End-game Armor Imbuing

Euphy - Dreamweaver
Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Cleric
I bet I'll get flamed for not searching...
I was wondering what the ideal stones would be for end-game armor (Archangel, Nirvana). Lets pretend they all cost the same while we're at it. On the table are:
Citrine Gems (115 Hp.)
Garnet Gems (125 Def.)
Stones of Savant / Primeval Stone (10 Vit.)

I think clerics get 10 health per vitality and about 3 defense? There's also magic resistance, but I don't think most clerics are concerned with it so much.
I understand that if you refine to +10 you'll probably want to lean towards Garnets. However would vitality stones provide a middle of the road?
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Post edited by Euphy - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I am biased....All Pdef and refine for HP.



    I wish I had enough Gem's to imbue everything with b:sadb:cry
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    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

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  • Lylfo - Dreamweaver
    Lylfo - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    in dreamweaver, 1 vit stone = 2 garnet gems

    it would be better to fully shard garnet gems and use the surplus coins to refine your gear than to spend them all onto vit stones.
    Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I was planning on Garnet Gems (with Immaculate Place Holders) and decent refining. But I noticed that like all assassins, blademasters, and barbarians are buying up Savants for their vitality. I was wondering if this was a smarter plan (Hp-Def-Resist-Regen).
    You get nearly the same health as from a citrine gem... and defense. But I dont' know how much defense a cleric gets from a point in vitality. Hmm... I think I'll save up towards the Garnet Gems... It'll be a bit more affordable too. Thanks you two!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lylfo - Dreamweaver
    Lylfo - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    well they do get 13 hp per vit....you can try to ask your friends on how much def the vit stone gives.

    good luck in making your end game gears.
    Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    good lord maybe you need to do some more research for the basics, and also the sage/demon skills on that other thread. It isnt rocket science to use pwi calc simulator...and at your lvl too.

    Im amazed that VIT10 stone is even in the options...b:surrender its the same as increasing your base VIT stats and sharding nothing. unless that stone has some kind of uber special epic diff. VIT
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Vit Stones are a waste :|
    Garnet or Citrine is up to you, depending on what you think you need.

    /thread
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    9x Demon Cleric
  • Balthier - Dreamweaver
    Balthier - Dreamweaver Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Im gonna have to go ahead and disagree with everyone here it seems.

    Currently I can't access pwcalc.ru/pwi (is it down?), so I cant post a link to my saved end-game comparison builds, but I can give you the general idea.

    We are talking end-game here both gear and refines. If you refine your phy def accesories (Map 4 belt and Cube neck/Lunar neck) to +10 (as you should) and have either Cloudcharger or Wing Trophy cape with +216 x2 phy def, the option between garnets and citrine/vitality becomes pretty easy. The % of reduced phy dmg pr garnet gem becomes too small in comparison to the % HP increase with citrine/vit stones. I'm not talking about a small difference here either, citrine/vit wins by a pretty large margin.

    My math is done with all gear refined to +10, if you refine your armour less, the advantage to citrine/vit stones get higher, if you refine to +12 however I would assume you can start considering Garnets, but I havent done the math on that so don't quote me, as I find getting my gear to +12 sort of unrealistic :P

    Im leaning towards Vit myself, as they add a very good bonus to HP recovery (not too important, but still), and also adds about 1-2% (cant remember) to your phy def, which combined seems to be a bit better than an additional 270 HP (assuming 3 sockets in all pieces), but I suppose its debatable.

    I havent really done any math on the Jade of Steady Defence, as the calc dont show any numbers, and I'm too lazy to set up the math myself yet. I would think that if you have 4 socks in all pieces, the 48% defence lvl will be quite a bit better than the other options (especially combined with def lvl from 2 pieces of nirvana & cube neck). If someone has done any math on those +2 def stones, I'd love to see it :)

    But yeah, between garnet/citrine and vitality, I would go with vit or citrine no questions askedb:victory
  • threepointone
    threepointone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Although I couldn't read your writing due to the terrible font, font size, and colour, I think I know what you're asking.

    P.def all the way, refine for HP.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    pwcalc, as usual
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • TheBishSlap - Lost City
    TheBishSlap - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    refine your orns to +8 get a 96 mold cape and a cv ring and youll have all the pdef you need no reason to shard for pdef beyond that
    after you get to 10k or so fully buffed pdef there is no logical reason to shard for pdef the shards dont add any amount of reduction after that point
    if you want more damage reduction shard for jades of steady defense
    otherwise citrine gems are way better
    oh and vit stones give 100 hp + a multiplier off your base pdef that isnt noticable so its just a waist of money
    im jahailad and i cant change my avatarQQ
  • Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear
    Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    and also adds about 1-2% (cant remember) to your phy def

    Don' t see how vit add to your phys def... maybe those stones have some hidden effects. . .
    And gem are way better than vit stones (115>100)
  • TheBishSlap - Lost City
    TheBishSlap - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    if you put it in a calculator youll see full vit stones vs full citrines is like 1000 less hp for 1% more reduction maybe
    better off putting in a def lvl stone youd get more reduction and more hp for way less money
    im jahailad and i cant change my avatarQQ
  • Balthier - Dreamweaver
    Balthier - Dreamweaver Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    TheBishSlap - Lost City wrote: »
    if you put it in a calculator youll see full vit stones vs full citrines is like 1000 less hp for 1% more reduction maybe
    better off putting in a def lvl stone youd get more reduction and more hp for way less money

    Full citrine vs full VIT assuming all pieces have 4 sockets give you 360 more HP. If you are at that level of gear you will have around 9-11K HP, so yes, it is about 3.5% more HP, vs I think 2% phy def and 12 HP recovery/sec.

    @Kai_Umi: VIT adds to both your physical and magical defence.

    Edit: Oh and yes BishSlap, we are agreed, sharding garnets at end-game is pointless.
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Jade of steady defense gives defense level +2. This is better than +10 vit when hp hits 5k; after 5k, the bonus becomes bigger. Just don't tell anyone b:quiet
  • Balthier - Dreamweaver
    Balthier - Dreamweaver Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Jade of steady defense gives defense level +2. This is better than +10 vit when hp hits 5k; after 5k, the bonus becomes bigger. Just don't tell anyone b:quiet

    *Smacks head on keyboard*

    Why couldn't I just think of that, instead of forming major math ecautions in my head b:surrender

    Thanx :)
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Based on how many people use the +10 vit stones, and how many people use jade of steady defense....I think a massive portion of the players in this game, even the so-called "pros," are just imbeciles. On Dreamweaver, Diamond of Dragon goes for 2-3m; that means a cost of 9-12m per jade (3m to imbueb:shocked). The vit stones are selling for 20m+.

    Now like I said, the bonus you get from jade becomes bigger the higher your hp goes. So how about all those 20k barbs running around with vit stones? Idiots b:bye
  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    DoD for 2-3m?
    O.O
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    9x Demon Cleric
  • TheBishSlap - Lost City
    TheBishSlap - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    ewww 5k hp on an ep even pure int end game is terrible even with garnet shards ijs
    im jahailad and i cant change my avatarQQ
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    TheBishSlap - Lost City wrote: »
    ewww 5k hp on an ep even pure int end game is terrible even with garnet shards ijs

    Either you missed my point, or I just worded it poorly. +2 defense level basically = -2% damage taken. 10 vit = 2% of max hp at 5k hp. Therefore, if your max hp is HIGHER than 5k, you should shard the jade of steady defense.

    I'll explain my barb comment, to make it more clear....Assume barb has 17,000 hp, and one clean socket to go. I believe barbs get 17 hp per point of vit (maybe that's with buffs? idk); so 170 hp from the +10 vit stone = 1% increase to "survivability." Jade of steady defense decreases damage taken by 2%. Which do you think is better?


    Edit: Also, how much do diamonds of dragon go for on heaven's tear? I bought them at that price during the tiger pack sale before this one just past.

    Edit #2: Just noticed that TheBishSlap is literally saying the same thing I am, and sooner. Ugh
  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I see them for at least 5m o.o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    9x Demon Cleric
  • Nexdonum - Lost City
    Nexdonum - Lost City Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I see them for at least 5m o.o

    This.


    Damn, I wish I could find them at 2-3mil. :(
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  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    How much do vit stones go for on your servers? They're in the neighborhood of 20m here. My point is that vit stones are more expensive than +2 def. level ones, for the sole reason that people are stupid. That would be like citrine gems being cheaper than incomparable citrines.
  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    More or less the same on HT.
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    9x Demon Cleric
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    pwcalc, as usual

    ^ This

    /10char
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    medic make us a comparison =O

    *jabs paramedic*
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  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited June 2010
    My point is that vit stones are more expensive than +2 def. level ones, for the sole reason that people are stupid.
    There's more uses to +10 vit stones than just vit. They also either give channeling or crit when socketed to weapons. Just because they are useless to you, doesn't mean they are to other people.

    Btw: 1 Vit =
    Barb: 18 hp
    BM: 15 hp
    Archer/Sin: 13 hp
    Veno: 12 hp
    Others: 10 hp

    And def level isn't all that special. Against (ranged) ofotis on a 90 psy: -11 def level = 1.1k damage max, +36 def level = 800 damage max. It clearly doesnt reduce damage by an exact 36%.
  • Balthier - Dreamweaver
    Balthier - Dreamweaver Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    volst wrote: »
    And def level isn't all that special. Against (ranged) ofotis on a 90 psy: -11 def level = 1.1k damage max, +36 def level = 800 damage max. It clearly doesnt reduce damage by an exact 36%.

    300 damage less from 1.1k dmg = 27% less damage.
    36 - 11 Def lvl = 25 = 25% less dmg.

    Seems to me they work pretty well then?
  • TheBishSlap - Lost City
    TheBishSlap - Lost City Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    barbs get 17 hp from a vit point not counting buffs or tiger form btw
    im jahailad and i cant change my avatarQQ
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    medic make us a comparison =O

    *jabs paramedic*
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    pwcalc, as usual

    b:pleased


    generally, first u build some hp and pdef (where hp is priority imo). Later at some point def gems will have to be taken into consideration, since stacking pdef gives diminishing returns and f.e. u would have to use 2 garnet gems (2 slots) to get just 1-2% pdef more.

    anywyz, i have crappy gear atm and im not planning to change it soon

    making moniez

    so i feel too lazy to make any comparisons :3
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Diancecht - Harshlands
    Diancecht - Harshlands Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I am amazed that more people don't go for Defense Level +2 shards everywhere. I currently have Defense Level +50 from gear (before blessings) and buff to 11.5K HP (nearly all gear is refined to +10). I can tell you that I'm damned hard to kill.

    Prices on Harshlands:
    Diamond of Dragon: 6-7.5M
    Citrine: 14-15M
    Garnet: 15-18M
    Vit+10: 20-23M

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