What define a bad Veno?

tweakz wrote: »

With your rejection from squads, and poor choice of pets, it seems you have an "it's them, not me" mindset. It may be "just fine" in your mind, but not in the rest of ours. In a 95+ squad, I don't like getting stuck with other players using Lv 85 weapons or sub Level 10 skills, and it's the same for a veno w/o a legendary pet that should be no problem at that level to obtain. If you can't afford the proper equips and skills: wth are you doing FF for?

well i agree the bear isnt the best choise in dd it does have more hp than the magmite (id compare to walker if i knew its lvl 90 stats) but sometimes the less defense can be a downside to that. what im trying to say is u dont need a herc to do those instances but u do need to have a good choise of pets for different situations. btw the lvl 95 weapon doesnt cost 200$ like the herc does so its no where in comparison with those weapons. besides if the veno also had a 95 weap also then it would really be over ruling what u are saying...

tweakz wrote: »

There are too many assumptions and stringent demands being used in the game. It bothers me when someone wastes WC's requesting a Barb (which are rare now) when many BMs or Mages could do the job, possibly better. They don't state things like "tank, lurer, DD", etc. Many are under the assumption that all Archers are better DD's than any other class when I've seen many easily lose aggro to me - a veno (and no they're not in that do badder faction). If a veno wants to play as an Axe wielding veno, its fine by me. The problem I see is the people expecting everyone to be cookie cutter copies of each other. It'd be nice seeing the person WC'ing to include things like: LF: Veno that uses Amp, like they do with the Claw BMs lately. b:chuckle

A significant amount of archers lately are running around with Deicides and Gorenox Vanitys so in that case, provided they have some decent -int gear, they are a better DD. Of course, for a good portion of archers who don't, a veno w/attack pet (herc, scorp, etc.) is a better choice, particularly on level 150 bosses. I agree, conditionally.

Cookie cutter copies is a bit of a confusing statement though -- at this point there's at least 4 or 5 very viable builds, one for each armor class, and another two for hybrids. Granted, it's extremely rare to find a veno who doesn't have magic skills, but hell, you don't even need a fricken magic weapon to amp or purge. Can't imagine how in the world a veno expects to be picked for instanced squads later on when they can't do essential veno skills like purge or amp. Good-for-nothing characters like that I'm sure were informed of how useless they were, but I suppose want to prove they can successfully run around and hit 1 mob at a time with an axe while ignoring their entire skill tree. In this case, they are rightfully ostracized because they're useless to a squad. Good luck playing solo.

Since Nirvana squads are the ones lately that are mostly asking for a claw/fist BM, relating to that instance, if those few venos mentioned above were ever invited (assuming first they ever made it to 100 b:shocked), how fast would they be booted if they swung an axe at the bosses and didn't have purge? (on the 2nd boss that buffs himself) And why should that kind of veno be empowered merely because of their individuality surrounding the build? Never once seen a Nirvana squad asking for a veno who can purge since it's a given.

A good veno is:
- Already casting amplify when it is ready to use.
- Purging whenever it sees a buff (enough buffs on the bosses that muff themselves multiple times) on the boss.
- Using the apropriate pet for the situation it is in.
A tanking pet that can hold it's agro (customize it's skills and level them up to lvl 5...)
A supporting pet (yes, a dps pet with pierce, howl, threaten) that can help on bosses when there are more than 1 casters in the squad that DD, howl helps them kill the boss about 18% faster.
etc etc etc
- Keeping ironwood debuff up when the barb does not use his debuff for defence, even when he DOES use it, the good veno should cast an ironwood at the barb's debuff's end.
- Assisting with pet when the tank is too busy in squad wipe situations, and takes 1-2-3 pets with it's (already forseen and summoned for this situation) pet, like a GW (example, lol, it doesn't matter THAT much, as long as it has good to exelent defence stats) with the agro drawing thingie on lvl 5. Think about this:
A situation where some silly person agroed a group of 5 physical mobs, ok, the barb has cought 3, 2 are running to kill the cleric who healed the silly person, but oh no, the cleric is silly too and just stands there w/o using items/skills to survive, what to do? Well the Veno sends a GW that takes the 1st not hitted mob and uses 'roar' on the second mob, then tanks them, silly cleric saved.

and that is what a good veno would normally do, there are other things like casting myriad where possible, despite costing the OMG WTH 800 mp (just use a herb...) or sending sparks to people that need them.

Now, a bad "veno" would:

- Just spam venomous scarab and use pet from time to time.
- Send herc/kowlin in and spam heal it, untill the boss is dead ("-DUDE, NOONE IS HITTING YOUR PET!!!" "-but i don't wanna it 2 die, it so cool")
- Pull a mob surrounded by other mean looking mobs with herc ... that has BRAMBLE ON.
- Noxious gas/parasitic nova for dmg on bosses...not that they do not do quite the dmg but seriously, by the time you cast them you can cast 2 other spells, and in case of parasitic nova you can just double/tripple spark and cast 3 spells that would outdmg parasitic nova (if you are not a sage veno...then 1 spark is kind of... forgiven).
- Never casting amplify because only noobs cast it and do not DD, because they would do "more DD" while casting it. >:D
- Never purging, not even learning the skill because it costs MONEYZ and it is a stOOpid monkey spell. Who cares if boss is buffed?!
- ABSOLUTELY CASTING AMPLIFY (lvl 1, kekeke) over the other veno in the squad's Sage amp...
- Only using kowling because "I can never has problems with it untill now, it's DA BESTS PET IN DA WORLDS, LOOK HOW FAST IT IS AND HOW COOL IT IZ"
- Never using Ironwood Scarab because it uses chi that can be used for parasitic nova...despite being one of the most DD spells of a veno...
- Pulling with a Parasitic Nova to send pet in, because pet's can not be sent in w/o casting a spell! >:D
- When some silly person pulls a group of mobs, just spam venomous on 1 mob and send kowlin to die...while cleric, barb, etc try to stun and hold off the mobs of the cleric. b:laugh
- Never send sparks even when asked to because "it's only a noob spell and noboidy in da gaide said i sould learn it, it not pr0 veno spell"
- Use Feral Concentration on bosses to gather chi.
- Call other venos that do their job "stupid veno" and do another squad wipe.
- Squad wipe more.
- Did I mention squad wipe?
- Squad wipe while pulling with herc/kowlin with reflect buff on.
- Tank with herc w/o buffs.
- Baby oracle itself untill 100 with hyper stone pacifier.

- Squad wipe.

Heavenberry - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now, a bad "veno" would:

- Noxious gas/parasitic nova for dmg on bosses...not that they do not do quite the dmg but seriously, by the time you cast them you can cast 2 other spells, and in case of parasitic nova you can just double/tripple spark and cast 3 spells that would outdmg parasitic nova (if you are not a sage veno...then 1 spark is kind of... forgiven).

This is a bit dependent on your veno's matk and channeling, but the DPS of the level 10 spells (assuming fighting a boss so the DoT portion does full damage) ranks from best to worst:

Frost (1 sparks)
Lucky
Ironwood (0.25 spark)
Blazing
Noxious
Parasitic (2 sparks)
Venomous

None of the sparked spells are "worth it" if you're trying to maximize DPS. You're better off using the chi as an eruption and casting 3-4 spells with augmented damage. You'll get considerably more damage out of the chi that way. Ironwood's pdef debuff makes it worth the chi cost, especially on TT bosses since your pet is doing most of your damage. But if a cleric, barb, or another veno is handling the debuff, you may be better off not using Ironwood and saving the chi for an eruption. It's a very close thing and dependent on which eruption you use, and how many spells you can get off while sparked. So I would just use Ironwood (unless a barb or Sage veno is debuffing) and not worry about the chi cost.

Venomous is the lowest DPS spell by quite some margin, so casting just about anything else in your arsenal (including Noxious) is preferable. Basically, the only reason to ever cast Parasitic is if you're AOEing, and/or you need the chaotic effect. Demon venos may want to use it for the Amp effect (would be nice to get some clarification on whether it stacks with regular Amp, Extreme Poison, and BM Heaven's Flame).

With Sage/Demon versions of the spells the ranking shifts a bit:

Frost (1 sparks)
Ironwood (0.25 spark)
Lucky
Blazing
Noxious and Venomous
Parasitic (2 sparks)

With low channeling (less than ~20% with my matk), Venomous does more DPS than Noxious. With high channeling, Noxious does more DPS than Venomous. Same note about the sparks applies.

If you're AOEing, against 2 mobs Noxious becomes your #1 spell in terms of DPS, beating out even Frost. Against 3+ mobs, you should spam it as much as you can without getting aggro.

Things change with spell levels lower than 10 since the level progression for Venomous is quite rapid. The primary reason it sucks when comparing level 10 spells is that it hits max level at level 45, while the other spells hit level 10 at higher levels. I have an idea for a good way to compare them at any level, but have been way too busy with RL to put it all together.

Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »

well i agree the bear isnt the best choise in dd it does have more hp than the magmite (id compare to walker if i knew its lvl 90 stats) but sometimes the less defense can be a downside to that. what im trying to say is u dont need a herc to do those instances but u do need to have a good choise of pets for different situations. btw the lvl 95 weapon doesnt cost 200$ like the herc does so its no where in comparison with those weapons. besides if the veno also had a 95 weap also then it would really be over ruling what u are saying...

My Lvl 90 weapon cost around the same as my Herc. BMs utilise many different weapons which gets costly considering all the upgrading, refines, and imbues. Archers pay an arm and a leg for ammo. Barbs have huge repair bills. -But carry on with the justifications for being fail.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is a bit dependent on your veno's matk and channeling, but the DPS of the level 10 spells (assuming fighting a boss so the DoT portion does full damage) ranks from best to worst:

Frost (1 sparks)
Lucky
Ironwood (0.25 spark)
Blazing
Noxious
Parasitic (2 sparks)
Venomous

None of the sparked spells are "worth it" if you're trying to maximize DPS. You're better off using the chi as an eruption and casting 3-4 spells with augmented damage. You'll get considerably more damage out of the chi that way. Ironwood's pdef debuff makes it worth the chi cost, especially on TT bosses since your pet is doing most of your damage. But if a cleric, barb, or another veno is handling the debuff, you may be better off not using Ironwood and saving the chi for an eruption. It's a very close thing and dependent on which eruption you use, and how many spells you can get off while sparked. So I would just use Ironwood (unless a barb or Sage veno is debuffing) and not worry about the chi cost.

Venomous is the lowest DPS spell by quite some margin, so casting just about anything else in your arsenal (including Noxious) is preferable. Basically, the only reason to ever cast Parasitic is if you're AOEing, and/or you need the chaotic effect. Demon venos may want to use it for the Amp effect (would be nice to get some clarification on whether it stacks with regular Amp, Extreme Poison, and BM Heaven's Flame).

With Sage/Demon versions of the spells the ranking shifts a bit:

Frost (1 sparks)
Ironwood (0.25 spark)
Lucky
Blazing
Noxious and Venomous
Parasitic (2 sparks)

With low channeling (less than ~20% with my matk), Venomous does more DPS than Noxious. With high channeling, Noxious does more DPS than Venomous. Same note about the sparks applies.

If you're AOEing, against 2 mobs Noxious becomes your #1 spell in terms of DPS, beating out even Frost. Against 3+ mobs, you should spam it as much as you can without getting aggro.

Things change with spell levels lower than 10 since the level progression for Venomous is quite rapid. The primary reason it sucks when comparing level 10 spells is that it hits max level at level 45, while the other spells hit level 10 at higher levels. I have an idea for a good way to compare them at any level, but have been way too busy with RL to put it all together.

Exactly, most of my statements under "bad veno" are ironical, it this case I would happen to depend on DPS, not impact dmg. I also keep Ironwood debuff up all the time, because mine is the Sage version of the skill.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

venomous hits max level just as the spirit crunch is beginning to really dig in for a veno. at 36 i've already got over a page full of skills i can't level up, and i'm prioritizing madly to get things like venomous (that i'm always using) leveled, ahead of getting my first level in things like frost (that would be way too expensive to ever use, until i get my second spark... but i'll need it to unlock higher branches of the skill tree by then, so i'll have to spend the spirit for it anyway... *sigh*).

Spirit is easy to come by at 90+; also most of the peeps won't notice if you mainly use Venomous, just throw in a random lucky/ironwood when they are cooled down.