What bm should i be?

People not like read the long boring sticky's also info is pretty old some things might have changed.

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Okay ill try make simple

There only 2 BMs to choose from

Axe(me)
Fist

This how you choose

Axe if want to deal massive damage and Aoe and also have HF best Debuff EVER every squad wants you have this(go Sage best skills and better tanking)

Fist you hit very fast and in high levels you hit as fast as lightning with -int gear this is a overused and overrated way (Note: ONLY go this path if going Demon otherwise its useless)

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2ndary choosing process

Axe You will need more HP allowing you to Tank most mobs(not mag) and several bosses

Fist need insane amount dex meaning no HP unless shard and refine you will hit a lot but die a lot

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3rd (optional)

Most BMs duel wep class

If Axe main then Pole secondary

If Fist main then sword secondary

Some do Pole or Sword main this not advised

A lot of people do Fist/Axe Advised don't yes access to both skills but will have NO HP due to wep requirement unless again shard and refine a TON

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4th Option

Axe Skill all are good and you will use them ALL

Fist skills 2 useless never get past level 1 other 2 not so good

This means how much coin gonna need for skills

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5th Option (What cultural path)

You can choose a wep class do to this never done before but ehh ya can

Sage=Axe and Pole

Demon=Sword and Fist

(Sage give a lot more def on spark and also hit harder and instant chi and overall has more better skills)

(Demon Hit faster there other skill not sure about also had 4 good skill better then Sage)

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That all i can say i myself and a 85 Axe BM going Sag.

Everyone's playing style different how you play determines what weapon path you go.

Good luck on choosing post what ya choose and if it was at all helpful.

Runemine - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Axe if want to deal massive damage and Aoe and also have HF best Debuff EVER every squad wants you have this(go Sage best skills and better tanking)

Massive damage? Axes have spike damage but in no way deal "massive damage".

Fist you hit very fast and in high levels you hit as fast as lightning with -int gear this is a overused and overrated way (Note: ONLY go this path if going Demon otherwise its useless)

You won't believe how many fisties switched from Demon to Sage because they can now reach 5 aps without Demon Spark.

Axe You will need more HP allowing you to Tank most mobs(not mag) and several bosses

What good is your HP if you can't keep aggro? It usually ends up with either the rest of party gimping their damage so you won't lose aggro, or the Cleric burning up mana on BB because the party refuses to gimp.

Most BMs duel wep class

If Axe main then Pole secondary

If Fist main then sword secondary

Lol? How does sword complement fists?

Sage=Axe and Pole

Demon=Sword and Fist

(Sage give a lot more def on spark and also hit harder and instant chi and overall has more better skills)

(Demon Hit faster there other skill not sure about also had 4 good skill better then Sage)

Really? You claim to be an Axe BM and you want to go Sage because it has "more better skills"? Really?

3 str 2 dex per level as vit as you feel neesecary as long as you can use all weapons at lvl

please dont listen to the axe drone and yulk...well he's the "special" of the bm fourums cant tell if its a troll or actually beleives what it says...either way....scary

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

3 str 2 dex per level as vit as you feel neesecary as long as you can use all weapons at lvl

please dont listen to the axe drone and yulk...well he's the "special" of the bm fourums cant tell if its a troll or actually beleives what it says...either way....scary

^^^^ b:victoryb:laugh^^^^ this.

Most people have stopped replying to Yulk because he is an idiot. I wasn't going to waste the energy, but...

-Sword auto attack when you have fists? wth? Fist have most dps of any weapon and are best used without skills.
-Axe barbs have the most hp but cannot tank because they can't hold aggro. The're very mediocre except excellent aoers.
-3strength 2 dex gives ya all weapons and you'll have enough vitality for almost everything you need.
~Axe have high dmg per hit, slow attack speed, makes them one of the least damage doing weapons.
~Linduras guide is a decent guide for beginners. She was originally an axe bm but rewrote it once people realized fists are awesome and axes aren't that good. Still slightly biased, and very basic.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

^^^^ b:victoryb:laugh^^^^ this.

Most people have stopped replying to Yulk because he is an idiot. I wasn't going to waste the energy, but...

-Sword auto attack when you have fists? wth? Fist have most dps of any weapon and are best used without skills.
-Axe barbs have the most hp but cannot tank because they can't hold aggro. The're very mediocre except excellent aoers.
-3strength 2 dex gives ya all weapons and you'll have enough vitality for almost everything you need.
~Axe have high dmg per hit, slow attack speed, makes them one of the least damage doing weapons.
~Linduras guide is a decent guide for beginners. She was originally an axe bm but rewrote it once people realized fists are awesome and axes aren't that good. Still slightly biased, and very basic.

think she was axe/poleb:surrender

fists build chi faster swords are only higher DPS till you get 2x spark yulk also DQ bracers are cheap for what they do and come at lvl 60

most bm's seem to think like you though so job security for the rest of us

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You done that part already

Explain how "axes have spike damage but do not deal massive damage" made me an "idiot", you idiot.

Gears.

Oh I'm sorry. So what you are saying is that even if you have **** gears, you can tank these bosses if you use axes and have lots and lots of Vit? Is it somehow going to magically let you keep aggro from all the other DD's because you have lots of HP?

Eating your own words? Its rare for BMs below 80 to get -intervals right? Exactly. Single swords have 1.11 aps while fists have 1.43 aps which will attack 32 more attacks in 100 seconds. When it comes from quicker kills, swords beat fists because swords do more physical damage. Again, when it comes to large amounts of time fists hits more, swords takes out quicker battles easier than fists. Thats before intervals. Swords and fists are balanced.

HOW DOES SWORD COMPLEMENT FISTS
HOW DOES SWORD COMPLEMENT FISTS
HOW DOES SWORD COMPLEMENT FISTS

Get the subject through your thick rotten skull and answer the question. We are not talking about if fists and swords are balanced. We are talking about how sword complements fists as secondary weapon choice and warrants switching from fists in mid-battle. In fact if they are BALANCED like you claim, sword does not complement fists because they BOTH SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE. Axes/Fists work well because THEY BOTH BRING SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO THE TABLE. What does a sword bring? A knockback skill, which you surely want to use with fists. A useless chi consuming skill that slow enemy channeling until you actually start attacking so you can get the first hit. A ranged skill with crappy range and slow casting skill which you want to use instead of that crappy skill Drake's Ray. A double spark ulti which cripples damage enemies deal, which is sure to let you dish out more damage with fists. You are right, there are just so many synergy between these weapon paths that it's so enlightening. /sarcasm

Also, fists don't need -interval pre-80 to be effective. I've tanked BH51-59 with 0 -interval equipments, relying solely on constant double spark. Next time you come across a fist BM who offers to tank, use sword and see how easy it is for you to out DPS him.

L2P instead of pulling teeth out of your mouth to buy a huge stack of intervals.

I've been playing BM 55 levels longer than you thus I have more experience PvE wise, AND PvP wise. Your narrow experience based on lowbie "duels" and PvE seems to give you unwarranted confidence.

Fail less please

Stop posting please.

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hate to say it but Ranfa the idiot is right there.



Eh, wow.



Vice versa as well, try tanking with full aggro and low HP + defense, then talk.



Ignorant failure statement there, sword and fists make a nice combo, infact, if you can combine weapons nicely. I have been doing fist/shadowless kick then sword/auto attack. I done some more duels with my duel sword and beat an axe BM with my dual blades mainly auto attacking. I got screen shot to prove that too.



You are completely talking nonsense here "people are going sage because they reach 5 aps already" Now this? Make up your mind troll.


To the OP, I recommend for starters. Use sword or poles. In the beginning, single swords have the best dps in normal attacks. You don't just get intervals like that. Swords for the fastest starting kills, or pole for the good amount of HP. You get a trial poleblade at LVL20.

Try going either
5 STR, 2 DEX, 3 VIT every 2 LVLs till LVL 20
5 STR, 3 DEX, 2 VIT every 2 LVLs till LVL 20
3 STR, 2 DEX every LVL.

You can use multiple weapons too, but its up to you. We cannot decide for you.

You won't get separate weapon skill trees till LVL29. Thats where you should read Lyundara's guide about builds, although she have her biased statements about fists on a BM, just do some research. Have fun with your build.

Thank you for saying that Yulk saves me time from doing it

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*Finds Ranfa and shows what a real Axe Tank BM is*

Fist and sword because if not rich like you sound like ya are and can't get mass -int or before level 89 when get demon spark sword will do more dps

Massive damage i say cause with sage spark and with correct Str you will hit 80k crits at least i know a 75 BM hits 40k crits -_- stop acting like know it all and being very rude

Runemine - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fist and sword because if not rich like you sound like ya are and can't get mass -int or before level 89 when get demon spark sword will do more dps

Yea so why do you need fists? Don't use them if sword works much better for you? What's with this completely pointless mixture of weapon paths that doesn't make any sense? Why is this so hard for you and Yulk to grasp?

Massive damage i say cause with sage spark and with correct Str you will hit 80k crits at least i know a 75 BM hits 40k crits -_- stop acting like know it all and being very rude

That is a spike damage. Massive damage is total amount of damage caused over time.

@Yulk
Read you idiot. Actually no don't even bother. It's clear that you can't and I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to get you to be on the subject. Go away.

i'm gonna punch in some numbers

i'm gonna use a axe and fist build for this (3 str, 2 dex) at level 60

fist with no interval hit at a 1.43
Annihilator of Souls with no equips other than that and lvl 7 fist mastery (max for the level) hit about 1100 on average

axes hit at 0.83
Skeleton Axes hit around 2000 damage with no other equips on average with lvl 7 axe mastery

lets put this over a 5 minute period and see what accumulates for damage, i'll put the equation here

axe: 60 x 5 = 300 seconds, 300 x .8 = 240, 240 x 2000 = 480k damage over 5 minutes

fist: 60 x 5 = 300 seconds, 300 x 1.48 = 444, 444 x 1100 = 488k damage over 5 minutes

now no huge difference eh? but lets put in crit rate, which is base 7% with this build

axe: 240 x .07 = 17, 17 x 4000 (rage damage says its double your average hit) = 68k crit damage

fist: 440 x .07 = 31, 31 x 2200 = 68k crit damage

looking at this, axes and fists will crit the same damage strangely

so on average this shows that fist > axe

loving the arguments keep em coming, im still using my sword fists atm,

@Pyrya

Good math, but there are couple of flaws;

1. You've used legendary fists for the comparison and TT60 for the other paths. Legendary fists are actually 1 rank above TT60 (although they have the same physical attack), however when it comes to raw damage, TT60 wins due to the +56 physical attack bonus.

2. There are too many assumptions for your calculations to be accurate.

So:

Fists
Using TT60 Courageous Fists, 343-379

To calculate raw average, we calculate minimum damage and maximum damage, add them and divide by 2. Also assuming character level is 60 and has no other equipments or imbued any gem.

((343 + 60) + (379 + 60)) /2 = 421

Add the +56 bonus physical attack to that and we get 477 average raw weapon damage.

Now we need to factor in the attack multiple, which according to PWpedia is calculated as follows:

1 + STR/150 + weapon mastery

With the 3/2 build, you would have 182 STR at lvl 60, and lvl 7 weapon mastery (+42% damage).

1 + (182/150) + (42/100) = 2.63

Now for the base damage, we multiply the average damage by the attack multiple:

477*2.63 = 1311.75

So in actuality, fists hit for 1311.75 per hit average, not 1100.

Now we can calculate the real damage over 5min.

444 * 1311.75 = 582417 (582k)

Crits:

31 * (1311.75*2) = 81329 (81k)

Now let's do the same for axes, shall we?
TT60 Skeleton Axes, 399 - 930

Average
((399 + 60) + (930 + 60)) /2 = 724.5
With the physical attack bonus:
724.5 + 56 = 780.5

Same attack multiple as fists.

Base damage
780.5*2.63 = 2052.715

Damage over 5min:
249*2052.715 = 511126 (511k)

Crits:
17 * (2052.715*2) = 69792 (69k)

So now we have:
Fists--582k damage over 5min with crits of 81k
Axes--511k damage over 5min with crits of 69k

Big difference.

Following the same formula,

TT60 Pole--524k damage over 5min with crits of 73k
TT60 Sword--526k damage over 5min with crits of 72k

So no, the damage hierarchy is still

Fists > Sword >= Pole > Axe

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fists
Using TT60 Courageous Fists, 343-379 <--The damage range of the weapon

To calculate raw average, we calculate minimum damage and maximum damage, add them and divide by 2. Also assuming character level is 60 (damage bonus is given for every level of the character) and has no other equipments or imbued any gem (if the character does have other sources of +attack, you would factor them into the addition).

Since calculation of average number is minimum + maximum / 2, we find potential minimum damage and potential maximum damage and substitute them into formula.

((343 + 60) + (379 + 60)) /2 = 421 (This number is the average for a weapon with 343 - 379 damage range on a lvl 60 character)

Add the +56 bonus physical attack (it's a bonus add-on that every TT60 BM weapons have) to that and we get 477 average raw weapon damage.

Now we need to factor in the attack multiple, which according to PWpedia is calculated as follows:

1 (100% weapon damage multiplier) + STR/150 (You get 100% attack bonus for every 150 str) + weapon mastery

With the 3/2 build, you would have 182 STR at lvl 60, and lvl 7 weapon mastery (+42% damage).

1 + (182/150) (Since you have 182 STR, you get the bonus for 150 STR benchmark + 32 STR, which turns out to be about 1.2x attack bonus) + (42/100) (Lvl 7 weapon mastery gives 42% damage bonus, so in order to add it to the multiple we need to turn it into decimal form)= 2.63 (This number is the damage multiplier your character will give to the base weapon damage after all attack bonuses have been factored in)

Now for the base damage, we multiply the average damage by the attack multiple:

477*2.63 = 1311.75 (This is the base damage after your character's attack multiple has been applied to the base weapon damage)

So in actuality, fists hit for 1311.75 per hit average, not 1100.

Now we can calculate the real damage over 5min.

444 (This is your own calculation, fists hit 444 times over 300 seconds)* 1311.75 = 582417 (582k)

Crits:

31 (This is also your calculation, fists will make 31 crits based on 7% crit rate)* (1311.75*2) (crit = double the base damage for classes other than Sins) = 81329 (81k)

Now let's do the same for axes, shall we?
TT60 Skeleton Axes, 399 - 930

Average
((399 + 60) + (930 + 60)) /2 = 724.5
With the physical attack bonus:
724.5 + 56 = 780.5

Same attack multiple as fists.

Base damage
780.5*2.63 = 2052.715

Damage over 5min:
249 (You used 0.8 attack speed to calculate this which turned out to be 240 but it should be 249 based on 0.83 attack speed)*2052.715 = 511126 (511k)

Crits:
17 * (2052.715*2) = 69792 (69k)

So now we have:
Fists--582k damage over 5min with crits of 81k
Axes--511k damage over 5min with crits of 69k

Big difference.

Following the same formula,

TT60 Pole--524k damage over 5min with crits of 73k
TT60 Sword--526k damage over 5min with crits of 72k
(These used the same formula, used same attack multiple, just changed variables to fit each weapon path where necessary).

So no, the damage hierarchy is still

Fists > Sword >= Pole > Axe

I've explained the best I could. It's fine if you'd rather stick to your calculation too. Just throwing it out there.