then.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »"Where's your 700-800 from? Compare with Anti_Matter"
Already did.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »BTW, let's make it simple for you cuz i know this must be hard for you.
E.X:
Fist 5.000x5=25.000 dmg per second
Dagger with a wooping imaginary 2K more dmg than Fist 7.000x3.33= 23.310
With EVERY SECOND of auto attacking the 5K fist base is dealing 1690 more dmg. Same would apply for attacks in double spark. Understand the concept now?
And if you have any doubt about dmg base on weapons stop being lazy and go to http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/
Here are the 2 builds
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f85eac08b896ac0c DPS: ((7168+8627)/2)*3.33(36/100+1)= 35766.198
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba7483cfc2834989 DPS: ((5337+6087)/2)*5(25/100+1)= 35700
Note that pw calc does not have demon dagger mastery.
I know "this must be hard for you", but you just can't understand that crit factor towards DPS as well. Note the difference in accuracy, and misses have to be taken into account, not mathematically, but as a mental note. Understand the concept now?Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »P.S: I have yet to see any person that went rank8 on assassin just to get an extra 0.5 interval from chest, so im leaving 4.0 base APS with dagger out of the question.
But you said" while dagger gets 3.33 with FULL interval gear". I'm just assume FULL means all the interval gears.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »My math fails? There's arithmetic 101. Daggers start with 0.8 interval. With full interval gears you get:
Daggers -0.1
Bracers -0.1
Rank 8 top -0.1
Cape -0.05
Tome -0.05
Ashura -0.05
Lionheart -0.05
Nirvana leggings -0.05
0.8 - 0.1*3 -0.05*5= 0.25, aka 4.0 APS
b:bye
So I'm "assuming" by saying "do not demon spark or you'll get focus fire and die in 2 seconds", you are saying you should not demon spark most of the time? If that's not what you mean then we are speaking different versions of English. So this brings us back to the DPS of unsparked fists vs daggers.
Deity with his +10 fists was hitting me for 200 each hit unsparked back when I was in lower 9X. Even at 5 a second, that's 1k damage per second.
Because you have yet to show that unsparked fists out DPS unspraked daggers?
Post SS then.
Here are the 2 builds
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f85eac08b896ac0c DPS: ((7168+8627)/2)*3.33(36/100+1)= 35766.198
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba7483cfc2834989 DPS: ((5337+6087)/2)*5(25/100+1)= 35700
Note that pw calc does not have demon dagger mastery.
I know "this must be hard for you", but you just can't understand that crit factor towards DPS as well. Note the difference in accuracy, and misses have to be taken into account, not mathematically, but as a mental note. Understand the concept now?
But you said" while dagger gets 3.33 with FULL interval gear". I'm just assume FULL means all the interval gears.
Ohh you being a stubborn re-tard i guess.
1. I already stated that i have yet to see anyone buy rank 8 just for extra 0.05 interval. I said this already but since you like to deny i did i'll said it again. 4.0 aps with daggers is still out of the question.
2. I have done nirvana run with Anti where i could easy hold agro. If you need a prove go ask him yourself.
3. Gotta love how you made 2 PWcalculations where dagger BARELY shows more dmg than fist.
I find it more hilarious the way you arranged the gear so that Fist build have LA neck and a lot of extra dex that could go into Str, while Dagger build have Lion-hearth Neck for the extra dmg and have perfectly measured every single stat. Also in that build you using rank 8 top. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
And yet, you have to take in account all the sage advantages over demon.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba7483cfc2834989
Take the extra Dex, put it on Str. ((5476+6245)/2)*5(25/100+1)=36628.125 > 35766.198
And that is giving the Fist build the disadvantage of using LA neck.0 -
Yeah, you added that at the end of your post... which I did not get to yet? And why is rank 8 out of the question? It's in game?Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Ohh you being a stubborn re-tard i guess.
1. I already stated that i have yet to see anyone buy rank 8 just for extra 0.05 interval. I said this already but since you like to deny i did i'll said it again. 4.0 aps with daggers is still out of the question.
I just picked a combination. Here's the arrangement according to your SS then. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=95cf000e4f85723d DSP: ((5357+6094)/2)*5(25/100+1)=35784.375Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »I find it more hilarious the way you arranged the gear so that Fist build have LA neck and a lot of extra dex that could go into Str, while Dagger build have Lion-hearth Neck for the extra dmg and have perfectly measured every single stat.
What perfectly measured every single stat? I made VIT and DEX 3 in both builds and made STR in the sin build enough for armor, which is what pure DEX is... The BM build is almost exactly as your SS, even with a couple less DEX.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Also in that build you using rank 8 top. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
And yet, you have to take in account all the sage advantages over demon.
REALLY? LOLOLOLOLOLOL is that why it's only showing 3.33 aps? LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Check again LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Glad you can recognize rank 8 plate LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
That's the same link I posted, you didn't hit save.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba7483cfc2834989
Take the extra Dex, put it on Str. ((5476+6245)/2)*5(25/100+1)=36628.125 > 35766.198
And that is giving the Fist build the disadvantage of using LA neck.0 -
Here num num
And my gear is not even close to be perfect. U can see i got extra 5 dex flying around, my TT99 piece selection is not the best, and i could reforge the nirvana piece to get more str.
If i bothered i could really add up to my base dmg.
Your PWcalculator links are merely a sad attempt at trying to disprove something that should be easily understood.0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Here num num
And my gear is not even close to be perfect. U can see i got extra 5 dex flying around, my TT99 piece selection is not the best, and i could reforge the nirvana piece to get more str.
If i bothered i could really add up to my base dmg.
Your PWcalculator links are merely a sad attempt at trying to disprove something that should be easily understood.
Your DPS is ((5502+6259)/2)*5(26/100+1) = 37047.15 while the DSP on the calcu, add in 2% crit from demon dagger devotion is ((7168+8627)/2)*3.33(38/100+1) = 36292.1715 +?. I granted that we've showed that fists at 5 APS out DDs daggers at 3.33, but they will fall behind at any other speed.
((5502 + 6259) / 2) * 4 * ((26 / 100) + 1) = 29637.72
((7168 + 8627) / 2) * 2.86 * ((38 / 100) + 1) = 31169.853+?
So our conclusion for damage is that if you have just enough money for -0.5 interval, then fists will out DPS daggers, but any more or less intervals and it's the other way around. I don't know why you are refusing to take rank 8 into account for endgame interval. You are already spending hundreds of million on gears, a few hundred more gets you even stronger.0 -
I'm a pure dex Demon sin and reading all this rubbish about HA sins with fists made my day.
I don't understand whats the point of using fists when Daggers outdamage by far any fists, and don't come with PWcalc.ru **** since refines for daggers are all wrong in first place.
Using your SS and Okeano DPS formula:Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Sin Standard
Sin Demon Sparked
Sin Standart no spark 4aps
Killermate with fists DPS: 29.230
my sin with Daggers DPS: 73.754
Sin 3Spark 5aps
Killermate with fists DPS: 87.708
my sin with Daggers DPS: 183.294
as soon I finish farming my gear I should be able to go till 215.000 using Okeano formula
So in my opinion HA sin damage is too low just to be valid option
About the defense I don't think the extra you get by using HA worth.Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Here num num
in your SS you have 12353 def (74% damage reduce), with same buffs(lvl10 BM buff) in LA I have 8537 (67% damage reduce). That's less 7% but I still get more than twice healing from Bloodpaint.
I hope new sins don't get mislead by this topic, HA Sin sucks[SIGPIC]100% F2P Assassin[/SIGPIC]
Overclocked 100% F2P Assassin (1st lvl105 @ 22Nov2010)0 -
Kitamura - Lost City wrote: »I'm a pure dex Demon sin and reading all this rubbish about HA sins with fists made my day.
I don't understand whats the point of using fists when Daggers outdamage by far any fists, and don't come with PWcalc.ru **** since refines for daggers are all wrong in first place.
Using your SS and Okeano DPS formula:
Sin Standart no spark 4aps
Killermate with fists DPS: 29.230
my sin with Daggers DPS: 73.754
Sin 3Spark 5aps
Killermate with fists DPS: 87.708
my sin with Daggers DPS: 183.294
as soon I finish farming my gear I should be able to go till 215.000 using Okeano formula
So in my opinion HA sin damage is too low just to be valid option
About the defense I don't think the extra you get by using HA worth.
in your SS you have 12353 def (74% damage reduce), with same buffs(lvl10 BM buff) in LA I have 8537 (67% damage reduce). That's less 7% but I still get more than twice healing from Bloodpaint.
I hope new sins don't get mislead by this topic, HA Sin sucks
I can tell by your numbers that you miscalculated several things, like using my old base dmg, calculating in 4.0 aps when it should be 5 aps, and god knows what else. Im not even gonna bother. Also before you start trolling read all the posts made on the treat.
U saying because you can perma demon Spark in PvE, Demon Pure Dex is better than Sage Pure Str Fist. I'll give you this, you can kill bosses faster as long as you are perma sparking, but when the hell do you perma spark in PvP?
The advantage and survivability of the sage build is by far greater than that of a pure dex demon assassin. It's not just about the extra P. Def and HP from HA, but the end game skills overall. Go read previous posts if you need an explanation.
As for Fist full Str Sage build damage sucking.. i just gotta LOL. I can easily take down any target including 25K+ HP barbs and Full buffed BMs with or without physical marrow.
On a side note, Okeano, now that i have seem to have found a re-tard that'd buy rank8 just for extra 0.05 interval (Kitamura), i'll put into consideration the 4.0 base with daggers. With that said here is my conclusion.
If you play on a PvE server where 90% of the time your targets will be just sitting there to get hit, go full dex demon assassin as it has the bigger dmg output in perma spark. There is no need to go any higher then 3.33 aps base imo.
If you are a major Cash Shopper playing in a PvP server that would throw any amount of money into the game, go for rank 8 Pure Dex Demon assassin, since that would give you bragging rights at having the most DPS. Beware that once you invest money into offense, you need to waste just as much money in defense as you become a "hate target".
If you have nothing less than full vit stones/+10 get ready to hit the floor repeatedly as soon as you get out of stealth. For an example go YouTube Zulu vs KY few past TWs and watch closely how many seconds KY assassins stayed alive once they came out of stealth.
If you are a casual player with non-existent or moderate cash shopping and got enough skill to switch weapons during PvP, Pure Str Fist Sage may be the build for you.
But what does Full Str Fist Sage build represents?
More than enough DPS to kill anything. Out of all existent builds, you only fall behind Pure Dex rank 8 assassin when it comes down to single target dmg in PvP. Yes, you even out DPS BMs. In the other hand, you get 10% Sharp-tooth, +50% crit from Power Dash, +10 Attack level from ravaging slash and better disabling skills, which imo makes up for not being the top DPS build.
Survivability-wise you **** full dex demon assassins. There is not even a point to compare.
20% less dmg taken during sage spark, 3% blood-paint, HA gives you a lot of extra P. Def and HP(LA magic resistance sucks, so you are not really sacrificing anything), 66% chance at not getting negative statuses, 33% chance at getting no dmg, and a self-purify. This also enables you to survive a lot in PvP without having to full Vit Stone/+10 your gear.
And now the kicker, this build can be easily brought down by the same amount of money it would take you to get rank 8 ALONE, and you will still have enough left over money for refines and shards.
HA may not have the best DPS output, and may require more skills than just stealth+auto attack, but when it comes down to the OP of the treat "Are HA sins fail?" you can say without any doubt, no!0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »I can tell by your numbers that you miscalculated several things, like using my old base dmg, calculating in 4.0 aps when it should be 5 aps, and god knows what else. Im not even gonna bother. Also before you start trolling read all the posts made on the treat.
U saying because you can perma demon Spark in PvE, Demon Pure Dex is better than Sage Pure Str Fist. I'll give you this, you can kill bosses faster as long as you are perma sparking, but when the hell do you perma spark in PvP?
The advantage and survivability of the sage build is by far greater than that of a pure dex demon assassin. It's not just about the extra P. Def and HP from HA, but the end game skills overall. Go read previous posts if you need an explanation.
As for Fist full Str Sage build damage sucking.. i just gotta LOL. I can easily take down any target including 25K+ HP barbs and Full buffed BMs with or without physical marrow.
On a side note, Okeano, now that i have seem to have found a re-tard that'd buy rank8 just for extra 0.05 interval (Kitamura), i'll put into consideration the 4.0 base with daggers. With that said here is my conclusion.
If you play on a PvE server where 90% of the time your targets will be just sitting there to get hit, go full dex demon assassin as it has the bigger dmg output in perma spark. There is no need to go any higher then 3.33 aps base imo.
If you are a major Cash Shopper playing in a PvP server that would throw any amount of money into the game, go for rank 8 Pure Dex Demon assassin, since that would give you bragging rights at having the most DPS. Beware that once you invest money into offense, you need to waste just as much money in defense as you become a "hate target".
If you have nothing less than full vit stones/+10 get ready to hit the floor repeatedly as soon as you get out of stealth. For an example go YouTube Zulu vs KY few past TWs and watch closely how many seconds KY assassins stayed alive once they came out of stealth.
If you are a casual player with non-existent or moderate cash shopping and got enough skill to switch weapons during PvP, Pure Str Fist Sage may be the build for you.
But what does Full Str Fist Sage build represents?
More than enough DPS to kill anything. Out of all existent builds, you only fall behind Pure Dex rank 8 assassin when it comes down to single target dmg in PvP. Yes, you even out DPS BMs. In the other hand, you get 10% Sharp-tooth, +50% crit from Power Dash, +10 Attack level from ravaging slash and better disabling skills, which imo makes up for not being the top DPS build.
Survivability-wise you **** full dex demon assassins. There is not even a point to compare.
20% less dmg taken during sage spark, 3% blood-paint, HA gives you a lot of extra P. Def and HP(LA magic resistance sucks, so you are not really sacrificing anything), 66% chance at not getting negative statuses, 33% chance at getting no dmg, and a self-purify. This also enables you to survive a lot in PvP without having to full Vit Stone/+10 your gear.
And now the kicker, this build can be easily brought down by the same amount of money it would take you to get rank 8 ALONE, and you will still have enough left over money for refines and shards.
HA may not have the best DPS output, and may require more skills than just stealth+auto attack, but when it comes down to the OP of the treat "Are HA sins fail?" you can say without any doubt, no!
Well Said0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Nuff said
At last try to don't act like a troll if you wanna make "pro" arguments for freaks sake.I hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!0 -
You are telling us that you "moderately" cash shopped yourKillermate - Harshlands wrote: »If you are a casual player with non-existent or moderate cash shopping and got enough skill to switch weapons during PvP, Pure Str Fist Sage may be the build for you.
Rank 6 ~ 100 mil
Love up and down ~ 200 mil+
TT100 fists (+10'ed) ~ 150 mil + ???
Lunar cape ~ 40 mil
I'll assume you farmed your TT99 and Nirvana. If a HA Sin doesn't have that much money to reach 5 APS, they will just be a joke.
If you want full STR HA 5 APS, why not just roll a BM? You'll be a lot more useful in TW and group PvP.
This.Tudordan - Dreamweaver wrote: »Nuff said
At last try to don't act like a troll if you wanna make "pro" arguments for freaks sake.0
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