Pure Cleric or Magic User PvE

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Riderofold - Sanctuary
Riderofold - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
edited February 2011 in Cleric
I'm not new to the game, but i am new to the forum. I'm not sure if there's anything about this on here but i couldn't think of how to word it. Has anyone tried a pure Cleric, or magic user (Cleric, Mage, Pyschic, and Venomancer) PvE, like squads in dungeons and other things like that, using the different advantages of each of the 4 (or just Clerics). And if they have how successful it was. If you haven't could you give your opinion on how you think that might work out. Thanks in advance if anyone knows anything.b:thanks
Post edited by Riderofold - Sanctuary on

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  • Reichle - Sanctuary
    Reichle - Sanctuary Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Well, across the board, pures have more mana and therefore higher magic attack.
    For venos and clerics this means better heals.
    For wizzes and psychics these means even bigger nukes.

    Of course the downside is that physical mobs will beat you up in about 2 seconds (if they ever get close enough to touch you), but you can help yourself with this at higher levels by sharding with garnets and/or citrines. You can also add vit to your build.
    Reichle lvl7x cleric | Neithin lvl5x barb | Tigressi lvl3x veno | Etheriali lvl3x wiz | Goldeeni lvl2x sin | Lilaq lvl2x BM | Fuegai lvlx archer | Whiteney psychic not created yet >_>

    Yes, I love PWI that much. Every class is awesome in their own way.
  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, across the board, pures have more mana and therefore higher magic attack.
    For venos and clerics this means better heals.
    For wizzes and psychics these means even bigger nukes.

    Of course the downside is that physical mobs will beat you up in about 2 seconds (if they ever get close enough to touch you), but you can help yourself with this at higher levels by sharding with garnets and/or citrines. You can also add vit to your build.

    vit added =/= pure build
    if you know you can count on your squad to protect you then you can go pure, or close to pure. if you cant and something physical gets to you you will die...

    hp needed = hits you expect to take +1 :P like if you know tt 1-3 sb can hit in bb for over 4k, then you must have over 4k hp to try him and live... i know some people make hybrid build at the beginning and restat at higher levels when its worth it to refine and shard armors

    i have 45 base vit. enough for both fb 99 even without barb buff (4,6k hp) and for full rb delta (with barb buff 6,4k). if i refine more / get better ornaments will restat some of it into mag :) want to have 7-7,5k hp buffed for bigger safety margin, yesterday twilight emperor hit me for 6,5k qq
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Riderofold - Sanctuary
    Riderofold - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    I think i may have miss wrote what i meant. By pure Cleric/magic user i mean squads with only venos, clerics, mages, and pyschics not a pure magic build. like using venos for tanks, clerics for healing, and mages for dd's
  • vengefulfury
    vengefulfury Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Well the other day i was in a squad of 5 and 4 of us were clerics. Seemed to go pretty well really.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Riderofold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think i may have miss wrote what i meant. By pure Cleric/magic user i mean squads with only venos, clerics, mages, and pyschics not a pure magic build. like using venos for tanks, clerics for healing, and mages for dd's

    When dealing with a lot of bosses it is best to go with some dds especially Barb for tanking as most Venos don't have Hercs..It would still be better though to have Barb or even a BM.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Riderofold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think i may have miss wrote what i meant. By pure Cleric/magic user i mean squads with only venos, clerics, mages, and pyschics not a pure magic build. like using venos for tanks, clerics for healing, and mages for dd's

    At mid to higher levels this might work, but you will be restricted with some of the bosses/instances/etc that you can do.

    Although at higher levels all of those classes can tank quite a number of things (if you know how to play your character), there are some things you will just need another class for (Barb, BM, Archer, Assasain).

    No need to restrict yourself....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    ah.
    there are physical bossess that are hard for arcane to tank. some of them are impossible to tank with pet (even herc - like decaying fragrance or polearm).
    why limit youself? magic and physical classess compliment each other nicely here... its way easier to have barb, bm or archer tank stygean with once cleric healing them than make cleric tank it and waste mana of 2 other clerics to heal him... and i dont want to think about repair costs of that o.O and if you make pet tank it everybody would have to nerf damage to not steal aggro, so another waste...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Riderofold - Sanctuary
    Riderofold - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    thanks for the answers everyone, this was just a random thought that crossed my mind, but thanks for the help
  • Panteka - Sanctuary
    Panteka - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Little late in the convo but thought i'd add my two cents here..I was in a bh with a pure mag cleric (bh 51...she/he was around lvl 65). I myself am offensive build (2 vit 1 str 7 mag) and it works well for me at lvl 65 I have roughly 2.7k hp and my attacks average about 3.5-5.5k in pve with crits anywhere between 7-13k. So back to the other cleric. The bh squad we had was 3 clerics, a barb, and an archer maybe? Anyways, since the pure mag cleric had such low hp (about 1700 to my and the other cleric's 2700/2900), they were rather useless as a healer because her more-powerful heals drew agg to her and caused her to die multiple times. Ressing her before the boss died became an annoying priority and almost caused us to lose our tank on more than one occasion.

    After a really looong bh run and without even making it to wyvern after an hour of chaos, I finally had to take charge and tell her to stay on dd while me and the 3rd cleric healed. This worked well. Personally after this experience I would NEVER reccomend a pure mag cleric for pve especially since even with my own, more balanced build I heal more than well enough as I keep my skills and weapon up to date and know how to use my hotkeys.

    Unless you want to be completely dependant on hp charms for the duration of your low-mid lvl (and possibly high lvl) life as a pve cleric with pure mag build...and even the charms may not save you...don't do it.
  • Rjwashere - Dreamweaver
    Rjwashere - Dreamweaver Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Panteka - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Little late in the convo but thought i'd add my two cents here..I was in a bh with a pure mag cleric (bh 51...she/he was around lvl 65). I myself am offensive build (2 vit 1 str 7 mag) and it works well for me at lvl 65 I have roughly 2.7k hp and my attacks average about 3.5-5.5k in pve with crits anywhere between 7-13k. So back to the other cleric. The bh squad we had was 3 clerics, a barb, and an archer maybe? Anyways, since the pure mag cleric had such low hp (about 1700 to my and the other cleric's 2700/2900), they were rather useless as a healer because her more-powerful heals drew agg to her and caused her to die multiple times. Ressing her before the boss died became an annoying priority and almost caused us to lose our tank on more than one occasion.

    After a really looong bh run and without even making it to wyvern after an hour of chaos, I finally had to take charge and tell her to stay on dd while me and the 3rd cleric healed. This worked well. Personally after this experience I would NEVER reccomend a pure mag cleric for pve especially since even with my own, more balanced build I heal more than well enough as I keep my skills and weapon up to date and know how to use my hotkeys.

    Unless you want to be completely dependant on hp charms for the duration of your low-mid lvl (and possibly high lvl) life as a pve cleric with pure mag build...and even the charms may not save you...don't do it.





    pure mag build clerics don't need any charms and are pretty good doing pve... that pure mag cleric in your squad was probably just kinda fail. im a pure mag cleric and ive never needed charms and im good at pve.
    b:avoidb:avoidb:avoid
  • Miisa - Raging Tide
    Miisa - Raging Tide Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    re the OP's question: in fb/bh59, psychics and wizards make great tanks for the bosses there, and in a couple of cases, are even MUCH better than a physical class. even so, there are a few spots getting to the bosses where a physical tank comes in really handy. personally, i always prefer to have a barb and bm in squads because i loooove their buffs. b:chuckle and to make a broad generalization, those two classes in particular seem to be much smarter about making sure they have everything aggro'd and keeping their cleric safe.
    Panteka - Sanctuary wrote: »
    they were rather useless as a healer because her more-powerful heals drew agg to her and caused her to die multiple times.

    this, i don't know about. i'm a pure mag build and i've never had my healing draw aggro (assuming all attacking monsters have been hit by someone). and if switching her to pure DD fixed things, it seems more likely that she was just healing to soon. i'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but i'd bet your difficulties were more about the player rather than the build.

    out of my own curiosity, has anyone else seen healing draw aggro like that? i mean, presuming all attacking monsters have been aggro'd and you haven't done any DD'ing.
  • Marri - Raging Tide
    Marri - Raging Tide Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    I have a lvl 80 pure magic Build I draw aggro when healing only if the tank does not have a hold of it. But if I dd I pull aggro off of some barbs. Clerics are no good unless they are pure mag in my opinion putting to much into Vit is a waste. And i don't understand why everyone put hp and physical def into there armor it isn't enough to even help. Magic resistance is what you need. In an instance a cleric should not get hit if you have a good barb or bm and when doing questing or grinding you should have the physical mobs killed before they get to you, they are weak against magic. know your class....clerics are not meant to be a tank only dd or heals that's it.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    nice trolling..


    anyway,

    1. u cant avoid phy dmg always

    2. stacking def (any) gives dimishing returns so: 40% p.def, 70%m.def > 20% p.def, 80% m.def
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Grego - Raging Tide
    Grego - Raging Tide Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Nobody trolling here, it's just an opinion.

    I have seen many dying around me Pure Clerics in BH mostly in early-middle stages of game.
    In this specific case narrated by Panteka I sense that the Barb could fail his job to keep the aggro or that Pure Magic Cleric doesn't geared well. I personally disagree that Pure Mag is a bad option build, although I choose Balanced build.
    Squads work as a whole, fail one, fail all.
  • Panteka - Sanctuary
    Panteka - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Miisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

    this, i don't know about. i'm a pure mag build and i've never had my healing draw aggro (assuming all attacking monsters have been hit by someone). and if switching her to pure DD fixed things, it seems more likely that she was just healing to soon. i'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but i'd bet your difficulties were more about the player rather than the build.


    ah, never thought of that, but you are probably right
  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Panteka - Sanctuary wrote: »
    they were rather useless as a healer because her more-powerful heals drew agg to her and caused her to die multiple times. Ressing her before the boss died became an annoying priority and almost caused us to lose our tank on more than one occasion.
    thats not build, thats healing aggro...
    1) clerics fault: healing before tank grabs aggro. cleric should wait till he sees tank hitting mob (s), or animation from aggro skill. its clericc duty to pay attention to such things
    2) tanks fault: aggroing multiple mobs but hitting only one (or only few but not all), then yelling 'heal me!!!111' with many targets cleric may not see if everything has been properly hit, its tank duty to make sure cleric can safely heal when aoeing mobs
    3) squads fault: when cleric bbs for aoe clearing if squad doesnt grab aggro properly bbing cleric will die as anything not hit for enough damage will focus on them
    b:shutup
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tamias - Archosaur
    Tamias - Archosaur Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    I been there done that with some vit and TBH it didnt do much for me. Clerics just die alot especially when the squads/players aren't experienced in what they do and/or are sleeping at the keyboard b:chuckle

    Ive worked with pure on Arch after doing my time as Cleric on HT and actually I love my pure build cleric. Yeah, I have to shard for HP like crazy and have decent refines to be up to par, but I don't see me getting enough benefit from vit unless its coming form my gear (which in that case the +10 HP +more p.def even by a little makes me happier). Arch server is naked of Deltas for some reason and usually even Deltas I do try and get into don't succeed, which is not dependent on my HP. Me getting hit in BB by 10+ mobs for 300+ damage magical a piece and 500+ each time by archer mobs is usually due to not enough aggro being held by the barbs/BMs and are not timing stuns+re-aggroing skills.

    I had no problems surviving in the lower lvl BH's but I did need to get above 3.5k HP for FC's to comfortably do the boss in the heads room without getting 1 shot as well as for Drumer's AOE in 1-3.

    Anyways, a pure build party of magical users can be done but you'd need 2 venos that are pure pet healing on bosses like Wulord and having 2 clerics-one RBing another DDing and being on the side to res if pet dies and veno dies while the other veno grabs aggro. Pure psys/wizs...be very careful on your aggro if hercs are tanking b:shocked Ive been able to comfortably do Wulord 2-3 while I'm RB'd with 2 venos, one HA and one mag/vit w/ -chann, the mag/vit one possessing a herc (no bless skill). with a mag user class you will probably not be able to do AE, and maybe some 3-2/3-3 bosses but unless someone's tried and can say otherwise, I haven't heard of anyone being able to.
    Tamias-
    The Dealer at your service b:cute
  • SaintToadElf - Archosaur
    SaintToadElf - Archosaur Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited August 2010
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    Riderofold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm not new to the game, but i am new to the forum. I'm not sure if there's anything about this on here but i couldn't think of how to word it. Has anyone tried a pure Cleric, or magic user (Cleric, Mage, Pyschic, and Venomancer) PvE, like squads in dungeons and other things like that, using the different advantages of each of the 4 (or just Clerics). And if they have how successful it was. If you haven't could you give your opinion on how you think that might work out. Thanks in advance if anyone knows anything.b:thanks

    I once teamed with 3 other clerics and an archer for bh51. Im a LA cleric so I got the honor of tanking Fushy while the other clerics healed me and DDed. It was pretty cool. We talked out our roles before the battle began, so we each knew who was expected to heal and who was expected to DD and so on. That really helps.
  • oholyxknighto
    oholyxknighto Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
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    pure mgc build is the one i choose and im satisfied with that . but , there are cases that really frustrating me b:sad . like some **** FC and TT bosses which make it impossible to ignore vit and physical def . so im saying having 3k+ of hp (with buff i mean ) is good
  • Samaela - Dreamweaver
    Samaela - Dreamweaver Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited February 2011
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    SaintToadElf - Archosaur wrote: »
    I once teamed with 3 other clerics and an archer for bh51. Im a LA cleric so I got the honor of tanking Fushy while the other clerics healed me and DDed. It was pretty cool. We talked out our roles before the battle began, so we each knew who was expected to heal and who was expected to DD and so on. That really helps.
    Pure cleric squads b:dirty I love'em

    Personally I am pure mag and I really like that build and wouldn't pick a different one. I haven't gotten heal aggro because my heals were to strong either.The times I've seen it happen is at times like when I was helping a level 29 cleric with her fb and she decided to heal me and I was only attacking one mob. Poor girl got oneshot. b:sad
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Samaela[demon cleric]||Nanimee[mystic]||aquaelle[psychic]

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