HA sin?

Belheldar - Harshlands
Belheldar - Harshlands Posts: 94 Arc User
edited December 2011 in Assassin
i was just thinking about how la armor is worse than HA and AA endgame and thought about ann HA sin built like a fist bm...


has anyone ever made one?

would this even be worth the test?

lol am i just an idiot who has no clue what im talking about?b:laugh
Post edited by Belheldar - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Lovecraft - Lost City
    Lovecraft - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This has been discussed several times. Yes, people have made HA sins, and yes it is good. I'm sure if you spent a few minutes searching the assassin threads you'll find what you need.
  • Astrohawke - Lost City
    Astrohawke - Lost City Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    HA is a bad idea imo.

    If you wanted to keep 5aps with daggers, the only equips you would be able to change are the helmet and the pants to HA nirvana. In the end you lose about 2000 damage, 8% crit and a bit of magic resist for maybe 500 more HP and about 5% more physical defense. Not really worth it.

    If you don't care about interval and go all out HA, you lose about 2500 damage, 8% crit and down to 2.5 base aps in exchange for 3000 more HP and 5% more physical and magic defense. You're more tank but you're doing a lot less damage.

    HA just doesn't work well for sins.
  • NightReaper - Lost City
    NightReaper - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ull be pwned by mag classes, ull be unable to use daggers, ull have a fkn low crit chance and low atk.... if u need more physic def and dont want to lose DPS, i recomend u to make a fist BM and be hapyb:bye
    *stealth*...
    HEY APPLE...
    KNIFE!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited July 2010
    I don't think he's trying to make a HA dagger sin. He wants a sin, but same stats as bm (ie fist sin). Most likely to take advantage of chill + 5 aps + sage damage reduction.

    There is a cs sin in DW like that, but I think he still wears LA.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Fists Sins just fail in general, except for maybe that one spot down the interval list where -0.1 takes you to 5 sparked while you'll only have 3.33 sparked with daggers. Stating for and getting -0.1 fists/claws just for that one instance is a waste. With high end or low end aps, using fists is just kidding yourself.

    HA with daggers on the other hand, You can't have current lvl HA and daggers at the same time. HA takes 2.5 STR per lvl and daggers take 3 DEX per lvl. Sins lack the magic protection skills BM and Barb have, such as marrow, genie shield, Barb's magic shield and etc. I wouldn't go HA personally.
  • Astrohawke - Lost City
    Astrohawke - Lost City Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    HA with daggers on the other hand, You can't have current lvl HA and daggers at the same time. HA takes 2.5 STR per lvl and daggers take 3 DEX per lvl.

    You can actually. HA gives str and lunar glade cloak + love up and down give str and dex.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=10077819bdf4f879

    Just an example of what a full HA dagger sin would be like.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    You can actually. HA gives str and lunar glade cloak + love up and down give str and dex.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=10077819bdf4f879

    Just an example of what a full HA dagger sin would be like.

    At end game, with 250 mil tome plus boots and helm that are no longer obtainable, sure. I was talking more about the general Sin population.
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    NightReaper - Lost City wrote: »
    ull be pwned by mag classes, ull be unable to use daggers, ull have a fkn low crit chance and low atk.... if u need more physic def and dont want to lose DPS, i recomend u to make a fist BM and be hapyb:bye

    only if his ornaments are both pdef, else heavy have very similiar mdef/ too low crit is lol, y he have lower crit but with how much less? the lower attack that i think visible and enough difference if u allways autoattack.
    nmaybe HA easier in pve in begning.
  • Sneasel - Harshlands
    Sneasel - Harshlands Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I have come across 3 HA sins on Harshlands ... all around my lvl and pwned them all they cant use proper lvl daggers to utilize their skills which are unusable with fists and therefore die fast !
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Astrohawke - Lost City
    Astrohawke - Lost City Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    At end game, with 250 mil tome plus boots and helm that are no longer obtainable, sure. I was talking more about the general Sin population.

    That was just an example anyway. The helm and boots are plenty obtainable considering they bring the anni packs back every month with only like 1-2 weeks break in between.

    You didn't really specify anything other than to say it isn't possible for HA + dagger period. If you want an average HA dagger sin, this is just another example:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0340a66cf6ce3b15

    And those equips are pretty damn average. You can easily get more str/dex by changing tome and accessories around.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    HA is a bad idea imo.

    If you wanted to keep 5aps with daggers, the only equips you would be able to change are the helmet and the pants to HA nirvana. In the end you lose about 2000 damage, 8% crit and a bit of magic resist for maybe 500 more HP and about 5% more physical defense. Not really worth it.

    If you don't care about interval and go all out HA, you lose about 2500 damage, 8% crit and down to 2.5 base aps in exchange for 3000 more HP and 5% more physical and magic defense. You're more tank but you're doing a lot less damage.

    HA just doesn't work well for sins.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9d1d27c6f5cbfd5d 5.0 (demon parked) HA sin with daggers. (credit to Astrohawke for providing a base since I was too lazy to start from scratch)

    Compared to the similarly equipped pure dex version at http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f7b5814585d1d959

    Losses of HA:
    -Roughly 2k phys attack (unsparked)
    -0.5 interval (Which doesn't really matter much sparked unless you're trying to have permaspark with chill or something)
    -10% crit (though that's partly because of the choices I used for gear)
    -2.5k accuracy (This is made worse because the builds use double accuracy rings. However evasion in this game sucks so meh)
    -1.1k evasion (See above)

    Gains of HA:
    -2k HP (unbuffed)
    -2% phys resistance (Visible. Phys resist scales even when the percentage shown doesn't appear to change. Also don't feel like working out how much of a difference going from 79 to 81% is in terms of damage taken compared to 0 to 79)
    -7% mag resistance (see above)
    -Allows use of high level fists/claws (Though why you'd want to when you're already able to use daggers and gain 5.0 with them I wouldn't know)
    -Looks kinda cooler (Don't deny it. Higher level HA blows LA away in terms of looks b:chuckle )



    Take what you will from that. I just threw together an example with a base to show you can get 5.0 with a HA sin. Quite sure there are better equip choices but I don't really feel like getting too into it and just wanted to provide an example you all could make your own judgments from.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    That was just an example anyway. The helm and boots are plenty obtainable considering they bring the anni packs back every month with only like 1-2 weeks break in between.

    No, these "anni packs" are not the same. The items to trade for the boots and helm is no longer in them.
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    You didn't really specify anything other than to say it isn't possible for HA + dagger period. If you want an average HA dagger sin, this is just another example:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0340a66cf6ce3b15

    And those equips are pretty damn average. You can easily get more str/dex by changing tome and accessories around.

    I never said it's impossible for HA+daggers, I said you can't have them both of the current level. For example, that build right there can't wear level 90 daggers and have to wear that **** belt to have enough DEX for 85 daggers. I do admit that my statement does not taking into account of high level tomes.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    I never said it's impossible for HA+daggers, I said you can't have them both of the current level. For example, that build right there can't wear level 90 daggers and have to wear that **** belt to have enough DEX for 85 daggers. I do admit that my statement does not taking into account of high level tomes.

    That's flat-out wrong.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=507decbc89e13577

    Level 90 daggers, level 90 HA, Demon slaughter belt instead of the aforementioned "**** belt" needed for 85 daggers, and a level 2 tome.
  • Astrohawke - Lost City
    Astrohawke - Lost City Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    No, these "anni packs" are not the same. The items to trade for the boots and helm is no longer in them.

    You can trade 40 tokens of best luck for Helm of Holy Punishment and Heavenrage Boots which are then used to trade for the Forest's Wisdom and Tide of Elysium. Best luck tokens are in EVERY anni pack.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    I never said it's impossible for HA+daggers, I said you can't have them both of the current level. For example, that build right there can't wear level 90 daggers and have to wear that **** belt to have enough DEX for 85 daggers. I do admit that my statement does not taking into account of high level tomes.

    Do you really want to nitpick? The 85 frost daggers are better than any 90 daggers so he's wearing the best weapon he can wear at that level. That's enough. Plus consider that neither the tome, cape or rings add any stats in that build, you can get a lot more stats by exchanging those for better ones and you will have plenty of stats to wear HA and daggers of any level. Also first you complain the equips are too good and unobtainable then you tell me the belt is too **** lol. And that belt is fairly common on poor characters because it's free and gives decent bonuses.
  • Astrohawke - Lost City
    Astrohawke - Lost City Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9d1d27c6f5cbfd5d 5.0 (demon parked) HA sin with daggers. (credit to Astrohawke for providing a base since I was too lazy to start from scratch)

    That's not actually 5aps. You need 4 base to get 5 aps so you're missing 0.05 int still. Only way to get it without switching armors is by using TT99 evasion belt and neck which sucks.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    That's not actually 5aps. You need 4 base to get 5 aps so you're missing 0.05 int still. Only way to get it without switching armors is by using TT99 evasion belt and neck which sucks.

    No. 3.33 unsparked is the minimum for 5.0 demon sparked. The reason for this is because there's no interval between 4 ad 5 and since the game rounds intervals, you'll wind up at 5 when you demon spark.
  • NightReaper - Lost City
    NightReaper - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »
    only if his ornaments are both pdef, else heavy have very similiar mdef/ too low crit is lol, y he have lower crit but with how much less? the lower attack that i think visible and enough difference if u allways autoattack.
    nmaybe HA easier in pve in begning.

    If u use mag ornaments u will lose the -int bonus of ashura's.

    to use HA u need to put 5dex and 5str every 2 lvls, more str and less dex than normal builds... if u use daggers, ur damage will come from dex, if u use fists, ur damage will come from str, but u wont have high str nor high dex, making ur atk with fists or daggers very low... also, low dex means that ur crit, evasion and accuarcy are lowb:bye
    *stealth*...
    HEY APPLE...
    KNIFE!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    NightReaper - Lost City wrote: »
    If u use mag ornaments u will lose the -int bonus of ashura's.

    to use HA u need to put 5dex and 5str every 2 lvls, more str and less dex than normal builds... if u use daggers, ur damage will come from dex, if u use fists, ur damage will come from str, but u wont have high str nor high dex, making ur atk with fists or daggers very low... also, low dex means that ur crit, evasion and accuarcy are lowb:bye

    yes, i said too maybe good for begning (example between 1-60 u dont get too huge aps so maybe easier the lving if you dont got a good weapon).
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    That's flat-out wrong.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=507decbc89e13577

    Level 90 daggers, level 90 HA, Demon slaughter belt instead of the aforementioned "**** belt" needed for 85 daggers, and a level 2 tome.
    Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »
    You can trade 40 tokens of best luck for Helm of Holy Punishment and Heavenrage Boots which are then used to trade for the Forest's Wisdom and Tide of Elysium. Best luck tokens are in EVERY anni pack.



    Do you really want to nitpick? The 85 frost daggers are better than any 90 daggers so he's wearing the best weapon he can wear at that level. That's enough. Plus consider that neither the tome, cape or rings add any stats in that build, you can get a lot more stats by exchanging those for better ones and you will have plenty of stats to wear HA and daggers of any level. Also first you complain the equips are too good and unobtainable then you tell me the belt is too **** lol. And that belt is fairly common on poor characters because it's free and gives decent bonuses.

    Fine. I stand corrected and that you can gather enough points from gears in later levels for both HA and daggers.
  • MiniDusk - Heavens Tear
    MiniDusk - Heavens Tear Posts: 931 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    HA sin = bad mkay? Every single one I've come across on the Heavens Tear server has been more than fail. b:shutup
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    MiniDusk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    HA sin = bad mkay? Every single one I've come across on the Heavens Tear server has been more than fail. b:shutup

    I'd think that's more the player's fault than the build itself. Not to say I support or reject HA fish (or archers, in the same extent), but let's not forget the **** that... say... Heavy/Robe venos used to get a while back... or fist BMs, for that matter.
  • EARTHY_ - Sanctuary
    EARTHY_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    If i were to make an op ha sin, this would be it

    http://pwcalc.com/635374ee06a884db b:victory
  • Dinya - Sanctuary
    Dinya - Sanctuary Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    I've good one thing to say: HA sin = fail
    If u want HA class take bm/barb
  • krisnda
    krisnda Posts: 4,655 Community Moderator
    edited December 2011
    Closed for necro.
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