Hello, Cash Shopper Speaking

_Ghostz_ - Archosaur wrote: »

I would just like to personally say that this game is getting more ruined by the second, and even with my ample amount of money put into this game,spending money on every server i played on (HT, DW, RT, HL, and ARCHO) it is getting to the point where this game is not worth playing.

There is no response to the players pleads which they overflood these forums with daily

There instead of doing what was said and trying to fix the ingame economy, nothing was done, if fact you just put the main economy poison in the Cash Shop (indefinetly) and expect us to give you Respect?

Now dont get me wrong, spending money on an online game isnt frowned upon at all, in fact i love to if the game is even close to an hobby of mine, but whats the point of spending money on a game with no one to play with...

This game turned from a balanced self efficent and happy player base into....well what is seen on these forums, Complete and utter sh*t and chaos.


Please fix the game soon, or in the near future there wont be a game to fix....thank you

Why don't you just stick to one server and attend to those char only with Zen instead of flooding it on to others?It is waste of time and money to do what you are doing so don't blame others and not the economy.I will admit I got alts on other server but they are just there to visit with others not to play the game.This is your own doing so who do you blame.

Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide wrote: »

However, you seem to be saying that the 10mil notes are the only source of inflation and that somehow removing them will be a magic wand and reset the economy. This is a bogus notion.

There has been billions and billions injected into the economy from people grinding, this cannot be denied. In fact, it was for this reason alone that DQ items were nerfed. It was a move to combat inflation.

Yet the people that want the notes removed to help compensate for inflation were the same ones that were outraged when the DQ price change was implemented to help combat the exact same problem.

How do you square that circle?

The two aren't inconsistent. A small level of coin inflation in the game is to be expected (deflation would mean you'd make money by not playing for a while and coming back later - something I'm certain PWE does not want to encourage).

Inflation happens when the rate of coin entering the system exceeds the rate of coin leaving it. That is, the coin sources generate more coin per day than the coin sinks suck up coin per day. For this to be balanced well, the sources have to generate slightly more than the sinks suck up. Assume for the moment that things were balanced in this fashion back when gold was 100k.

On average the number of hours played by people is pretty constant. Well, maybe it spikes during summer vacation and weekends, but overall it's pretty constant. Similarly, when you grind, you can only obtain coin at a certain rate, say 200k per hour on average. If on average each player grinds 1 hour a day, and there are 5k players (not all online at once of course), then this coin source is relatively stable at 1 billion coin per day. It can vary a bit, but given the large player population, the randomness of drops, and the law of averages, you're probably looking at 1 billion +/- 5% a day.

It's very easy to design a coin sink to counter that. If you want a bit of inflation, just design a sink which on average consumes 0.9 billion coin per day and you've created a net gain of 50-150 million coin per day. The important thing here is that the rate is consistent and difficult to vary. There are no exploits which let you run around one-shotting everything to make that 1 billion per day suddenly become 4 billion per day and completely throwing off your balance.

The tokens from the packs breaks this (moreso when they were first released). Unlike grinding which takes time, packs are almost instant. So instead of 1 billion +/- 5%, it's completely dependent on the instantaneous whims of players opening packs. They probably generated 10s of billions of coin per day when Anniv packs were first released, down to probably ~half a billion per day now. This huge range in potential coin influx makes them very difficult if not impossible to balance with a coin sink. If they'd added a coin sink last September which countered them, removing 10s of billions of coin from the economy each day, that sink would now be causing massive coin deflation, if it hadn't yet emptied the economy of all coin.

The other thing to note is that the influence a player has on the economy is proportional to the amount of coin s/he generates from coin sources. So reducing DQ prices 20% while leaving perfect best luck tokens in means the people who grind have their influence on the economy reduced by ~15%, while the influence of people who open packs remains unchanged. The people who were feeling victimized by rising gold prices had their influence on the economy decreased, while the people opening packs had their influence proportionately increased. That's precisely the opposite of the effect most people wanted, which is why the change drew so much outrage.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So reducing DQ prices 20% while leaving perfect best luck tokens in means the people who grind have their influence on the economy reduced by ~15%, while the influence of people who open packs remains unchanged. The people who were feeling victimized by rising gold prices had their influence on the economy decreased, while the people opening packs had their influence proportionately increased. That's precisely the opposite of the effect most people wanted, which is why the change drew so much outrage.

Please don't go along with all the others and ignore that DQ is only a small part of the income of grinding. That 20% figure is just one of those high numbers that misleads (Something Dell does to it's victims). I think you should also note that dragon order values have gone up, so while NPC's may not pay as well: other players might be paying better. Is anyone complaining about the NPC value of green TT mats?

The gold value HAD to change. It was either that or people start making money playing rather than working which would cut into PWI's profits. They even took steps to make sure that newcomers could gain still by implementing the weapon mold quests, and supply stashes.

On another note, the people that say when people hit 100 and complain they have nothing to do. -BS! Who's not going to do BH1 for the chance at 2m/50mirage or Mysterious Chips/ or 33 US? Who's not going to do BH2 for the 66 rep, the xp or the SP? Then there's Nirvana, FF, OHT gear quests, OHT dailies, all these new events, new ways to grind, the full range of FB's, rolling a new character to share uber gears with, etc. If anything there is MORE to do.

tweakz wrote: »

We have to be ignoring that those tokens are also almost required to get some of the mats for the weapon of the sages which also means they're coin sinks at the same time. We also have to be ignoring the rewards from the events. Just placing in the top 5 got me 12m coin for a little over a half an hours work. We also would have to ignore of the gambler's dilemnas. Gamblers never say how much they lost to get one little they gain. So while you complain about them getting 10m coin for opening a couple packs, you have to ignore how much they've lost and will lose opening other packs.

Weapon of the sages? You're kidding right? You say that like a significant number of those Besties were used to craft badges. Hardly anyone is Rank 6... a handful of venos actually use the Rank 6 weapon... I don't think Sins even use the Rank 6 weapon, and I don't know of any other classes that would benefit much from it, so that wouldn't really be an issue either.

Yes, Neinbeast was dishing out a fair share of coin as well. 40 people had the chance per event to get excitement or ecstasy cards, however most people didn't regularly make 12 mil per event. Far from it really. Excitement and Ecstasy cards were nice rewards but they weren't all that frequent. The frequency of the Neinbeast event though put enough into circulation, but you're fooling yourself if you believe they injected nearly as much as packs have in the same time span.

Gambler's delimina? You forget how many people also MAKE a ton of money opening packs, selling tokens and event items, buying more packs and repeating the process over and over.

And it doesn't matter how much someone spends on packs, that number is meaningless in this conversation. You could spend 100 million coin on packs... none of that coin disappears, but in opening those packs you might not get any high priced items, but you will surely get a few best lucks. In any event, coin isn't dissappearing from the economy, it's still being created in larger numbers than possibly every other source of coin creation combined.

10m is not a lot. Toons over Lv.100 have the chance to get 2m coin a day just off of BH2. There are TT drops worth more. I've made more off of buying and selling a single item in less than a week. I've made it in one day of double drops. I could make it in 15 days of leveling a new characters to 30. I could make it in ~30 1/2 hour nirvana runs. I could make it in about 10 days of buying and selling. The complaints here are so similar to the complaints on the veno forums concerning the cost of Hercs.

Ok, baseless statement. You're talking about an individual's prosperity or lack of it again. That doesn't matter. Watch the red spam and count. Whether or not it is you opening ALL of them or none of them, that coin is still being poured into the economy.

If DQ prices going down made grinding not profitable, then why do I still make a profit off BH runs even after wine share costs and repairs? BH SoT can be done unwined in about 10m more than avg unwined. The problem is people are too lazy to do more work than they have to. It's quicker for a squad to take down a mob than it is to ninja, yet what do most peopled do? It took me a long time to convince people that fb59 did not take 4 hours unwined, it didn't even take an hour at 7x, and it didn't take me more than 13m to get to a single boss there. People create rumors to suit their selfishness and laziness. They want tabbers to pay an unreasonable amount of coin so they can save some work and actually lose potential profit.

That was then this is now. You bet an unwined FB59 used to take 2-2.5 hours.

Profit from BH? Well, apparently you're not a melee class. My cost for running a BH is a little more than the DQ and items I would get from running it.

Lazy? The time saved by wining could easily make you far more money than saving 35k per person to actually wine it. Sure you can sit back, relax and enjoy it, but you speak of this so called profit from running BH. It's a joke. In the time I would save wining a SOT I could do a 2-2 or 2-3 run and make far more than you could just picking up npc food.

It's the same thing in this thread. Some people want things cheaper than they're worth. I don't like this company any more than anyone else I assure you. I will not however sit by idly and watch people complain about ridiculous things when there are legitimate gripes.

I like the economy and I'm not a cash shopper. The packs are one of the few things PWI is doing right.

Sorry, I view my points as being valid and I see yours as being quite silly.

tweakz wrote: »

On another note, the people that say when people hit 100 and complain they have nothing to do. -BS! Who's not going to do BH1 for the chance at 2m/50mirage or Mysterious Chips/ or 33 US? Who's not going to do BH2 for the 66 rep, the xp or the SP? Then there's Nirvana, FF, OHT gear quests, OHT dailies, all these new events, new ways to grind, the full range of FB's, rolling a new character to share uber gears with, etc. If anything there is MORE to do.

Actually it's 8 subs. You're not likely to get 2 ecstasy cards, 50 mirages is rather worthless. 50 mysterious chips are even more worthless.

Do you actually even do any instances? You sound so excited about Nirvana or Frost... have you really been there? I mean, after 400+ runs of Nirvana, and at least that many runs of 3-3, quite frankly, I'm sick of seeing the inside of them. FF? Yeah I'm actually considering doing solo runs so I can hit 103 faster, fun or exciting? Not quite. OHT quests and dailies... yes, I guess you haven't done enough of those as well.

Wow, I wish I could just lose myself in-game as much as you seem to. Some people just can't get enough and do the same boring repetitive BS every day and love it. Either you don't play enough or you play too much I think. So much enthusiasm for the same old thing.

tweakz wrote: »

cut

**** broseph, you just took retardation to a whole new level.

I'm a cash shopper, and I'm not unhappy with the game. I don't buy packs..

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

I sell gold though.

I don't wont them to make negative changes to the game .

No hyper removal, even though I don't use them anymore and as a veno(i quit psy), I grind traditionally. Hypers are there for other players. Lots of them like hypers, why take it away?

No removal or nerfs to BHs.

No nerfs

Stop asking for changes when you don't know how the devs will implement them.. I've seen some changes asked by players that devs in other games went through with and it only caused more problems and more player unhappiness.

It may sound unreasonable, but deal with what you have now, because to me it doesn't look so bad at all.

This is kind of depressing. Will I ever play a game where everyone else is happy with it like I am?

there wouldnt be no down side to removing the 10m bank note it would actually help

GO MICHAEL

now where did i put my pop corn

there is plenty of other **** tht the best luck token can be traded for i dont think they will lose tht much sales lol

dang now its just petty words was geting interesting tob:laugh

tweakz wrote: »

You eat **** and play with little boys in inappropriate ways. b:bye

Lets pretend. We have a closed economy of two people.

One person has 100,000,000 coins and wants to buy packs. Another person has 100 packs for sale for 100,000,000 coins. The person opens all the packs and only gets tokens. The amount of coin between them stays at 100,000,000 coins.

If the first person buys 100 packs from the other, it doesn't matter how much he pays for them. If they are 10 coins each or 100000 coins each the total amount of coin owned by them stays at 100,000,000 coins. Even if he uses real money to buy gold to buy 100 packs instead of buying them from the other person the amount of coin between them stays the same at 100,000,000 coins. The price of the pack does not matter at all.

If two Perfect Tokens of Best Luck come from those packs, that item can be NPC'd and will generate 10,000,000 coins so the total amount of coin between the two people is now 110,000,000 coins. Whether or not the person who opened the packs lost value on the items he received or not, there is still more money between them.

Do you get it yet?

/facepalm

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

the coin dissipates like **** in an elevator

tht totally wasnt meb:avoidb:sin

i agree with everything you have said by the way michael although half of it im kind of not smart enough to under standb:surrender

_Ghostz_ - Archosaur wrote: »

I sometimes which though that a new company would take over Perfect World, and start fresh with all the new classes, a group of Devs and GM that actually cared about the people playing their game and giving us the chance to play the game like it was meant to be played.

No Hypers, No get rich quick cash shop items, just plain fun. People merchanting and people having competitive world chats, people grinding and actually having to work to get 89+.

People actually having time to enjoy the many aspects of the game instead of wizzing by them in a mass level rush and not only that meeting the people along the way.

People having stories about the oh so many squads they were in, and the steady economy of a well built server....

And most of all having the chance to see the look on the players face, the look of utter delight in a game played with others around the world, and the company that made it all possible.

Is that too much to ask for?

No that was like a year or so ago dude.."back in the day"...i loved those days.Now its just plain **** easy to lvl..so easy my alts rarely do quest just bhing(wich should give coins as well with the exp) and cs..hell i dotn even mess with wq(to boring..give some damn coin or something for our time besides exp on that ****)

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.

Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.

Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.

Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.

Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.


Selling stuff to other players does not create coin. It simply moves it from one player's account to another's.

You may be great at math, and that's not difficult to be great at but you love to ignore factors. If I go and get a gold mat like Sorceress's Soul from TT: I'm producing or adding into the coin pool. If I sell it, the person that buys it instead of using Mysterious Chips (and myself) have just kept 5.5m coin from disappearing. If I NPC 2 Ecstasy Cards, that's 2m of coin into circulation. By your argument if I were to buy a mount and NPC it rather than sell to another player that I'd be adding coin into the economy and that's real bad math. You also fail in making any point when I'm simply showing that there's nothing wrong with the economy if someone like me who's admittedly bad at vending is doing fine. If someone like me can start a melee class and in a few days be 1m coin ahead without setting up a cat shop is doing fine. Also, look at what I'm mostly buying to sell: ammo. I suppose you'd rather people NPC it to "add" coin to the economy so archers can pay more for it.

Since the overall amount of coin owned across all players does not change, the price of gold does not change. Selling stuff to other players does not fundamentally alter the price of gold.

That's just ignorant. Less mounts for example in circulation drive up gold prices. Less DQ in circulation drives up DQ prices. If we NPC'd everything, the value of everything would be going up.

Pete and repeat were on a boat. One fell off, who was left? b:bye

tweakz wrote: »

You may be great at math, and that's not difficult to be great at but you love to ignore factors. If I go and get a gold mat like Sorceress's Soul from TT: I'm producing or adding into the coin pool. If I sell it, the person that buys it instead of using Mysterious Chips has just kept 5.5m coin from disappearing.

OMG you are freaking stupid.

If someone goes to the Mysterious Merchant and uses coin and chips to make a new mat, the coin and the chips disappear. It is a coin sink, making that coin unavailable to another person. That coin would be gone forever.

If you farm a gold mat and sell it to someone else, they are paying you with pre-existing currency. It did not come out of thin air, it was traded to you. Someone already owned that coin.

Apparently you're not great at math at all. Or logic. Or even common sense.

If I NPC 2 Ecstasy Cards, that's 2m of coin into circulation. By your argument if I were to buy a mount and NPC it rather than sell to another player that I'd be adding coin into the economy and that's real bad math.

If you NPC two ecstasy cards, you create 2,000,000 new coins into the economy. If you use that to buy a mount and then NPC the mount that 2,000,000 coins is still in circulation. It's not in your hands, but someone else has it. All that happens is that there is one less mount in the game. The amount of coins in your example has increased by 2,000,000 and nothing has decreased except for the availability of that particular mount, by one unit.

You also fail in making any point when I'm simply showing that there's nothing wrong with the economy if someone like me who's admittedly bad at vending is doing fine. If someone like me can start a melee class and in a few days be 1m coin ahead without setting up a cat shop is doing fine.

Grinding coin creates new coin that previously didn't exist. Using a catshop does not create new coins, it circulates existing coin.

Just because that coin is new to you does not make it new to the economy.

That's just ignorant. Less mounts for example in circulation drive up gold prices. Less DQ in circulation drives up DQ prices. If we NPC'd everything, the value of everything would be going up.

DQ is valued at a set price. It's listed on the item. A few are worth more to people who need them. If you NPC them, it creates new coin, if you sell them you are trading it for pre-existing coin that you did not create.

If you NPC everything, the amount of coin in circulation also rises unless the NPC value of the item is 0.

Take a basic economics class or something. Your logic is so horrible it's mindblowing.