Faction officer powers

What kind of faction allows such officers?

Anyhow, I'm against this idea simply because I believe in freedome of speech, but also because it wouldn't work and here's why.

Let's say someone ticks off and starts spewing out carbage. An officer reacts and mutes the person.

Now, anyone that starts spewing out carbage to begin with is already in a VERY motional state where they're not exactly holding ANYTHING back. How is such person going to react to being muted? The likely hood is that they'll leave. I know I would, if someone muted me. It's disrespectful and respect is something I keep very close to myself.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What kind of faction allows such officers?

Anyhow, I'm against this idea simply because I believe in freedome of speech, but also because it wouldn't work and here's why.

Let's say someone ticks off and starts spewing out carbage. An officer reacts and mutes the person.

Now, anyone that starts spewing out carbage to begin with is already in a VERY motional state where they're not exactly holding ANYTHING back. How is such person going to react to being muted? The likely hood is that they'll leave. I know I would, if someone muted me. It's disrespectful and respect is something I keep very close to myself.

It's not exactly respectful to go spewing out garbage at the whole faction just because you're upset either. If they are the irrational type of person that will act like that and leave when someone with authority tries to control the situation, you don't want them in your faction anyways so problem solved.

I think 1 hour is too long for a mute period. 3~10 minutes would suffice. Also I don't think executors should get that power.

Executors more or less exist to make it easy for new members to join a faction; in a big faction, chances are, at least one executor will be on at any given point (within a reasonable time window), only Marshal and up are the real "officers".

All that being said, it'd be too easy to have executors abuse their power, since there's quite a few of them.

On the other hand, a faction may only have 4 Marshals, and I think only they should be given the power. Considering that a Leader/Director can boot a person out of the faction, I think mute wouldn't really do anything. If a direct warning from the Leader/Director does not silence someone, banhammer them.

+1 for Anzillu.

Spewing carbage is actually a term that is more like an opinion than anything else. If for example an officer sais something and a commissioner disagrees, what stops the officer from muting the said commissioner? It's a situation where a persons sense of justice and duty are measured and I can see many people doing it wrong here.

This kind of system is bound to bring more needless drama to the game. Something like a notice that a leader / director can look at later would be MUCH more helpful. Of course the notice should be invisible to anyone else.

I don't see anykind of situation where a mute would be more benefitial than a booting and where it wouldn't be just flatout disrespectful.

For example, couple days ago we had 1 guy that felt he was mistreated by a faction officer and made a huge rant about it at our forums. Muting the said member would have been a flatout slap to the face at that point. That's not the way how an officer should handle these situations AT ALL.

I agree with a mute. Sometimes people stupidly take arguments into FC when it is better for them to do it with PMs.

I think muting someone for 10 minutes would be a rather effective tool. It gives them that one more chance to pull themselves together and stop ranting in faction chat, it gives the rest of the faction a little break, and it gives a leader or director a moment to calm down a little rather than just booting someone who has diarrhea of the mouth (er... fingers...).

I think it would be much more respectful to mute a faction member than to boot them or have to go later and tattle to the leader or director about them. Muting is an instant, on-the-spot fix for a bad situation, not a lack of respect. A lack of respect would be to boot the emotional guildie as I had to do once in Imajica - most of you old-school Imajican's probably remember what I'm talking about.

The only course of action currently available to put an end to an ugly situation is to boot the offender from the faction if they are refusing to shut up. Sometimes people just start going nuts for whatever reason, we've all seen it happen. And generally those people are sorry afterwards. But the only way to stop them in that moment is to boot them.

Everyone has bad days and sometimes our tempers get the best of us. I'm a champion for snapping and saying the wrong things sometimes and I always regret it.

I'd much rather have my mommy or daddy send me to my room than kick me out of the house when my emotions get the best of me.

Willow, "respect" is not the same as "face". "Face" is a concept in China / Japan that resembles what we understand by respect, but it's not entirely the same. We actually had 2 professors on an international business / culture lecture (China & Japan actually) talking about "Face". My point to Darkir is that his conception of "respect" is not the only, or absolute one. There are more than 1 concepts describing the same thing, but yet they're different. This is called human culture. Yes, we don't live in an oriental culture, but humans themselves, their emotions and feelings do work the same.
If you prefer a nonwiki article... http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/living/articles/keeping_face_in_china.shtml
Wiki, or not, it is a real concept and albeit similar, it's not exact same as respect, that point remains unaltered.

I am fully aware that my post to Dark was harsh, it was made intentionally that way to provide an example. Dark chose to ignore me like I never said anything. Had I been talking in his faction chat, the chances are that he would have muted me and I would have felt that it would have been DEEPLY disrespectful and unjust towards me leading to me leaving Darks faction. That more than clarified that I do not agree with his principle of leading a faction. Saying that should be more than fair and I see nothing insultive, or provocative about that.

Correct me Mindy, if I'm wrong at any point. I believe that the person in your example joined the faction and was being a good member, never doing anything out of ordinary. Then something happened that made the person mad. People that are mad usually seek to vent out their frustration somehow. In this case they apparently started yelling in faction chat. You tried to calm the person, but they refused to stop. Let's assume that mute feature is enabled.

a) An officer mutes the person. Here we have a person who is pissed off because he feels he's been wronged and then notices that he's been muted. At such emotional state, do you expect them to calm down, or to try doing something else to express their new found frustration for being penalized? I have a strong feeling that that person is going to leave the faction even more pissed off.

b) An officer PM's the person, but is unsuccesful to do anything about it. The person keeps on causing trouble in chat. At this point I actually do honestly believe that a boot is better than a mute. And here is why.

Peoples personality do not change, or at least they change through a VERY long process. Let's take Reico for example. He was a brilliant guy with a brilliant mind and I still think that today. But he was constantly provocking and constantly on offensive. On a long run that does more harm than good and thus I honestly believe that his booting was the right solution. I still personally love him dearly, but my emotions and feelings do not change facts. I believe that what is important is not how often drama, or QQ happens in faction chat. I believe that it's more important HOW those situations are handled. Right now Bushido consists of.... those that have been from the start up. If we get drama, maybe someones feelings get bit hurt, maybe there's a tear... but very rarely does it result in a longwinded public drama show anymore. And if it does, it happens in the forums, which can be regulated way better than faction chat.

In the past couple of days we had a following incident. Member 1 had joined faction not too long time ago, she's bit shy and reserved, so doesn't talk much in chat, but is keen to get into vent. She tried asking about getting into vent when she finally got her head phones. However Member 2 was spamming faction chat because it had been dead for a while and thus Member 1 was left without answer. She tried asking Member 2 to stop, but Member 2 felt that Member 1 was trying to say "You're violating the chat" to which Member 2 reacted. Too bad Member 1 misunderstood the reaction as well and got the impression that "she's not worthy to have a voice in faction chat".

I had to spend hours listening to both of them and trying to make both of them see where they were wrong and where they were right. I knew both of them, but they didn't know each other, so without me pm'ing them, listening and explaining the others point and thoughts, they would have never made real peace because Member 1 had left the faction as a result. She did tell me that leaving did hurt her and that she is concidering coming back, hopefully even more now that they both see each others points and views.

To sum up: Muting a pissed off member will result in that person leaving on their own accord.
Sending a PM and trying to resolve why they're angry has higher potential to make the person calm down. Rationalise.
If despite pm's explanations and warnings the person does not stop. He's more than likely going to cause excess trouble and ought to be booted in my opinion.

I know it is a bit totalitarian and very idealistic, but... Those are my thoughts. However I'm not alone in this matter.

Sun Tzu sais in his book "Art of War".
"If a commander issues an order and the subordinate does not obey, it is fault of the commanders due to his command being unclear, too ambiguous, or contradictory. If the commander clarifies his command and issues it again and the subordinate still doesn't obey, it is the fault of the subordinate."

P.S.
This whole post in principle is a response to Willow and nobody else.

Well, you do have a point Willow, I do agree that that's how it should clrearly be.

But there's a problem. People are mostly mature only on the surface. How many people, let's say.... out of 20 do you think would stay in the "grounded room" until told they can come out, or moved? I don't see that number being too high.... The guy you talked about is a real personality and I'm sure you agree with me when I say that there ain't many people like him around.

I think that leaving because of being muted is a valid reason to leave. This is because officers are only humans and often not trained to be leaders of anykind at any point of their life. Very rarely do they really think about the psychological aspects of their deeds.

If an average person gets muted, the likelyhood is that they'll get even more mad.

Ok, here's an idea that does the same job as a mute, but preserves the "Face" of the mutee. Let's say that a person starts causing trouble. Instead of muting the person, what about "sending him to his own room". Here's what I mean, what about having a separate room that only very select people can hear people talking in and talk into as well as out of it. These people would be the leader, director and marshals.

Any person (Even if they are a marshal, or higher, in which case they cannot send messages out of the room anymore) that gets sent to this room isn't muted per se. They just cannot shout at people publicly. It doesn't have to be a visible room either, it can be more like a status where commossioners and execs cannot hear your messages anymore, as in being muted to those specific groups.

Here are the advantages of this system rather than a full blown mute:
The person cannot cause drama in chat anymore, but can still make his point, tell his view of the story.
This also gives a chance for the officers to see when that person is calm enough again to be allowed in the public again.
If the "room" isn't a physical place that the mutee can see, they may never even know they are there, thus keeping the person more calm about it.