Can you control aggro?

Feiric - Harshlands
Feiric - Harshlands Posts: 240 Arc User
edited June 2010 in Assassin
First off, I'm still new to the Tideborn classes. They came during my almost year-long break from this game, along with anniversary packs and hypers. So bear with me.

I did an FC with a 90 assassin who kept asking (in a sarcastic way) why she is taking aggro from the barb. She says it's never happened ... and then it keeps happening. I assume that maybe she's putting out too much dps for the barb to handle, and I ask toward the end in exp room if she is controlling her damage. She says, "Assassins don't steal aggro (from barbs), because barbs have 'special skills.'"

So I'd like to verify that assassins can control their damage and aggro risk with you other dudes. Otherwise, I may avoid partying with assassins in the future lol, although I'd like to think she was just a narcissus (everything is everyone else's fault, in this case).

Note on the subject of DDs and aggro: I believe a good DD adapts to the capability of the tank. Having a barb isn't an excuse to go all out, just because there's a barb. This is my mind frame on the whole matter, and if you think I'm wrong, please let me know. Always looking to learn.

This is partly a rant, but also an honest question, so please tell me ... b:bye
Post edited by Feiric - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Dags - Harshlands
    Dags - Harshlands Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    As an assassin yes you have to control your dps, unless a herc is tanking ofc then you can spark more often. If you don't control your dps with a barb tanking you'll easily take aggro and usually end up having constant charm ticks or dying, so truthfully if they wanna go all out and die it's nobody's fault but their own.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    That assassin was just being a moron.

    A good DD can steal aggro. A great DD is easily capable of managing their aggro. As an assassin managing aggro is incredibly easy. Either don't spark, skill spam without chill, or auto-attack with chill. If you feel like you're building aggro too much, force stealth and all the aggro you've built up is instantly gone. The only time aggro should be a real issue is if you either vastly outlevel or vastly outgear the tank... and even then you can do like archers have already been doing and wait a certain period of time before you attack or manually take time during your attacks.
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    A properly statted sin has a higher dps than archers. So yes, you need to know what you'r doing if you want to control your aggro.

    Just saying you can't steal aggro cause a barb has flesh ream is bulcrap, specially now woth jone's blessing (probably the cause for her 'sudden aggro steal')

    But yea, PWI is filled with noobs who do nothing but DD theyr **** off with a low lvl barb as tank, and than look weird when they steal aggro and die.

    Personaly, I haven't done any real high instances with my sin, she's only lvl 56 atm, but I do know a few basics for aggro control for sins:

    The give away, wait before you start (good for all DD's)
    If you feel like it's needed, don't spark. Sins are spark machines, who can be perma 1sparked if they want to, without any interval (or 2 spark probably to, not there yet). This gives massive extra dmg. It's verry tempting to keep sparking, but sparks are a great way to steal aggro, so don't spam them if you don't trust the tank
    Chill of the deep + normal attacks nurfs your dmg massivly. And if you cast it while it's on, you turn it of (like stealth). So if you want to nurf dmg without stopping completly, just cast chill.
    If you DO steal aggro. Steath escape resets your aggro. For the boss it'll be as if you died, so you can start again like you didn't hit the boss at all (if that's at 50% hp, it means you can go all out) Note that stealth escape only resets aggro if you HAVE aggro at that moment. If the tank has the aggro, it won't reset it
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Dags - Harshlands
    Dags - Harshlands Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Stealth does NOT lose aggro on 150 bosses, which is the lvl of FC/HH bosses. Therefore using stealth on a 150/? boss is useless. But yes, if you're too stupid to watch your aggro in the first place you deserve to die lol.
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Dags - Harshlands wrote: »
    Stealth does NOT lose aggro on 150 bosses, which is the lvl of FC/HH bosses. Therefore using stealth on a 150/? boss is useless. But yes, if you're too stupid to watch your aggro in the first place you deserve to die lol.

    Good to know when I go TT b:laugh
    and yea, pritty logical, since a ? boss can still see you with stealth :P
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • Rumble - Harshlands
    Rumble - Harshlands Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Actually stealth "would" cause aggro on a 150 boss. The issue is not that stealth wouldn't drop aggro, it's that the boss level is too high for any sin in the game (given the level cap) to actually successfully stealth against a level 150 boss/mob. But for all intents and purposes you would be correct.

    One item I am unclear on and I have seen debated a bit is when aggro is actually lost. My understanding was that Shadow Escape alone did not reset aggro, but rather you had to 1st pull aggro then shadow for it to reset. As an example if I am DD-ing on Linus and haven't pulled aggro yet and i just Shadow it will not set my aggro back to 0 and start fresh. I can very well continue DD-ing and pick up aggro right away if I was that close. What I do is DD for a while and when I feel I'm getting close I step back and put on deaden nerves as a safety. Then I step back in and DD away, but keep my finger right over the Shadow Escape short key. As soon as I take one hit I Shadow Escape which resets the aggro and jump back in DD-ing till my hearts content.

    Is my understanding of "when" aggro is reset incorrect?
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well, it's the same thing I heared about shadow escape resetting aggro. Haven't been able to really test it myself though
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Yes, you must first have aggro on you for Shadow Escape to erase aggro. It then goes to either the person with the next most aggro or it gets "transferred aggro" which basically is when the Cleric tries to be nice and heal the Assassin, the Assassin goes stealth, then the Assassin's aggro is transferred to the Cleric. So, if the Assassin pulls aggro and it is not a ? boss, don't heal them, it will only get you killed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    "Oh no, I'm taking aggro (check out how high my dps is)"
    "This never happens before (I always take aggro and die)"
    "I just can't help it (my e-peen is HUGE!)"

    Kick and PK.
  • Damiclius - Sanctuary
    Damiclius - Sanctuary Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    "Oh no, I'm taking aggro (check out how high my dps is)"
    "This never happens before (I always take aggro and die)"
    "I just can't help it (my e-peen is HUGE!)"

    Kick and PK.

    Epic win is epic.
  • Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver
    Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Just dont pull aggro unless you can tank. As you get higher in lvl, useing the sin to tank isnt a bad idea. typically it usually between me and the BM for who gets to tank.
  • NightReaper - Lost City
    NightReaper - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    if u r atkn a boss that cant 1hit, 2hits or 3hits u, just spam spark and use shadow scape when/if u get agrob:victory....but, if the boss can 1hit, 2hit or 3hit ub:shocked be carefull and w8 to atk when the boss gets 70% of hpb:laugh
    *stealth*...
    HEY APPLE...
    KNIFE!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    If the barb cannot keep aggro from you...CoD, or remove some gear that gives -int, +dex, or +atk rate. End of discussion.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    "Oh no, I'm taking aggro (check out how high my dps is)"
    "This never happens before (I always take aggro and die)"
    "I just can't help it (my e-peen is HUGE!)"

    Kick and PK.

    I agree with Damiclius, epic win is epic!
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • SilversMoon - Heavens Tear
    SilversMoon - Heavens Tear Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    "I just can't help it (my e-peen is HUGE!)"

    Lol, no one needed to know that.

    On Topic: Sins can verywell control their aggro, essentially spamming skills with CoD on, or spamming sparks is the very contrary and a sin doing either of those is either a noob, or a shmuck expecting the barb to "magically" keep aggro.

    That being said, sins naturally have better dps, than most and higher crtis, so they provide a very powerful DD source, however never mix a sin with a mid grade, or below decent barb.
    Such barbs will miss the skill or ability to keep aggro from sins in normal situations.
    Also keep in mind the Jone's blessing +30 atk lvls, is worlds apart with a sin, and make big difference with already high -int/dps.
    [SIGPIC]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/lord-leo7th/SilversMoonsig.png[/SIGPIC]
  • Feiric - Harshlands
    Feiric - Harshlands Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    "Oh no, I'm taking aggro (check out how high my dps is)"
    "This never happens before (I always take aggro and die)"
    "I just can't help it (my e-peen is HUGE!)"

    Kick and PK.

    Nice translation lol. I've seen that mentality among almost every The sin did go on about how wizards don't have enough dps, as in, "Wizards don't have enough dps." Enough? It may not be as high as a sin, but it's certanly "enough," for most cases.

    Anyways, so I guess I just partied with a bad representative of the assassin class. She said, "We won't be enough to kill this boss," before almost every friggin boss in that stupid FC, because we didn't have "high enough dps." Being able to hold down a boss is more important than how long it takes to kill it, I think. Then she literally freaked out because we missed a few heads, so whatever.

    I guess being high level doesn't make you smart. Alright I gotta stop. Too much rant lol. Arrogance and condescending attitude are stupid skills to invest in when you're higher level.
  • _Leif - Lost City
    _Leif - Lost City Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Dags - Harshlands wrote: »
    As an assassin yes you have to control your dps, unless a herc is tanking ofc then you can spark more often. If you don't control your dps with a barb tanking you'll easily take aggro and usually end up having constant charm ticks or dying, so truthfully if they wanna go all out and die it's nobody's fault but their own.

    I can pull aggro off a herc on [?] bosses fairly easily, even while giving him a 10% headstart.

    For normal bosses, shadow escape whenever you steal aggro is fantastic. I'd also recommend taking off your jones blessing if you have one. For [?] bosses, if you're at the point where you can steal aggro off a herc, wait a good 20% before attacking. Alternatively, don't triple spark (but where's the fun in that? b:surrender)
    Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Just dont pull aggro unless you can tank. As you get higher in lvl, useing the sin to tank isnt a bad idea. typically it usually between me and the BM for who gets to tank.

    This is awesome. With a sin tank you're almost guaranteed that no one will pull aggro after the first triple spark. A surprising number of bosses are sin-tankable in game, including HH

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