Banning ppl for Bug Abusing. Is it right?Discuss.
asynsyn
Posts: 2 Arc User
Yes I think its perfectly acceptable to ban those bug abusers that can potentially disturb or change the server in a way.
How about small and really old bugs that GMs ignore themselves or too lazy to fix. Is it right for them to punish other people for their own failures?
I think banning ppl for a bug that's going fixed is acceptable... but why ban them for something thats not going to be fixed in the first place? If its not worth fixing, then it shouldnt be worth being banned over
Bug Abusing is a person getting an unfair advantage using a bug, what about bugs that give everyone an unfair disadvantage.
If bug abusing deserves a punishment, shouldnt we be compensated for bugs that give us a disadvantage. Such as bugs in Nirvana, Lunar, and even the simple Mdef buff thats never been fixed
How about small and really old bugs that GMs ignore themselves or too lazy to fix. Is it right for them to punish other people for their own failures?
I think banning ppl for a bug that's going fixed is acceptable... but why ban them for something thats not going to be fixed in the first place? If its not worth fixing, then it shouldnt be worth being banned over
Bug Abusing is a person getting an unfair advantage using a bug, what about bugs that give everyone an unfair disadvantage.
If bug abusing deserves a punishment, shouldnt we be compensated for bugs that give us a disadvantage. Such as bugs in Nirvana, Lunar, and even the simple Mdef buff thats never been fixed
Post edited by asynsyn on
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oops got cut off x.x0
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i like bans b:kiss0
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Our GM's can't even fix a broken lightbulb. The developers over in China fix stuff and create/fix content.
And I agree that abusing some bugs just shouldn't be bannable. Most of them are harmless anyway, like luring qingzi through the door.
Bugs like PKing in room 1 of the cube however can be quite a nuisance, and since the devs just ain't fixing that the GM's have no choice other than to ban the abusers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
If they are offering a service they should keep it up running good and without problems. If there's a bug i didn't create it for sure, so it's not my fault if it's there and i don't see why i shouldn't use (but i never found one in online games
).
It's like i'm walking in the night in front of a big shop and there's a big hole in the wall. Of course everyone will go inside and take everything. It's up to the shopkeeper to fix the hole, avoiding people to steal his stuff.
Instead if i'm the one creating the hole in the shop, i should absolutely be punished cause it's my fault.
Same thing here. PWE should wake up and fix when they find bugs. There's money involved here, they get paid, and when money is involved you MUST take thing seriously.
Just my opinion, feel free to flame lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Very much so, any and all bugs/glitches that players abuse need to be bannable. Using them shows you are too stupid to play the game the way it is intended and need to cheat to win.
I like how recently the devs changed a few things for example in the tiger quest compared to the nien event, that prevents players from abusing it. Same thing in TT 3-x. I would not say those were bugs but the devs clearly don't like when players abuse things in a way they did not intend. Using bugs would also fall under that. Play right, or get out.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Stuff.
Your signature has always bothered me. Maybe because it is always preceded by an arrogant post, or maybe it's because the fact that pets can die is common knowledge. I mean, I haven't played a venomancer in years, but when I PKed on one, I was fully aware of the mortality of my pets.
Your signature makes it sound as though "everyone" thought pets were invincible, and you proved "everyone" wrong, which I severely doubt is the case. I think the equivalent would be me making a signature saying:
I said from the very beginning "Barbs learn how to stay alive in TW without a cleric, one won't always be available since they can die."
They said I was an idiot, now look, everyone realized I was right all along. b:chuckle
Let that be a lesson to you, I know more about TW than you do. b:bye
What I just said sounds stupid.
But what finally made me reply to it, after all this time, was finally clicking your profile and finding you have a killcount of a level 40. You honestly think you know more about PK than me with a hundred-something kills?
Good day sir.0 -
NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »Your signature has always bothered me. Maybe because it is always preceded by an arrogant post, or maybe it's because the fact that pets can die is common knowledge. I mean, I haven't played a venomancer in years, but when I PKed on one, I was fully aware of the mortality of my pets.
Your signature makes it sound as though "everyone" thought pets were invincible, and you proved "everyone" wrong, which I severely doubt is the case. I think the equivalent would be me making a signature saying:
I said from the very beginning "Barbs learn how to stay alive in TW without a cleric, one won't always be available since they can die."
They said I was an idiot, now look, everyone realized I was right all along. b:chuckle
Let that be a lesson to you, I know more about TW than you do. b:bye
What I just said sounds stupid.
But what finally made me reply to it, after all this time, was finally clicking your profile and finding you have a killcount of a level 40. You honestly think you know more about PK than me with a hundred-something kills?
Good day sir.
b:laugh lol +10 -
NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »Your signature has always bothered me. Maybe because it is always preceded by an arrogant post, or maybe it's because the fact that pets can die is common knowledge. I mean, I haven't played a venomancer in years, but when I PKed on one, I was fully aware of the mortality of my pets.
Your signature makes it sound as though "everyone" thought pets were invincible, and you proved "everyone" wrong, which I severely doubt is the case. I think the equivalent would be me making a signature saying:
I said from the very beginning "Barbs learn how to stay alive in TW without a cleric, one won't always be available since they can die."
They said I was an idiot, now look, everyone realized I was right all along. b:chuckle
Let that be a lesson to you, I know more about TW than you do. b:bye
What I just said sounds stupid.
But what finally made me reply to it, after all this time, was finally clicking your profile and finding you have a killcount of a level 40. You honestly think you know more about PK than me with a hundred-something kills?
Good day sir.
+2
I've thought to ask her to consider the urge to post each time and whether that urge comes because it's an opportunity to brag. Bragging displays insecurity not confidence.
On Topic
Ban:
Botting (not toothpicks), jump ****, serious abuse, luring AoE bosses or mobs towards other players with malicious intent.
Don't ban:
Flying pet glitch. It's far from profitable and it causes more grief to venomancers for it's nasty side effects which gets them killed or wastes their pots saving their butts because of PWE's bad code that's had years to get fixed. I don't even request this for personal interest. It's just a stupid thing I've heard people got temporary banned for.
Commonly abused glitches. There are some that 99.9% of squads abuse, and they're not a significant advantage but rather a trade off.
Grey Areas - When someone can't clearly identify whether it's a glitch or part of the game. Part of the appeal of this game is figuring out how to do things that other people say can't be done and those things sometimes fall into grey areas. One example being the blinding sand / befuddling mist = 0 acc thing they nerfed.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
I have also said many, many times before on these very fourms, I keep my gear to be not so good, and play badly in pvp on purpose so it won't be boring. I also pvp as part of the TEAM effort. Guess what, venomancers are debuffers, we are meant to make everyone else kill things easier, not do all the killing ourselves.
Everyone DID say "a veno without a pet is nothing. Venos HAVE to use their pets in pvp its stupid not to" Then we have venos that send in the phoenix, then run like hell when it dies. All of them learned recently with the pets doing nothing vs nirvana gear and +12 stuff, they darn well better learn how to play WITHOUT the pets. Oh wait, I already knew how, and they never bothered to learn.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have also said many, many times before on these very fourms, I keep my gear to be not so good, and play badly in pvp on purpose so it won't be boring. I also pvp as part of the TEAM effort. Guess what, venomancers are debuffers, we are meant to make everyone else kill things easier, not do all the killing ourselves.
Everyone DID say "a veno without a pet is nothing. Venos HAVE to use their pets in pvp its stupid not to" Then we have venos that send in the phoenix, then run like hell when it dies. All of them learned recently with the pets doing nothing vs nirvana gear and +12 stuff, they darn well better learn how to play WITHOUT the pets. Oh wait, I already knew how, and they never bothered to learn.
I never said that, and I'm sure there are many others that haven't. While I do agree running in without a pet is stupid, I don't think many people have said a veno without a pet is nothing. They do get horrible magic attacks and weak spells, but they are not nothing.0 -
In theory banning people for abusing bugs makes sense and is the right thing to do. The problem is, how do you know their intent? How do you know if they're abusing the bug or if the bug is abusing them?
The venomancer flying pet bug is a good example. If I'm farming mats and something randomly attacks my pet but isn't doing damage, I'm not going to unsummon my pet and get myself killed just so I don't "abuse" a bug. Of course, I'm going to let the pet attack, kill the monster, and move on to the next spot. On the other hand, if I deliberately experiment to find a spot where I can make the glitch happen and then take advantage of it to grind without taking damage, that's obviously a problem.
Of course, many of these issues can and should be fixed. The Cube of Fate safe zone can't be something that would take more than 5 minutes to adjust. Do it. If you don't want people luring monsters through closed doors, move the monster or the door or change the range of the luring skills so it doesn't work anymore. Or don't spawn the monster until the door opens or add some kind of one-shot instant aggro AOE that kills everything nearby until the door opens. Bugs like the flying pet issue might legitimately be difficult to fix, and it might be more reasonable to just ban for it when it happens.
Should we be compensated for bugs that cause us problems? Absolutely. In fact, I submitted a ticket earlier this week requesting a refund of 5k when my barbarian (in tiger form) got 1-shotted by a tombstone on his way into his FB29. Does the 5k really matter? No, but it's a matter of principle. I shouldn't be losing 5k for a broken Illusion Stone teleport. FWIW, I have not yet received that refund (or any sort of response for that matter), and don't honestly expect one.0 -
No, luring Qingzi through the door is not acceptable, it's cheating plain and simple. I realize bugs may be annoying and that ideally they should be fixed and players free to do whatever thay can manage without using hacks or otherwise abusing the client. However, glitch free programs are also much of an ideal regardless of wether we may see many bugs in the game as "easy" to fix... It may simply not be cost effective to do so in some instances. We could have a lenghty discussion on the topic and address the whole "Ghost in the Machine" myth, but the basic fact remains we have to deal with bugs being ingame and that is GM's enforcement of rules that provides a de facto guide on which bugs it is acceptable to use and which aren't. Which means glitching mobs with air pets is unacceptable while skilling Ream on a nix is legitimate.
Now, if you think you can get away with it by all means go ahead... Just remember some of us will drop squad the second you try anything of this sort. Why? Because we will not risk our accounts being banned just so you can be lazy an actually avoid actually playing the game.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have also said many, many times before on these very fourms, I keep my gear to be not so good, and play badly in pvp on purpose so it won't be boring. I also pvp as part of the TEAM effort. Guess what, venomancers are debuffers, we are meant to make everyone else kill things easier, not do all the killing ourselves.
You....surely .... are....kidding.....right.....? Obviously failed to understand the real objective of any game which is to be the best or good AND have fun o.o
It really smells more like an excuse to say "i don't play good in pvp because my skills are bad."
Anyhow abusing bugs which gives the player a huge advantage or a disadvantage to other players should be bannable."One of the most important factors, not only in military matters but in life as a whole, is ... the ability to direct one's whole energies towards the fulfillment of a particular task." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have also said many, many times before on these very fourms, I keep my gear to be not so good, and play badly in pvp on purpose so it won't be boring. I also pvp as part of the TEAM effort. Guess what, venomancers are debuffers, we are meant to make everyone else kill things easier, not do all the killing ourselves.
Debuffers: Archer, Cleric, BM, Wiz, etc. All DD's / All Debuffers.Everyone DID say "a veno without a pet is nothing. Venos HAVE to use their pets in pvp its stupid not to" Then we have venos that send in the phoenix, then run like hell when it dies.
There's how many classes that can out run a veno? Even slow **** wizards kite. If the veno can gain the ground to resummon the Nix -why not? That persons immunity and most powerful moves may have expired by then. In TW, if a squishy veno is able to get a much more powerful player to chase them around: that could be more helpful than just sitting there trying. A good veno doesn't confine themselves to such a singular train of thought.All of them learned recently with the pets doing nothing vs nirvana gear and +12 stuff, they darn well better learn how to play WITHOUT the pets. Oh wait, I already knew how, and they never bothered to learn.
Nirvana makes them immune to threaten, howl, pierce, slow, and all pet dmg or what magical powers am I unaware of? You alone are the only one that learned? b:chuckle
Come down to earth.NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »I never said that, and I'm sure there are many others that haven't. While I do agree running in without a pet is stupid, I don't think many people have said a veno without a pet is nothing. They do get horrible magic attacks and weak spells, but they are not nothing.
BM DC's in BH100 warsong. Being out of squad, a couple guys play around hitting him knocking his HP down to ~70%. Not having much experience with dueling or PK outside of TW a long time ago, I wanted to see what I could do. I tossed a lucky scarab and he died. The two other people in squad acted shocked and called it an epic hit. Is that weak? Most act like archers are the ultimate range DD that no other DD can touch regardless of build and refines yet I haven't noticed any that can out dps or hold aggro on me with anything lower than +6 weapon. I've been attacked by a Wiz and a Cleric in the Cube, after I cast Lucky: they didn't have time to cast again before they were dead. Don't mean to come across bragging but to say that Veno mag is horrible is very misleading. Sure Wizards have some harder hitting spells and get better matk but compare the cast / channel times, and their gimped rate of gain / ability in the PvE side. They have to be major cash shoppers, great merchants, or something to keep up.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
veno w/o pet is not vital ^^0
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BM DC's in BH100 warsong. Being out of squad, a couple guys play around hitting him knocking his HP down to ~70%. Not having much experience with dueling or PK outside of TW a long time ago, I wanted to see what I could do. I tossed a lucky scarab and he died. The two other people in squad acted shocked and called it an epic hit. Is that weak? Most act like archers are the ultimate range DD that no other DD can touch regardless of build and refines yet I haven't noticed any that can out dps or hold aggro on me with anything lower than +6 weapon. I've been attacked by a Wiz and a Cleric in the Cube, after I cast Lucky: they didn't have time to cast again before they were dead. Don't mean to come across bragging but to say that Veno mag is horrible is very misleading. Sure Wizards have some harder hitting spells and get better matk but compare the cast / channel times, and their gimped rate of gain / ability in the PvE side. They have to be major cash shoppers, great merchants, or something to keep up.
Stacked int or not? They should be able to out-dps you if they have Lunar bow and some other int gear.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »Stacked int or not? They should be able to out-dps you if they have Lunar bow and some other int gear.
Typically I see 2-3 -int gears. Gotta say I forgot that one below +6 had a Nirvana bow that I think out dps me. Int isn't as prevalent on gear as -ch (like on rings).Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
off topic, but this is to zoe and the other venos talking about pets being able to die...
THATS WHY YOU GET TWO NIXES
:DDDDDDDDDDDD
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
TY _Bloody_Fox_ for the sig ^_^
I think venomancers are a pretty cool guy, eh mances the venom and doesn't afraid of anything.0 -
How about small and really old bugs that GMs ignore themselves or too lazy to fix. Is it right for them to punish other people for their own failures?
That's the flaw in your argument right there.
The GMs are Game masters/managers. They're just here to communicate info from China to us, to provide customer service regarding billing issues etc and to make sure no one is hacking or cheating.
The devs in China are the ones who can actually make the bug fixes you want. With the GMs having no say in when and how the bugs get fixed, all they can do is discourage their use via punishment.I
AGOREY0 -
TsukuyomiHot - Raging Tide wrote: »If they are offering a service they should keep it up running good and without problems. If there's a bug i didn't create it for sure, so it's not my fault if it's there and i don't see why i shouldn't use (but i never found one in online games ).
It's like i'm walking in the night in front of a big shop and there's a big hole in the wall. Of course everyone will go inside and take everything. It's up to the shopkeeper to fix the hole, avoiding people to steal his stuff.
Instead if i'm the one creating the hole in the shop, i should absolutely be punished cause it's my fault.
Same thing here. PWE should wake up and fix when they find bugs. There's money involved here, they get paid, and when money is involved you MUST take thing seriously.
Just my opinion, feel free to flame lol
No, not everyone would go inside and take stuff from a store that has a hole in the wall! I certainly wouldn't and try to teach my child that is wrong also. Personal responsibility. If you know something is "wrong" yet you do it anyway, it is no less wrong because others do it. I agree "many" people would go through this hole and steal, but lets not say everyone. A few people are left who have morals and know right from wrong
You may not have created the problem by creating the hole. But you are not less guilty if you go through that same hole to "steal"
I haven't found many online bugs here, but I felt I wanted to say something about the whole hole thing b:chuckle0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »That's the flaw in your argument right there.
The GMs are Game masters/managers. They're just here to communicate info from China to us, to provide customer service regarding billing issues etc and to make sure no one is hacking or cheating.
The devs in China are the ones who can actually make the bug fixes you want. With the GMs having no say in when and how the bugs get fixed, all they can do is discourage their use via punishment.
It amazes me how many people get stuck on this useless detail. Just consider GM and Dev and Marketing dept. to all mean the same thing.
players and PWI
we are the customers/consumers
PWI (GM's, Devs, Marketing) are the company
"GM fix this bug/eceonomy/stupid update" means exactly the same thing as "PWI fix this bug/economy/stupid update"
stop trying to impress people with your knowledge of PWI's corporate structure, you just end up making yourself look like a pompous jerkwad.
we are customers complaining, any pwi employee/official has a vested economic interest in satisfying as many customers as possible, regardless of what corporate job title they have. Everyone in PWI has the same goal, to suck as much money as possible out of you, the customer.
in my pants[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »It amazes me how many people get stuck on this useless detail. Just consider GM and Dev and Marketing dept. to all mean the same thing.
players and PWI
we are the customers/consumers
PWI (GM's, Devs, Marketing) are the company
"GM fix this bug/eceonomy/stupid update" means exactly the same thing as "PWI fix this bug/economy/stupid update"
stop trying to impress people with your knowledge of PWI's corporate structure, you just end up making yourself look like a pompous jerkwad.
we are customers complaining, any pwi employee/official has a vested economic interest in satisfying as many customers as possible, regardless of what corporate job title they have. Everyone in PWI has the same goal, to suck as much money as possible out of you, the customer.
But the devs may not agree with what the people want. If it were up to the people then DQ items would NPC for 10k each, but then the economy would go through the roof.
Other than that, I sincerely doubt the devs even give a damn what PWI thinks. All their changes seem geared towards Chinese PW and they seem convinced that whatever issue comes up there will come up here.
Thus the only way a GM can answer a complaint someone makes about a fellow user exploiting a bug, should their messages to the devs go unanswered, is to discourage the exploit via punishment.
Your argument is basically "the customer is always right." Well my argument is Chinese PW doesn't give a damn what you think, so the GMs basically have to take matters into their own hands, and they're only able of dealing out punishment; NOT of fixing the bugs themselves.I AGOREY0 -
satisfying as many customers as possible is not the same thing as giving the customer everything they want.
the individual customer is not always right.
the general consensus of customers usually is, from a business standpoint anyway.
also: thanks Zoe for teaching me everything i know, i couldn't have done it without you :P
in my pants[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Most bugs/glitches gets patched eventually. Or the ones that let players get an in game advantage so to speak. Just takes a while.
Like how you use to be able to level up your alts really fast, putting them outside Silverpool on same coordinates as map 3 zhen spot than party them for massive exp. Pretty sure GMs has no glue about it and pretty sure you wouldn't be banned either if a GM asked why you where afk outside of Silverpol with a lvl 20 char for hours than suddenly hit lvl 50.
I know at least 5-6 similar bugs/glitches like that they patched, than a few they still haven't fixed lol. Remember several bosses in Lunar, Nirvana and TT that use to get glitched and stopped attacking, both Beast in 3-3 and Ancient Evil got glitched by players and stopped attacking. Now its all patched (beside BH100 boss) and they also added mob count in TT/FBs making it kinda pointless for hackers to walk/fly through walls.
Thats why i dont worry much or get frustrated about bug abusing. They do deal with things eventually, in their own way
However i wish they fix freaking magic defense bug or the rubber banding >.<0 -
Oh my..."hey look that store isnt closed lets steal all stuff instead of informing the owner!" Welcome in prison. I'd be shoked but i smell a troll. b:chuckle
Almost all user agreements hold some line which says something like "if you find a bug/glitch you have to report it. If you abuse/use it you will get banned, thx click yes i agree bye."
I dunno if its the same here i never readed that user agreement... even if i know i should...b:surrender
Despite that if i see someone useing bugs and glitches like air pet glitching a boss, lureing through a door... i drop squad and report, like i would if i saw someone is walking into a store with a hohle in the wall and just takes the stuff out. :P
I screenshot and report, but only if im 100% sure cos randomly reporting people cos it "could be" isnt very nice too.b:laugh0 -
I always found this kinda stupid.
The game is presented "as is ". There is no way we can hold PWI acountable for the effects or functionality of the game right?
Yet we are supposed to keep a seperate rulebook besides the rules that are presented in the game or the limitations of gameplay and somehow stay up to date to which bug the devs made this time, so we shouldn't abuse it. And check for all these things if we can use them as a functional part of the game or if it's a bug we aren't allowed to use.
The game is supposed to be functional without bugs. If there is a bug, they should fix it.
Maybe they should post a list with all the bugs when you register, so at least you know what you should avoid... LOL
Would probably be longer then the ToS... LOL0 -
Remmi - Raging Tide wrote: »I always found this kinda stupid.
The game is presented "as is ". There is no way we can hold PWI acountable for the effects or functionality of the game right?
When you pay money for something in game from real life, then there are legal obligations.
I put a contract on my computer that states that any software place uploaded to this computer must be reasonably maintained by the distributor or I reserve the right to punch them in the stomach.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
can u all shut the hell up.....im trying to sleep.0
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NoImKrel - Heavens Tear wrote: »can u all shut the hell up.....im trying to sleep.
-Win! b:victoryBe kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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