Impossible to independantly craft

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2010

Moonwraith - Harshlands wrote: »

At the moment I'm enjoying the game immensely, with one exception - the totally impossible crafting system with regards to new players.

For example. Level 3 Craftsman (Jewelcrafting) requires Purified Oil, so too does other level 3 crafting speicalisations. Now I checked pwdatabase.com for mobs that drop Purified Oil and noticed that, not only are the drop rates horrendous, but the placement of Purified Oil on the mob drop tables is terrible too.

I'm level 20 (or I was when I started this farming) and want to do the level 3 Craftsman, which requires quite a few Purified Oils, notwithstanding also wanting to level up the other crafting professions. I noted several mobs in my level range 20 to 24, and tootled off to go farm the Purified Oils.

I killed over 208 mobs over the course of a few hours, and got a measly 11 Purified Oils. In the interim, I gained 2 levels, and as an Assassin with tissue paper armor and defence, I spent over 16K on HP and Manna pots, for a lousy 11 Purified Oils in return. After paying Repair bills and the money on the pots, I made 14K from drops.

I tried the Auction House, but Purified Oil is a minimum 4K per oil, and after sorting through the millions of lag inducing Cat Shops in Archo, the lowest price I could get Purified Oil is 2.5K each. New players just cannot afford those prices, and cannot afford to spend hours on end farming mobs with disgusting drop rates.

I was told the drop rate on Purified Oil is much better from the level 33 Tiger Striped Araenids, but what chance does a paper armored Assassin level 22 have of farming those? How can I possibly progress through level 3 crafting with such an abominable drop rate of Purified Oil, and that's just one resource.

Drop rates on crafting items need to be increased, to aid crafters to progress, and to stop the ungodly stupid prices being asked on the AH and in Cat Shops, as a low drop rate increases the prices people ask for such items, and ruins the economy.

This is a new player's perspective. I have little money to spend on crafting as it is , due to my large repair bills and HP/Manna pots use. I'm not like other established players on the server, who think nothing of paying half a million coin to level up their crafting profession, money is tight enough for new players as it is.

New player victim id say.

Thing is, new content to lvl may be added but the old content quests do not change. Same with this quest that had been here since 2008. All the drops that use to be abundant because LVLing=grinding/questing/killing a crapton of mobs over several months, are now pretty much rare because of the BHs/Marriage Quests/FCC

I killed over 208 mobs over the course of a few hours, and got a measly 11 Purified Oils.

Yeah these things use to go on for days and months (grinding) therefore pple had no probs really getting the mats cause it was the norm to do it so much then.

I guess the faster lvling does start to show its effects even here too ;/
The drop rate was fair. its just now pple dont kill as much mobs now so there are few items out there.

drakuns · July 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Find a better post to quote next time and its TWILIGHT TEMPLE and not TOMB, learn to use your caps lock key and get yourself to high enough level to start commenting on whether NIRVANA is easier to make than a mere PURGATORIAN ENFORCER ARMOR.

You have no proof of these special equips being far cheaper than normal gears. And don't try mocking me with LVL30 and LVL100. OFC LVL30 gears that are decent is easy to make even though those levels are quick. But its even easier to make TT60 weapons than LVL30+ equipment because of drop rates.

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/5531

% of at least decent stats are below 10% since its randomized, its likely 10 crafted Fallen Phoenix Cross bow to successfully make a decent one.

Drop rate of superior leather? A mere 2% on average meaning 50 mobs per kill. To make a bow with leather alone is literally 750 mobs. Literally 850 of killing mobs JUST for all the drop materials. Multiply that by 10 and you need to kill 8.5k mobs just to make one decent ***Fallen Phoenix Crossbow when you could spend a lot less time getting a TT weapon like soul snatcher. also the numbers are not always going to be this accurate since its based on luck. Most likely you might have to kill like a couple thousand more and craft even more. Unless if you want to either take 100 mobs at a time or take forever just for crafted gears, go ahead. I am pretty sure your using either TT99, 90 or nirvana weapon for your level. Its impossible to farm the gears on your own unless you have too much time or money. To make a great normal piece of equipment will be close to impossible to obtain because there is a higher chance of getting special gears that are superior to crafted gears.

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Uhh...I do believe the increased "worthlessness" of crafted items has more to do with increased mold drops due to more BH runs and the increase in higher leveled players. Not really the original mechanics.

When I began playing it was the norm to see people wearing 2 star gear, crafted or picked up from drops, for at least some of their armour pieces. Some people were lucky to have molds, hardcore players could go nearly full legendary, but usually relied on quest rewards/crafted things . This was up to level 70, where the ones who wanted the "best" gear began farming TT70. USING armour crafted for high levels was always kinda obsolete, as it should be. The game had to encourage you to do instances more at higher levels. People just farmed the mats and leveled up their skills to manufacture instance gear.

This was only ever an issue for level 1-6x players, as far as using the gear. It was worthwhile back then in that level range because you could get some of the best gear available that way. If you got a -chan bonus or something cool, it could sell for tons on the AH, and those sections in the AH were far more active.

The game has changed to introduce far more molds for lower levels, and many more easy options that don't require crafting levels for high levels [i.e. pack gear]. Now, one could say the same thing about quests as well: quest gear rewards aren't "worth it", quests take too long compared to hyper exp, etc etc.

In short, the other implementations in the game have lessened the importance of crafting's "worth" but it has always been accessible, doable, and great for the casual player. I'd rather see a change to packs and have them stop nerfing things than to make crafting "more worthwhile"

Ah, the good old days... When gold sold for 100k, and I bought my first GG charm... I was so damn happy! Was a very special feeling. Now I swallow them too damn fast lol!

Anyways... Back on subject - Crafting has never had any practical significance besides leveling crafting skills to make high level gear. As such I suppose the very point of it is that you have to struggle to be able to make that gear, and in that struggle you might just get lucky with some pieces of gear. I know I made a couple of nice 3 and 2 star items when leveling my crafting skills to lvl 7 - and all the other levels too for that matters.

And as said in the quote above - molds are available already from lvl 19!!! And besides - you don't need to focus on super gear till later in the game. Lvl 50+ it begins to have a huge significance. You level really really fast till 50. Especially after 30 (CS begins), and 40 (BH begins). I remember my cleric leveled past those levels so fast at lvl 50 I still had some quests back from lvl 3x - I litterally had tons of quest!

But - yes, drop rates for all mats but metal, ore, coal and wood, are all quite horrible - because it's not meant to be the way you get your gear. The chances of getting something good is equally low, so only if you are leveling crafting skills or gathering huge stockpiles just for the joy of crafting, you won't get much luck.

ALSO - due to the lack of elemental protection on many manufactured gears I highly recommend you check that with the normal NPC gear before using it. Full elemental stats really mean a lot - especially for physical characters (Trust me - I know from highly painful experiences!)...

Anyways, as stated already - you are on a PK server - no matter if you have super gear at lvl 30, the 60+ people will still one-shoot you. Better to spend the time saving money for lvl 50-60 and focus on leveling. XP comes faster than you would think!

CandyCorn - Raging Tide · July 2010

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All I gotta say is; you can't have it all. o.o;;;

Why does everyone complain about EVERYTHING. The game isn't SUPPOSED to be easy. Ya'll got enough handed to you now. =D Just keep farmin. at lelve 20ish you don't need levle 3 crafting anyway.

Because its a "Perfect World" everything suppose to be perfect

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You hit on one of the main issues I have with mmos. The high levels completely ignore low levels and instead focus on making prices as high as they possibly can in the name of greed.

When low levels can't afford things they need, there is a major problem.

As you craft though, you may possibly find your crafting level exceeds your character level and you can't even level the crafting more until your character reaches a certain level. You must be level 50 to reach level 4 in crafting, level 80 to reach level 6 and level 100 to reach 8.

-looks at back at forums- yup

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For all those who said that crafting is not necessary, or to just have guild members craft for you... .

For those of you who said (quote) that crafting is not necessary, or to just have a guild member craft for you (end quote), er how do you think they got to a high crafting lvl

(think ).

Yindra - Sanctuary · July 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

New player victim id say.

Thing is, new content to lvl may be added but the old content quests do not change. Same with this quest that had been here since 2008. All the drops that use to be abundant because LVLing=grinding/questing/killing a crapton of mobs over several months, are now pretty much rare because of the BHs/Marriage Quests/FCC

Yeah these things use to go on for days and months (grinding) therefore pple had no probs really getting the mats cause it was the norm to do it so much then.

That is SO not right.

I don't do BHs, Marriage Quests or FCCs --- still trying to figure out whether I might have a chance with the quests there.

I DO, however, stockpile every material that I come across.

And I STILL have huge material deficiencies. Still need to do Blacksmith lvl 4 --- material NEEDs for these are insane, droprates are non-existent considering that the drop penalty doesn't exactly help either, and the tailor ate a ton of materials before giving me the items. This is going to be an expensive Blacksmith skill :-(

Lvl 5 Craftsman already made a noticeable dent in my lvl 5 material collection --- despite choosing the cheapest recipe, instead of one that might yield a useful item.

Sure, I WQ a lot, considering that killing monsters doesn't really give experience. But that started at lvl 70, so it didn't really affect my collections of lvl 4 and 5 materials.

Even with the cash shop as an explanation for the droprates and drop penalty, it still reeks of filthy ripoffs --- I don't think those "**" items for the quests appear more often just because someone bought the materials in the cash shop...

To the threadstarter: when going for the lvl 4, read about the quests first. Don't just make random items, that will just waste materials for nothing.

Katzyn - Sanctuary · July 2010

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

That is SO not right.

I don't do BHs, Marriage Quests or FCCs --- still trying to figure out whether I might have a chance with the quests there.

I DO, however, stockpile every material that I come across.

And I STILL have huge material deficiencies. Still need to do Blacksmith lvl 4 --- material NEEDs for these are insane, droprates are non-existent considering that the drop penalty doesn't exactly help either, and the tailor ate a ton of materials before giving me the items. This is going to be an expensive Blacksmith skill :-(

Lvl 5 Craftsman already made a noticeable dent in my lvl 5 material collection --- despite choosing the cheapest recipe, instead of one that might yield a useful item.

Sure, I WQ a lot, considering that killing monsters doesn't really give experience. But that started at lvl 70, so it didn't really affect my collections of lvl 4 and 5 materials.

Even with the cash shop as an explanation for the droprates and drop penalty, it still reeks of filthy ripoffs --- I don't think those "**" items for the quests appear more often just because someone bought the materials in the cash shop...

To the threadstarter: when going for the lvl 4, read about the quests first. Don't just make random items, that will just waste materials for nothing.

I think you may have missed her point...

She's saying because fewer people are grinding/questing, and doing bhs/MQ/FCC to level, fewer crafting items are in circulation. If there were more crafting items in circluation, then they wouldn't be quite as expensive, and people would be more likely yo be able to afford them if they didn't have the time to farm them out themselves.

Of course you're having definiencies - everyone is now, because, as we said, unlike you, most people don't grind/quest anymore.

--

I, personally, don't have any craftsman abilities, other than apoth. My hubby makes all my gear for me, and over the levels, I've helped him get the materials for leveling his crafting by farming the items with him. It still took weeks for him and I to farm out all he needed, but we got it done, and we both benefit from his skill levels.

Telarith - Sanctuary · July 2010

First character gained lvl 6 and 7 crafts/blacksmith/tailor by grinding the mobs for the mats, ended up choosing what I fought based off of drops until I did cleric solo AoE grinding. This was before Dec 2008, before OHT even was here. Didn't seem a problem at the time getting the mats, and I was making 1 mil + in coin drops per day at 7X range. So can't say there was an issue there.

Made a BM on Lost City server, and despite 'wasting' purified oil on making fists and claws due to preference, I am still leveling up all 4 of my craft skills with no real problem. And if going coin route, grind on antelope pups and sell the hay drops for coin to get the oil. Again, there is no problem.

When someone can gain the mats they need, or coing to do it in a pretty fast amount of time, there is not an imbalance. Since I did just recently create a character on another server, I can state with absolute surety that they are simply doing it the wrong way. They should ask for ways to improve their ability to gain their needed mats, instead of decrying foul on the drop rate.

They are likely also confused on how to level it properly. Lvl 1 and 2 crafts can be leveled up just using lowest grade mats, which purified oil is not one of. I wasted oil to get good claws made, but still am managing just fine with a good bank account starting. At 30 they get rank armor, and only at lvl 3+ craft must they use purified oil. For farming oil itself, the centipex around orchid are what I aimed for. Make a large amount of life powders to lvl apothecary, and then use them to farm for your oils. Then use the two lvl 1 herbs not used in making them, to combine with the next grade herbs to finish your lvl 2 apoth.

Find the cheapest weapon/armor/ring to make to lvl your craft, and only spend 1 or 2 to try making an item for yourself. If you want more, you're going to either sacrifice more time or coins to get the extra mats. Offer to craft other people's molds for free, or pay a small fee to do so. This will be a cheap method to do it. Later offer to craft people's TT.

Zoe just once again shot off at the keyboard without thinking. What I worry about, is a game where new and ignorant players can come on and do just as good as knowledgeable established ones. Any game like that, lacks so much depth it is utterly worthless.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

moghedian13 wrote: »

Stop grinding for the oil specifically (huge pain) and instead grind for cash. Then set up your own cat shop to buy for a reasonable price. If an item is sold in several catshops for 4K then you can set one up to buy for 2 or 2.5K and buy them easily or for a little cheaper and it will just take a little more patience.

^^^^ This.

The game is not tuned for a single player. That would defeat the purpose of making an MMO. The game is tuned so the total number of oil obtained by all players and not sold to NPCs is enough to sustain the subset of players who do crafting. By artificially limiting yourself to oil you get as drops, you are making the game about 10x harder than it is supposed to be. You are not getting much sympathy because your situation is self-inflicted.

Think of it as the party game where everyone picks a number from a hat. You then have to run around and find the one person with a matching number, first pair to find each other wins. That's how mat drops work. You kill stuff, get some mats you need, some mats you don't need. Other people kill stuff, get some mats they need (but you don't), some mats they don't need (but you do). You then have to find each other and trade those mats.

Easiest way to find each other is via cat shop or auction house. If you're extremely price-sensitive (like Zoe), I would recommend you follow the quote above and set up a cat shop buying the stuff you need - you'll pay significantly less than market prices. Don't be afraid to spend coin to buy what you need if it'll save you a bunch of time. It's not some rare item you'll never find again. Practically everything drops coin.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · July 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^^^ This.

The game is not tuned for a single player. That would defeat the purpose of making an MMO. The game is tuned so the total number of oil obtained by all players and not sold to NPCs is enough to sustain the subset of players who do crafting. By artificially limiting yourself to oil you get as drops, you are making the game about 10x harder than it is supposed to be. You are not getting much sympathy because your situation is self-inflicted.

Think of it as the party game where everyone picks a number from a hat. You then have to run around and find the one person with a matching number, first pair to find each other wins. That's how mat drops work. You kill stuff, get some mats you need, some mats you don't need. Other people kill stuff, get some mats they need (but you don't), some mats they don't need (but you do). You then have to find each other and trade those mats.

Easiest way to find each other is via cat shop or auction house. If you're extremely price-sensitive (like Zoe), I would recommend you follow the quote above and set up a cat shop buying the stuff you need - you'll pay significantly less than market prices. Don't be afraid to spend coin to buy what you need if it'll save you a bunch of time. It's not some rare item you'll never find again. Practically everything drops coin.

I see your point but I disagree with it completely. This just makes the game biased towards few certain people, which already it is. Games where a fraction of the player base have above-average "wealth" in assets (whatever that is, services included like crafting), while 90% are below the median (I think is how it's called in english) is what leads to death in most games when the majority gets fed up with it. Of course, with that, the amount of "crafters" in the game would be limited, like I said.

Server "aging" is one of these problems also, because of the old-timers versus the influx of new players who feel discouraged. It is one of the inherent problems in MMOs and yet you support it. I don't know what to say.

In urban-speech: It is bull**** for 90% of the people to have below-average assets and rely on the rest.

You want to know why it fails? Compare chinese people's standard of living with western people and you'll see which one would rather "quit" his life.

Rillien - Heavens Tear · July 2010

But most of these problems come from people refusing to see that x amount of coin is equal to that one mat, as determined by the market.

It may be difficult to solo grind for mats for all 4 crafting skills [I managed to solo grind enough to level up tailoring all the way and Bsmith level 4; that was enough for me and really easy just by grinding for levels back then]. However--the mobs aren't just dropping mats. They are dropping DQs, coins, sometimes armour and weapons. These can be sold to other players or NPCs and then you pay your repairs and take that leftover coin and BUY the crafting mats you want.

This is VERY doable. Even with DQ price reduction. You may need to slow down your leveling a bit but I would assume that someone who wants to explore the crafting aspect of the game isn't too rushed to hyperstone everything so it doesn't seem too much to ask. There are many mobs at low levels known for being especially profitable. Pick those and worry less about the crafting specifically, more about the total amount of coin you're generating and using profit to buy what you want.

azurluen · July 2010

Moonwraith - Harshlands wrote: »

otherwise I was advised to start a Venomancer purely for farming mats, and what a waste of time and energy that would be.

I have some Venos on diferent levels, so I farm mats that I need from mobs, being at same levels to increase drop rate and such. [2x, 4x, 6x and 8x]

=o_O=

Aubree - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Grind coin to buy the gold that buys the mats on a mat sale, or buy the crafting packs that are in boutique. This game is cash shop dependent.

Longknife - Harshlands · July 2010

Moonwraith - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm the OP, and think that, with the exception of Astrohawke, what a bunch of sorry ****'d losers you lot really are.

Here I am, posting a reasonable argument for an increase in drop table crafting items, and all you can think of is boo hoo, cry cry.

This is true. People do act like douchebags in this game.

Having said that though, that's how the game is. The game didn't price purified oils; the players did. Of course prices could plummet and crafting could be easy if they increased the drop rates, but just try to see the bright side in everything. Low drop rates means that getting level 4 of a crafting skill is something special, and you'll be useful to your friends and guild should they need something made. If EVERYONE could easily get level 8 of all four crafting jobs, then you'd end up asking yourself what's the point of having them to begin with.

Last MMO I played, the "rare" weapons were more common than the NPC gear drop-wise. The result was that everyone ran around with top-notch gear, and sometimes I sat and thought about how it might be more interesting if the game actually had items that only a lucky few owned. PWI fulfills that wish.

Take my advice: focus on one crafting skill and give it your all. Once you manage to get it to level four, focus on another. When you get higher, it gets easier to pay the bills for getting the level fours, and level 4 pretty much is the most difficult level to get. There's sort of a surplus of higher level mats, so if you can just get over this hump here then you shouldn't have any more problems.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · July 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

In urban-speech: It is bull**** for 90% of the people to have below-average assets and rely on the rest.

I'll start off by saying that I actually agree with the statement that basic crafting mats are far too rare and/or expensive.

Early on it was fun to try to craft weapons/armour I'd actually want to use. For example, I'd craft a 2-star pair of axes and be thrilled. But soon it became clear that the majority of the player base was only crafting for the sake of improving their skills, and thus they'd drive up the price of mats past the value of the items you could actually make.

So I'd sell the mats and then just buy somebody else's crafted item for less than what it would have cost me to make myself.

Now, the thing is, that's just not as much fun. Yeah, I could afford it, and yeah it made rational sense, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand how the market works and all. But in the end crafting was a worthless chore.

It would be nice to somehow have crafting as a cheap way to make decent equipment for yourself, but I don't think there's any way to really do this unless you somehow have a mechanism to drain the market of all the items that people keep making. Otherwise the ever-growing supply of already-made items is always going to make the price of the mats more expensive than the items themselves.

And that brings me back to your point about the rich 10% vs. the poor 90%. Any time you have a free market that allows people to trade things freely for whatever price they want you're going to inevitably end up with that 10% vs. 90% split.

Why? For the exact same reason that I looked at the price of mats vs. the price of the items and decided, "Oh well, I guess I'll just sell the mats and buy the items." Even though it wasn't what I would have liked or preferred, I was willing to adapt to the reality of the market that others had created.

Being flexible and adapting myself to the economic reality that others have created has put me in that top 10%. When people in the 90% ask me, "Can you sell me <whatever> for less because you're so rich?" and I reply, "No, but I can teach you how to get it for the same price I paid," they almost inevitably get mad, call me greedy, and then continue to be a voluntary member of that 90%.

Telarith - Sanctuary · July 2010

Except the whole argument that without crafting you have sub-average gear is bull **** itself. There is the AH, where I got much of my BM's armor before getting molds from AH later, where they had amazing adds and it was very cheap to get. Whether it was crafted, or dropped from bosses, this gear was better than I had ever crafted myself. Not having crafts leveled up does not mean your gear is below average.

Daggster - Lost City · July 2010

actually u mostly don't need the crafting skills! yes they might be useful but u can always ask some guild-mates that have them all so u can safe millions of coins on mats or lots of time of farming mats!

the onlything u might rly need the crafting for is when u want to craft nirvana gears out of your hh99 and u already used your hh99 stuff(which is auto bound after using)

i think that the packs offered on the cs aren't a bad idea to lvl some of your crafting skills like blacksmith and tailor. If u lvl those by crafting u sure need the same amount of coins that you would have to spend for gold form the ah to get those boxes.

ofc it would be nicer if the mats would be cheaper ... but that's business! I made coins form lvl 1-60 by selling mats.

The onlything quite easy to lvl up crafting skill is the apothecary skill and i think this one is also adviseable to lvl since u can make some pretty nice pots, specially with the right territory.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Actually of all things, you do not need apothecary skill the most. It is the most learnt crafting skills and you can easily find someone to make the pots for you. If you are in a TW faction, most of the time, there would be a herb bank and the faction would make them for you to use in TW and stuff. Better to spend on blacksmith and tailor if you are aiming for end game since you'll need it to upgrade nirvana tt gear.(You can still ask others to make nirvana lunar gears for you since it doesnt auto bound)

anwynd · July 2010

why cant you just save up coin to buy gold & get the crafting box things in the cash shop tht will max tht manufacturing skill would prob be cheaper in the long run except for apoth all ik is tht is what i did for all my chars but i must say the drop rate needs improve also may i note i didnt feel like reading all the pagesb:laugh

Daggster - Lost City · July 2010

the problem with the herb banks is that they will run out of herbs if the faction doesn't buy them! because people will get lazier and lazier from tw to tw, thinking that the faction will have enough support pots for them, and less people will be farming herbs. Also i hate when i get spammed with can u craft this and that pots for me requests a few hours and mins before tws. That's why i prefer having my own apoth skill lvled and i advice others to lvl it too because they QQ about not getting their stuff crafted in time so they dont have it rdy when they need it. (had that after crafting pots for 2hours lol i didn't sleep because of that ... and tw is @ 5am my time which obviously sucks -.-)

Crafting gears is something different! U won't be crafting gears for hours since most crafted gears are gonna be used for long times ... there will always be someone to craft your gears but not always someone with lvl7-8 apothecary who has the time to craft your pots.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Daggster - Lost City wrote: »

the problem with the herb banks is that they will run out of herbs if the faction doesn't buy them! because people will get lazier and lazier from tw to tw, thinking that the faction will have enough support pots for them, and less people will be farming herbs. Also i hate when i get spammed with can u craft this and that pots for me requests a few hours and mins before tws. That's why i prefer having my own apoth skill lvled and i advice others to lvl it too because they QQ about not getting their stuff crafted in time so they dont have it rdy when they need it. (had that after crafting pots for 2hours lol i didn't sleep because of that ... and tw is @ 5am my time which obviously sucks -.-)

Crafting gears is something different! U won't be crafting gears for hours since most crafted gears are gonna be used for long times ... there will always be someone to craft your gears but not always someone with lvl7-8 apothecary who has the time to craft your pots.

In a more organized faction, there are more than a few people making TW apothecaries. Learn to use the men power better instead of QQ-ing.

Daggster - Lost City · July 2010

i didn't QQ ... ijs that people become more and more lazy and it will get harder and harder to keep up the pot support. and that's a fact!
Specially on a pvp server ... u wont be the only one farming herbs somewhere and if u have a bad day u will meet 20 kos people engaging u while u keep trying to farm some herbs. ofc on a pve server u wont get disturbed while farming cause u simply turn on the protection and the only thing left for them to do against u is trying to reach herbs before u do lol

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Your guild can always make a counter herb farming KOS people. Or farm at another time. And yes, PvE server do get that luxury of farming in peace.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Daggster - Lost City wrote: »

the problem with the herb banks is that they will run out of herbs if the faction doesn't buy them! because people will get lazier and lazier from tw to tw, thinking that the faction will have enough support pots for them, and less people will be farming herbs. Also i hate when i get spammed with can u craft this and that pots for me requests a few hours and mins before tws. That's why i prefer having my own apoth skill lvled and i advice others to lvl it too because they QQ about not getting their stuff crafted in time so they dont have it rdy when they need it. (had that after crafting pots for 2hours lol i didn't sleep because of that ... and tw is @ 5am my time which obviously sucks -.-)

Crafting gears is something different! U won't be crafting gears for hours since most crafted gears are gonna be used for long times ... there will always be someone to craft your gears but not always someone with lvl7-8 apothecary who has the time to craft your pots.

It's a crying shame you have such troubles with apoth. Our faction members farm herbs, sell em to the bank kitty-shop, and make big batches of apoth well before TW. Maybe the problem you're having is with your *faction* not taking TW seriously.

RedMenace

\it's a shame really
\\maybe you can find a group that works together someday

_Elixira_ - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A note:

As people have advised those level 30 mobs will give you more oil. Particularly insect looking things, like centipedes, scorpions, spiders. And for the most part, it is scaled appropriately by level--you shouldn't need to worry about oil right now and focus on the lowest tier mats like grease, cotton thread, etc etc. Level 3+4 require oil.

Also, you said that you got 11 oils and spent over 16k on repairs. According to the cheapest market value [2.5k], your 11 oils are worth 27,500. This seems to be more than you were spending, so overall to you it would still be worthwhile to grind for them rather than buy, unless you'd spend your time grinding doing something differently and feel it was a waste of time.

A solution for you is to find the most profitable mobs, grind for coin, and then buy the mats. Or farm other mats you don't need, such as herbs, and sell those and use the money to buy your mats. Or just grind them out on better mobs when you level up a little more.

Drop rates have always been tough, and that's part of the struggle of crafting. I like it that way, and many older players do as well, because most other aspects of the game have been nerfed and it's highly frustrating to see that. Don't give up though--most of the issue for you right now is needing to reach levels with better drop rates. 2x drops will probably come at some point as well, and help out a lot.

I haven't yet read the entire thread, but I had to quote this post. Rillien pretty much covers my thoughts on this topic.

I don't think there's anything unreasonable with the OP's remarks, honestly. She doesn't appear to be a player who's just trying to make an alt to power-level (I'm not at all knocking that way of doing things). She (I'm assuming you're a *she*.... forgive me if I'm wrong! lol) just seems to want to level at a slower, steadier, pace and enjoy the game along the way, and prepare her char's abilities for when pk picks up the game's pace. Manufacturing skills are, for many players of this type, a part of what makes this game fun. It's just a different play style, and every bit as legit as any other.

Just my $0.25 (taxes and inflation)

_Elixira_ - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But most of these problems come from people refusing to see that x amount of coin is equal to that one mat, as determined by the market.

It may be difficult to solo grind for mats for all 4 crafting skills [I managed to solo grind enough to level up tailoring all the way and Bsmith level 4; that was enough for me and really easy just by grinding for levels back then]. However--the mobs aren't just dropping mats. They are dropping DQs, coins, sometimes armour and weapons. These can be sold to other players or NPCs and then you pay your repairs and take that leftover coin and BUY the crafting mats you want.

This is VERY doable. Even with DQ price reduction. You may need to slow down your leveling a bit but I would assume that someone who wants to explore the crafting aspect of the game isn't too rushed to hyperstone everything so it doesn't seem too much to ask. There are many mobs at low levels known for being especially profitable. Pick those and worry less about the crafting specifically, more about the total amount of coin you're generating and using profit to buy what you want.

^^This.

(Lol, seems I tend to agree with u a lot)

mazinger2010 · July 2010

I've scanned through this thread a couple times. First off let me say I'm very new to the game, my experience may be limited. With that said, I've done quite a bit of research into the game, I've got a level 4X BM who's doing quite well and a level 3X Cleric and this in a couple of weeks. I've not used any hyper stones or such, haven't needed to. With all of that in mind.

How much low level gear are you seriously needing to build here? 11 purified oils is more than enough to level up a crafting skill if you make low level equipment JUST to get it to the next level. More importantly, and maybe I'm not getting it because I'm new, if your just looking to increase your functionality how many spears, staves, swords, hammers do you need? I'm a BM specializing in DOT with the pole tree right now and, while it's rough I admit to craft my own weapons what is the greatest advantage I'd be looking at making my own spear even at twice the level you were at when starting this complaint?

+10 DMG ? +1STR ? +1 VIT? +40DMG? Why not just get a weapons charm at that point by disintegrating some level 1 gear since apparently you're focusing on crafting so much? Heck why not disintegrate any gear your crafting and get that charm. True it's limited but your a Sin, you should be hitting hard and fast either way.

More into the game though, and less about specific player problems, I don't see the problem with the drop rate/level. I'm a level 3 Weapons and level 1 armor (standard armor seems enough for now) if I really want to upgrade anything I'll go get some stones and refine my armor and weapons I'm carrying, or try my luck getting just enough raw materials to make a couple spears within my level range. I just don't see the problem, I'm rarely running into any single monster I can't own on my level, but I'm on a PVE server (RT) and yes I suppose if I was getting gang banged on a PVP server I'd definitly be looking for some advantage but I'd be looking for the advantage of a powerful faction to back me up or some good friends to cover my back as I headed out of town. I'd be asking the friendly level 80+ Barbs to lend me a hand in my defense or find some other high level player with a good attitude to assist me in preventing the hit squad from taking me out.

Maybe I'd even look toward forming my own kinda hit squad and wait till whoever killed me last was alone somewhere we could take them.

I most certainly would not be thinking "One super piece of magic armor will solve this", when your a level 20 going against someone 10 or 20 levels higher than you, you gotta expect them to slam you around like a prize fighter taking on a kindergardener. It's the nature of the fight. The best armor, the best weapons, heck lets say the GMs decided in their wisdom to remove level restrictions, even having the very best items in the game would only put you on par with what... a level 10 levels higher than you ? So what happens when a level 40 slams into you? This isn't just to the original poster this is to all lower levels.

Funny side note, I got challenged by a level 13 to a duel yesterday, didn't even realize the level difference when I hit accept. Took him out in a single hit of my strongest attack, I kinda stood there in shock and awe afterward then I realized that we had a major level difference and apologized to the poor fella who picked the fight. My point is, level means a lot more than shiny new weapons and shiny new armor. Proper distribution of skills into the right areas can mean even more than that. Take a BM who tries to multipath all the weapon skills at once. Talk about a jack of all trades, you'd be fresh meat in 10 levels doing that. Take a barb who dumps all his points into STR, never upping his VIT, you'd be a walking target. Take a mage with no Int, my point is clear by now though. Even a poor skill choice, or several ones, don't nerf a character though. However good skill choices can make a character that much more capable are far more effective than armor. If it means that much in PVE I have to imagine it means even MORE in PVP. Likewise if level difference means that much in PVE I imagine it would be the same in PVP. The best armor you could hope for would give you what... 300HP around level 20 or 30? 400bonus HP ? Not even that I suspect, but even so, what is 400HP to someone who is doing 4k+ damage. It's the difference between them yawning when they kill you and them actually doing it in their sleep most likely, and maybe not even that.

Also remember armor is kinda a funny thing. Mage classes would pick a heavy armor class to attack in hopes of getting around their high phys def. While high damage physical classes would look for someone in robes to go after in hopes of killing them before a heavy attack landed. All games of this nature are a kinda Rock, Paper, Scissors, and that pairing can make as much difference as levels do.

Even the best robe armor is nothing against a strong sword, even the strongest plate armor shatters against a lightning bolt.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · July 2010

You should level up some more, and I'm not saying this in a superiority sense. Drop rate for higher levels is lower AND you need to craft more items to get next level AND some quests that make you craft specifc 2* gear, which is random and you'll need a lot of attempts.

And when you level up more you'll discover other types of equipment, such as TT equip or legendary equipment. Higher level equip needs higher level crafting skills, even if they don't use any mats that drop from normal mobs at all. TT equip for example uses purely TT drops for crafting (inside Twilight Temple, from bosses).

And the "buy mats with coins" does not work when you CAN'T FIND THE MATS. There is simply not enough supply due to the low drop rate and people not bothering to grind them. Especially on mats like glaze where people rarely even quest (unlike azureworm silk).

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

You should level up some more, and I'm not saying this in a superiority sense. Drop rate for higher levels is lower AND you need to craft more items to get next level AND some quests that make you craft specifc 2* gear, which is random and you'll need a lot of attempts.

And when you level up more you'll discover other types of equipment, such as TT equip or legendary equipment. Higher level equip needs higher level crafting skills, even if they don't use any mats that drop from normal mobs at all. TT equip for example uses purely TT drops for crafting (inside Twilight Temple, from bosses).

And the "buy mats with coins" does not work when you CAN'T FIND THE MATS. There is simply not enough supply due to the low drop rate and people not bothering to grind them. Especially on mats like glaze where people rarely even quest (unlike azureworm silk).

Fortunately, you cna buy mats from cashshop or even level your skills up in a second wiht the chests from cash shop. Thats their answer to not enough supply i think. But you **CAN** still buy mats with coins. Coins -> gold -> mats(from cashshop)

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fortunately, you cna buy mats from cashshop or even level your skills up in a second wiht the chests from cash shop. Thats their answer to not enough supply i think. But you **CAN** still buy mats with coins. Coins -> gold -> mats(from cashshop)

Why not just AOE non-stop? b:shutup

SaintDominic - Sanctuary · July 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

This is true. People do act like douchebags in this game.

Having said that though, that's how the game is. The game didn't price purified oils; the players did. Of course prices could plummet and crafting could be easy if they increased the drop rates, but just try to see the bright side in everything. Low drop rates means that getting level 4 of a crafting skill is something special, and you'll be useful to your friends and guild should they need something made. If EVERYONE could easily get level 8 of all four crafting jobs, then you'd end up asking yourself what's the point of having them to begin with.

Last MMO I played, the "rare" weapons were more common than the NPC gear drop-wise. The result was that everyone ran around with top-notch gear, and sometimes I sat and thought about how it might be more interesting if the game actually had items that only a lucky few owned. PWI fulfills that wish.

Take my advice: focus on one crafting skill and give it your all. Once you manage to get it to level four, focus on another. When you get higher, it gets easier to pay the bills for getting the level fours, and level 4 pretty much is the most difficult level to get. There's sort of a surplus of higher level mats, so if you can just get over this hump here then you shouldn't have any more problems.

Finally..this is the comment that I've been waiting for. I feel inspired now that you said thisnb:thanks {Tailor:5..Apoth: 4....the rest are 1}

Impossible to independantly craft

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