Build

Considering 1:3:1 builds for archers only give you about 200 extra hp whilest weakening your offense, i really, really, really don't advise a hybrid build.

Moranine - Lost City wrote: »

Don't listen to this Fail PvE Archer, he obviously has no experience what so ever.

Be a hybrid up until 8x or so. I restated back to Pure Dex when I was 85 and honestly I really found no huge notice in my damage besides about 200 extra attack damage in PvE and about 100 difference in PvP.

So Hybrid until 80-85 which ever works for you. Cap your hybrid at about 50-60 vit, no more no less.

yea thats smart cuz you get around 700 more hp compared to pure and 100 extra dmg isnt really worth 700 hp

well im pretty new to this game so im not sure about the input i can give to this thread...

I basically go for a 1:4 str:dex build and every 2 or 3 levels or so i go for 1:1:3 str:vit:dex just to get some hp.

Im upto my mid 20's in level and its been so far so good. (Expect for a FB19 i did yday with a couple of my lev 20sh friends which went horribally wrong. {probably due to my noobishness})

The extra HP that the 3:1:1 build gives is so insignificant... Just go 4:1

This is strictly endgame speaking though. Considering that Perfect Citrines are fairly easy to come by these days the vit can be replaced by refines and gems

sridanu wrote: »

good point im going 4:1 from now on b:victory

ive settled my magic at 11 and vit at arnd 20. put up 1 str for every level

You did add magic to your build? Now that is a wrong move. Only magic classes (Psychic, Cleric, Wizard, Venomancer) should add magic (and put the most of it) in their build.
The only supplemental magic you could have would be from gears. As in added points, magic is no good for archers.

sridanu wrote: »

well i actually got it from a guide (i think). It said to keep it at 11 to just giv a slight mana boost. But dont you like need mana for skills ?

You'll come to learn that archers rarely use skills as time goes by. The (two) skills we do use for PvE can be easily compensated by keeping winged shell maxed to nullify their MP cost, pretty much.


That, plus the fact that we have the single larges MP draining skill in the game and, even with mag added, have a low MP pool means you'd rely on pots for mana if things ever came to the point where you ran out for whatever reason.

truekossy wrote: »

You'll come to learn that archers rarely use skills as time goes by. The (two) skills we do use for PvE can be easily compensated by keeping winged shell maxed to nullify their MP cost, pretty much.


That, plus the fact that we have the single larges MP draining skill in the game and, even with mag added, have a low MP pool means you'd rely on pots for mana if things ever came to the point where you ran out for whatever reason.

Wha? Do you mean that people mass use winged shell just to recover MP rather than its original purpose of shielding you? I don't even use this spell anymore because it eats up some valuable chi that could be used for frost arrow or aim low (and I am doing very fine about that) and yes, I do follow the original plan that was made from the creators, I do use skills. I don't spam pots either.

Want to know my secret? It's MP recovery gears, stuff I use for every of my chars, coupled with frequent meditation... And they are all doing well. It's a choice I never regretted, and the possible 'defense gimp' is not even noticeable. I'd prefer that than to be helplessly MP-less and at the mercy of a mob that caught up to you...

Besides that point, you are sadly very right, archers' MP gauge gets drained so fast and so easily it's mind-boggling (they are akin to melee classes in that respect). The heavy usage of potions (and to a lesser extent, having limited arrows you have to pay for -Just save them on other chars and transfer them- is probably a counter-factor to the fact that archers generally have a low repair bill.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

I would say go straight for pure dex. Restating is expensive and alot of non-cash shoppers can't afford it.

I would cap my vit at 55 because the intermediate reset scroll restats 50 points, so yeah.

So, pure dex or added vit? You sound a bit confusing there.
I'd say all dex is the way to go, at least for me.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wha? Do you mean that people mass use winged shell just to recover MP rather than its original purpose of shielding you? I don't even use this spell anymore because it eats up some valuable chi that could be used for frost arrow or aim low (and I am doing very fine about that) and yes, I do follow the original plan that was made from the creators, I do use skills. I don't spam pots either.

Want to know my secret? It's MP recovery gears, stuff I use for every of my chars, coupled with frequent meditation... And they are all doing well. It's a choice I never regretted, and the possible 'defense gimp' is not even noticeable. I'd prefer that than to be helplessly MP-less and at the mercy of a mob that caught up to you...

Using shell for MP is exactly what I mean. Of course, naturally, you don't cast it before every mob all the time as you'd eventually run out of chi that way. What you do is alternate. Namely, when you have full MP, you ignore shell and use frost + normals + knockback to build chi. Then once your MP starts to get low, you'd start using shell to recover it until you're low on chi or back to a high amount of MP. After that, you'd go back to saving shell as a shield. The result? Zero downtime, no pots used, and no need to worry about ither MP or chi while grinding. This gets even better when you get wind and the clouds since at that point, you'll be able to kill most mobs with just frost or knockback (and there will be some you won't even need to use skills on at all). This leads to maximum kill speed with minimum costs and downtime.

As for the MP recovery gears, that's nice and good and all, but that only has major effect outside combat. With what I mentioned earlier, however, you'd be spending most of your time in-combat. So in that case, a regen apoth or even using one of the many extra potions you'll find would keep you covered without the need to search for any specific type of gear. Besides, once you get past the 30s, the odds of a mob catching you without MP and without a pot you can use to regain most, if not all, of your MP is so low it's actually somewhat funny.

I think all these macros with this whole lot of spells+skills are just a waste of mana!

I have no problem killing mobs my level in 1-2 level above me oO, they never hit me and I am always on full mana and I never mediate.

Quickshoot->attack->(sometimes knockback arrow if I miss a shot)->dead

with increased life and incresed defense: Aim low->attack->knockback arrow->dead

and I always use my Winged Shell if it cools down. Never had any mana/chi problems, because the only skill I use is Quickshot and rarely aim low and knockback. So you have plenty of chi to spam Winged Shell and thus recover all the spent mana.

As I said, everything dies before even hitting me oO

Moranine - Lost City wrote: »

Don't listen to this Fail PvE Archer, he obviously has no experience what so ever.

I must say I love how you label every archer on a PvE server as fail. You're so cute.b:cute

And I wasn't aware that expressing my opinion made me fail either.

But hey, apparently it does. I had no idea. Thanks a bunch?

The latest PWI vedio spot light sheds some light into high level archer combat. Think its worth to take a look

http://pwi.perfectworld.com/news/?p=98551

shoot well i heard that magic was absolutley usless for an archer, but i already added 12 on...
b:chucklewhatever. is it really usless cuz it seems to make my lightning skills better...b:shocked

Demolij - Heavens Tear wrote: »

shoot well i heard that magic was absolutley usless for an archer, but i already added 12 on...
b:chucklewhatever. is it really usless cuz it seems to make my lightning skills better...b:shocked

Not even that. Your metal skills are based on your phys attack... which is based on dex.

Only way to boost your mag attacks cleric buffs, magic rings, or equipment that adds +mag attack.... and then it'll just be decoration on your stat menu because magic attack serves absolutely no use to archers.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

That actually doesn't work like you say. You can not alternate between using winged shell, and then proceed to using frost arrow and other skills to kill mobs hoping to not use any mp pots or worry about chi. If you want to grind effectively as an archer, you will have to spend mp pots and chi until you reach to the point at end game where you can kill mobs with 2-4 attacks with no use of skills. Until then (when you have perhaps demon quick shot to replace frost arrow, demon winged shell to actually have a significant mp gain, and a +5 bow at least, you will always feel as if you don't have enough mp or chi without any cleric buffs/using pots/apothecary items when grinding.

This is false. You aren't taking a few things into account that I'll go into detail on as this continues.

Winged Shell (lvl 10)
Requires 45 Chi and Mana 238
Recovers 64 MP every 3 seconds up to 6 times. (max amount of mp regained is 384 giving a net gain of 146)

Knockback Arrow (lv 1)
Mana 34.2

Frost Arrow (lvl 10)
Requires 25 chi and Mana 81.0

Now note that Winged Shell has a 30 second cooldown time. This means, assuming you're grinding efficiently on a 1v1 bases pre 89, you should be able to kill two monsters in the time it takes for the cooldown, so roughly 15 seconds per mob. Also, don't forget to take into account the fact that knockback gives 10 chi and can normally be used on each mob encountered.

Under the assumption that the archer is below lvl 89 and has not yet obtained sage/demon skills that can gain chi.

"use frost + normals + knockback to build chi"
Just killing mobs if you use frost arrow (cost 25 chi) each time will not guarantee you to regain all the chi that you need. You will only gain chi only if it takes you over 5 attacks to kill a mob since each attack gives 5 chi after using frost arrow. But if it takes you over 5 arrows to kill a 'normal' mob, then there is something wrong with your build or weapon/refines.

The first flaw with this assumption is that it goes under the assumption that all mobs will be normal. This is a good stance to have for making a theory, but a very bad stance if you're trying to prove something doesn't work in practice. With the existance of weak mobs, sac assults, increased defense, and increased life, the amount of chi you'll actually lose will vary a great deal. No sane archer would need to use frost + knockbacks on a weak/sac assault mob that's on-level. On the other hand, if the mob has increased Life or Defense, they may choose to open with aim low or even stun, both of which would cause a dent in their MP/chi that's larger than the norm. Plus there will also be time spent picking up drops (during which you'll most likely be out of combat mode and thus, getting a chance to recover a small portion of MP which will help in the long run especially if you have gear with +regen) and, at times, moving towards new mobs.

"Then once your MP starts to get low, you'd start using shell to recover it until you're low on chi "
The net gain each time you use winged shell (lvl 10) is 146 mp. If you then proceed to kill a mob using frost+knockback, that means so far you've only managed to gained 31 mp since using winged shell, and perhaps with no net gain of chi what so ever after using frost arrow. You will need to land at least 9 attacks beyond that 5 hits to kill each mob to have a net gain of 45 chi to use shell. If you proceed with killing more mobs with that combo "frost + normals + knockback" you will eventually lose that net mp gain from winged shell.

And, in context with your previous statement, an archer should take an average of 5 attacks for a regular mob, correct? Let's assume you start at full chi but with just enough MP for winged shell. On the first mob, instead of using frost (no MP), you'd use normal attacks, then knockback, followed by more normals to finish it. On average, during the mid-levels where refines don't really come into play (since if your weapon is refined enough, you don't need frost or knockback to kill mobs before they get to you) that would be 4 to 5 normals and knockback for a chi gain of 30-35 per combo, assuming you don't miss. If you feel that it would be more efficient to use frost, the accepted combo is normally frost, 3 normals, knockback, and another normal or two to finish. That's a chi gain of 5 to 10 (or a loss of 0) depending on how many attacks are needed after knockback.

Now then, if your goal is to grind without consuming excess MP and chi, you would use the first method and simply wait until shell cools down to pick up loot while going through multiple mobs. If you didn't mind slowing things down a bit, you would use the second method and pick up loot after each kill which would give shell time to recharge. You would lose chi in the long run, but you would also be gaining MP and could therefore, stop using shell once your MP reached a peak. At that point, you would start building chi instead while slowly losing MP. Plus, whether or not you chose to use frost at every mob (read: choosing when to save chi and MP) would be up to your discretion.

"This gets even better when you get wind and the clouds since at that point, you'll be able to kill most mobs with just frost or knockback"
This pretty much supports what I said, killing mobs with those two skills will either drain you of mp or chi and offers no net gain, especially if you can kill 'fast' you will certainly not gain any chi back what so ever.

And this... is where you wind up miscalculating. If you can kill most obs with just frost or knockback, you can easily just... you know.... stick to using knockback alone and generate more than enough chi to cover winged shell as it takes 4 combos with knockback alone to use up the mana gained by shell, but it only takes 2 combos at most with knockback alone to gain enough chi to recast shell.

In fact, at that point in time you could probably use just normals and thus save chi and MP for increased life/defense monsters, at which point you would then use shell to recover the MP lost from that mob while at the same time, gaining extra chi per mob until you're back to full chi and MP.

(and there will be some you won't even need to use skills on at all). This leads to maximum kill speed with minimum costs and downtime.
This would apply to mobs that are sacrificial assaults or weak mobs.

It would also apply to those who have a well refined/sharded weapon or managed to get lucky with -interval gear. For example, a fresh level 69 archer with bracers of blood moon (or crafted/dropped sleeves with -interval) and wind and the clouds will wind up able to kill most regular mobs with just normal attacks during their 70s as a pure dex. In fact, they'll be able to treat increased defense/life mobs as they used to treat normal mobs by actually using frost and knockback on them. The weak and sacrificial assault mobs? Those would take perhaps 3 attacks assuming none of them crit.

lower lvs as archer blow.. i think any class to be honest


Once ya get better skills or more helpful skills like knockback or stun.. grinding start getting easy

Once ya hit 6x+ grinding is easy

4-5x kinda sux cus most of the mobs are meele