PvP this bad?

emmo90
emmo90 Posts: 12 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Archer
I hear everyone complaining about archers in PvP... well I'm lvl 42 right now and I really wanted to play my archer to high lvls to make some PvP...

Now after hearing everyone complaining about how archers suck in PvP, I dont know if it is worth it to go on with my archer :(

Can you tell me your experiences if it is true that we are the weakest class in PvP or not?
Hope for many answers b:laugh
Post edited by emmo90 on
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Comments

  • Channman - Lost City
    Channman - Lost City Posts: 491 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    archers are the best pvp class imo anyway im level 80 and can kill any class pretty easy
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Archers do just fine in PvP against everything except Assassins up until you get into the high 70s and low 80s. Past that, most other classes' defenses and HP scale faster than our attack power does, and thus we start to struggle unless we're well-geared, skilled, and well-prepared.

    I wouldn't say we're the weakest, but we're not that far from it either when you start reaching endgame levels and equipment.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    what? first time i hear such nonesence :> i always heard archers are the best class - we are best in tw thats for sure.. where ppl rush and die, archers shoot and kill.. i can 1 hit wizzies/venos/clerics/physics/sins if they dont use shields.. also can 2-4hit bms and barbs with magic attacks.. ofc depend on ppl gear lvl shields and experience, but.. wouldnt change my archer for anything :) good archer with godmode gear and experience can solo 10-20 ppl 1 by 1 easy :> (not 1 of them cos im broke ;/ but ive seen what others can do :P)
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    >_> cheezedude dont count hes half archer half bm....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    what? first time i hear such nonesence :> i always heard archers are the best class - we are best in tw thats for sure.. where ppl rush and die, archers shoot and kill.. i can 1 hit wizzies/venos/clerics/physics/sins if they dont use shields.. also can 2-4hit bms and barbs with magic attacks.. ofc depend on ppl gear lvl shields and experience, but.. wouldnt change my archer for anything :) good archer with godmode gear and experience can solo 10-20 ppl 1 by 1 easy :> (not 1 of them cos im broke ;/ but ive seen what others can do :P)

    You can tell this guy is a complete idoit. End game barbs can have up to and over 30k hp. In order to 4 shot a 30k hp barb he would need to do an average of 7.5k dmg per shot for 4 shots in 10 seconds. Lets just say that the 7.5k is a crit... which means his non-crit would need to be 3.25k. From what i been seeing... barbs can have over 50% mag reduction... which means his pvp normal attack would need to be 7.5k. now with the 1/4 dmg reduction in pvp... his non-pvp damage would need to be 30k. lets just assume hes using jones blessing... which would mean that his non-pvp metal would need to deal 23k dmg. archer's metal is base + 4k damage... so it comes out to that his base dmg would need to have an average of 19k. only chance of ever reaching 19k base would be to have HIGHLY refined rank/nirv. and considering that the idoit isn't even 100 yet... hes just blowing **** out of his ****.
    even for those archers with 19k average damage... assuming a 40% crit rate. there is like a 2.5% chance for him to have 4 consecutive crits.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    also can 2-4hit bms and barbs with magic attacks

    lolwut? Are you fighting uncharmed barbs and BMs or something?
  • INovaI - Archosaur
    INovaI - Archosaur Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Glad im not the only one who thought that sanc archer is a complete idiot.



    Archers are very good in pvp up untill 90. After that you sort of get a bit of a surprise, as EVERY freaking class surpasses you in power. It just takes adjustment really. If you play intelligently you should do fine (Apo, spam dmg reduction skills, kite, etc). Also, always ALWAYS be working on your weapon.
    People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.
  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I never really felt like archers were less powerful than other classes even at 90+. I felt like we were stupid OP at 7x, then at 8x we start losing power and by 90 we are the same as everyone else. This is at least how it has been for me.
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i can 1 shot plenty of BMs with triple spark + extreme poison...

    but barbs.... meh, i don't even like to mess with them. pointless for both unless one has OP gear.
  • Relakss - Harshlands
    Relakss - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »
    i can 1 shot plenty of BMs with triple spark + extreme poison...

    but barbs.... meh, i don't even like to mess with them. pointless for both unless one has OP gear.

    lol i also oneshot a bm with my broadland 9,6 k crit and as for barbs it kinda sucks depending on their gear just kite stun and metal atks
  • Tivas - Archosaur
    Tivas - Archosaur Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    what? first time i hear such nonesence :> i always heard archers are the best class - we are best in tw thats for sure.. where ppl rush and die, archers shoot and kill.. i can 1 hit wizzies/venos/clerics/physics/sins if they dont use shields.. also can 2-4hit bms and barbs with magic attacks.. ofc depend on ppl gear lvl shields and experience, but.. wouldnt change my archer for anything :) good archer with godmode gear and experience can solo 10-20 ppl 1 by 1 easy :> (not 1 of them cos im broke ;/ but ive seen what others can do :P)

    A 10+ lunar bow(lvl100archer) didnt one shoot me yesterday on pk event when it was a critical one..

    We fought 1 vs 1 about 10 times some i loose some i win but wt matters was to kill me she needed 3 shots one to tick charm 2 to kill me...

    Since u are lvl 98 or u must have a 12 plus bow or like everybody said u are an idiotb:bye
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    "...i can 1 hit wizzies/venos/clerics/physics/sins if they dont use shields..."

    Read the whole post not just small sections :)

    I'm pretty sure you had your Stone Barrier on
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    whoever called me idiot - look in the mirror, idiots... i never said anything about barbs, and triple spark + extreme + frenzy + blessing + best arrows + crit + charms - YES I DO 1 SHOT THEM WITH A LVL 90 + 5 DRAGONBOW AND FROST ARMOR !!
    sad sad people..... with my nub gear i have 500 dex. learn to play ur class and thats all you need, if you cant 1 hit a wizzie (wtf is charm here for?) you are a noob and dont know anything about the DD.
    im talking what ive seen in practice, myself killing them, not 'theoretical nub calculations'.. meet me in game nubs, and i will show and make SS for everyone to see.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You can tell this guy is a complete idoit. End game barbs can have up to and over 30k hp. In order to 4 shot a 30k hp barb he would need to do an average of 7.5k dmg per shot for 4 shots in 10 seconds. Lets just say that the 7.5k is a crit... which means his non-crit would need to be 3.25k. From what i been seeing... barbs can have over 50% mag reduction... which means his pvp normal attack would need to be 7.5k. now with the 1/4 dmg reduction in pvp... his non-pvp damage would need to be 30k. lets just assume hes using jones blessing... which would mean that his non-pvp metal would need to deal 23k dmg. archer's metal is base + 4k damage... so it comes out to that his base dmg would need to have an average of 19k. only chance of ever reaching 19k base would be to have HIGHLY refined rank/nirv. and considering that the idoit isn't even 100 yet... hes just blowing **** out of his ****.
    even for those archers with 19k average damage... assuming a 40% crit rate. there is like a 2.5% chance for him to have 4 consecutive crits.

    since you called me and idiot i can say that you are either blind or dont understand english or cant read, or have some sort of brain damage.. READ everything i said and try to UNDERSTAND it..
    >>> i can 1 hit wizzies/venos/clerics/physics/sins if they dont use shields.. also can 2-4hit bms and barbs with magic attacks.. ofc depend on ppl gear lvl shields and experience, but..

    p.s. i hardly ever shoot barbs, but my lvl with Mortal gear i can sometimes 2hit them but usually its 4hits+ and that is using tricks and magic attacks, not triple spark ofc... same for bms. and i know those god-mode barbs cant be 4hitted lol, and i never said that. you assume what you want and seems like you love talking to urself cos you didnt read what ive said at all.. end game barbs are not supposed to be killed by 1 person, they are tanks..
  • Dvalinn - Lost City
    Dvalinn - Lost City Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    "if they don't use shields" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What class goes out of safezone without at least self buffs? Saying you can one-shot unbuffed people is like saying you can 1-shot a 40k HP Barb if they take of their gear.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Dvalinn - Lost City wrote: »
    "if they don't use shields" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What class goes out of safezone without at least self buffs? Saying you can one-shot unbuffed people is like saying you can 1-shot a 40k HP Barb if they take of their gear.

    ye right... newbie, ofc people in tw use their shield 24/7..
    again - where the hell did i say i can 1 shot unbuffed people? i said SHIELDS you know the difference?.. right?.. im talking about buffed ppl that are pking in tw most of their time, not the 8sec apothecary or 20 sec shield or whatever..
  • fulgida
    fulgida Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ye right... newbie, ofc people in tw use their shield 24/7..
    again - where the hell did i say i can 1 shot unbuffed people? i said SHIELDS you know the difference?.. right?.. im talking about buffed ppl that are pking in tw most of their time, not the 8sec apothecary or 20 sec shield or whatever..

    A lot of people in tw will be underleveled and/or undergeared.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    yes, but i took the example remmembering how i 1 shot a Buffed wizzie from 95+ faction not long ago, also did 1 shot veno, other wizzie and some other, i never said i run around 1 shotting everyone i see - that indeed would make me an idiot, i just say that its possible. thats why im saying archers can 1 hit other classes - OFC depending on gear/lvl/experience etc..
    where again i said smth stupid??
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    and once again archers are awesome class, and back to the topic - archers in PVP are NOT bad. just if Some archers (Kyioshi b:bye) cant kill anything doesnt mean that others cant..
    ofc idk about other servers - maybe there Everyone has +12 gear in that case more hp = harder to kill = archer disadvantage..
  • ELQuAdRoo - Harshlands
    ELQuAdRoo - Harshlands Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    whoever called me idiot - look in the mirror, idiots... i never said anything about barbs, and triple spark + extreme + frenzy + blessing + best arrows + crit + charms - YES I DO 1 SHOT THEM WITH A LVL 90 + 5 DRAGONBOW AND FROST ARMOR !!
    sad sad people..... with my nub gear i have 500 dex. learn to play ur class and thats all you need, if you cant 1 hit a wizzie (wtf is charm here for?) you are a noob and dont know anything about the DD.
    im talking what ive seen in practice, myself killing them, not 'theoretical nub calculations'.. meet me in game nubs, and i will show and make SS for everyone to see.


    i loled b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=5760919001&dateline=1282336501[/SIGPIC]
  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    It isn't that hard for Archers to kill people. Just the other day I 4 shot a lvl 100 Barb with all HH99 Gold Gear +5. (one of my hits was a crit for over 5500) Oh yeah, he was also a sage barb in tiger form. We were both uncharmed but not everyone likes to waste charms in world PvP. What's all this nonsense about 30-40K HP Barbs? There aren't many barbs who even break 20K HP. Most barbs stop going pure vit after lvl 80 and end up with 15-20K HP in tiger form by lvl 100 and from what I've seen most barbs don't PvP in tiger form. At least that's how it is on LC server. Just yesterday I 1 shot a lvl 99 BM. I hit him with a crit for over 8600. I was using a +6 Heaven Shatterer (which isn't really that great on this server) and Jones Blessing.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    thats the point.. those noob clerics and wizzies dont even know what they are talking about.. i for example am playing my archer over a year now and have no alts, and got my lvl using 0 oracles and only used hypers since lvl 92. i know what archers can do so i have no more intention talking here with nubs who dont know how a real archer even look like..
    and those oracle - nub archer alts and baba - cash shoppers - they are not Real archers, lol.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Are you sure the BMs getting 1 shot around here didn't marrow the wrong way or wasn't suffering from Heaven's Flame?

    I mean, don't let Jone's Blessing get into your head and think this is actually what archers are capable of otherwise. Some of the top BMs on this server have over 15k hp, 10k+ pdef and mdef fully buffed in marrow mag, that's not easily 1 shotted unless you somehow get away with triple sparking (and didn't get sealed or some ****)
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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    Qui: b:dirty
  • Russiee - Raging Tide
    Russiee - Raging Tide Posts: 848 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Im pro. I 4 shot barbs. Orly? Do they happen to have taken off all their gear, be afk, and be suffering from Heavens Flame, Subsea, Tangling Mire, Amp. Do they also have no buffs and are you using Frenzy, Triple spark, attack charms, highest grade arrows possible? Yes? Oh I thought so.

    Wizards can get 10k+ Pdef with Stone Barrier on. GG trying to do 4 Digit damage on them.
    BM's that know how to play their class and stunlock after WoG runs out? Also GG =)

    -points to Devoted's rant- read that. its the truth.
  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Are you sure the BMs getting 1 shot around here didn't marrow the wrong way or wasn't suffering from Heaven's Flame?

    I mean, don't let Jone's Blessing get into your head and think this is actually what archers are capable of otherwise. Some of the top BMs on this server have over 15k hp, 10k+ pdef and mdef fully buffed in marrow mag, that's not easily 1 shotted unless you somehow get away with triple sparking (and didn't get sealed or some ****)

    I didn't say I could 1 shot all or even most of the BMs on this server. I'm saying I critted for 8600+ on a lvl 99 one. I only did it 1 time. His gear wasn't particularly that great. It was a mix of HH90 and HH99 around +3.
  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Russiee - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Im pro. I 4 shot barbs. Orly? Do they happen to have taken off all their gear, be afk, and be suffering from Heavens Flame, Subsea, Tangling Mire, Amp. Do they also have no buffs and are you using Frenzy, Triple spark, attack charms, highest grade arrows possible? Yes? Oh I thought so.

    Wizards can get 10k+ Pdef with Stone Barrier on. GG trying to do 4 Digit damage on them.
    BM's that know how to play their class and stunlock after WoG runs out? Also GG =)

    -points to Devoted's rant- read that. its the truth.

    Yes. I 4 shot a lvl 100 Barb. Doesn't happen all the time but it did that time. No they were not AFK and I already mentioned that his gear was HH99 +5. There was no Triple Spark, Attack Charms, Frenzy, or Extreme Poison, Tangling Mire or HP CHARMS involved. Highest grade arrows? Yes...why wouldn't I be using them.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Meanpie - Lost City wrote: »
    I didn't say I could 1 shot all or even most of the BMs on this server. I'm saying I critted for 8600+ on a lvl 99 one. I only did it 1 time. His gear wasn't particularly that great. It was a mix of HH90 and HH99 around +3.

    Not going to lie with jones blessing archers might have closed the gap somewhat. Before +30 attack levels killing a barb/bm before they got to you was extremely hard. Now it's a bit easier and the low chance you killed the melee before they reached you is a bit higher. There isn't much room for error though when they get close.

    As for ranged vs ranged it's bittersweet, if you can play with the max range and only commit to your opponent when your stun is off cd you might be able to kill more things.

    My guess is archers benefit the most from jones blessing. A miss is 0 no matter how much attack level they have. shrugs.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Meanpie - Lost City wrote: »
    It isn't that hard for Archers to kill people. Just the other day I 4 shot a lvl 100 Barb with all HH99 Gold Gear +5. (one of my hits was a crit for over 5500) Oh yeah, he was also a sage barb in tiger form. We were both uncharmed but not everyone likes to waste charms in world PvP. What's all this nonsense about 30-40K HP Barbs? There aren't many barbs who even break 20K HP. Most barbs stop going pure vit after lvl 80 and end up with 15-20K HP in tiger form by lvl 100 and from what I've seen most barbs don't PvP in tiger form. At least that's how it is on LC server. Just yesterday I 1 shot a lvl 99 BM. I hit him with a crit for over 8600. I was using a +6 Heaven Shatterer (which isn't really that great on this server) and Jones Blessing.
    Meanpie - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes. I 4 shot a lvl 100 Barb. Doesn't happen all the time but it did that time. No they were not AFK and I already mentioned that his gear was HH99 +5. There was no Triple Spark, Attack Charms, Frenzy, or Extreme Poison, Tangling Mire or HP CHARMS involved. Highest grade arrows? Yes...why wouldn't I be using them.



    Dont get ahead of yourself there. Jones Blessing is far from an actual representation of your abilities.


    Try again without the Jones Blessing (+30% damage) and you'll go back to being woefully inadaquet.




    The reason you're not seeing barbs who break 20K is simply because you're not fightning anyone with decked out gear. Mostly due to the fact that hyper-frosting and oracling dont get you your end-game gear refined + sharded.



    The only other reason you wont see a barb breaking 20K hp is because they've recently restatted to become a claw user. Judging by your response here it is apparently obvious you havent come across one.


    Furthermore I'm lead to believe this "supposidly real" barbarian is highly inexperienced - or really doesn't know what he's doing. In every way he should be able to tank your damage.
  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Dont get ahead of yourself there. Jones Blessing is far from an actual representation of your abilities.

    Try again without the Jones Blessing (+30% damage) and you'll go back to being woefully inadaquet.

    The reason you're not seeing barbs who break 20K is simply because you're not fightning anyone with decked out gear. Mostly due to the fact that hyper-frosting and oracling dont get you your end-game gear refined + sharded.

    The only other reason you wont see a barb breaking 20K hp is because they've recently restatted to become a claw user. Judging by your response here it is apparently obvious you havent come across one.

    Furthermore I'm lead to believe this "supposidly real" barbarian is highly inexperienced - or really doesn't know what he's doing. In every way he should be able to tank your damage.

    So you are agreeing with me that most barbs don't have that 30-40K HP that I said they don't have? I've seen plenty of barbs with over 20K HP but your "average" barb just doesn't have it.
    Also considering most people have enough Jone's blessings to last them a year I wouldn't count on them not being a part of the game anytime soon. Saying that using a Jone's blessing doesn't represent my actual abilities may be true (even though many archers have been using extreme poison and frenzy together since genies came out), but if you are going to say that you might as well say that using genies doesn't represent my actual abilities, or using HP Charms, or apothecary pots.
    I'm sorry you feel like the barbarian I'm referring to is inexperienced. I've known him almost as long as I've been playing this game which is over a year now. But I guess the "experienced" players are the ones who have been playing since the server started.
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm with Meanpie on this one
    Of course we can't take out a barb with 20k+ HP EASILY but then, they ARE barbs and they ARE tanks.. also, those with 20k+ HP are the super heavy spenders...

    in that case, give us a +12 Nirvana or 8jun bow and then we'll see wassup.

    I've taken out 16k HP BMs with my triple spark as well as 20k HP barbs.
    1.5-2k hits and 3-4k crits at 1.1 attacks per second, trust me, its going to break their charm.
    It's especially easier when my lunar bow procs and then it makes them seem just as squishy as all other classes, but I don't really rely on the proc because chances are theyre going to die anyway if u do catch them with a demon stun and demon spark.

    It seems like you all seem to think that PK is ONLY 1v1...
    It's not. Most PK that goes on is actually in groups so yes, it is possible to catch one of them with your spark and with your stun and watch them get owned before they have time to get to you or even react in some cases.

    How often will this happen? Not VERY many times because of our poor chi gain, but point is that it CAN happen.

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