Aggro control

Lessein - Sanctuary
Lessein - Sanctuary Posts: 152 Arc User
edited August 2010 in Barbarian
It's been said a million times over, but here we go.
Barbs need better aggro skills, flesh ream, devour & roar (as they are now) are inadequate. Heres why:

I just did my BH59 for the day.
The squad was not bad: 1 barb, 2 clerics, 1 BM, 1 Psychic, 1 Assassin.

My barb is Lv 74, has a maxed flesh ream, a strong devour & a maxed roar for the level, I have a jones' equipped, all sharded +2 TT armour with +3 TT70 Axes, as well as strong rings for my level and a Lv7 Alphamale on my genie. I also have about 10.5k HP.

The assassin was lv72, with a jones' and REQ lv69 Leg Daggers (unrefined but sharded), also with up to date rings and legendary Armour.

At the bosses I always started out with full chi(2.99sparks)
I spammed (literally) every chance I could (with a continuous beastial rage) flesh ream & devour. I also used alphamale at every possible opportunity.

The assassin sparked, and skill spammed every chance he got. I asked him not to, he continued.

I held aggro probably 90% of the time, but the assassin still managed to steal aggro despite my persistent use of my aggro skills.

Now I know the replies I'm going to get are "dw the sin was stupid, he should learn to not steal aggro." I know this, I know this is the case, the sin should not be spamming skills & sparking when acting as a DD in a squad - so as to avoid stealing aggro.

But I think, a class that is SUPPOSED to be a tanking class, should not be able to have aggro taken off them, but a damage dealer that cannot control their dmg output. The skills of a barb need to be modified to be able to cope with the all new issue of the sparking sin, flesh ream might have been sufficient to cope with Blademasters, and an in-the-know wizard. But If I am spamming all my aggro skills, as well as an ADDED genie aggro skill, and STILL a DD can take aggro (either on purpose or not), then it really makes me think... Is barb ACTUALLY a tanking class? surely a tanking class should be given sufficient tools to be able to undergo the job appropriately.

I think the solution is clear, barbs existing skills either need to be modified or new skills have to be added.
Double aggro on flesh ream would be a start.
Lower chi costs for devour.
A smaller cooldown on roar.
Another aoe aggro skill with more of a flesh-ream effect than roar has.

A good new skill would be one that reset everyone's aggro EXCEPT yours, that would be a very good skill to use at fairly regular intervals.
Or even a skill that caused the target to ignore others for a period of time would be good.

In any case, it's making me want to log on my sin rather than my barb. And that's not good, because I find playing barb really fun. I just don't find that they are sufficient at keeping aggro from certain classes (well that dont make an effort to not steal aggro!)
Post edited by Lessein - Sanctuary on


  • dvdalpha
    dvdalpha Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    The squad needs to cooperate in order to be successful. I'm not sure any class should be modified so that the party can be successful despite the uncooperative play from the other members of the squad. If a DD is stealing aggro, then the problem is that the DD isn't playing cooperatively.

    If you make the aggro change that you've suggested, then a good tank + a good healer can succeed despite the most bone headed maneuvers by the DD in the party. I think that would ruin the balance of game play if you didn't have to worry about DD's spamming too much damage at the wrong moment.

    Every member of the party should share the risk of accidentally wiping the party if they **** up.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roar/alpha male resets aggro so if you spam them you're making it easier for the Sin to steal aggro
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Cirax - Dreamweaver
    Cirax - Dreamweaver Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Aggro skills are definitely not up to par with the changes made to the game: event gear, jones blessing, -interval gear. I find that any BH69 and under can be tanked with a barb without much trouble, unless DD's are as you described. BH79 and higher basically have no use for a barb though - it's faster for DD's to spark all they want and just have cleric use BB =|. No wonder there are less and less barbs reaching endgame, especially the tank build. I never keep track on what the devs are doing, but I'd hope they will make some changes to the barbarian's aggro skills (doubtful though).

    Though as a side note, if DD's are just sparking left and right in any BH69 or under, let them tank the boss and see how they do. I know it sounds mean, but on my alts, I've seen countless times where DD's are completely selfish in trying to do as much damage as possible and stealing aggro from a barb because it makes their e-peen look bigger. Guess what, they died, and I didn't bother to res them until the boss was almost dead. In between then, everything was fine w/o the DD spamming damage so I see no reason to include them in the boss fight if they're juggling aggro.
    Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.

    ~Albert Einstien
  • Lessein - Sanctuary
    Lessein - Sanctuary Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    roar does, i didnt spam that, like i said.
    I was not aware that it's the case with alphamale, can anyone confirm?
  • XylolyX - Heavens Tear
    XylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I have to say this: If a 'Sin isn't going to control damage, and wants to continually spark and steal aggro...let him have it. Go humanoid and just DD. Once the Sin is dead, go back into tiger and resume normal tanking.

    Should we barbs have a bit better edge on the aggro? Sure. But more important is that the squad succeed. If that means removing rings and holding back a be it.

    I went on a bh39 with my lvl85 archer, tanking was a lvl70 barb with average gear. Clearing mobs I didn't care who had aggro, but when killing bosses I'd remove rings and spam Take Aim, letting it charge for full 4-5 seconds. It would have been easy to steal aggro, but what would that prove, other than I'm a jack-hole?

    Point is, the game is made for squads. The squad needs to cooperate to get things done. If the 'Sin can't tank, then he should hold back. If he can tank, then by all means let him go all out and spark until his hearts content. If he dies, leave him on the floor and move on.
  • OMarvelous - Sanctuary
    OMarvelous - Sanctuary Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yes I'm pretty sure AM resets aggro as well. I only use it....if I lose control of a buncha mobs and roar is on CD.
  • Ulfhednar - Heavens Tear
    Ulfhednar - Heavens Tear Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roar/alpha male resets aggro so if you spam them you're making it easier for the Sin to steal aggro

    ^ that roar and alpha male both reset aggro you are literally giving him the aggro especially if you do it while they spark.
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Corollary: The only time you want to use either Roar or Alpha is if they've already stolen aggro. That will reset it back to you, which you can usually keep if you immediately FR afterwards. Also, in the case of a phys-attack DD like a sin, Devour can actually do more harm than good, since it's reducing P.Def which allows the DD to cause more damage.

    Instead, try swapping to human every so often and tossing out Firestorm. Untamed Wrath as well, when you learn it (79). Although the aggro for both of these is minimal at best, it's aggro that won't aid your DDs in stealing from you.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    if your barb lost aggro in bh 59 they where a crappy barbb:bye
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • HippiePanda - Sanctuary
    HippiePanda - Sanctuary Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Nothing new to me.
    When a Assassin or a fist/claw BM with upgraded APS on gear spam spark like no tomorrow, you will lose always aggro even though you spam spark as well. Its because of the attack speed. They deal more damage in the same time and does rarely miss the target.

    1. Blood Bath activated
    2. Flesh Ream, Spark, Devour, Beastial Rage / Spark again
    3. Roar is pretty useless in boss tanking cause it resets aggro to zero. After 2-3 seconds you will lose aggro again. Just a waste of time. Damage counts.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I agree with "let them have it". Many clerics don't like aggro pong, and barbs aren't always the most suitable tank. What did I do for the DD's that wanted to ignore the Bishops in lower level FF runs? - I let 'em have the aggro of the main boss and only killed bishops. They can either die, learn how much they suck as a tank or become the tank. The fail LA wiz on HT says "i'm a tank!". -lol
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • __Tanker__ - Raging Tide
    __Tanker__ - Raging Tide Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    i did have problem with aggro in fc ocenia big pull, a wizard alway took my aggro after i use roar and alpha male 2 times , bm and sin never took it , no veno in squad, idk what to do to hold it from wizard any advise ?
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yes I'm pretty sure AM resets aggro as well. I only use it....if I lose control of a buncha mobs and roar is on CD.

    Yeah, AM does reset it.

    To Oceania pull, I tend to bestial rage->invoke&AM->surf->roar->sunder->humanoid & arma. If you won`t hold aggro, tell wizzie to take of rings =). Wizzies who oneshot take aggro just are nasty thing, but they tend to know how they live.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Cybetron - Harshlands
    Cybetron - Harshlands Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Whatever the others said is true. Alpha Male is a standby skill, use it only when someone takes aggro, especially cleric. Other than our normal barrage of aggro skills, namely FR and devour (to be avoided if there is a sin or fist bm), try gaining a spark or two and using arma or sunder with zerk axes; but make sure you've a good cleric with you. The additional damage from them is always good. You can use the new blessings for your advantage. I am pretty sure that at your level, nothing deals more damage than a zerked arma, so try squeezing a few in your run.

    If gaining chi is a problem then save it till the boss' health goes down by 20% then arma once, similarly repeat at 40% and so on. You will see that the squishy DDs will be sweating to take aggro from you.

    Many of the barbs have complained about our aggro capabilities, its best that we try finding an alternative than blaming the devs b:chuckle

    The best alternative is to let the DD take aggro and then reset it with AM and use arma and FR.
  • CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear
    CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Oh its nice being lvl92, having 300str and being demon barb. Still to lose aggro and get flamed at times for letting the high DD's die. Still its not bad to cast a Roar when someone (specially sins) dont listen to chill on the constant 3spark hitting, specially when i dont have chi.

    Still is fun tanking boss after they are dead..... besides if they want to tank, they should say it at the start.

    Wonder if demon Flesh Ream will have some better effect... seeing as it has faster cooldown....

    Also, there are some crappy barbs, Last night, I was on my 73 archer with bloodmoon bracers and a -0.5 interval +3 fists. yes i do less damage with that then my -1.0interval sling+3 . Still he was lvl 84, tanking kong, i was hitting boss with fists from when he was at 95%. all i did was 2spark and hit when boss was at 25%. poof after 5sec, i died.

    So yeah, dont spark or hell dont even hit when barb is not using flesh ream. So im glad i was using fists and not my sling lol
  • SaintToadElf - Archosaur
    SaintToadElf - Archosaur Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    That can be a challenge. Making things so it's impossible to steal aggro from a barb would make things easier. That's true. But I think it would eliminate a good challenge: getting people in squad to understand their role. Sins are DDs, they do lots of damage really fast. That sin failed at his challenge: do lots of damage but not enough to steal aggro. He was spam sparking? Was he trying to steal aggro? You were heroic in trying to protect him and not letting him die due to his stupidity. It's challenging in Real Life too, getting people to understand their roles. A quick fix here removes an opportunity to develop those skills.

    Please check out the Plant People thread in Suggestion Box. I'd like your feedback on a new tank class I'm suggesting.