Ini Editing (general discussion, not a report)
juem
Posts: 2 Arc User
Lately there is a lot of talk about ini editing of PW character profiles going on. Most of the threads about it got closed, because they were about a specific case which have no place on this forum. This post here is a general one, hoping that a discussion about it is ok as long as it doesn't involve names etc.
Ok, first things first - I am freely admitting to be an ini editor, too. One of those evil hackers disturbing the PW community by making illegal characters. Every single one of my three characters have been ini edited by some degree. You know what's funny? All of them are Level 50 or above and nobody ever noticed. You know why? Because they look just like any other character out there. The alterations I've made are so minor that probably even a GM standing next to me wouldn't notice them. You might ask why I bothered with ini editing in the first place then? That's easily enough answered: Because I didn't have the slightest clue that PWI would consider that a bad thing (only read about it recently here). For those of you who've never seen an *.ini file before: Those are plain text files, containing key/value pairings that can be read and edited by a human using a cheap text editor (like Notepad). In information technology, they are mainly used to configure applications - for example, operating systems. Since they are self-explaining, the entire point of ini files is to be edited, every person having half a clue about IT can attest to that. If you don't want files to be edited, you'd store them in binary format, which is a lot more effective to store and extremely hard to edit unless you know the file structure. So, the first myth to dissolve about ini-editing is that ini editing is the same as hacking. It's not. It has nothing to do with "hacking" at all. It is a very, very different thing from digging your way into the (binary) game client and make alterations to that. To a person being used to IT, editing text-based config files is about as natural as reading a newspaper is for you. To me, it looked like just another way to further customize my character.
So, after all those threads and reports popping up here lately, it seems that doing that made me a rule violator, though - particularly after the GMs confirmed that ini editing is not allowed and people should report players doing it. Wow...
In the end this post is directed to the GMs to ask them to reconsider their stance towards it. Because I do not think tossing an ini editor into the same pot with botters, (true) hackers and cheaters is entirely fair. And here is why:
1, With one possible exception, we're talking about looks here, and nothing that would give anyone any advantage in the game. The exception are the "stick" characters that are hard to detect and harder to target and might be considered an exploit for PvP (so, yes, ban those!). But giving a Barbarian's fur a red color is certainly not an exploit and neither are huge **** (just to name two examples that popped up here, lately). A ini-edited char might or might not look ridiculous, that's all. Which brings me to the next point:
2. You can make very ugly and very out of place looking chars using the in-game char creation screen. So if the main point of banning ini-editing is to prevent characters from disturbing other people's gameplay, I must say you'd need to disable 80% of the existing allowed values of the in-game editor, too. To make the irony complete, several winning entries for the "Design a char contest" are looking in a way that probably would earn them 10 reports for ini-editing per hour, despite they are completely legal. Eyeballs as large as footballs? Legal! Ears that would break at the first gust of wind? Legal! Lips that you could use as a sofa? Legal! But red spikes on a Barbarian! Oh noes!!! Using a hairdo for elves that's available only for humans in the in-game editor (for no obvious reason)?: Get the firing squad now!
The GMs are saying "Play the game how it's meant to be played!". Fair enough, but this still doesn't explain why making a char that looks like they're an immigrant from Mars would fall within the "meaning" of the game and a few red dots on a Barbarian's fur would not. The borderline of the "true meaning" of the game is looking rather arbitrary to me, at least. I have no problems with rules (as I said, I wasn't even aware that I was breaking one, until now), but shouldn't we sometimes question if our rules are actually making good sense? And alter them, if they don't?
3. As shown above, ini-editing is something completely different from altering your game client. So here goes the last possible reason for banning ini-editing through the window. You really don't have to ban ini-editing because it might be viewed as opening a door wide for allowing hacking the game client. It's totally not comparable to (real) hacking in any way. The borderline is still clear and obvious. I am sorry, but it's ridiculous saying that people who'd edit ini files would go **** the game client next. That's like saying if you'd let people get away with jaywalking, they would start murdering little children next.
So here goes the plea: Dear GMs, please call off the witch hunt. Because that's honestly what seems to be happening lately. Make a rule saying "Go edit that stuff if you must, but don't make stick figures". That would be a more satisfying approach for everyone involved, instead of spending valuable time in support to enforce a rule that doesn't make too much sense in the first place.
Thanks for reading.
Ok, first things first - I am freely admitting to be an ini editor, too. One of those evil hackers disturbing the PW community by making illegal characters. Every single one of my three characters have been ini edited by some degree. You know what's funny? All of them are Level 50 or above and nobody ever noticed. You know why? Because they look just like any other character out there. The alterations I've made are so minor that probably even a GM standing next to me wouldn't notice them. You might ask why I bothered with ini editing in the first place then? That's easily enough answered: Because I didn't have the slightest clue that PWI would consider that a bad thing (only read about it recently here). For those of you who've never seen an *.ini file before: Those are plain text files, containing key/value pairings that can be read and edited by a human using a cheap text editor (like Notepad). In information technology, they are mainly used to configure applications - for example, operating systems. Since they are self-explaining, the entire point of ini files is to be edited, every person having half a clue about IT can attest to that. If you don't want files to be edited, you'd store them in binary format, which is a lot more effective to store and extremely hard to edit unless you know the file structure. So, the first myth to dissolve about ini-editing is that ini editing is the same as hacking. It's not. It has nothing to do with "hacking" at all. It is a very, very different thing from digging your way into the (binary) game client and make alterations to that. To a person being used to IT, editing text-based config files is about as natural as reading a newspaper is for you. To me, it looked like just another way to further customize my character.
So, after all those threads and reports popping up here lately, it seems that doing that made me a rule violator, though - particularly after the GMs confirmed that ini editing is not allowed and people should report players doing it. Wow...
In the end this post is directed to the GMs to ask them to reconsider their stance towards it. Because I do not think tossing an ini editor into the same pot with botters, (true) hackers and cheaters is entirely fair. And here is why:
1, With one possible exception, we're talking about looks here, and nothing that would give anyone any advantage in the game. The exception are the "stick" characters that are hard to detect and harder to target and might be considered an exploit for PvP (so, yes, ban those!). But giving a Barbarian's fur a red color is certainly not an exploit and neither are huge **** (just to name two examples that popped up here, lately). A ini-edited char might or might not look ridiculous, that's all. Which brings me to the next point:
2. You can make very ugly and very out of place looking chars using the in-game char creation screen. So if the main point of banning ini-editing is to prevent characters from disturbing other people's gameplay, I must say you'd need to disable 80% of the existing allowed values of the in-game editor, too. To make the irony complete, several winning entries for the "Design a char contest" are looking in a way that probably would earn them 10 reports for ini-editing per hour, despite they are completely legal. Eyeballs as large as footballs? Legal! Ears that would break at the first gust of wind? Legal! Lips that you could use as a sofa? Legal! But red spikes on a Barbarian! Oh noes!!! Using a hairdo for elves that's available only for humans in the in-game editor (for no obvious reason)?: Get the firing squad now!
The GMs are saying "Play the game how it's meant to be played!". Fair enough, but this still doesn't explain why making a char that looks like they're an immigrant from Mars would fall within the "meaning" of the game and a few red dots on a Barbarian's fur would not. The borderline of the "true meaning" of the game is looking rather arbitrary to me, at least. I have no problems with rules (as I said, I wasn't even aware that I was breaking one, until now), but shouldn't we sometimes question if our rules are actually making good sense? And alter them, if they don't?
3. As shown above, ini-editing is something completely different from altering your game client. So here goes the last possible reason for banning ini-editing through the window. You really don't have to ban ini-editing because it might be viewed as opening a door wide for allowing hacking the game client. It's totally not comparable to (real) hacking in any way. The borderline is still clear and obvious. I am sorry, but it's ridiculous saying that people who'd edit ini files would go **** the game client next. That's like saying if you'd let people get away with jaywalking, they would start murdering little children next.
So here goes the plea: Dear GMs, please call off the witch hunt. Because that's honestly what seems to be happening lately. Make a rule saying "Go edit that stuff if you must, but don't make stick figures". That would be a more satisfying approach for everyone involved, instead of spending valuable time in support to enforce a rule that doesn't make too much sense in the first place.
Thanks for reading.
Post edited by juem on
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Comments
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1, With one possible exception, we're talking about looks here, and nothing that would give anyone any advantage in the game. The exception are the "stick" characters that are hard to detect and harder to target and might be considered an exploit for PvP (so, yes, ban those!). But giving a Barbarian's fur a red color is certainly not an exploit and neither are huge **** (just to name two examples that popped up here, lately). A ini-edited char might or might not look ridiculous, that's all. Which brings me to the next point:
Fat chars also fall into this category. Your appearance goes beyond the click box of the char, so someone may click on the char but click on a part that is spilling over the click box, so you would not select that char.
The problem with allowing even minor characters editing is : where to put the limit? Allow some alterations, and players banned for altering too much will argue to no end because their editing where only slightly over the limit acceptable, and blablabla...
So I think it makes the job easier for GMs to simply forbid it. Otherwise, they would have to take a closer look at all the modified chars to see if they fir in the acceptable limits or not. And I think their time would be better spent doing more meaningful task than that...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh0 -
Well the answer to this riddle is probably because they don't want people to edit their characters for free. You are given a 2 day limit to edit your character using the character editor and after that you need a makeover scroll. Now I am sure with the ini you can edit your character whenever you like, which takes money out of there pockets. If everybody decided to just edit using the ini they would lose at least a bit of money. However until recently I thought any ini changes you made would only effect your game and not others as you are the only one with that specific file but I guess I am wrong. :S
Anyway it is to bad that we cant, I almost did at one point cause I come from a game that people mod the hell out of and editing the ini for that game is very use full. XD
In the end I may be completely wrong but is really the only reason I can think. :S0 -
Juem, you do make a very intelligent and well written response to a topic that was discussed to death prior to this version ever being released.
However, you conclude your post asking them to make a ruling which in effect, asks them to change a ruling they already made. They have said no. Period, end of discussion. It's been talked about from every view point, both in rant and in logic. They still made their decision.
As for people that played other games that were allowed to do this or that to the .ini files, good for those games. Most every game out there lacks the player customization that is available through "normal" game interface, so one could almost argue that those games "needed" players to edit just to have some variety.
With the exception of the barbarians, there is almost no limit of variety of customization. True, as has been presented by some of the more "imaginative" .ini edits, there are ideas that can not be achieved through the normal interface.
But the rules remain. The game and it's affiliated programs are not ours to do with as we please. It says so in the ToS on just about every game I have ever been exposed to. Even if we were to purchase a copy of a game, we are purchasing the right to play the game they packaged for us, not the right to alter it as we see fit.
I mean, the player customization is one of the strongest attractions this game has. Why undermine it by saying "but I can't do this or that with it"? It's their program, and they don't want us messing with it. If you want to have the right to mess with it, go make your own program. Then nobody can tell you what to do.
Whether we like it or not (and notice I have not stated my opinion as to whether I think we should be able to or not anywhere in here), it's not up to us. They made the rule after all of the arguements were read, and it is up to us to decide if we want to continue to design characters with these rules, or face the consequences by not following the rules.
It's not about whether we should or should not be able to. It's whether people are able to follow the rules laid out by the staff.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well the answer to this riddle is probably because they don't want people to edit their characters for free. You are given a 2 day limit to edit your character using the character editor and after that you need a makeover scroll. Now I am sure with the ini you can edit your character whenever you like, which takes money out of there pockets. If everybody decided to just edit using the ini they would lose at least a bit of money. However until recently I thought any ini changes you made would only effect your game and not others as you are the only one with that specific file but I guess I am wrong. :S
Anyway it is to bad that we cant, I almost did at one point cause I come from a game that people mod the hell out of and editing the ini for that game is very use full. XD
In the end I may be completely wrong but is really the only reason I can think. :S
NO.. it doesnt change any time. Still only at creation or after using a scroll.
@OP:
There was a lot of similar posts to yours at the begning of the server and I even sent a letter to the support team about the rule enforcers being WAY to strict and missing the point of the rules in the 1st place.
I totally agree that making a "legal non edited" char that looks like a cross between a camel and a toad should be just as subject to bannnig as making a veno with a pink tail or w/e. It stinks of double standards and stupidity.
Sadly I doubt things will change, either they are to busy with things like getting their other 2 games up and running and maybe fixing bugs with PW OR they just don't give a damn and want to take the easy way out.0 -
Official Perfect World Entertainment Policy :
Do NOT edit or alter .ini files. Do not edit or alter any game files other than those instructions provided by Tech Support or Ticket Department. (see : Surtr, Shazzbot)
</end official statement>
Editing internal game files is a big problem in any game; there's no bright line between a change that merely looks cool, and a change that quickly turns into a ****. Moreover, the GMs have better things to do than debate how oversized a panda must be before it's a problem. There are also some license agreement reasons to prefer that players stay out of those files.
The goal is not to punish players for trying to express their individuality (well, excluding the character with the quintuple-Ds), but to protect the game and the users of the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well then, I guess the reason why others can see your changes to the .ini file is because you are not changing the characters model skin, but the model itself.
Now, in any RTS game if you edited a unit model and you tried to play against another player that other player would see a pink cube, that on every side says "model not found consult the error report." However, if you edited a model's skin and applied it, every unit that uses that particular skin that you modified will have that skin, be it yours or your opponents, while your opponent would see no changes as they do not have the edited image files. No sync errors, no problems. As the server looked for changes to the game data, not the image files.
So, since editing the character via the .ini files changes the model parameter, then what about having a system where you have access to and can replace your character's model skin, since then it would not effect the game for anyone except you?
If modding the game visually in such a fashion is deemed, can be allowed.
Otherwise, no point arguing.0 -
Juem you're right, it's not hacking. Not even close.
But it's still against the rules. It doesn't need to be anything other than that. They said don't do, and you did. You broke the rules.
Their reasons for wanted you not to edit the .ini files could be many different things. They might be reasonable reasons, they might be selfish reasons. But the bottom line fact is, what you did was downright rude if nothing else. The developers of Perfect World Entertainment get paid to spend hours producing this game for us.
You are not.0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »
As for people that played other games that were allowed to do this or that to the .ini files, good for those games. Most every game out there lacks the player customization that is available through "normal" game interface, so one could almost argue that those games "needed" players to edit just to have some variety.
I would appreciate it next time if you would lose the attitude when you direct your thoughts at something I said.
The game I am referring to is not even an mmo. And the game was intended to be modded from the start.
However.... I still vote yes to ini edits, just because it would be more interesting. I will not do something they don't wish me to do though.0 -
I will like to have official software to help "legal" ini file editing to help the character model designing. It's up to the programmer though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
News Project Fox in [][]http://pwifox.blogspot.com[][] Santa Claus is a lie.
12/17 2008 PerfectFox Index (Heavens Tear) : 1 gold = 113558.91~114972.420 -
TheTot - Heavens Tear wrote: »But it's still against the rules. It doesn't need to be anything other than that. They said don't do, and you did. You broke the rules.
Yes, I did. But you must have missed the part of my posting where I said that back then I didn't know that what I was doing was considered bad. I've actually read the part of their ToS concerning User Behavior. There isn't anything in there that would directly apply to what I did, really. At least not in the way how I interpreted them. Surprisingly enough, most rules can be interpreted one way or the other, it's why we have judges in real life.
So let's see: Hacks are banned - but we are in agreement that ini editing is not hacking. Exploiting is banned too, but since an exploit is something that would give me an advantage over others, what I did is not an exploit either. Neither was I disrupting the game for others, since all my edited chars look at lot more normal than some of the winners of "Design a Character". See where I am coming from? Yes, perhaps "Don't edit anything, not even config files looking like they're meant to be edited!" is hidden somewhere in the ToS, I am not even ruling that out. Perhaps in a part that no normal player would ever read, because those ToS agreements are all ridiculously long and written using legal mumbo jumbo normal humans aren't able to comprehend anyway (which would open up a debate about a far bigger problem than ini editing, called "lawyers", but that's out of the scope of this thread).
And yes, it might have been mentioned somewhere on the forum even before I made those characters, but forgive me for not reading all of the older posts before making a char here.
If you'd ask me if I'd do ini editing knowing that it is against their rules, the answer is no, I would not. And now that I know, I will not do it again in the future, rest assured. In contrast to what you think of me, I do actually respect the rules. Probably you are more perfect than me and would never break any rule, knowingly or not. Probably you can recite your country's entire code of law from memory. Sorry, I can't do that, I am just a mere mortal, who honestly thought that what I did wouldn't be a problem.Their reasons for wanted you not to edit the .ini files could be many different things. They might be reasonable reasons, they might be selfish reasons. But the bottom line fact is, what you did was downright rude if nothing else. The developers of Perfect World Entertainment get paid to spend hours producing this game for us.
You are not.
They can make any rule they want, I never questioned that. All I did what asking if an adjustment of one of their rules would be in the realm of possibility and I delivered reasons for doing so. I am not quite sure why this could be considered rude. I also do not know what me not being paid for PW development has anything to do with that.
@gattsuru: Thanks for your answer, particularly the last line. I guess that's as far as an official statement can go at this time.0 -
heh really imagine TW with bunch of oversized pandas and tiny clerics in the middle of them...will be hard to win
and really why bother GMs with this?0 -
Official Perfect World Entertainment Policy :
Do NOT edit or alter .ini files. Do not edit or alter any game files other than those instructions provided by Tech Support or Ticket Department. (see : Surtr, Shazzbot)
</end official statement>
Editing internal game files is a big problem in any game; there's no bright line between a change that merely looks cool, and a change that quickly turns into a ****. Moreover, the GMs have better things to do than debate how oversized a panda must be before it's a problem. There are also some license agreement reasons to prefer that players stay out of those files.
The goal is not to punish players for trying to express their individuality (well, excluding the character with the quintuple-Ds), but to protect the game and the users of the game.
I partially disagree with you on one point. Most of the games including MMO's allow some .ini modifying, ussualy like performance and graphics tweaking and those modified .ini files are often even shared on official forums and even recommended by support stuff.
They are allowed as long as they don't modify in any way how the game works and do not modify binary files. Its also why most of parameters undesired to change are kept in binary files and not ini files.
Everyone with half brain could edit ini file and most ppl do it.
Why to play game with 30 fps when you can get double of it, why to play game with ugly graphics, when you have graphic card able to manage it much better.
Someone can complain that if developers want to make it available they would give those changes into game config, but...
They don't know what future HW and drivers will allow.
Not mentioning that there are often hunderets possible settings and in ini file they are easily repeatable when you get better setting from someone who tried it before you, or when you decide to reinstall.
Savegames and ini/cfg files are what heavy players usualy store for future use.0 -
I would appreciate it next time if you would lose the attitude when you direct your thoughts at something I said.
The game I am referring to is not even an mmo. And the game was intended to be modded from the start.
However.... I still vote yes to ini edits, just because it would be more interesting. I will not do something they don't wish me to do though.
Honestly, scridon, what you quoted from my post was not isolating you out in particular, rather, the group of arguements from numerous other players on several versions. This is a topic that has been discussed long before this version was ever announced to the public, so you are not the first, nor most likely the last, player to use another game as a "but they allow it over here" arguement.
Really, you do need to quit taking things so personally. If you get that worked up over criticism, then perhaps stop posting on forums. Compared to many, I am tame.
And for the record, I don't care whether you like the tone of my post or not. You don't pay my bills, and until I become indebted to you, your opinion of me means less than nothing. That my friend, is attitude.
Peace.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Official Perfect World Entertainment Policy :
Do NOT edit or alter .ini files. Do not edit or alter any game files other than those instructions provided by Tech Support or Ticket Department. (see : Surtr, Shazzbot)
</end official statement>
PWI should change their official agreement.
According to the listed message you may not edit or alter any .ini files.
However, it does not say you may not create these files **** from the beginning.
There is no way to track whether this file is created used PWI save files or using some kind of notepad.
Either way, if PWI doesn't like these hacks, build in a value limiter. With it's regular updates this shouldn't be a problem and prevents further ini editing.
Why spend time banning ini-**** accounts while you don't even have to by taking an half hour of the programmers?
But here is the worst part of all.
I wanted to figure out what EXACTLY is stated by perfect world international crew.
All I found is Terms of Service. (Just 1 link, 1 policy)
The real issue is this entry: (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
According to the most dictionairies, exploiting means taking advantage of, or doing something unethicly.
However there is one problem with unethicly. unethicly is a word that is relative for every person. What seems 'inhumane' for the one, can be not even touching for the other.
Considering this is still a company, I'd say we are going along the PWI version of the word unethicly.
Now tell me PWI, what is unethical to you?
My guess would be any form of file creation or manipulation in this case that manipulates the game in any way. But how many people do actually realise this?
Now the taking advantage part is totally relative to the unethical part. Some people do think that this is ethical enough to pass. Clearly it is since most of them aren't even noticable. Yet they did it. But what I don't get is, how is changing the size of arms or **** an advantage? I don't recall getting extra strength or extra agility?
So someone noted that taking it too far will make it a **** so you aren't selectable? This would be an exploit. The character is not selectable because the limits are not really set. Set one and it's solved. Except for the oversize or undersize, ini editing isn't any cheat at all since it clearly gives no advantages since everyone can do it.(Unless you don't know how, but if that matters you are saying high level characters are cheating on the new low level players who never touched the game.)
Also I like to note that this ini editing or creating isn't any third party content, since it's completely recognizable by the system as it's own and is no add-on in any way.
Now for the absolute problem.
There is nothing noted about third party programs influencing the game.
According to PWI terms of service (which also notes ingame rules), it's ok to use bots and whatsoever. Everyone can download a bot if they know how to, so it's no advantage. Next to that what a bot does, can be done by a human player aswell. Difference is a bot goes on and on and on and a human simply can't or won't. Except for few of course.
Now this is what I get from the terms of service, the only agreement I could find on the entire site, google and in-game. (links during first screen for example).
I strongly suggest changing the terms of service or adding a new one on top of it.
If there is any terms of service especially for the game, start with making it way more noticable. If google can't find it, who can?
To make a long story short. Change terms of service, next update get a limiter.
For those who currently have ini-edited/created character files, there is nothing to it. They aren't banned cuz it isn't noticable. Hence the above story.
This is my 'short' thought on this. cheers!
PS: I didn't felt like taking out all grammer typo's so sorry if you find one.
PPS: I necro'd old topic I didn't notice >_> Sorry my bad.
Third Edit: Any person who got banned and claiming not to do anything wrong, it doesn't matter. Since 2008 the rules clearly state that PWI reserves ALL rights to close, remove, or restrict or even alter any account whether there is no reason, there is any reason whether it's valid or not. If they think you get annoying, they have all the rights to ban you and there is nothing you can't opose them for.0 -
Cool! An almost 2 year old necro.
But this is funny. It shows just how stupid the company was even back then. Cheers.0 -
Necro'd thread has been necro'd...
Yet I actually just want to say kudos to the necromancer because it's possibly the most intelligent necro I have seen in a very, very long time.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
lol whats this all about?0
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Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Necro'd thread has been necro'd...
Yet I actually just want to say kudos to the necromancer because it's possibly the most intelligent necro I have seen in a very, very long time.
That is seconded by yours truly, word for word.Maintenance time. Please choose a line:
- When is it over? OMG I need my fix!! *super spazzing*
- Fix the damn bugs, dammit! I'm so angry! I'll quit!!
- New codes out there? I like free stuff~ *wink*
- When will we get new content? QQ
- Will we get sales? I got a ton of gold to spend.
- I'm bored, I'll create a useless thread to annoy Opkorock.
- *Incessant poking on Sweetiebot* Fun~0 -
Jarid - Lost City wrote: »PWI should change their official agreement.
According to the listed message you may not edit or alter any .ini files.
However, it does not say you may not create these files **** from the beginning.
There is no way to track whether this file is created used PWI save files or using some kind of notepad.
Either way, if PWI doesn't like these hacks, build in a value limiter. With it's regular updates this shouldn't be a problem and prevents further ini editing.
Why spend time banning ini-**** accounts while you don't even have to by taking an half hour of the programmers?
But here is the worst part of all.
I wanted to figure out what EXACTLY is stated by perfect world international crew.
All I found is Terms of Service. (Just 1 link, 1 policy)
The real issue is this entry: (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
According to the most dictionairies, exploiting means taking advantage of, or doing something unethicly.
However there is one problem with unethicly. unethicly is a word that is relative for every person. What seems 'inhumane' for the one, can be not even touching for the other.
Considering this is still a company, I'd say we are going along the PWI version of the word unethicly.
Now tell me PWI, what is unethical to you?
My guess would be any form of file creation or manipulation in this case that manipulates the game in any way. But how many people do actually realise this?
Now the taking advantage part is totally relative to the unethical part. Some people do think that this is ethical enough to pass. Clearly it is since most of them aren't even noticable. Yet they did it. But what I don't get is, how is changing the size of arms or **** an advantage? I don't recall getting extra strength or extra agility?
So someone noted that taking it too far will make it a **** so you aren't selectable? This would be an exploit. The character is not selectable because the limits are not really set. Set one and it's solved. Except for the oversize or undersize, ini editing isn't any cheat at all since it clearly gives no advantages since everyone can do it.(Unless you don't know how, but if that matters you are saying high level characters are cheating on the new low level players who never touched the game.)
Also I like to note that this ini editing or creating isn't any third party content, since it's completely recognizable by the system as it's own and is no add-on in any way.
Now for the absolute problem.
There is nothing noted about third party programs influencing the game.
According to PWI terms of service (which also notes ingame rules), it's ok to use bots and whatsoever. Everyone can download a bot if they know how to, so it's no advantage. Next to that what a bot does, can be done by a human player aswell. Difference is a bot goes on and on and on and a human simply can't or won't. Except for few of course.
Now this is what I get from the terms of service, the only agreement I could find on the entire site, google and in-game. (links during first screen for example).
I strongly suggest changing the terms of service or adding a new one on top of it.
If there is any terms of service especially for the game, start with making it way more noticable. If google can't find it, who can?
To make a long story short. Change terms of service, next update get a limiter.
For those who currently have ini-edited/created character files, there is nothing to it. They aren't banned cuz it isn't noticable. Hence the above story.
This is my 'short' thought on this. cheers!
PS: I didn't felt like taking out all grammer typo's so sorry if you find one.
PPS: I necro'd old topic I didn't notice >_> Sorry my bad.
Third Edit: Any person who got banned and claiming not to do anything wrong, it doesn't matter. Since 2008 the rules clearly state that PWI reserves ALL rights to close, remove, or restrict or even alter any account whether there is no reason, there is any reason whether it's valid or not. If they think you get annoying, they have all the rights to ban you and there is nothing you can't opose them for.
I bet you made a lot of peoples KoS list.0 -
Editing the game files is not allowed as said in the TOS it does not matter what format the file is in as soon as you make a change to any file it has been edited.
And no changing a .ini file is not hacking but it is still editing files PWI have put alot of effort in to making the classes unique for people to come along and edit the game files. I do not blame you as PWI should of made it a more secure file to change but I dont like it when people cant just accept that something is not allowed and try to detest it.
Safest way is NOT to edit any files you have no reason to other that personal satisfication
Dam necro never seen -.-02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye0 -
That is my point. They only tell this about editing and altering and not creating.
In my post I put down that if you create a file from scratch the rules doesn't apply on it and that makes it legal. In any case this cannot be checked by the PWI GM ingame so in fact they may not ban you for it as lack of evidence. But then again, they always preserve the right to ban people whatever the reason if there is any.
But other than that, I kinda agree with the editing(and creation for that part). I mean they even introduced new hairpieces as fashion element. I mean isn't that enough costumisation?
It's very easy to write such files from scratch. Every number represents something and every key has a max value.
SO in one way, I disagree with the rules having it allowed.
And the other way, I agree with it since there already is a very big wardrobe. Enough to make a unique character.
lol doesn't matter my character I play isn't in my list. And what use is it to KoS a level 1 character that I made as my main avatar?I bet you made a lot of peoples KoS list.0 -
if u wanna do ini edit..do it..whocares.This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.0 -
Jarid - Lost City wrote: »Now the taking advantage part is totally relative to the unethical part. Some people do think that this is ethical enough to pass. Clearly it is since most of them aren't even noticable. Yet they did it. But what I don't get is, how is changing the size of arms or **** an advantage? I don't recall getting extra strength or extra agility?
b:chuckledarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Guys, guys, you're all looking at it the wrong way.
They should allow the .ini files to be edited. Just put some realistic twists in there. Massively obese characters fat beyond what normal customisation would allow lose their secondary jump in the air. Characters with huge **** the size of Texas lose the ability to wear most fashion and suffer from severe back problems. Guys with huge arms can't move them properly for all the fat/muscle/whatever and thus are limited to skills that don't require movement of the arms.
I know I'd love to watch characters built that way waddle around, then trip over a blade of grass and end up stuck on their ****/back/stomach because they're too morbidly large to get back up. On the other end of the scale it would be equally hilarious to watch a stick-thin figure trip over a beetle and then snap in half.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Guys, guys, you're all looking at it the wrong way.
They should allow the .ini files to be edited. Just put some realistic twists in there. Massively obese characters fat beyond what normal customisation would allow lose their secondary jump in the air. Characters with huge **** the size of Texas lose the ability to wear most fashion and suffer from severe back problems. Guys with huge arms can't move them properly for all the fat/muscle/whatever and thus are limited to skills that don't require movement of the arms.
I know I'd love to watch characters built that way waddle around, then trip over a blade of grass and end up stuck on their ****/back/stomach because they're too morbidly large to get back up. On the other end of the scale it would be equally hilarious to watch a stick-thin figure trip over a beetle and then snap in half.
Reality in a Perfect World. Ouch. I wonder how devs will react to that, and hear about more workload. b:chuckleMaintenance time. Please choose a line:
- When is it over? OMG I need my fix!! *super spazzing*
- Fix the damn bugs, dammit! I'm so angry! I'll quit!!
- New codes out there? I like free stuff~ *wink*
- When will we get new content? QQ
- Will we get sales? I got a ton of gold to spend.
- I'm bored, I'll create a useless thread to annoy Opkorock.
- *Incessant poking on Sweetiebot* Fun~0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Guys, guys, you're all looking at it the wrong way.
They should allow the .ini files to be edited. Just put some realistic twists in there. Massively obese characters fat beyond what normal customisation would allow lose their secondary jump in the air. Characters with huge **** the size of Texas lose the ability to wear most fashion and suffer from severe back problems. Guys with huge arms can't move them properly for all the fat/muscle/whatever and thus are limited to skills that don't require movement of the arms.
I know I'd love to watch characters built that way waddle around, then trip over a blade of grass and end up stuck on their ****/back/stomach because they're too morbidly large to get back up. On the other end of the scale it would be equally hilarious to watch a stick-thin figure trip over a beetle and then snap in half.
What about hamsters?
o_Odarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »What about hamsters?
o_O
Pfffffffffffffffffffft. Who needs to use .ini to edit hamsters? Hamsters are about as awesome as they come, no edits needed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Pfffffffffffffffffffft. Who needs to use .ini to edit hamsters? Hamsters are about as awesome as they come, no edits needed.
Tis true!
>.<'
b:pleaseddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »Tis true!
>.<'
b:pleased
Tha'ts not just true. It's the full complete truth!
Hamsters rule!
Bears too b:laugh
For those who didn't noticed: b:shocked <<this is a burned bear in the rain (hence the waterdrop)0 -
Jarid - Lost City wrote: »how is changing the size of arms or **** an advantage?
It's a huge advantage. If a girl gets her **** just the right size, no guys would be able to pk her cuz they'd be far too distracted.0
![http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z130/saleniece/ermosa1-1.gif[/SIGPIC]](http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z130/saleniece/ermosa1-1.gif[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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