Safety lock abuse

Yao - Raging Tide wrote: »

PKKS dun get anything, genious. And you can kill people how much you want and you dun get any penalization. b:bye

EDIT: PLUS > The protection scroll on boutique is useless!

Guardian Scrolls also prevent the loss of experience. When you're level 100 or something, that little % you lose is quite a bit.

The original purpose of safety lock was to have a grace period where you can't lose any items. This was to prevent any hackers from logging onto your account and just taking everything. If safety lock allowed for items to be dropped, said hacker could just turn you red and get pked over and over until you lost everything.

With this safety lock, if you suspected or were aware of someone using your account without your permission, you could have some time to contact a GM before all your items got lost.

At least, that was the original intent and what I recall stated by a GM.

Ever heard of the shatter system? they already penalize pkers and its completely unfair imo. we already have to spend money trying to protect our gear because of increased drop rate, now we also have to spend MORE money repairing it.... whoop-dee-dooooo

Not abuse, it is part of the game mechanic.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=368092

rhapsodus wrote: »

I fail to understand how this is unfair. If you're randomly killing people, there needs to be an incentive to stop. Having your gear not even dropping because of safety lock is already a huge ++ for rpkers. Paying up a few mirages is a very, very small price to pay.

um duh.... PvP Server = PK
deal with it.
Hey guys! Lets all not kill each other on a PvP server cuz I don't want to die you pkers are meanies. I don't want to reroll on a carebear server
QQ moar
b:bye

I think you shouldn't drop items when you PK period.

The function of the scroll was there to earn PW a cash flow from people who wanted to pk and not lose anything.

If you pk you lose track of time...your safety turns off...you may lose something..you have to relog...

you want to log in real fast and send something to another character shop...etc...you can't you have to wait. (yeah yeah...you can set up a password...blah once again a inconvenience.)

The function in and of itself is flawed. And in the end designed to make you want to eventually buy something... There will be a few exceptions of course.

I believe people would be more apt (especially on PvE servers) to PK if there wasn't a chance to drop something. And the inconvenience of the safety lock.

People like convenience...and that's truth...look at all the cash shoppers.....

rhapsodus wrote: »

Where does it say I'm QQing about PKed? I play on your server, and not once have I cried to someone for getting PKed.

What I'm saying is that having no penalty encourages farming of lowbies, because there's no risk of losing items to high level people coming to kick your ****. There's also no incentive for people to come kick your **** because there's no chance of you dropping items to them.

It makes you think twice before killing some random noob.

Hey guys! I want to PK you guys but I don't want to risk losing my items by when I get PKed back! I know I'm doing something detrimental to your progress, but I don't think I should be penalized for that!

Go "QQ moar" about wanting risk-free PKing. You just want to PK the **** out of other people without running the risk of losing anything yourself.


b:bye

your saying that pkers need even MORE hindrance... pkers already have an increased chance of dropping items = paying real money to pk. if you use safety lock you can barely do anything besides pk while it's on, and you have an increased chance of shattering while pking, then when safety lock goes off if you don't have scrolls you either relog so that safety lock is on again and you can't do anything but kill more, or w8 out your red name. plus if your gear shatters then that = spending more money to fix it.

If no items dropped while pking then there would almost be no reward for pking nor for pking pkers... so if they did turn off loss of items then they would need to buff the shatter system so that white name players had a chance of shattering so that pkers got some reward, but then increase the chance of a pker shattering to give PKKs a chance at a reward, then everyone could just be forced to carry around protection scrolls to avoid shattering. sound better? b:chuckle

EDIT: shatter chance is increased while safety lock is on btw... thats there to try to keep people from pking so much with it on.... I REALLY do not think I should be forced to pay to kill just becuz some carebear gets angry cuz he doesn't think that pkers aren't punished enough

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It is an exploit, but your solution doesnt work either. When safety lock didnt protect your items in PK, hackers could get your account info, and if they found it safety locked, just bring it out & PK the hell out of it to get the stuff. In fact thats what did occur. So they enabled PK protection of safety lock so it would do its job, which is not allowing unauthorized people to take your stuff. However now people abuse it as a PK protection. They cant remove the PK protection or safety lock as a whole is worthless due to the account stealer PK trick.

I remember those crazy cats who tried to abuse the shatter system when it came out by getting a char wearing merch gear with safety lock on and red name to be pked until shattered mah hah.

rhapsodus wrote: »

So basically, you want to PK others for fun, but you don't want them to come back and whoop your **** and take your stuff. Is that it?

You're advocating risk-free beatings?

The whole point of an increased drop rate while you're red was to act as a punishment for those who kill white names - people who don't kill other people. Consider yourself an "outlaw" of sorts killing "civilians". Even by allowing items such as binding scrolls and guardian scrolls is a HUGE gain for PKers. No chance of dropping nirvana and lunar glade gear? That's as risk free as it gets.

What I'm saying is, you're not paying to PK. You're paying to circumvent the usual consequences that follow from PKing. That's a price you have to pay, if you want to avoid the consequences, in my opinion.

Are you really that ignorant? Pkers already have to pay a ton of money to stay protected to pk and you pk for the fun of it! Why else would you do anything in a videogame??? I think pkers need more of a reward for killing people, maybe give a small exp and sp gain per kill or something. It will be more incentive to pk, but maybe if some1 x levels higher than you kills you, they get nothing. That might help keep people from killing lobies so much when if they kill some1 closer to their level they could get mirages and exp

rhapsodus wrote: »

Reading comprehension please.

This is what happens when you go PKing.

1. Don't use safety lock, binding scrolls and guardian scrolls. You don't pay for jack, but you run the risk of losing your items.

2. Use safety lock, binding scrolls, guardian scrolls. You pay for mirages if you shatter and you pay for the scrolls, but you don't run the risk of losing your items.

You are NOT paying to PK. You ARE paying to CIRCUMVENT the consequences of PKing.

That is entirely a personal choice, and by no way is anybody forcing you to protect yourself. PKing is inherently free, meaning there is no fee to go PK someone. The only time you have to pay is when you want to remove the risk of losing your items, which once again, IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

This is a TRANSACTION. The PK system discourages killing white named players who are going about their own business, which is something that is modelled in almost every MMO. The point of this system is to discourage the camping of low-level questing areas, and to prevent high levels from farming low levels just for kicks. Just by allowing you to go around this discouragement is already a major gain to PKers. You are PAYING to REMOVE the RISK.

Consider the costs.

You're paying for what, 200k for a binding scroll, to prevent a 70m item from dropping.

For spending 200k, you're saving yourself 70m. That is a HUGE gain.

Once again.

You don't HAVE to pay. You CHOOSE to pay.

The way I see it, you just want to dish out the hurt without it reciprocating back to you.

How about I propose a system similar to yours. If you kill players relatively close to your level, they lose a percentage of their experience and give it to you.

That's incentive to PK, no?

PS. How much does it cost to fully bind your equips? You honestly think that's a big fee to pay, to protect your items forever? I think you're the ignorant one here.

lmao. if you bind your equip then you can never sell it, that means that ur investment in your equip is lost and it becomes 100% worthless and it can STILL shatter.... So what your saying is that you want pkers to P2P even more than they already do? No matter how you PK right now you have a very good chance of being forced to spend something... if you are killed you either 1) shatter 2) drop items 3) use a scroll < all of which cost MONEY.

White name players lose NOTHING. If you are killed by a pker just get over it. Or go and kill pkers and hope to get something or make them waste their money. The system is against PKers already.

Aelric - Lost City wrote: »

lmao. if you bind your equip then you can never sell it, that means that ur investment in your equip is lost and it becomes 100% worthless and it can STILL shatter.... So what your saying is that you want pkers to P2P even more than they already do? No matter how you PK right now you have a very good chance of being forced to spend something... if you are killed you either 1) shatter 2) drop items 3) use a scroll < all of which cost MONEY.

White name players lose NOTHING. If you are killed by a pker just get over it. Or go and kill pkers and hope to get something or make them waste their money. The system is against PKers already.

You're telling me you're going to resell your nirvana equips? Or any of your endgame gear? Chances are you're keeping it, hence the word endgame. If you have no intentions of reselling them, then your opportunity cost is 0. You gain by binding them.

You are just thinking of accounting cost, that is explicit costs. You're not thinking about the money you save by not having your gear drop.

Again:

Cost of Guardian Scroll, 200k? I don't even know anymore, everyone uses safety lock which is free.

Cost of equips saved from dropping:
For me this would be,

TT90 set +3
TT90 axes +3
Misty Forest Ring
Demon Slaughter Belt
Random ****

All of this totals WAY higher than 200k. The amount you save is ridiculous compared to the amount you spend. If you really are a hardcore PKer, you shouldn't even be batting an eyelash at a guardian scroll. You are saving tens of times more than you are spending.

For sure, I'm in agreement that the system in place currently is against PKers, as it should be. It discourages people from camping low level quest areas and farming low level players. However, you seem to still be advocating for risk free lowbie farming. Again, guardian scrolls, safety lock, binding scrolls are already as risk free as PVP can get. 10 Mirages pales in comparison to having a +10 Neon Purgatory dropping.

Be happy you won 3rd prize at the lottery. Don't QQ about not winning the jackpot.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sigh, Rap. You forget to calculate that there are more then just end game PvP'ers. 200k could be a lot of coin to lower level first character players. Let them play the game....

Also its 200k for one scroll according to you. You expect to only die one time when you're outside west arch PK'n? I highly doubt that. Unless of course you're high level with mega refines. Then of course you will have coin to spend.



Binding equipment wouldn't be so bad if you could actually farm equipment in a descent amount of time. Instead we are left with getting good equips and then resell later.

Safety lock is an inconvenience. Why not just take away the penalty to PK instead.....

As pk rewards it would be simple. Let PvP kills give you rep. No rep for player kills far below your level. More rep for pvp kills of higher level players.

there will always be people who kill low levels for a minute or two. You really can't remove human nature.

PvP in the game is flawed. And needs an update. Let people play the game without so many determent's.

i definitely like this. rep is so impossible to get so it would be perfect if you could get it from pking.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sigh, Rap. You forget to calculate that there are more then just end game PvP'ers. 200k could be a lot of coin to lower level first character players. Let them play the game....

Also its 200k for one scroll according to you. You expect to only die one time when you're outside west arch PK'n? I highly doubt that. Unless of course you're high level with mega refines. Then of course you will have coin to spend.



Binding equipment wouldn't be so bad if you could actually farm equipment in a descent amount of time. Instead we are left with getting good equips and then resell later.

Safety lock is an inconvenience. Why not just take away the penalty to PK instead.....

As pk rewards it would be simple. Let PvP kills give you rep. No rep for player kills far below your level. More rep for pvp kills of higher level players.

there will always be people who kill low levels for a minute or two. You really can't remove human nature.

PvP in the game is flawed. And needs an update. Let people play the game without so many determent's.

Once again.

PK penalty system is to discourage the killing of those who are white named and minding their own business.

It might be fun for you to camp their quest area, but for them, getting **** ***** over and over again isn't exactly fun. For sure, this is a PVP server, and they need to suck it up. Take a chill pill, watch a movie, take a leak and come back and try again. But there's only so many leaks you can take before you run out of patience.

Running somewhat of a risk of losing something is to discourage people from banding up and camping quest areas. And if they do, they know in the back of their head people can come and kill them, and they might lose something.

Removing this penalty just encourages me to group up with a bunch of friends and farm lower level people for rep. It doesn't even have to be a huge gap in levels. 100's take on 90's. 90's take on 80's. 80's take on 70's. As you hit 60's and 70's, there's a huge gear difference every 10 levels.

Not to mention, PK rewards such as rep wouldn't make much of a difference to who people are PKing. Even with just a simple shatter system, 9x's are RPKing level 30's outside secret passage. For whatever reason, people like killing other people. All is fine and dandy, but if there's a reward for me hindering your progress, there's something wrong. If I don't get penalized for camping your quest spot, something is wrong.

This isn't just about human nature anymore. Advocating encouragement of people to do things that are detrimental to other people's gaming experience shows a lack of foresight. Being on a PVP server doesn't mean getting rolled by people 10 levels higher than you.

And the funny thing is, having simply PK penalties such as shattering doesn't stop people from PVPing.

Look before all the Hyper frost, BH jazz. People were out crashing zhen parties and world bosses. PVP isn't dead because you lose a couple mirages here and there. PVP is dead because everybody's gone levelling inside BH and frost. There's nobody left to PK.

Finally, you're right. PVP isn't just endgame. But guess what? Safety lock is free. You're saying it makes you unable to do anything while you're under it, but if you're PKing, I don't think you'll be doing any
TT runs any time soon. That also seems like a fair price to me for keeping your TT90 gear in check.

===

Look. I'm on a PVP server. I'm too poor to afford scrolls or binds. I use safety lock. And every time I shatter, I don't think to myself, "damn I have to cough up 10 mirages". I think "thank god I had safety lock on, that could have been my axes". Honestly, I don't think paying 10 mirages is too much to save your gear if it is that precious to you.

There's an option for lower level PKing right here. It doesn't advocate farming of lower levels. It somewhat discourages people from camping white names. It hinders red names who kill white names to no end. And it saves red names from losing their gear. Why do you need to change it to a PKer's utopia and a beginner's hell?

My point being, IM NOT AGAINST SAFETY LOCK. I am against the removal of PK penalties in the game.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:byeb:bye

You're assuming no rep for killing people far lower than you is a discouragement. But it's not. It's simply not encouragement.

No rep for killing people far lower than you is not actually a cost to the PKer. They don't lose anything by farming them. They just don't gain. This ties into your human nature part. They are able to fully actualize their nature because there is no discouragement, whereas before, there is a potential cost for doing something detrimental to another player.

Secondly, true, people will kill lowbies regardless. But further pushing it so that people are able to do so without any costs is going to raise the amount of people who actually do it.

Let's say right now, 5 people are farming 3x because they are bored, and 5 people aren't because they don't want to turn red and shatter. Notice all 10 people want to kill 3x's, but 5 of them don't because of potential losses.

If you remove this penalty, all 10 people will be farming 3x's. The point being, they don't lose anything. They may not necessarily gain (in your example, rep), but they certainly don't have to forego anything.

Honestly, I don't see why you guys think 10 mirages is so much to pay for saving a TT90. Most people on Lost City just complain about the PK pots and charms they need to buy. They thank the lords for being able to pay a small price to save their gear. Some of the older MMO's people used to play didn't even have these, and people just straight dropped all their gear. Funny though, PK areas were thronged with people.

Again, it's like winning 3rd prize in the lottery and QQing you didn't win the jackpot.

rhapsodus wrote: »

You're assuming no rep for killing people far lower than you is a discouragement. But it's not. It's simply not encouragement.

No rep for killing people far lower than you is not actually a cost to the PKer. They don't lose anything by farming them. They just don't gain. This ties into your human nature part. They are able to fully actualize their nature because there is no discouragement, whereas before, there is a potential cost for doing something detrimental to another player.

Secondly, true, people will kill lowbies regardless. But further pushing it so that people are able to do so without any costs is going to raise the amount of people who actually do it.

Let's say right now, 5 people are farming 3x because they are bored, and 5 people aren't because they don't want to turn red and shatter. Notice all 10 people want to kill 3x's, but 5 of them don't because of potential losses.

If you remove this penalty, all 10 people will be farming 3x's. The point being, they don't lose anything. They may not necessarily gain (in your example, rep), but they certainly don't have to forego anything.

Honestly, I don't see why you guys think 10 mirages is so much to pay for saving a TT90. Most people on Lost City just complain about the PK pots and charms they need to buy. They thank the lords for being able to pay a small price to save their gear. Some of the older MMO's people used to play didn't even have these, and people just straight dropped all their gear. Funny though, PK areas were thronged with people.

Again, it's like winning 3rd prize in the lottery and QQing you didn't win the jackpot.

I will point out again not all people who PvP are high levels. 10 mirages per piece is a lot to a level 3x.

I know on established servers rounding up 120k to buy 10 mirages from Catshops wouldn't really be hard. But 120k @ lvl 3x is a lot. On new servers where are they even supposed to get mirages?? From the cash shop...sigh.. TT runs wouldn't be run till level 6x. And no level 100 running bh's and selling their mirages.

Will people decompose 3star...wasn't that nerfed...

IDK maybe i just think to much.

I don't see turning red named as a deterrent, cause you might drop something or higher chance for equipment shatter. If people want to PK lower levels they will regardless.

In other games you say people drop everything. I would also assume that gaining gear back wouldn't be a really long and expensive process. I know there are other games where you can PvP and you have no equipment penalties. And people kill low levels in it (and this has been my observation i play a PvP server) less or maybe equivalent to PWI.

PvP is supposed to be part of the game and should be fun. Having penalties to deter you from fun...isn't fun....

I PvP'd on this PvE server for a few day's. I had a really good time. I found it expensive. I stopped.

But this subject is actually very pointless. PWE isn't going to do anything that would deter people from opening their pocket book. They wouldn't want to take the business "RISK". It's too bad. I think there would be a lot of positives that would come about by them changing this format.

Edit:

My end point is they should be influencing you to play the game and have enjoyment. The money will come.