Examples "why you chose Sage or Demon"

Blackula__ - Archosaur · July 2010

I have been reading the forum and talking to people......it basically seems mater of personal opinion. I wanted to hear from people either sage or demon as to why they choose what they did.

Kasumi - Dreamweaver · July 2010

i chose demon because......faster attack speed, more crit

use demon stun arrow first, 10% more crit, then demon quickshot, shoot faster than spark. its pretty nice b:pleased

Brigid - Harshlands · July 2010

Because Devoted said so.

Also, Demon Spark and Demon Quickshot. I like shooting fast.

Illyana - Dreamweaver · July 2010

I like killing the people who have posted above and below me, so I went Sage. b:chuckle

Because I knew about the claw archer build long before I chose cultivation and knew I'd be playing my character out for a long, long time so I wanted something to work for. I wanted to hit 5 times a second with a set of claws PvE, permasparked with 25% reduction and I knew I couldn't do that if I went demon.

I didn't want a cookie-cutter demon archer build and I appreciate chi steady chi gain and bigger hits.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · July 2010

I choose sage because I wanted a light colored faerie.

(And my impression, from reading everything I could, was that I could make my cultivation work well for me. And, so far, I have been happy with my build and skills.)

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2010

Sage seemed like a better version of a normal archer while demon added more interesting skills. I like Sage's chi gain but I liked demon's spark and barrage better so didn't see a point of that chi. I didn't plan for 5aps clawcher tho... wish I could use sage spark for that

Blackula__ - Archosaur · July 2010

So what I am hearing is that demon quick shot is the $hit b:laugh Those who chose sage benefit from a fist/claw bonus with "perma-spark" that demon can not achieve. I have looked at the two and I see + & - to each. These can be compensated with skill, pots or whatever.

I think both camps will look at the other and say "you fools....." I guess I just need to decide which fool I will be b:victory

Anfisa - Lost City · July 2010

Also demon because of devoted.

And both can achieve perma-spark, its actually cheaper to get perma-spark with demon. However if you do stack enough -interval to do it with sage then it's better since you get the damage reduction. But if you just want sage for 5aps with claws reroll a bm.

fulgida · July 2010

Blackula__ - Archosaur wrote: »

So what I am hearing is that demon quick shot is the $hit b:laugh Those who chose sage benefit from a fist/claw bonus with "perma-spark" that demon can not achieve solo.

I fixed your statement for you.

Blue Bubble's damage reduction is much better than any sage archers' innate damage reduction. And I do not believe they stack.

Atreana - Lost City · July 2010

Demon quickshot and demon triple spark 'nuff said. b:chuckle

Drippydrop - Harshlands · July 2010

Demon. All you need to read. Demon.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

i picked demon cuz i the spark looks epic

the sage spark is like a biger version of double spark but demon is big and red

plus it looks uber cool (>_> that is 1 reason but i realy wanted a cost effective way to max my a/s)

Nadis - Sanctuary · July 2010

Devoted has pretty much said everything that needs to be said on the choice. Choosing as archer isnt that hard, just read the effects and you will notice that its.. Demon > Sage.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i picked demon cuz i the spark looks epic

That comment just scared me. b:surrender

Miugre - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Sage, partly out of personal protest to all the demon fanatics out there. ;[

You can have fun with either of them; it all depends on what you want from the game. If you want serious (and I mean serious) PVP? Consider demon. Otherwise, both are fine choices and it all comes down to which skills you'd personally prefer.

Also, I lol'd at the idea that Sage clawchers are potentially as broken as Demon clawchers with enough -int. Is this why Sage archers seem to be making a comeback?? Or am I imagining that? XD

Anchali - Heavens Tear · July 2010

demon. bc... honestly .. the red spark looked epic LOL no joke man. fear the red spark!!!! heh

Teppeii - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Demon. Cause I like to kill people =D

I_Snipe - Lost City · July 2010

Demon because i liked the majority of the skill set.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver · July 2010

I'm going demon, why?
The harder I hit, the faster they fall b:laugh.

Cavalieri - Sanctuary · July 2010

My main point for choosing sage was that i preferred higher steady damage, above a chance to do higher damage, since PW's luck system hates me.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Demon cause I didnt want to spend a ****load on interval gear to hit faster...and also my faction was filled with sages <.<

Zhadi - Archosaur · July 2010

I chose demon for various reasons.

I will not even be considering Claws/Fists because the definition of an archer is a ranged physical attacker (of course, we do have magic skills as well) and if you want to do melee damage you should probably reroll into BM or Assassin... Demon/Sage paths offer skills for bows... so to consider going it JUST for the spark is... well... a bit neglectful and you won't be able to use your class to its fullest potential... just my personal opinion, i don't mean to put anybody down for their build. To each their own, I am just sharing, once again, my own personal opinion.

For starters, I will name skills that are completely useless (sage and demon versions) for both PvE and PvP so that I don't waste my time trying to explain them:

Vicious Arrow
Serrated Arrow
Knockback Arrow
Stormrage Eagleon

Demon Spark - Adds 500% Weapon Damage, Recovers 20% HP, and Increases Attack Speed by 25%.

Sage Spark - Adds 500% Weapon Damage, Recovers 20% HP, and reduces Damage Taken by 25%.

Demon takes this one. Archers lack attack speed so that extra boost really really helps out. It's also a cheap way to overcome having to spend millions on interval gear which is really ridiculously priced. 25% reduced damage is not as noticeable as you would assume it is. WoG supposedly reduces 30% but I see close to no difference when I activate it. Last but not least, red demon spark is just sexy(lol) It's very aesthetically pleasing to the eyes and I know most would be lying if they said they didn't care about looks in game.

Blazing Arrow - Adds 70% Weapon Damage for 20 seconds after casting and then 50% after the 20 seconds are over

Blazing Arrow - Adds 60% Weapon Damage.

On this, it's all based on personal choice. Honestly... whatever suits you..

Frost Arrow - 20% chance to cast without using chi, instead gaining 35 chi.

Frost Arrow - Turns all damage into water elemental damage.

Uhm... None.. I have better stuff to use my chi on than this skill. The only reason I put it on here is because sages argue that this is a good skill to fight heavies because suddenly you have a 4th (decent) magic skill. I totally disagree. Metal skill spam is enough to take out heavies. Because now you have an extra magic attack does not mean you will be a God vs heavies. Like I said, chi is better used in other skills.

Take Aim - 400% Weapon Damage and 3.5 second channel

Take Aim - 500% Weapon Damage and 4 second channel

Sage Take Aim - Although I do like the reduced channel time on the demon side, because it really does make a huge difference, I also like the extra 100% weapon damage from sage more. Pretty decent hits with this skill. Only problem is that I hardly ever use it because the channel time (even demon) is too long

Quickshot - 50% chance to increase attack rate by 30% for 6 seconds

Quickshot - 50% chance to gain 20 additional chi.

Demon Quickshot owns this skill so hard! It's beast-like when you have more attack speed so constantly with this skill even more than with demon spark. Sync this along with other demon skills such as Demon Stunning Arrow and your opponents can start typing in "GG". Never underestimate this skill vs heavies either. Proc this, and you'll be sure to tick their charm. Then right after their charm tick, time ur metal skills and it makes breaking charms so much easier.

Lightning Strike - Extends cooldown by 2 seconds, but will never miss.

Lightning Strike - 25% chance to gain 20 additional chi.

Demon Lightning Strike - 100% accuracy is so important late game vs BMs, Barbs, and especially Assassins, and other archers. 2 seconds extra cooldown sucks, i do agree, but the fact that you will ALWAYS hit with this skill makes it worth it. Positives overcome the negatives. Extra chi is always welcomed as well, but in terms of which is better, i think the 100% accuracy takes it.

Thunder Shock - Gives 10% Chance to paralyze the target for 10 seconds.

Thunder Shock - Increases the duration of debuff to 25 seconds.

Demon Thunder Shock. With 10 second duration on lvl 10 and demon, you already have enough to keep the target debuffed nonstop. 25 seconds just isn't necessary. Even though it is a minimal % for the demon to proc, it is still a great proc when it does occur. Countless times this skill has saved me and helped me land a kill in PvP.

Thunderous Blast - Gives an additional 800 damage

Thunderous Blast - Reduces Channeling time to 2 seconds and cooldown time to 7 seconds.

Sage Thunderous Blast = GG. OK, so this is the skill that would have honestly made me go sage other than Bow Mastery and Chi gain. The casting/channeling time on this skill is way too long >.< IDK how many times I have failed to kill heavies because of the channel on this stupid skill. It lands amazing damage to them when it crits but either I get stunned or their charm ticks during the channel. that .5 second less channel can be the defining factor in many fights.

Stunning Arrow - 3 second stun and gives +10% critical rate for the next 10 seconds.

Stunning Arrow - Increases stun duration to 4.5 seconds.

Demon Stunning Arrow. Yes, 1 second extra stun is nice. Yes, it might land you a robed kill. But if you can't see how useful 10% crits can be as an archer then you obviously haven't played till late game. Archers are dependent on crits. Try killing ANYBODY without crits... good luck. This skill just syncs so well with everything. 40+ % crits is no laughing matter. Get rank 8 as well and you're looking at over 50% crits.

Sharpened Tooth Arrow - 16% HP debuff and +10% crits for 15 seconds.

Sharpened Tooth Arrow - 20% HP debuff

I will not claim a winner to this. Both demon and sage are great in their own way. I personally prefer demon because, once again, archers depend on crits. However, I will not deny that the sage side is a beautiful skill as well.

Aim Low - 25% Chance to stun the target for 3 seconds

Aim Low - 25% Chance to seal the target for 5 seconds

TBH, not much a target can do with either sage or demon when you Aim Low them. But demon takes this because when a target is sealed, they can still pot, pop in a defense charm, or something of that sort. stunning is much better than seal.

Deadly Shot - Adds 500 extra damage and reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds.

Deadly Shot - Does full damage to targets that are within 5 meters.

Sage Deadly Shot. I never really use this skill tbh. And if I do, it won't be against heavies which are the only ones that tend to get up close. If a ranged class gets up close I really just wingspan, winged pledge, holy path away. This belongs to sage, however, it's not really a skill I would recommend you use much unless you have time for the long channel/cast in TWs etc... in which case... Demon would be better because of the extra damage and reduced cooldown...

Winged Shell - Increases duration to 30 seconds

Winged Shell - Absorbs up to 1250 damage

Demon Winged Shell wins out in between the two. 250 extra damage absorbed is useful, however, a lot of times when I cast winged shell, I get kited until it runs out. with the duration increased, it means I ALWAYS have winged shell which I use a lot during PvP (almost all the time, actually).

Winged Pledge - Has a 50% chance to reduce enemy speed by 50% for 5 seconds.

Winged Pledge - Reduces cooldown to 1 second.

Sage Winged Pledge because who even pays attention to speed anymore when there's holy path? Demon version is pretty useless now. This skill is actually pretty useful since sins were introduced to the game. +1 for sage with this skill.

Wingspan - Casts a level 5 winged shell on self when this skill is used

Wingspan - 20% chance to gain an additional 100 chi.

Demon Wingspan. As I stated before, I always use winged shell during PvP. The fact that you can have a winged shell ready as soon as the duration is over for the demon version of that skill and that this skill has a 6 second cooldown and always casts a shell on you means you have almost a constant shell at all times vs melees. 100 chi gain is amazing, though. Archers have a very poor chi gain, and although, we're not the most chi dependent class in the game, chi is always great for our survivability. Winged shell does take chi to cast, though. So if you look at it this way, Demon version gives 45 extra chi everytime you use it, as opposed to 100 chi for 1 out of every 5 uses for sage. Demon takes it either way.

Wings of Protection - Increases evasion by 50% for 30 minutes and speed by 20% for 600 seconds.

Wings of Protection - Increases evasion by 40% for 1 hour and speed by 15% for 15 minutes.

Demon Wings of Protection. When you use holy path or any sort of speed increase skill, the speed buff goes away. Holy path is used so much during PvP that the speed increase given by this can be neglected. The biggest difference is the evasion. Increased duration vs better evasion.... are you really going to be so lazy that you can't buff yourself every 30 minutes? >.< I don't even know what to say if you answered "yes" to that question. Demon version just wins this.

Bow Mastery - 75% weapon damage +1% crit rate.

Bow Mastery - 90% weapon damage

Sage Bow Mastery wins, of course, because of the increased damage. However, I would like to take the time to take a bit of credit away from sage at this time. 15% weapon damage is not a life-changing, cultivation deciding factor. 15% WEAPON damage is NOT 15% damage increase. It is merely a 3% overall damage increase. Archers are not a 1 shot class the way mages are and they will never be, no matter what Bow Mastery you have.

Winged Blessing - 12 meter range increase, 10% accuracy, 1% crit increase.

Winged Blessing - 14 meter range increase.

Demon Winged Blessing because 2 meters is nothing. Honestly, the archer that hits first is not the one with the longest range, it's the one with the better internet connection. Unfortunately, my internet connection blows. I have 32 meter range compared to a psychic's 28 meter range with their skills (only example I can think of right now) and they still tend to hit me first when we're coming at eachother from a long range because of my delay. Accuracy increase and the crit increase is a better addon. yes, we do have good accuracy already but you can't go wrong with 10% increase with a passive skill.

Barrage of Arrows - reduces the interval between hits by .5 seconds

Barrage of Arrows - reduces damage taken by 33%

Demon Barrage of Arrows. The difference in interval between hits on this skill is so much greater than what it seems on paper. Once you see it in action, you will see what I mean. The damage reduction is great, however, the first thing most people will do on an archer who is barraging is not attack it to try to kill it, it is to stun it first. Once you're stunned, the BoA goes down, and the damage reduction is over. It is best to just land as much damage as possible while the BoA is still up, and that's what the demon version offers.

Those are my opinions on the demon/sage skills. It is biased, of course, based on my play-style and the experiences I've had. I went demon and I am happy with my decision. End game, we just have so many more skills that make us suitable for PvP because of the versatility that it gives. Props to any sage archer that performs well, though.

Zhadi - Archosaur · July 2010

Any sage archer who would like to give some feedback... I would welcome it ^^ I like to hear both sides of the story rather than just my own XD

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · July 2010

@ Zhadi

demon take aim 400% 2.5s chan / sage take aim 500% 3s chan
demon stun = 3s / sage stun = 4.5s

Illyana - Dreamweaver · July 2010

I'll bite.

If claws and fists were never made to be equipped by an archer, they would have made them class specific. Yes, the majority of archer skills cannot be used be used with claws on, but the simple fact of the matter is, in reality, archers can and do very much benefit from claws, so they shouldn't be discredited from analysis.

On the whole, Demon spark is better than Sage spark, however, in certain situations (mostly PvE) Sage is better.

Blazing Arrow - Sage is better. Demon does not stack with fire apothecary and has lower DPH. Recasting Blazing Arrow for the small added damage bonus provided of Demon BH is wasteful of both time and MP.

Frost Arrow - Sage is better. What else are you going to be able to do after a HA uses anti-metal genie skills?

Take Aim - accurate. Sage is better.

Quickshot - accurate. Demon is better, but the skill usefulness is overstated.

Lightning Strike - Sage is better. An end-game archer should not miss at all against mob or player if they have 50% accuracy rings. As it turns out, the best feasibly obtainable rings in the game have this stat on them. Demons get nerfed out of the effectiveness of this skill by adding to the cooldown.

Thundershock - Sage is better. The description you have stated for demon is inaccurate. At 10% proc, it is hardly something that can be counted on. In TWs and group PvP, prolonged metal debuff is wonderful, since it means you'll be able to cast Thundershock AGAIN with the debuff still there more often.

Thunderous Blast - accurate, Sage is better but the difference between the two is not a cultivation changer.

Stunning Arrow. Sage is Better, but only slightly. Generally, a sage will get 1 more hit in for free. This skill sets up a wide variety of follow up skills or attacks. The difference between a demon and sage archer in this regard is 10% crit; in terms of end-game play, that translates to 50% crit versus 40% crit. A demon will use this skill, hit a few times or perhaps try their hand at a QS proc. The target might use AD, wait for the stun effect to change, then simply turn around and light them up. A sage will simply stun and kill. Crits are nice, but you're in a sense, increasing your proc to do double dmg by 10% for 10 seconds.

Sharpened Tooth Arrow - Sage wins. As Sage in PvE, you cast this once, instead of demon recasting it over and over. No archer should have to spam skills for PvE-- that'd be pointless, tedious and overdrawn simply for the self-buff. In PvP, 20% off the top as an opener means that once they tick, they have 20% less on a tick, too. The effects of this are in a sense, doubled then, so you'll have to do 40% less damage to kill the average opponent in a tick>kill scenario, as opposed to demon which gains 10% more chance to do double damage (a purgeable, non-stackable effect).

Aim low - meh. They have relatively equal effectiveness.

Deadly Shot - accurate, but overstated for a clawcher. I would sooner enjoy attacking a squishy at 5 times a second at close range, but 5 times a second does not a heiro tick. Use this as a finishing skill for those distance shrinking wizards.

Winged Shell - accurate. Slightly better, but not by much.

Winged Pledge - accurate, but again, overstated for a clawcher. I haven't seen a demon archer use this in PvP ever.

Wingspan - hard to say. The demon effect is nice, since it pretty much gives you a free hit on you, but we've got to keep this skill in context. We use this skill when we're surrounded by enemies, so all things considered, taking 10% damage of the next hit isn't that beneficial, unless that one hit is a wizard BIDS. However, when you're in a large group of enemies, wingspan can give you that 108 chi which would be very useful in say, casting your own winged shell, alacrity retreats, sage sparking, or wings of grace.

Wings of Protection -Agreed, Demon wins.

Bow Mastery - Agreed, Sage wins.

Winged Blessing - Sage wins. Before tab target selecting, I would have agreed with you. Now, you can get the furthest accessible enemy possible, which means archers have even larger effective ranges. 2% crit is nice, but 2 % crit isn't anything to write home about. Not to mention, Barraging from as far away as possible is awesome. With an extended range weapon, it is possible to barrage the far towers away in TW, which effectively nullifies an entire faction attempting to come back onto the playing field, which is something demon cannot do.

Barrage of Arrows - Demon has the potential to be better here, only because of the use of damage invulnerability apothecary. If you're not using apothecary, sage wins.

Summation of my thoughts on this matter, written months ago: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnoNaWLC4feNdHhQbFk3ZTB2RHBFd2FEdlh6WWhyZHc&hl=en#gid=0

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2010

A point about thundershock. I'm pretty sure the metal debuff is applied before the damage is applied. This means shock always benefits from its own debuff... really this skill is used often in a metal rotation so I don't think the debuff duration is all that important.

Zhadi - Archosaur · July 2010

@ Kiyoshi
Thank you for your corrections, they were a mistake on my part.

@ Illyana
Well, first about the claws:
I never said archers don't benefit from claws. Sure, they can get their DPS output up by a lot with these claws. It can help you farm, etc. However, these are also for archers who want to solo and tank. Yes, there are examples out there like wizzeled and chezedude. Those two guys have insane gear and I'm sure they could tank better than most other people, including barbs.. However, most average players will never have enough money to fund for the sorts of gears and refines that these guys have. Yes, it is possible, but not likely. Now, let me add something which i completely forgot to add to my post. Incase nobody noticed, my examples were all PvP scenarios/examples. I was speaking of PvP. I don't PvE much other than FC runs, tbh.. the fun part for me comes with PK and TW.. so I won't argue about PvE.

@Blazing Arrow Argument: Agreed. However, I doubt very many archers use fire damage apoth because of the fact that apoth has such a long cooldown and I'd rather use different, more useful apoths.

@Frost Arrow Argument: Kite

@Demon Quickshot Argument: I think you're underestimating it.

@Lightning Strike Argument: I am pure dex with 2 50% accuracy rings and I still miss often vs other archers, sins, and BMs.

@Thunder Shock Argument: I did say 10% is a small chance to proc. I never said I depended on it, I said that when it procs, its amazing. Sort of like Lunar Bow. Hardly ever procs, but when it does, i **** in my pants.

@Stunning Arrow Argument: 1 extra hit vs 10% crits. I'll take the 10% crits. I still stand by my point that archers are crit dependent. You used the example that the opponent cant simple AD after archers use this skill... same goes if a sage stuns. So in that scenario both sage/demon Stunning Arrow fails :P

@STA Argument: You make it seem in your argument that sage has 40% less damage to do while demon has to do full damage. Sage still has 16% debuff which is 32% with charm tick. That 10% crits can be added as damage amp because when equated into your damage, a 1%crit = 1% damage increase. so 32% + 10% = 42%. Of course, it all does depend on luck. Just depends how you wanna look at it. Once again, I will still stand by my crits

@Wingspan Argument: I do agree that 1 spark boost can be really helpful. This is pretty much the same argument about thunder shock. doesn't proc often, but when it does, its orgasmic. Only thing is that Sage thundershock add isn't as great as Demon Wingspan Add in my opinion, so I still say that a lvl 5 winged shell every 6 seconds is better than 1 spark every 1 out of 5 hits.

@Winged Blessing Argument: Seems like you're ignoring the demon adds and just focusing on the fact that sages get 2meters increase. Yes, I agree with your TW BoA point, but that's a very specific scenario.

@Other Arguments: I either agreed with you or you had just agreed with me.

Cheers ^^

Egaenil - Heavens Tear · July 2010

thunder shock extra few secs debuff doesnt really matter, since i'm using it in a macro anyway as soon as it is cool downed i use it again. and followed by lighting strike. and demon lighting strike is so much better, do you even pvp? or coz too much of claw you forgot how much archer can miss. Misses can be a huge problem at end game.

Take Aim sage is better but as you said so over rated

STAmeh.. for pve doesnt really matter once you have bv, i know bv 5mins cd sucked

in nirv can only use 2 max 3 times. but really in pvp the difference is so small ppl wont notice at all.

Aim Low demon is a lot better, when you sealed you can still pot up and use def charm etc etc, when you stuned, you cant do anything, and is it usfull? hell yea. when you try to pk against some bm with +12 nirv axe, yes it freaken helps a lot.

Winged Pledge helps a lot for demon, reason im saying this is.. when bm gets to you, they normally stun(use chi) use genie to amp so 99% of the time genie wont have chi for another holy path, so you can just slow them and get away. but this is only true in 1v1 pvp, if few bm got close to you.. well really nothing much u can do.

Barrage of Arrows are you kidding, demon is a lot better in pvp and pve, as zhadi said, ppl stun you 1st when they see you zhen in pvp, or sleeps you. No one will try to kill you to stop the zhen. Doesnt matter if you have reduced damage while at it, as soon as you get stunned, you loss that too. And for pve.. well you want to deal more damage there

b:laugh enjoy

Quilue - Sanctuary · July 2010

If you're going to assume TW setting, such that somehow you're caught in the middle of a group of enemies and thinking about using Wingspan, then that archer is doomed Demon or Sage. Forget Wingspan in that situation, mid cast you'd just get violated and die. Better swallow a Sutra and Holy Path out of there, honestly. Or better yet, watch your surroundings and not get surrounded by the other faction. TBH, I don't get to use Wingspan very often as most often when a heavy comes over to stun, I'm moving away. Totally not into getting close to anyone. There has been certain situations where a barb Holy Paths up to me and try to arma, and in that situation, Demon Wingspan was hilarious.

Demon Quickshot: again, if you're assuming TW setting, then your target could be stunned by someone else, or your target might not run and attempt to fight. Realistically, people don't always have time to run just because your stun has ended, they may not be at max range, they maybe be distracted and have someone else selected, (big surprise there since it's a TW) or they may be in the air.

Illyana - Dreamweaver · July 2010

In terms of PvP and evasion, I wanted to add a comment.

There is one fist BM on Dreamweaver whom I miss on a somewhat regular basis by the name of Auka-- it seems I always miss him when its most important.

That aside, I can't recall many instances where I was cursing a missed lightning strike, or any other skill for that matter. I too use 2 50% accuracy rings.

Illyana - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

A point about thundershock. I'm pretty sure the metal debuff is applied before the damage is applied. This means shock always benefits from its own debuff... really this skill is used often in a metal rotation so I don't think the debuff duration is all that important.

I wasn't aware this was the case; I'll do a bit of investigating and see what I can see. Any others have experience testing this?

Zhadi - Archosaur · July 2010

@Illyana and Asterelle: It would be silly if it wasn't applied for the skill itself to be honest, but its really hard to tell because you can't really check your opponents metal debuff for that split second before that skill lands

I really do hope it is applied, though o.o

@Egaenil: You should try Thunder Shock > Thunderous Blast > Lightning Strike. It makes breaking charms easier (: Thunder Shock doesn't tend to tick a charm unless you crit. So a long channel thunderous blast right afterwards will break it and then lightning strike and thunder shock again with a much faster channel. I used to follow the chain you said, but after trying it out many times, I finally realized that the one i just mentioned worked a lot better (:

@Quilue: I kite BMs so I agree with you on that. However, barbs are a different story. yes, I still don't just stand in place against them. I do kite them but not constantly because 1) they dont have as many stuns as the other two melees, and 2) they miss too much to break my charm more than not. That being said, I find myself using wingspan often in 1v1 fights vs barbs. It's just an extra shield every 6 seconds. Can't complain about that at all. Plus, it fills in the gap when your metal skills are on cooldown. Now, since sins came out, this skill has become one of my favorite. It truly is hard to kite them because they can lock you in place and their shadow teleport. This skill shines against them.

Examples "why you chose Sage or Demon"

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