Random argo on bosses..

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  • Teny - Heavens Tear
    Teny - Heavens Tear Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Seal isn't that big of a issue tbh, if the cleric is decent it can take a few hits while the aggro goes back to the tank, if it's between first DD and second DD it's not that much of a problem, considering seal can be purified, guess you just need a fast cleric
    [SIGPIC]http://i56.tinypic.com/j8fvcn.png[/SIGPIC]
  • LordCross - Dreamweaver
    LordCross - Dreamweaver Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    that seal has silence too cant attack and cant use skill so its really fkd up when they agro cleric boom dead b:angry
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    LordCross - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    that seal has silence too cant attack and cant use skill so its really fkd up when they agro cleric boom dead b:angry

    If your cleric for 1 hit... unless it's the Tyrant... I suggest you get another...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    warlos wrote: »
    10-15mins run = 3-4 BM/Archer]with 5.0 Aps with lunar claw/TT100 fist +5 and above refined

    There r other class in game, and most people with 5.0 Aps don't like to run with them cos it take 60min or more complete nirvana.


    This.

    Teny - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Seal isn't that big of a issue tbh, if the cleric is decent it can take a few hits while the aggro goes back to the tank, if it's between first DD and second DD it's not that much of a problem, considering seal can be purified, guess you just need a fast cleric


    Tyrant.








    Of course people dont see a big difference if they're going with 5 APS parties.


    But the number of people with 5aps represent a sliver fraction of the number of people who do go to nirvana without 5aps.


    Typically a run for them takes 30-50 minutes. Add in the seals and you've got yourself over an hour run - exspecially for someone like tyrant.



    To make matters worse you can still get nothing from the boxes. Uncannies arent guaranteed.



    My point is, given the new seal, it should be guaranteed that an uncanny drops for each boss.



    Its not neccessarily for the people who have 5 aps, its for those who dont.



    And yeah.... If your 2nd best DD'er so happens to be an archer and they get the random aggro, you could end up with tyrant charging up his AOE in the dead-center of the chamber. Good luck with that one...
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    angellicdeity wrote: »
    This.





    Tyrant.








    Of course people dont see a big difference if they're going with 5 APS parties.


    But the number of people with 5aps represent a sliver fraction of the number of people who do go to nirvana without 5aps.


    Typically a run for them takes 30-50 minutes. Add in the seals and you've got yourself over an hour run - exspecially for someone like tyrant.



    To make matters worse you can still get nothing from the boxes. Uncannies arent guaranteed.



    My point is, given the new seal, it should be guaranteed that an uncanny drops for each boss.



    Its not neccessarily for the people who have 5 aps, its for those who dont.



    And yeah.... If your 2nd best DD'er so happens to be an archer and they get the random aggro, you could end up with tyrant charging up his AOE in the dead-center of the chamber. Good luck with that one...

    It's not just the 2nd best DDs. b:surrender Maybe I'm just lucky but bosses like goin after my cleric. b:angry Stupid Tyrant 3 hitted me through plume shell b:angry Chased me half the hall too
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brishi - Dreamweaver
    Brishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    mm, high lvl dungeons shall be hard. So you cant win every time u do it.
    Whats the point to play if you never lose or die?
  • Linker_ - Heavens Tear
    Linker_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Shall be hard?... go to 3-1 on lvl90 pls.... like solo.... **** easy... and meet lunar on lvl80 please :)
  • warlos
    warlos Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Asterelle and I have been on Nirvana runs where the average boss time was about 15 seconds per boss (excluding the ones that can't be amped).

    With enough DD the random aggro shouldn't really be that big of an issue. Although I suppose this depends on how often bosses random aggro.


    U and Asterelle r 5.0 APS i wonder if u have any barb or low dd in ur squad or would willing to take one
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    warlos wrote: »
    U and Asterelle r 5.0 APS i wonder if u have any barb or low dd in ur squad or would willing to take one

    And this matters how? But yeah I've done runs with both of them with mediocre DDs if that makes you happy and lets you sleep at night.

    And I don't get all the QQ about it being "harder".

    I've done a (crappy) run yesterday with a few friends (no special DDs, one mediocre fister). Just about every boss decided to aggro me at one point or another and make sweet sweet love to me up close and personal. I didn't die once and none of my refines are higher than +5. Shell, kite, AD, someone will get aggro sooner or later.

    lrn2play as it were.

    So no, nirvana isn't "hard" at all. It just became twice as long and twice as annoying with the stupid patch due to bosses spamming aoe seal every 30 secs.

    My prob with this is that seeing how I'm farming nirvana gear for myself, the entire process just became twice as long and twice as annoying for those of us who still don't have their nirvana sets.

    Suffice it to say I will not be doing any more runs unless there's at least 3 dam good fisters in the squad or something. At the very least not until the market prices start reflecting the longer runs. Spending an hour in Nirvana getting sealed every 30 seconds for 300k at the end is not my idea of time well spent. Heck, grinding OVS or running TT is more profitable.
    b:dirty
  • Shevanel - Sanctuary
    Shevanel - Sanctuary Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    The constant seal is annoying as hell.
    Gets quite unbearable, though I do like that it ensures people don't afk macro, and takes notice of the squad and the instance.

    I do whole heartedly agree that rather than "Chance at 100 chi, mirage, flaw shard or uncanny" the chests should have a chance at 1-2 uncanny always.

    It's all good and well for those A; charging zhen or B; being or being in a squad with a 5aps character to do the runs fast, but A lot of people want nirvana armour/weapons, and Im all for working towards getting it (Have been farming lunar glade for mats too, rather than justbuying) but at this rate, it will take me months and months to get the endgame gear that I desire in a game which is becoming less longtime play than it already is.

    Im not asking to take out the seal or the random agro (Why do so many people say "Argo" btw?) as that does make things a alittle more interesting, but due to the increase in time per run, that delays me and my non 5aps friends from getting the gear we want.

    The more people who get their gear, the less unbalanced the game becomes, therefore ensuring more people on a level playing field, therefore PK and TW (a good % of players endgame desires) become more fun, more active people.

    Less people in instances - more people in open world.

    EDIT: Missed some stuff I was gonna say

    You barbs.. Find some actual good friends who will take you along regardless of your class.
    I have some good friends in game, some being barbs and I wouldn't hesitate to bring them.

    It's about having friends who you can help, and in turn they can help you.
    Koiz - omfg my life is now complete
    Shevanel - haha oh?
    ~~~
    Koiz - i took this massive dump
    Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
    Shevanel - hahahahaha
    Shevanel - haha
    Shevanel - Oh wow

    Certain levels of Boredom..
    ThaMessiah: I'd rather endlessly wack it till I shot a load that hits my ceiling than do a 3-2
  • Brishi - Dreamweaver
    Brishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    How do this affect a veno that solo bosses?
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Brishi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    How do this affect a veno that solo bosses?

    It's only in Nirvana so I think it won't make much difference.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Clavier - Dreamweaver
    Clavier - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Archers use bows in instances? Since when?

    +1 b:chuckle
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    SugarPrinces - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i think its more like the tank will have to pay closer attention to make sure hes holding aggro, when the boss switches targets, get aggro back fast or the whole party wipes..

    this will get people to pay more attention this time, good. This will make people think more about strategy this way
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    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

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    HA > LA > AR... GG

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  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    this will get people to pay more attention this time, good. This will make people think more about strategy this way

    If you've ever done nirvana you'd know this change was half-assed.



    The developers just tacked on the ability of the first boss to every boss in nirvana without some thought (just go's to show their level of idiocy).


    Tyrant:

    - His massive AOE
    - He hits hard.

    Now add in random sealing, and random aggro. Even the best geared clerics have a hard time surviving 1 hit.



    Dictator:

    - AOE's very frequently when his HP is less than 1M.
    - Spawns dark-wings which must be killed in no less than 2-3 seconds before they go off.

    Now add in random sealing which does occur when the dark wings spawn.

    The seal takes long enough that by the time you do kill him its too late and he's ready to blow up dealing 5K damage.




    Soverign:

    - Stuns for as long as he now seals.
    - Spawns mobs which can armor-break anyone.


    So when he seals and stuns you and goes after your cleric - your cleric is pretty much a goner. Its not like your DD will be able to cast genie skills or aggro the boss back during this time.




    Asura Dictator:

    - Spawns poisionous snakes.

    Add in a seal with that and suddenly your ticking 2K+ HP every second while your cleric is unable to do anything about it (being sealed).



    As for arbiter, stuns and random aggro work well to increase the difficulty so this is fair.


    Pheonix - random aggro causes him to move too frequently. Exspecially in a room full of fire...





    The Vanished Ancestor:

    - Spawns random elemental mob bombs.

    Now that he random aggro's I've seen him chase down the chest-runner causing a party wipe.












    The new modifications were done stupidly creating soo many problems. There is a difference between making the instance harder but fair, and making the instance stupidly impossible should certain events happen to occur at the same time.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Now add in random sealing, and random aggro. Even the best geared clerics have a hard time surviving 1 hit.
    Ever heard of plume shell? OR guardian light? I'd assume by 100 the clerics who come with you would know what that is. On plume shell alone my 4.6 hp no hp buff could take 3 hits, plenty of time for the tank to run to boss & smack it.
    - AOE's very frequently when his HP is less than 1M.
    - Spawns dark-wings which must be killed in no less than 2-3 seconds before they go off.

    Now add in random sealing which does occur when the dark wings spawn.

    The seal takes long enough that by the time you do kill him its too late and he's ready to blow up dealing 5K damage
    Ehem... the seal is like every 30 secs if I'm not mistaken. Absolute domain much? Lightening Chase or any other 1 target atk genie skill if by chance you are sealed when the mob spawn?

    Add in a seal with that and suddenly your ticking 2K+ HP every second while your cleric is unable to do anything about it (being sealed).
    Again absolute domain or ToP then 3 spark or puri.... You can still use genie skills even when sealed...

    The Vanished Ancestor:

    - Spawns random elemental mob bombs.

    Now that he random aggro's I've seen him chase down the chest-runner causing a party wipe.
    Your chest runner can't survive 1 hit from the boss...? Or the cleric can't heal them in time?



    Seriously are you lvl 5 or smth? What kind of turds are you running with?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    If Nirvana is really this bad, I'm not sure if I wanna try it out. Average geared people won't do well in there, that's for sure.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If Nirvana is really this bad, I'm not sure if I wanna try it out. Average geared people won't do well in there, that's for sure.

    Rofl no it's not bad. The poster above needs to stop running with random squads where nobody know wth is going on & who does what.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Rofl no it's not bad. The poster above needs to stop running with random squads where nobody know wth is going on & who does what.

    Wait, how does that sound so familiar?

    Pretty sure that my runs will be like that 99% of the time. I have done very few TT runs but each and every one has been fail. That says a lot...
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    b:surrender

    prob is that guy and his friends hypered in FC too much


    and now instead of figuring out how to deal with 'new' nirvana, they QQ that -omg- now it takes some effort to finish it

    lol..


    ppl like him make 3-3 runs to last 4 hours. yet another toon on perm sleep, poison, earth dot, dying from aoe or random aggro


    it s end game. what did you expect? =/ you could learn to play finally
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

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  • drjiggle
    drjiggle Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    angellicdeity wrote: »
    The Vanished Ancestor:

    - Spawns random elemental mob bombs.

    Now that he random aggro's I've seen him chase down the chest-runner causing a party wipe.

    Haven't been in there yet. What happens if he seals the chest runner? Do you need a backup runner?
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wait, how does that sound so familiar?

    Pretty sure that my runs will be like that 99% of the time. I have done very few TT runs but each and every one has been fail. That says a lot...

    :o You seem to have been posting for a while. You haven't made any friends to run instances with? Or if you see any decent players add em to friend's list to invite to other squads later.

    Is your avi accurate? b:chuckle I got a bm your bh lvl b:laugh But I'm no good to run with I do stupid stuff & like to steal agro & die b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warlos
    warlos Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And this matters how? But yeah I've done runs with both of them with mediocre DDs if that makes you happy and lets you sleep at night.

    And I don't get all the QQ about it being "harder".

    I've done a (crappy) run yesterday with a few friends (no special DDs, one mediocre fister). Just about every boss decided to aggro me at one point or another and make sweet sweet love to me up close and personal. I didn't die once and none of my refines are higher than +5. Shell, kite, AD, someone will get aggro sooner or later.

    lrn2play as it were.

    So no, nirvana isn't "hard" at all. It just became twice as long and twice as annoying with the stupid patch due to bosses spamming aoe seal every 30 secs.

    My prob with this is that seeing how I'm farming nirvana gear for myself, the entire process just became twice as long and twice as annoying for those of us who still don't have their nirvana sets.

    Suffice it to say I will not be doing any more runs unless there's at least 3 dam good fisters in the squad or something. At the very least not until the market prices start reflecting the longer runs. Spending an hour in Nirvana getting sealed every 30 seconds for 300k at the end is not my idea of time well spent. Heck, grinding OVS or running TT is more profitable.

    Why nirvana made hard?

    they made it easy at one point, reducing circle spawn time why hard again, just for few super DD who finish run in 10-15mins think about others majority players still complete nirvana in 45-60mins


    Drop in nirvana?

    most common 4-5 uncanny sometime 1 rap rare 2 rap drops and each nirvana gear need 250 crystal. At present people spend enough time farming for each gear crystal(Except cash shoper who can afford getting it faster)
    Seem like PWI gone greedy want Cash shopper to spend more real money on crystal


    Why not make other instant boss hard
    TT,FCC,Lunar should also have all boss random argo and seal.


    END POINT

    All feature in game is tough at beginning people Play or spend more(Real money to build char faster) and make it easy.Instead of bring in new feature PWI make present feature hard again and want people to spend more? this is insane

    I CAN JUST SAY THE PEOPLE WHO MODERATE THE GAME NEED USE SOME BRAIN b:laugh (For which they been paid as salary) AND WORK ON BRING OUT NEW IDEA NOT TO **** PRESENT ONE(When it running fine), EFFECTING MAJORITY OF PLAYERS
  • Shevanel - Sanctuary
    Shevanel - Sanctuary Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    There it is again. That damn word.
    "Argo"

    /:
    Koiz - omfg my life is now complete
    Shevanel - haha oh?
    ~~~
    Koiz - i took this massive dump
    Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
    Shevanel - hahahahaha
    Shevanel - haha
    Shevanel - Oh wow

    Certain levels of Boredom..
    ThaMessiah: I'd rather endlessly wack it till I shot a load that hits my ceiling than do a 3-2
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There it is again. That damn word.
    "Argo"

    /:

    Argo Argo Argo Argo Argo
    ARGOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    b:victory

    Sorry. Studying too much is boring.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • warlos
    warlos Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There it is again. That damn word.
    "Argo"

    /:

    opps my bad K Miss Perfect b:laugh
  • Aquilez - Sanctuary
    Aquilez - Sanctuary Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    lmao

    almost felt sorrry for that hyper nob squad..



    why random aggro and seals would ever be problem for 100lvl people? you encounter that all the time in 2-3, 3-2 and 3-3

    i dont get it D=


    and about uncanny price: it could go up since nirvana became harder. nobody force ppl to sell it for 600k.

    prob that many farmers are dumb and desperate for coins so it will stay on 600k prolly

    the only one who realy sucks is demonic tyrant, keep runing around soon before start casting that aoe, i went with a low DD squad there and cleric had died 2 times before we toke 10% of boss hp
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ever heard of plume shell? OR guardian light? I'd assume by 100 the clerics who come with you would know what that is. On plume shell alone my 4.6 hp no hp buff could take 3 hits, plenty of time for the tank to run to boss & smack it.


    Ehem... the seal is like every 30 secs if I'm not mistaken. Absolute domain much? Lightening Chase or any other 1 target atk genie skill if by chance you are sealed when the mob spawn?



    Again absolute domain or ToP then 3 spark or puri.... You can still use genie skills even when sealed...



    Your chest runner can't survive 1 hit from the boss...? Or the cleric can't heal them in time?



    Seriously are you lvl 5 or smth? What kind of turds are you running with?


    I'm pretty sure when the boss runs out to the chest runner while he's at the chest your cleric is in no position to heal them.


    And no I'm not running with "turds" at all.



    I run equally with a bunch of 5 aps claw users and others in the guild who get left out because they so happen to be the unfavorable wizzard, Barbarian, and miscellaneous magic classes with no interval.



    And yes if you want to spam absolute domain fine, but you realize its on cooldown and the seal occurs much too frequently for 1 person to hold it down reliably. Maybe you've just done not enough runs now to ever come accross these scenarios. Furthermore Absolute domain is a heavy in terms of Stamina, and your tanks will be too busy spamming alpha male.


    In the case of the demonic soverign, when he stuns you cannot cast genie skills. Similarly your cleric cannot cast plume shell or any other skills they have. Although charms do work if you want to blow off a quarter to half a bronze charm on every nirvana run be my guest.


    Some people use Tangling mire, some people may not even have absolute domain on their genies either.


    You make the false assumption of assuming everyones PvE genie will come with absolute domain.


    And yeah, I'm sure 100 clerics are fully ready to plume shell if their standing right beside the people dd'ing in melee range.


    Anything less than that and you'll soon find a tyrant who will charge up his AOE right in the middle of the chamber as he's running to hit the cleric.





    You come off as one of those people who havent done the new instance enough to fully appeciate how half-assed it is.


    Maybe instead of assuming that the squads I go with are random, you go do more nirvana runs.


    As it is, I have 0 keys. Every day I do 4 runs.



    Whilst the time it takes on the 5 aps squads only increased by maybe a factor of 10 minutes, the time it takes on the non-5aps squads have certainly jumped up by well over 25 minutes - from the near hour-long run it would normally take.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    angellicdeity wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure when the boss runs out to the chest runner while he's at the chest your cleric is in no position to heal them.
    what is keeping cleric from chasing boss and heal chest runner?

    angellicdeity wrote: »
    And yeah, I'm sure 100 clerics are fully ready to plume shell if their standing right beside the people dd'ing in melee range.
    why cleric would ever want o be in melee range of random aggro boss?

    what is keeping cleric from being 'perm' p.shelled and time it with seal?

    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Anything less than that and you'll soon find a tyrant who will charge up his AOE right in the middle of the chamber as he's running to hit the cleric.
    why would that cleric want to lure the boss into middle of room? o0 cant he kite to sides of room on random aggro, and run to middle only if there is countdown AoE? (or is Tryant running around with this AoE now???)



    those ideas are first that came ino my mind. and i didnt include any apo or genie tricks yet
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  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    i play a wizard usually
    but a friend let me play his old cleric to go nirvana (he has a 5aps archer now)

    so we tried the "new" nirvana yesterday

    claw-barb, bm, archer, stabbi fish (archer tanking, highest aps+dps)


    me - bad laag (2,5k ping) and more or less a total cleric noob
    only a few deaths that go on my account (and i had to search for the supid demon revive for a long time)


    its best to stack buffs and simply take more people
    2 clerics would help a lot, or cleric hp 6k+ with barb buff

    when bosses randomly aggro the cleric, a good squad usually gets aggro back before he is touched >_>

    what remains more or less useless is wizard and psy, (~veno ?)






    downside, i cant run the cleric at low mana use anymore with this situation
    no time for mana-recovery-self-buffing ;/

    stacking seals+ other creepy stuff -> close to death/wipe - AD saves
    i like potato

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