What define a bad Veno?

Heavenberry - Dreamweaver · June 2010

+1 to the post above.

Aeyris - Sanctuary · June 2010

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

The pet IS the core. Give the veno a better pet and you get a better veno. Give it a standard pet and you get a standard veno.

It also matters how a veno USES the pets they have. I'm not saying that a herc doesn't greatly improve a veno's tanking ability, I'm just saying that they tend to be over-rated at times. It's hard to find a squad anymore for FCC or even TT without people asking if I have a herc. I see how it is IDEAL to have one, but for those that simply cannot afford one, it's a bit unfair.

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Same thing, basically. Having a Herc means that one way or another you have a pile of money at your disposal. So why would a Herc user run around with bad or even average gear? The Herc is just the most obvious aspect to see, but these people pack incredible defense and probably tons of attack power and speed and whatever as well. As far as random parties of strangers go, the idea that someone dealing more damage is the better choice seems rather obvious, as well as the idea that having another tank around isn't such a bad thing at all.

I'm not saying that venos with hercs are bad players, I'm saying that those who automatically assume they're awesome because they have a herc AND don't do their jobs are bad players. I've seen great herc-venos and I've seen crappy ones. I can solo SOME dungeons with my armored bear, but then again, I'm not looking into soloing dungeons; I don't much care for it. Basically I'm saying that good venos realize that they don't NEED a herc in order to be good; it depends on the player.

Aeyris - Sanctuary · June 2010

+2 for Bridigan's post.

Mitties - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Bridigan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's not a great improvement if the Veno is stupid and doesn't understand how aggro works--especially with certain skills like the Herc's damage reflector. Trying to lure with a Herc while he has the damage reflector on will not work--it will cause ALL the mobs to run at you, which can cause a squad wipe. So in this way, a stupid Veno can actually cause more problems with a herc than without one.

And even if they are aware of the properties of damage reflectors, stupid Venos with Hercs can still bite off more than they can chew, especially in the harder dungeons, which can also result in squad wipe.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather squad with a smart Veno who doesn't have a Herc than a stupid Veno who does have one. The Herc Veno may be better at surviving mistakes, but a smart Veno won't be making mistakes in the first place.

Also, if you are soloing a boss, you might not have time to use purge or amp. Agreed on that. But if you are in a squad, and someone else is tanking, purge and amp can do beautiful things for the squad as a whole. As a team player, I wouldn't want to go without those skills.

^This.

Plus, if the squad has a barb who is doing his job right, then a herc is pretty much redundant.

SupaRoyalty - Lost City · June 2010

What define a bad veno? A veno that can't type a topic name with correct english. b:bye

sikozu · June 2010

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

You must have:

- 2 hercules. One main tank. One for emergencies.
- 2 phoenixes. Second in case the first dies in pvp.
- 2 monkeys. For world boss tanking. Both must have rare pet skills
- More than -50% channeling.

Wait what? o.o 1 Her and nix is hard enough to get unless you have $$$ just growing in your backyard. I dont consider that being a "good" veno. I consider that someone who has a lot of time they can waste away playing video games.

Bridigan - Sanctuary · June 2010

sikozu wrote: »

Wait what? o.o 1 Her and nix is hard enough to get unless you have $$$ just growing in your backyard. I dont consider that being a "good" veno. I consider that someone who has a lot of time they can waste away playing video games.

I call that "someone whose rich uncle just died."

sikozu · June 2010

Bridigan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I call that "someone whose rich uncle just died."

That too (even though its sad when a family member dies). Why cant good things happen to me

I wanna be rich too!!! lolz

queenfate · June 2010

Saw something hilarious on WC today in Sanctuary.. I should have screenshotted it" "62 HERC LF Squad"..apparently that herc got tired of it's owner and went solo.

RaininFire - Sanctuary · June 2010

The reason you get no feed back is probably because you are doing nothing wrong, people mainly only like to bring up complaints not praise. Or praise when its a class that they have encountered as being bad for example I have a had a few "nice agro control" comments on my archer because so many blaze in but mostly thanks or praise is saved for the barb or cleric as everyone appreciates those 2 classes getting it right and so many don't.

I would say the single most thing a veno does wrong in a squad (and I say this from the point of view of playing any of the other classes) is she is a very strong solo class and very often will not adapt to playing in a team, so often they have to run of ahead and refuse to hit anything the barb is tanking. Barbs are designed to take damage not deal it so the more "i can manage my own mobs" attitude there is in the squad the longer he gets hit and the higher his repair bill.

amps, purge, sparks and lures is obvious, the other annoying thing I see a lot of veno's do is either my pet isn't needed to tank so keeps it stashed, or just sends pet in and stands there doing nothing.

In herc defence it is the single best pvp pet, we don't spend all that cash for nothing but your not any lesser a veno for not having one, but you will be limited to what you can do than if you don't......quite frankly people that stand at HH shouting 8x herc veno LF BH69 just make me laugh, having a herc in that situation makes no difference at all so why add it. TT or FCC however your herc is what they want you for and all though you can do it without you will have a harder time finding squads to take you

So yes a smart veno with no herc is better than a stupid one without one, but a smart veno with one wins every time. To any veno that says different i just wish i could offer you one for free so i could watch you bite my hand of trying to take it b:chuckle

ryadu · June 2010

I would like to add one thing to this thread,and I think that is the answer that who opened the thread want:

I noticed in your sign that u have writed: "No I dont have an herc,I am the herc".

So,I started to think that maybe the answer u wanted to hear was if a veno without herc can or cant be a good veno.

The answer in my opinion is yes,a veno without herc can be a good veno...but:

1)herc make your life(the life of a good veno that is good without herc) more simple,and I explain u why:

-u can tank(with your pet) bosses that u could not tank before

-u dont need to explain everytime u enter in a party that u are a good veno also without herc(also if It takes u 2 minutes to answer in chat and explain that u are good,2 minutes X every party u will make in your life=a lot of time)

-u will be accepted in everyparty and u dont risk to lose time to be kiked by "noobs" that want only herc veno

-u can solo most part of the game

At the end of the story if u are lvl 60,70,80,90 "maybe" u dont need an herc,but I almost sure that when u will be lvl 100,101 or 102(and at that lvl 80 m are very easy to keep a part) u will surely "need" to buy one for make your in game life "a bit easier".

Vivi - Heavens Tear · June 2010

a good veno: is a veno that works well with other:

i am not the best at amping/purging...

but a good veno knows what skill do and use them when its needed: to save your teammate.

But a good player is the one that can predict and use skill according to that and change if needed.

Bridigan - Sanctuary · June 2010

I think I'll add this: A good Veno will rescue a squadmate who is about to die. If one of the squishy classes, like a wizzy, accidentally pulls aggro, a good Veno will keep an eye out and notice this, and have a pet equipped with Roar that can quickly and easily pull mobs off of another player. Working with a squad is about looking after each other.b:victory

Ezaziel - Raging Tide · June 2010

I was in fb29 a couple of weeks ago and I saw this veno with a herc fighting at that chamber area just outside the place where everyone starts out in inside the secret passage.
I didn't think anything much about it and then I see the veno screaming "RES ME!" She was lying dead just a few meters outside of the doorway. When no one responded to her she started calling us rather vulgar names for ignoring her (well no one around was a cleric) until finally a cleric showed up and resurected her.
Seriously? Dying in a fb29 with a herc out and fighting? And it wasn't like she was attacked by tons of mobs...I saw two of those skeleton things and maybe one of those flame things attacking her. I could have handled that with my magmite. *rolls eyes* If that's not a fail veno then I don't know what is.

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Bridigan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think I'll add this: A good Veno will rescue a squadmate who is about to die. If one of the squishy classes, like a wizzy, accidentally pulls aggro, a good Veno will keep an eye out and notice this, and have a pet equipped with Roar that can quickly and easily pull mobs off of another player. Working with a squad is about looking after each other.b:victory

Exactly what I wanted to say

Also, I'd like to say what's my idea of a bad veno, or any class actually.

Honestly, if you don't have the skills some people do have, like lending hand or amplify, If you don't have a Herc or haven't taught it the skill Bash instead of Pounce, If you prefer that someone in a squad lures with a genie, If you use light armor or heavy armor, It DOESN'T make you a bad veno.

A bad veno is a person who tells everyone what they should do in her opinion and calls them a fail if they won't do it, then completely ignores all her squadmates and does her own thing until someone dies, then she complains in foreign language and finally quits while others are killing a boss. That also applies to any other class.

So if you don't play the game like 98% of the other players, it doesn't make you a fail, as long as you can keep yourself alive, that means you won't die 3 times in a row. For instance, I don't have any foxform skills, as I don't want to waste money on something I'd never use, unless rarely someone in a squad asks for it. But as you can kill all bosses without those skills, I'm not going to learn them just for someone else.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

In regards of my first post where i proudly announced i had no fox-form skills and wasn't planning on using/upgrading them either, i got to thinking. Many veno's do it on bosses, at least that i have seen, and i havent really been using it on bosses so (technically) i had no right to say anything cause i could only speak from what i had seen rather than from my own perspective.

Soo~, i went out and invested in my Amp and Purge skills and went out to do BH's and bosses with a couple of squads, did a few FCC runs. Instead of going about "my own playing style I did as many of these rather usefull posts say:

-- Used amp when ever skill had cooled down on bosses.
-- Gave away my spark like mad when ever i could.
-- Tanked bosses in FCC with herc AND with my Armoured bear.
-- Brambled each and everyone, except cleric and assassin.
-- Lured when ever the situation called for it or when i was "ordered" -.-
-- Went on about killing door guards or any other prequisite mobs in dungeons.
The works.

Now, comparing this to my usual playing style there are a few things i'd like to give to you as my own expierence and opinion.

--Amping and purging
What a load of bullcrap! Seriously!? If you have a good enough of a squad, you have well balanced out DD's a barb that knows what he needs to do to keep aggro and the boss will be dead in a few meaningless minutes!
as if the idea of that comparison (in my opinion making the whole amp thing null and void ) wasn't bad enough, the fact i had to switch between human and fox form takes up SO amazingly much of my MP each and every damn time i switch back to human form, ZOMG. I have never burnt through my MP food this much !
Second to that is for Amp to work i have to get close to the bosses and with some of their aoe's i scared the **** out of the cleric or my hubby (cleric as well ) by suddenly taking a huge blow and my HP dropping to a mere 10 to 20%.
Conclusion? What good is it to use Amp or purge if one of your DD's keeps running out of MP to acuallly attack, or dies because of the damn need to kill things by the speed of light !? I think you can fill that one in for yourself, dont you ?

--Sparking other players.
Specially loved in FCC where after a few polite "Spark pls" it went from worse to even me thinking ~ Uhm.. woof ?~ it even went so bad some went "SPARK!" or even worse "Veno, spark me now!"
A) If i don't got one, get yourself a damn one, use apothecary goods or whack a random "invulnerable" mob till you got one. You cant pluck feathers from a bald chicken !
Veno's are not spark machine's where you throw in a few "pls" and "plox" and we magically shait golden spark eggs.
C) show some respect to the one probable saving your kamikaze **** from sparking and DDing too much and dont order us around like were your flippen lap dog.
D) How are we supposed to use ironwood scarab and decrease a mob/boss's phsycical defence of you consume all of our spirit with those damn spark demands ?
Conclusion ? -nods- got a spark ? keep it. Got 2? see who ever could BENEFIT it and then decide what you wanna do. If someone asks in a normal/polite fashion, give it. use a few noxious gas's when you can and you got a new one.

--Tanking bosses with Herc in comparison to a Armoured bear.
Yes, i have to agree (to some point) a herc does benefit the squad and certainly yourself in FCC, other dungeons or cave's not a problem, other pets do it just as good.
In regards to the armoured bear and tanking bosses i must say it is harder indeed to keep the poor thing alive during it's harsh beating and keeping aggro, even when using Bash or roar. In this case i have to reiterate the set up and attitude of your fellow squad members.
Got a lesser pet tanking a boss you yourself dont want to tank or handle ? Show some sense of intelligence and dont attack full on and be a little more tactfull and strategic in your DDing instead of blaming us for not keeping well enough aggro. If uncertain on a boss, crank it down a little instead of doing the obvious and blame someone else for your own muck up and inconsiderate bashing which usually results in death. ( There's only so much aggro ping pong a cleric can keep up with no matter his/her amazing skills, magic and gear.)
Conclusion ? Even though we are a great hybrid class by default (DD/Pet-Tank) Have a little common sense and keep in mind -some- of us actually know what the hell we do and actually try our best to make YOUR job go smoother, Teamwork people.

-- Luring mobs or bosses.
The little "-.-" face at the beginning when mentioning this is that i notice -some- people forget to use common curtsey in their behaviour. whether that's because they have too much of an ego to fit their character or they see the veno as nothing more than a "thing" to make use of.
"Lure" "Pull" "Veno, send pet" it usually comes in there variants and sometimes i got a nice pls or it just went silent and eventually a wizzy or archer going on a complete suicide mission and pulled with a move or a Genie.
eventually blaming me for not knowing what to do or that questioning whether or not i knew how to pull.
When i usually am the kind of type that like to come to a mutual understanding and ASK which mob, How they want it and what I would think would benefit the situation would be agood idea. But of course, that question and form of teamwork is hardly noticed if it's smothered by all the calls of "Heal!" "Spark!" and "PULL!"
Conclusion ? what's this about a "good Veno" KNOWING how to pull ? i know damn well how to pull, but it's in some cases much more beneficial to shortly and concretely discuss the manner and way of how this is done. so ALL squad members know what's going on and what to expect, instead of pulling on your own accord and your squad members being clueless. ( of course, should it still fail, which occasionally could happen, no matter how "pro" of a veno your are. Take it as a team and dont blame "The Veno" for a fail pull or being fail. Your only as strong as your weakest link. )

--killing doorguards, requisite mobs in dungeons and caves.
Once again, Teamwork and TALK about what you want as a squad. BH79, Some of these doors in there require a certain boss or mob to be killed to go about a shorter way or even getting to the boss at all.
In some squads i found that another veno went ahead and killed it before we even were halfway towards that damn door, in one case where even the veno died while trying, causing the cleric to go on a huff and the veno on a huff cause of the cleric was on a huff.
chain reaction, whole squad was on edge. *rolls eyes*
I eventually went on another run and did the same in wich i got varied responces.
Praise as well as hecklers. Some wanted the Exp (wth?) some wondered why i went so far ahead of the squad and wanted me more as a DD and puller than making things go more smoother.
Conclusion ? again... Teamwork and dependable on the type of squad you are in. Or just go about your own way and tell'm the stuff it if they give you an attitude on what you did or think would suffice the situation, if they stay silent or just plain and simply order your around. A good or bad veno once again, isn't something "single" in your squad !

On a Sidenote and all things said and done ( and after giving previous expierences good thought) ; In my personal opinion that which defines a good veno would be ... well, let me put it this way.
I my view there is NO such thing as a fail or win veno, this also applies to any other race or class. We all play our characters differently and it's all in our own capability to handle the different situations and people you are faced with. Who are we as a cummunity to lable and judge which we have NO control over. if it's not your character you have no right in saying you approve or dissaprove of something when you have to do something TOGETHER to succeed. Just because something is different than the way you would have done it doesn't mean it's wrong or fail.
When it clicks and works, that's good. but that's mainly cause of the amount of effort you yourself as a player put into it and how well you and your fellow players communicate, adapt to situations and handle/face a tough situation.
We all have our preferences of course, and we are all entitled to those, but whether your a LA/HA/Arcane, Herced/nixxed/walker Veno, each and every veno have their advantages and disadvantages.
The points allocation system is to each their own, many people forgot/forget that.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · June 2010

we used to have a job in this game, but since the coming of the fairies, we arent worth much in squads now, unless you have a herc, of course (or an armoured bear, which i saw outlast a herc, beating on rankar, when there was a party wipe. at that, the other veno got POed, and just left, and my bear actually held aggro till the barb and rest of the squad were rezzed/reformed.*cheers for my fat fuzzy Boris*) ^_^

but it makes me feel useless, when barbs fire off sparks in most squads. then, the odd one will ask me to pull, leaving me with a dropped jaw in shock, and scrambling to get the mob he asked for. Venos used to be one of the most fun classes in this game. now, unless you grind 24/7 or have mommy's credit card, hercs are pretty much out of reach, and the players who have them own the squad, leaving everyone else little else but a DD. my son and i used to play together a lot, me doing the pulling, sparking him when necessary...we had fun. now? i shoot chi sparks at the barb, and get told to 'stop bothering him'....

i wonder often why i continue to play...people are so rude, and no matter how polite and helpful i try to be, a snarl of 'bug off'! is what i get most often.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Playing a class, you usually get some feedback from your squads, faction and maybe some random people. People saying, youre a good cleric, keeping us alive. Or, nice job tanking Pole. As Veno, I experience that I get little feedback, unless I do something a squad member dont like. Every person have their own taste, and Im interested to know what you think defines a bad Veno?

Is it the high level veno that never bothered to get a herc? The veno that dont give every spark away so she can use some fancy skills herself(its a long cooldown anyway)? Maybe its the one that didnt do like 80% of every other Veno and went Light armor or Heavy instead?

The feedback I got at first would be comments like "nice pulling", "thanks for spark". At later levels Ive become less use for. Barbs decide to use Zeal instead of Veno pulling, and dont need that many sparks anymore. Now the usual comments is "Get out your herc"(Wich I dont have), "Why are you using Heavy armor?". Both are sometimes followed by, "Fail".

This is one part ranting, and one part: What does Venos think define a good or bad veno? What kind of feedback do you get?

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · June 2010

For instance, I don't have any foxform skills,

<.<
a 86 veno without amp.... is like a 86 bm with no hf to me b:shutup sure you can play but not on the top of my list... b:shutup

queenfate · June 2010

SupaRoyalty - Lost City wrote: »

What define a bad veno? A veno that can't type a topic name with correct english. b:bye

Wow, you have never typoed in your whole life? Also remember not everyone that plays this game has English as a first language. There are people on this other game I play, can barely speak a lick of English but are dang good at their class. So in my opinion you fail at trying to insult and be witty. There is really no need for that, the op was asking a genuine relevant question.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

<.<
a 86 veno without amp.... is like a 86 bm with no hf to me b:shutup sure you can play but not on the top of my list... b:shutup

And why would that be ? ... Pointing a finger without backing it up would be saying you couldn't be in my squad or top if my list cause you didn't have sage or Demon heals/Res =\
and what does Amp benefit YOU as a cleric anyway ? b:bye

tweakz · June 2010

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

And why would that be ? ... Pointing a finger without backing it up would be saying you couldn't be in my squad or top if my list cause you didn't have sage or Demon heals/Res =\
and what does Amp benefit YOU as a cleric anyway ? b:bye

If you don't have and use amp: you make the battle last longer which consumes more resources such as Cleric's MP which makes you a mooch.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

tweakz wrote: »

If you don't have and use amp: you make the battle last longer which consumes more resources such as Cleric's MP which makes you a mooch.

IF you actually took the time to read through half of these posts you would see i have tried and used Amp in a various of ways, situations and even evalutated, in my own personal honest opinion ( without having the need to resort to accusing or calling someone names b:shutup) why Amp is highly overrated in many situations.

Whether or not a battle lasts longer or not is not solemly dependable on a Veno's ability to amp...

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear · June 2010

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

as if the idea of that comparison (in my opinion making the whole amp thing null and void ) wasn't bad enough, the fact i had to switch between human and fox form takes up SO amazingly much of my MP each and every damn time i switch back to human form, ZOMG. I have never burnt through my MP food this much !

...you're a level 8x veno and you have to use MP food?

seriously, what changes past level 3x that burns up mana for you? me, i'm NPCing mana pots whenever i find them because i never need them --- and i don't even have nature's grace yet. where does your mana go that you can't afford the fox form changes?

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...you're a level 8x veno and you have to use MP food?

seriously, what changes past level 3x that burns up mana for you? me, i'm NPCing mana pots whenever i find them because i never need them --- and i don't even have nature's grace yet. where does your mana go that you can't afford the fox form changes?

Changing into Fox form Lv.3
consumes 90 Mana.
And makes your MP Fall by 20%

With My MP point of 7049 that decreases my MP points to 5639.
Then switching back to Human form makes me lose over 1410 MP points alone to simply Switch back and forth.
Add the use cost for Amp to that, that's a 120 Mana for Lv 10 amp
Makes simply switching to Fox form --> using Amp --> switching back to use normal human form attacks again one pretty MP consuming move.
A grand total of 1530 Mana to simply "Help" your squad...

Then, replying once more to tweakz's post, Who's being a mooch when such a "simple" move defines whether or not you are willing to squad a veno with or without amp ?
The veno not willing to dive into extreme MP loss over time due to switching back and forth for the Amp skill, or the squad that wants to save their OWN costs in recources and MP food ?

tweakz · June 2010

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Changing into Fox form Lv.3
consumes 90 Mana.
And makes your MP Fall by 20%

With My MP point of 7049 that decreases my MP points to 5639.
Then switching back to Human form makes me lose over 1410 MP points alone to simply Switch back and forth.
Add the use cost for Amp to that, that's a 120 Mana for Lv 10 amp
Makes simply switching to Fox form --> using Amp --> switching back to use normal human form attacks again one pretty MP consuming move.
A grand total of 1530 Mana to simply "Help" your squad...

Then, replying once more to tweakz's post, Who's being a mooch when such a "simple" move defines whether or not you are willing to squad a veno with or without amp ?
The veno not willing to dive into extreme MP loss over time due to switching back and forth for the Amp skill, or the squad that wants to save their OWN costs in recources and MP food ?

As mentioned above: you appear to have some serious MP management issues. You shouldn't need MP food in a squad without using myriad rainbows. If you're full of MP: use Myriad Rainbow (Human) before transforming and you don't get the Max MP 20% loss. None of this should cost you a thing, but your not doing so costs the cleric. (which makes a mooch)

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

tweakz wrote: »

As mentioned above: you appear to have some serious MP management issues. You shouldn't need MP food in a squad without using myriad rainbows. If you're full of MP: use Myriad Rainbow (Human) before transforming and you don't get the Max MP 20% loss. None of this should cost you a thing, but your not doing so costs the cleric. (which makes a mooch)

Humanform Myriad rainbow is a very expensive 79 skill not many actually have, Apoc pages, medium ink, not to mention the whopping 1 mil in spirit and coins needed to learn one single skill.

I've searched far and wide -what- this skill actually does and it doesn't say -anywhere- that it will decrease an amount of MP loss or anything.

Myriad Rainbow Level 1
Range 25meters
Mana 800 <--- OMG, u kidding me !? X.x
Channel Instant
Cooldown 20 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments

Requisite Cultivation Aware of Vacuity
Launch a shimmering chromatic scarab at an enemy.
Your target has a chance to be affected by various status ailments.
Bleed: 4500 physical damage over time.
Poison: 4500 Wood damage over time.
Armor break: Physical defense reduced by 100%.
Mind break: Magic defense reduced by 100%.
Lasts 9 seconds. <--- wow, 9 whole seconds, that's IF it triggers the ailments. whoopteedoo, so handy with a 20 Second cooldown.

Tip: The number of status ailments caused to targets varies randomly.

Requires 20 Chi <-- Chi ? what's that, arent we giving away all of our chi already with sparks ?

So that would be ANOTHER 800 Mana, spent on HELPING a cleric ? Your dead set on proving me i should build MY char around that of others, arent you ?
Look, all i'm saying is that ( and basically what this entire thread is about ) -what- defines a bad/good veno.
If a good Veno in your opinion lives to make a cleric, barb or any other class more happier and less costly, by a veno herself investing millions in wierd skills that you say do one thing but in practice do not, Should get a herc ( Whopping millions in that ), Give away her sparks, pull/lure cause you cant, Tank bosses where ever you cant, makes me think you want Veno's to be the ultimate char in the game !

Sure, getting skills that help your teammates, there's no problem what so ever in that.
But not all of us have the means, resources and/or time or dont WANT to be spending that much time nor effort in getting these objects, skills or money and just like to play a GAME and occasionally squad up with some people to have fun together.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · June 2010

Hm... next time I'm in an instance just gona sit & meditate, heck why should I waste my ammo (or atleast use the lvl1 fail ones) &/or pay a bunch of $ to upgrade ST, meh squad can just kill it by itself while I take it easy, who cares that I can speed up the process but won't, it's not like I'm there to DD...

Maybe it's just my gameplay, but if I'm there I'd pref to to do my job well <.< even if it means spending more $ on more debuffs or to lvl up skills that are gona be useful to squad to many runs faster. I hate when smb in the party is just um.... sort of there... They sort of kinda atk.... but that's about it... I believe tweakz used a nice word of "mooch" that fits well here. I consider it fail when a certain class can do or help so much more but is limited to only using a few skills.

Hm.. when I used to play my veno don't remember ever potting, unless I was tanking some boss & had to heal nonstop or was taking hits... bu that's dif.

/NiKi - Lost City · June 2010

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Humanform Myriad rainbow is a very expensive 79 skill not many actually have, Apoc pages, medium ink, not to mention the whopping 1 mil in spirit and coins needed to learn one single skill.

I've searched far and wide -what- this skill actually does and it doesn't say -anywhere- that it will decrease an amount of MP loss or anything.

if u actually researched so much,u would know that learning skill doesnt take coins.
besides ink,pages u can farm,u dont need to pay anything else,besides spirit which u should have plenty of just by doing dailies (unless u bump all into making genies).

Venomancer: lvl 79 Spirit: 1.000.000 Coin: 0

Skill Myriad Rainbow

-from ecatomb

out of curiosity,do u purge bosses like cosmoforce or belial,or is that costly to switch to fox form too?
guessing u never pvped,or u wouldnt think its waste of time and mana to switch to fox for purge or amp when opponent have double hp then u and fully buffed.
to comment ur other post how u have to get in range of aoe cuz of amp,theres another reason why venos use fox form,its called extra pdef.even without mp pots or charm,u shouldnt have problems with mp with skills like soul transfusion,natures grace and metabolic boost.
another thing,pretty sure venos get chi easiest from all other classes,just by healing pet which barely cost any mp.

tweakz · June 2010

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Humanform Myriad rainbow is a very expensive 79 skill not many actually have, Apoc pages, medium ink, not to mention the whopping 1 mil in spirit and coins needed to learn one single skill.

It's nothing compared to sage skills like Parasitic Nova, Amplify Damage, Soul Degeneration, Purge, etc.

I've searched far and wide -what- this skill actually does and it doesn't say -anywhere- that it will decrease an amount of MP loss or anything.

Well, first you have to show how Fox Form transforming is going to take 20% of your MP if your MP isn't full.

So that would be ANOTHER 800 Mana, spent on HELPING a cleric ?

Don't know why you're whining about MP when you shouldn't be spending a single coin on it (while clerics do because of people like you).

Your dead set on proving me i should build MY char around that of others, arent you ?

You could just accept that you're a mooch?

Look, all i'm saying is that ( and basically what this entire thread is about ) -what- defines a bad/good veno.
If a good Veno in your opinion lives to make a cleric, barb or any other class more happier and less costly, by a veno herself investing millions in wierd skills that you say do one thing but in practice do not, Should get a herc ( Whopping millions in that ), Give away her sparks, pull/lure cause you cant, Tank bosses where ever you cant, makes me think you want Veno's to be the ultimate char in the game !

If you insist on playing as fail, please stick to soloing so you're not mooching off people who are willing to spend their coin on being useful in squads.

Sure, getting skills that help your teammates, there's no problem what so ever in that.
But not all of us have the means, resources and/or time or dont WANT to be spending that much time nor effort in getting these objects, skills or money and just like to play a GAME and occasionally squad up with some people to have fun together.

Your coin should go up with your xp. If not: you're playing beyond your means and **** everyone you squad with. If you want to race to get as high a level as you can as fast as you can: then bear the burden of your weak but high level character yourself. -please!

There are plenty of moochbag venos that just make it worse for the rest of us.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · June 2010

/NiKi - Lost City wrote: »

if u actually researched so much,u would know that learning skill doesnt take coins.
besides ink,pages u can farm,u dont need to pay anything else,besides spirit which u should have plenty of just by doing dailies (unless u bump all into making genies).

Venomancer: lvl 79 Spirit: 1.000.000 Coin: 0

Skill Myriad Rainbow

-from ecatomb

out of curiosity,do u purge bosses like cosmoforce or belial,or is that costly to switch to fox form too?
guessing u never pvped,or u wouldnt think its waste of time and mana to switch to fox for purge or amp when opponent have double hp then u and fully buffed.
to comment ur other post how u have to get in range of aoe cuz of amp,theres another reason why venos use fox form,its called extra pdef.even without mp pots or charm,u shouldnt have problems with mp with skills like soul transfusion,natures grace and metabolic boost.
another thing,pretty sure venos get chi easiest from all other classes,just by healing pet which barely cost any mp.

O.o uhm, to be honest i never heard of the bosses Cosmoforce nor belial yet. first time i hear of them actually, lol. And no, i hardly pvp unless it's a for-the-heck-of-it duel. not my kinda thing really... to each his own i guess.

Concerning the aoe and P.def , it so happens that the hit i took i was speaking of happened at Pole. Either they suddenly tweaked his stats, it was lucky shot or there's just something faulty about my all TT80 arcane gear... but i doubt an aoe hit of pole should knock my HP from full to a critical state in one hit IN foxform ?

and somehow i feel like saying "make up your bloody mind" Amp is used to speed up the process of killing a boss, but when it comes to gaining chi i should spend time we just gained in killing a boss faster, into spamhealing ( and thus stopping, standing still and healing pet. picking the most worst case scenario now lol ) my pet to gain chi/spark ? X.x seriously... geez louise.

I'm not saying i know it all and that i heckle the amount of effort i should put into lvling my skills, not at all. lvling my skills not only benefits my squad members but myself as well. so that's a win-win, what i am questioning is that over time "they" set a golden guideline for something called a "good Veno".

And Tweakz =\ ... that's just harsh. I dont have to resort to calling someone else a mooch or anything like that. Relax man, ffs. I'm here trying to compare my expierences and what i DO know and use with that of others.
There's no need to be calling me fail when i'm actually trying to get a better understanding together with other people on here.
Like i said, i didn't use amp before, didn't even bother but when i got to this thread got me thinking and tried doing it the way YOU and other people advice. I tried it and gave my expierences from MY own perosnal point of view.but i suppose you havent even bothered to read that... and instead jumped to the cause in calling all veno's fail that dont use Amp. i'm open for any sort of feedback, not people BLAMING me for being a high lvl weakling.
You speak like you know it all but apparently leaving someone in their worth and showing alittle common decentsy isn't something you poses.
Way to go buddy on being an inconsiderate Know-it-all and making me question why i even bother to get a better understanding in my class to indeed BE more of assistance when needed. keep up the good work b:sweat

What define a bad Veno?

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