High End Veno stats

Citrus - Dreamweaver
Citrus - Dreamweaver Posts: 1 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Venomancer
Hello,

I'm only level 73 currently but I was particularly following the arcane build, and I was wondering how to go once I achieve 300+ magic which I have currently, I've built up my vit to near 100 with gear, now what?

From my understanding, I'm uncertain if there is a diminishing return for over 300+ magic skill, but in essence, it's useless anything over 300? As the higher level item requirements I believe are around that.

I would love to hear from some higher level venos, what their stats are, and maybe an explanation of why you started dumping some points into that specific area?


Thanks in advance!!
Post edited by Citrus - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Kineni - Sanctuary
    Kineni - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Just figured out how to change my avatar, the above post is me as well, sorry for any confusion!
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If you'd like to go arcane untill "endgame" then just keep adding to magic. With vit around 100 I don't think you need any more (though HP+, HP shards work better than Vit points). Of course it's your choice, your playstyle :)
    I add only to magic at these levels and to str when I need it for armour/weapon. Though I haven't changed any of my armour since lvl 80 so all my points went to magic but I'm happy with the damage I deal.

    Also you could change build (like going HA or something) if you feel like doing something different for a chance b:chuckle
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  • Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think that as an end game goal, a veno should have atleast 75 vit 45-50 str 5 dex an all the rest to magic(raw stats). Depending on gear choices or say Love up an down....and assuming that you a regular arcane veno.
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    you need 54 (i think) STR by lvl 90 for robe/weapon. if you dont want to add to magic anymore for now, then maybe you can think about putting vit to 100 (clean, without armors). 300 magic is a lot, but once you get to 90s, its not anymore. so, you can continue to put to magic once you feel your vit is good enough.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vixter (101 Heavy Veno) ~ TT farmer
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Welll..... Venomancer skills don't get MUCH better with more magic, they do get a bit better. And any beter is good.

    100 vit is a LOT though. I'm not sure what benefit it would give you over, say, 50 ish.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Citrus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    From my understanding, I'm uncertain if there is a diminishing return for over 300+ magic skill, but in essence, it's useless anything over 300?
    Strictly speaking, no, there are no diminishing returns for adding more magic, using the proper definition of diminishing returns. Your magic attack scales as (1 + mag/100), so all other things being equal, an extra point of magic will always increase your magic attack by the same amount whether you have 100 mag or 500 mag.

    However, many people seem to think of some weird percentage-based diminishing returns. Where if you have $5 and I give you $1, somehow that is a bigger gain than if you have $500 and I give you $1. If you think of it in those terms, then yes, you will reach a certain point where the marginal benefit from putting 1 more point in mag will be less dramatic than (but not less than) putting that point into something like vit.

    Where exactly the balance lies is a source of endless debate and quite often mud-slinging. As you've correctly surmised, the mag requirement is basically 3x your level. So to use a level 100 magic weapon, you need 300 mag. This represents the minimum mag you should have unless you're trying a highly atypical build. Similarly, the str requirement to wear arcane armor is (level/2)+4. So 54 str at level 100.

    Beyond that, it's entirely personal preference. Different people swear by different things. The polls I've seen on builds say that arcane builds are most popular, but not hugely so. About half the veno players run heavy and light venos - they're not relegated to mere curiosities like heavy clerics or wizards. Among the arcane builds, IMHO the most popular is 4 mag, 1 vit, 1 str. So by level 100 that would give you about 400 mag, 50 vit, 50 str without equipment. That's totally based on what I hear about on these forums though.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Welll..... Venomancer skills don't get MUCH better with more magic, they do get a bit better. And any beter is good.

    100 vit is a LOT though. I'm not sure what benefit it would give you over, say, 50 ish.

    That's a good point there if you are going arcane untill endgame. Venomancers can't compare with Wizards and among th things they have to do in squads they are also DDs so even that bit will help you deal more damage.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »
    you need 54 (i think) STR by lvl 90 for robe/weapon. if you dont want to add to magic anymore for now, then maybe you can think about putting vit to 100 (clean, without armors). 300 magic is a lot, but once you get to 90s, its not anymore. so, you can continue to put to magic once you feel your vit is good enough.

    My 3 event capes all have at least 6 Str, and I think the rank weapons only require 48 Str. Some could get by with 42 or less. There's of course -6%ch ornaments, and armors with +str on them also.

    300 mag is not a lot. I normally operate with 550mag, but can go up to 567 for occasions. I'll be getting 25 more when I upgrade my tome. I don't see why people would want to waste stats on vit when we're at the point of end game gears that can be imbued with Genesis Stones, Garnet Gems, Citrine Gems, etc and be heavily refined with high yields.

    The only thing in PvE I feel I could use more survivability for is 100s Stand EX, and I'm getting close to being capable.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Kineni - Sanctuary
    Kineni - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Thank you all for the replies and suggestions, I'll definately be upping my magic a bit in this case!
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think the main thing is to set a goal with your vit, for those venos who choose to stat it. What do you want to accomplish in terms of HP? I wanted 5k HP buffed, and I achieved that 5 levels ago, and so I'm spending 5 points a level in magic now. As Solandri said, magic over 300 is not useless at all, though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kineni - Sanctuary
    Kineni - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm pretty content with my hp right now, I'm currently at work but I believe with my equipment is around 3000 unbuffed, kind of squishy. I don't have alot of time to play and I mainly solo what time I do have to play. I do have a herc so i don't really ever get hit, and if I do we venos have a fair amount of skills to counteract AOEs/damage. I won't be PvPing on this char probably ever, so this is stricly PVE.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    if you dont pvp or tw there is no reason to use vit but if you do you might consider going min mag and rest vit coz you are not a DD, you support your team with debuffs and have to go in front and take hits. and there is nothing a vit veno cant do while pure mag can do
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    if you dont pvp or tw there is no reason to use vit but if you do you might consider going min mag and rest vit coz you are not a DD, you support your team with debuffs and have to go in front and take hits. and there is nothing a vit veno cant do while pure mag can do

    How long can you keep someone stunlocked? Now how long does it take you to kill them? If a 5aps reaches you: you're dead. We ARE DDs! Every DD out there has debuffs including Clerics. It takes about a -38%ch pure mag wiz with a ~+10 L99 weapon to out DD me without my pet. Range DDs either use a tank or kill before mob reaches them. -That's us in the higher levels when pets no longer hold aggro. If you like to play the punching bag instead of the swift killer, be my guest.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If this works you can look at my stats an the end game gear im going for, although your play style an budget may be different. I currently most of the gear except im still only about half way to rank 7. There are more extreme gears an builds but this one seemed right for me.
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3466b811b00c3515
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    How long can you keep someone stunlocked? Now how long does it take you to kill them? If a 5aps reaches you: you're dead. We ARE DDs! Every DD out there has debuffs including Clerics. It takes about a -38%ch pure mag wiz with a ~+10 L99 weapon to out DD me without my pet. Range DDs either use a tank or kill before mob reaches them. -That's us in the higher levels when pets no longer hold aggro. If you like to play the punching bag instead of the swift killer, be my guest.
    i had to guess that you guys dont pvp on those servers but there is TW for example. if 5aps reach me (lol fist bm in tw) i use domain then ironguard pots XD. that cleric would be dumb if he does that. stunlock? dude thats bm's job not mine plus a serious tw veno would consider replacing pounce with strong/protect. purge/amplify/crush vigor/myriad rainbow... those skills kinda keep you in fox form most of the time except when you try to do nova on a group or bramble your team. outside tw is also about assisting but on 1vs1 some targets always goes down fast.
    about mobs/bosses, i dont even care coz its not me killing stuff its the 5aps bm's or those +10-11 nirvana bows... all i have to do is to throw some debuffs. nirvana is probably the most visited instance now, i dont have to do much just some purge amp myriad and some sort of DD but doing full nirvana in 10min or less kinda tells me that im not the DD there
  • Kineni - Sanctuary
    Kineni - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If this works you can look at my stats an the end game gear im going for, although your play style an budget may be different. I currently most of the gear except im still only about half way to rank 7. There are more extreme gears an builds but this one seemed right for me.
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3466b811b00c3515

    Awesome, this is definately something to look forward to/reference to, I definately need more -channeling! Thank you for the post!
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    stunlock? dude thats bm's job not mine

    hint: tweakz picks what he thinks the veno's job is based on how much he thinks it's going to rile you up to see it said.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If this works you can look at my stats an the end game gear im going for, although your play style an budget may be different. I currently most of the gear except im still only about half way to rank 7. There are more extreme gears an builds but this one seemed right for me.
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3466b811b00c3515
    rank 8 and only g8 shards? save yourself the trouble and sell that tome that worth like 4x lunar rings
    and rank 6 is enough imo http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5dbf086fb44cbc7c
  • Adeacia - Heavens Tear
    Adeacia - Heavens Tear Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    My goal was to reach 5k hp unbuffed. I did that already so I started throwing all my points into magic.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Adeacia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    My goal was to reach 5k hp unbuffed. I did that already so I started throwing all my points into magic.

    Easily obtained without wasting stat points on vit.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Adeacia - Heavens Tear
    Adeacia - Heavens Tear Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    Easily obtained without wasting stat points on vit.

    I want it without gear.b:laugh

    Ok no, thats excessive. I do have 3k hp without equipment on now and see no reason to go higher than that.

    I also have no interest in spending billions on my gear. I don't need +8 gear and grade 12 stones.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Adeacia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I want it without gear.b:laugh

    Ok no, thats excessive. I do have 3k hp without equipment on now and see no reason to go higher than that.

    I also have no interest in spending billions on my gear. I don't need +8 gear and grade 12 stones.

    I said "Easily Obtained". I've made ~12.5m off a single event. BH100 (1) sometimes pays 2m, sometimes at least 500k in Mirages, or 8 Ultimate subs. You can literally make enough to buy genesis stones in a short day. In addition to this, I kept track of how much coin I made per hour during double drops and it was a tad over 1m for 1 hour (at npc prices). -That's not including the -6%ch ring I got as a drop. I agree that you don't need +8 gear or grade 12 stones. You also don't need to waste stat points on vit gimping your dps and rate of progress.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Adeacia - Heavens Tear
    Adeacia - Heavens Tear Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    My dps is just fine. I steal agro from my pets enough as it is. I have always wanted to keep my damage low. I don't need super high damage, nor do I want it.

    My magic stat is 400 right now with my gear.
  • MindCrime - Harshlands
    MindCrime - Harshlands Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    I said "Easily Obtained". I've made ~12.5m off a single event. BH100 (1) sometimes pays 2m, sometimes at least 500k in Mirages, or 8 Ultimate subs. You can literally make enough to buy genesis stones in a short day. In addition to this, I kept track of how much coin I made per hour during double drops and it was a tad over 1m for 1 hour (at npc prices). -That's not including the -6%ch ring I got as a drop. I agree that you don't need +8 gear or grade 12 stones. You also don't need to waste stat points on vit gimping your dps and rate of progress.

    Being on a PvE server you wouldn't understand how difficult it is to place decently enough to get packs that have a CHANCE of rewarding excitment or ecstasy cards.

    The Nein event on PvP servers are a PK-fest. Enough said about that.

    Venos aren't the richest class in game any longer, as once thought.

    HH (TT) mats don't sell for nearly enough now.

    At this point in the game (end game for me), I refuse to waste all my time in instances.

    That said, I am an arcane veno with added vit and sharded with garnets for pdef.

    I am not full vit. I added vit for TW and PvP survivability.

    I still hit plenty hard and have come across no situation where I got my bum kicked cos I wasn't doing enough magic damage. Usually it's because I am arcane and don't have enough pdef.
  • Silvia_Xenth - Lost City
    Silvia_Xenth - Lost City Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    since when do pve veno have the upper hand on forum being on easy mode untill end game just so they can tell ppl how easy it is.

    pve server is purely mob and some TW
    while pvp server we dont have such a lexury as such ppl put vit untill they either get to higher lv and can refine there gear while still looking out for rpkers soooo plz dont tell me i need 2 listen 2 a easy mode veno how we should play our class cos u alredy failed.


    wana we pro join pvp server untill then ur vote is invalid

    cos pwi is not only mob hunting its also surving pkers and i am sure u dont knew sht about it
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    5k hp isnt hard to get with refines and some pieces of gear with +vit. if you want more then its harder to get with cheap items and base vit.

    about saying that every veno should go pure mag coz we can be DD... sure even a barb can go min dex/vit and all str and out DD any bm. every cleric can go pure mag and be like a mini-wizard. every class, except real DD's, can go pure and completely forget what their job is in a real challenging situation like pvp/tw's

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