Stone Barrier in TW

Posts: 423 Arc User
edited June 2010 in Wizard
I almost always have Stone Barrier on in TW, for obvious reasons. But my question is, when I die, when should I put it back on?

Because I don't think it's worth a chi pot every time I die just to be able to put it on, but without it on my phy defense reduction is pathetic. So, what I've been doing is riding to the fighting until my seal wears off, cast Morning Dew twice, and then putting on Stone Barrier. But that just seems like a waste of time sooo...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-
Previous Enemy Executor
Current SentineI Member
-
"I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh." - DaKillanator - Raging Tide
Post edited by Riverwell - Archosaur on

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Comments

  • Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    If you don't want to get one-shotted every time yes.
  • Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    You can cast Frost blade a couple times then you'll have enough chi for SB.

    And always put it on, always.
    Rank 8 Wizard: 1% farm b:shutup
  • Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I almost always have Stone Barrier on in TW, for obvious reasons. But my question is, when I die, when should I put it back on?

    Because I don't think it's worth a chi pot every time I die just to be able to put it on, but without it on my phy defense reduction is pathetic. So, what I've been doing is riding to the fighting until my seal wears off, cast Morning Dew twice, and then putting on Stone Barrier. But that just seems like a waste of time sooo...

    ok at 79 the 79 skill help cause instant 30sec cooldown 15chi,near it, a could dew and few f.blade and its ok.

    at 89 if u are sage the chi skill or wait till 92 and get the f.blade
  • Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ty for the responses everyone. It's kindof common sense I know but...=/ still felt better to ask.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -
    Previous Enemy Executor
    Current SentineI Member
    -
    "I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh." - DaKillanator - Raging Tide
  • Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    No wonder we rule most of the mapb:thanks
  • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    b:chucklemaster li FTW

    i like watching my guilds demon mages sit at the spawn point spamming morning dew/frostblade while i just master li > barrier and move out.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    If you don't want to get one-shotted every time yes.
    One-shotted?

    Stone Barrier doesn't even double your reduction, doesn't affect buffs (it only doubles your gear pdef), so the reduction you gain is nowhere near twice as much. Even if it did double your reduction (which means more than double your total pdef, buffs included), that would make you a 2-shot.

    Big difference but I think you may be exaggerating, unless the opponent sparked of course. :P
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    One-shotted?

    Stone Barrier doesn't even double your reduction, ...

    I feel that you do not understand the words you are using.

    First if you have 800 pdef and you are fighting a level 100 opponent, demon stone barrier exactly doubles your reduction. Second, "double your reduction" is a meaningless issue -- if you have 60% damage reduction your reduction can not be doubled. If you are immune to all damage you have 100% damage reduction.
  • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    One-shotted?

    Stone Barrier doesn't even double your reduction, doesn't affect buffs (it only doubles your gear pdef), so the reduction you gain is nowhere near twice as much. Even if it did double your reduction (which means more than double your total pdef, buffs included), that would make you a 2-shot.

    Big difference but I think you may be exaggerating, unless the opponent sparked of course. :P

    stone barrier is the difference between me getting hit for 1500 and 500. b:surrender
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Either way, to the OP... yes always put on barrier. It can and will at one time or another mean the difference between dying, or staying alive. Always pvp with earth barrier, period.
    The doctor will see you now.
  • Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    O_o'
    wasting a chi pot just to get barrier up?
    wtf?
    >.<'
    Frostblade, elemental shell, and master li (sage only) be your friend.
    xD
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm a sage wizard with a chi skill on my genie

    in a 3 hour war i use 30 1.5 Spark pots, just to keep myself buffed 24/7

    Feel the vibe i'm giving off? :P
    I'm famous! i'm on ecatomb
  • Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm a sage wizard with a chi skill on my genie

    in a 3 hour war i use 30 1.5 Spark pots, just to keep myself buffed 24/7

    Feel the vibe i'm giving off? :P

    weird i am allways self buffed (exclude mana) without any spark pot. i use spark pot only for 3rd spark+ulti[rarely].

    (oh and no cloud erruption on genie still i do alot ulti in tw)
  • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    fulgida wrote: »
    I feel that you do not understand the words you are using.

    First if you have 800 pdef and you are fighting a level 100 opponent, demon stone barrier exactly doubles your reduction. Second, "double your reduction" is a meaningless issue -- if you have 60% damage reduction your reduction can not be doubled. If you are immune to all damage you have 100% damage reduction.
    I'm afraid you don't understand math.

    Percentages don't get added, they get multiplied.

    50% is 1/2 damage. 75% is twice reduction, not 100%. 75% is 1/4, so you die twice as hard as 50%. Next: 87.5% is double that of 75%. As you can see, every "1% more" becomes more and more significant. 87.5% means 1/8 reduction. 1/16 is next. As you can see, you can never have 100% reduction, which means infinite reduction anyway (how can you double your pdef to reach infinity? makes no sense)

    For some reason testing with elemental shell revealed max is 1/10 damage (90% reduction). Crappy game mechanic, if you ask me.

    Unfortunately, doubling your pdef while you have 50% reduction does not give you 75%, for some reason (in-game formula). Even if it did, Stone Barrier would at best (i.e no other buffs) simply double your survivability against physical attacks.
    stone barrier is the difference between me getting hit for 1500 and 500. b:surrender
    Well, that's triple reduction, which is something Stone Barrier is likely not to do.

    Yes I have omitted Demon Stone Barrier or Sage (150% and 120% respectively), sorry I was talking about lvl10 Stone Barrier. Either way it's not that big of a difference but still a life-saver.
  • Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm afraid you don't understand math.

    Percentages don't get added, they get multiplied.

    50% is 1/2 damage. 75% is twice reduction, not 100%. 75% is 1/4, so you die twice as hard as 50%. Next: 87.5% is double that of 75%. As you can see, every "1% more" becomes more and more significant. 87.5% means 1/8 reduction. 1/16 is next. As you can see, you can never have 100% reduction, which means infinite reduction anyway (how can you double your pdef to reach infinity? makes no sense)

    For some reason testing with elemental shell revealed max is 1/10 damage (90% reduction). Crappy game mechanic, if you ask me.

    Unfortunately, doubling your pdef while you have 50% reduction does not give you 75%, for some reason (in-game formula). Even if it did, Stone Barrier would at best (i.e no other buffs) simply double your survivability against physical attacks.

    Well, that's triple reduction, which is something Stone Barrier is likely not to do.

    Yes I have omitted Demon Stone Barrier or Sage (150% and 120% respectively), sorry I was talking about lvl10 Stone Barrier. Either way it's not that big of a difference but still a life-saver.

    The difference is big enough that you should always have it on in pvp and tw. Not like "oh i don't have chi so I'm not going to bother with it."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Alright, ty everyone, again, for the responses.

    I've has Stone Barrier up in TW and while I pvp because I've noticed my survivability go up when I have it on (duh). What I was doing was cast Morning Dew twice when I respawned so I could get barrier up. I was just saying I felt stupid at the time because everyone was rushing past me and I didn't know for sure whether it was useful of my time or not.

    It is. I got my answer.

    Also I'm not 89 yet --> no chi skill so that isn't really useful to me atm.


    No wonder we rule most of the mapb:thanks

    What is this even supposed to mean?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -
    Previous Enemy Executor
    Current SentineI Member
    -
    "I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh." - DaKillanator - Raging Tide
  • Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I don't bother with it when I'm in a rush sometimes. Just that awesome.
  • Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I heard pyroshell is better because archers use their Blazing Arrow which makes it fire damage.


    Stone Barrier is over-rated.


    It only makes my Pdef when im full buffed go from 500 to 900 and im level 100 with sage stone barrier
  • Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Use Glacial Embrace cause if you aren't full Int (like if you have Vit for HP! or Dex cause...!) then your mana is probably low and you need the MP Recovery!
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm afraid you don't understand math.

    Paranoid, much?
    Percentages don't get added, they get multiplied.

    That depends totally on context.
    50% is 1/2 damage. 75% is twice reduction, not 100%. 75% is 1/4, so you die twice as hard as 50%. Next: 87.5% is double that of 75%. As you can see, every "1% more" becomes more and more significant. 87.5% means 1/8 reduction. 1/16 is next. As you can see, you can never have 100% reduction, which means infinite reduction anyway (how can you double your pdef to reach infinity? makes no sense)

    And, here, we have some problems with english.

    50% damage reduction is indeed half damage and 75% damage reduction is indeed one quarter damage, but 75% damage reduction is not twice the reduction of 50% -- it is a 50% change in reduction. However, we can say that 75% damage reduction is half the damage taken from 50% damage reduction. We could also say that 75% damage reduction gives us twice the effective health or survivability or that 50% damage reduction gives us.

    (And you can sometimes get the effect of 100% damage reduction: You can stay out of range, or in safe zone (for PvP) or you can use tranquilizing orbs (which do not always protect you 100% but sometimes will), or you can kill your opponent, or whatever.)
    For some reason testing with elemental shell revealed max is 1/10 damage (90% reduction). Crappy game mechanic, if you ask me.

    Actually that game mechanic was the same one you were sort of describing above. But until you can use the right words to talk about these issues discussing them is sort of hopeless.
    Unfortunately, doubling your pdef while you have 50% reduction does not give you 75%, for some reason (in-game formula). Even if it did, Stone Barrier would at best (i.e no other buffs) simply double your survivability against physical attacks.

    Argh...

    Ok, yes, you are right that doubling your pdef will not double your surviviability from physical attacks. But there is a very good reason for that. If it did, you would have no survivability when you had zero pdef. If we wanted to work with physical defense numbers where doubling them doubles your survivability, we could pretend that you have an "invisible free bonus pdef" that makes up the difference. But stone barrier would not increase this "invisible free bonus pdef".

    However, also, stone barrier does not double your pdef. Level 10 stone barrier adds 100% of your base pdef but that will never double your pdef because you also have some strength which also adds some amount of your base pdef along with your stone barrier bonus.
    Yes I have omitted Demon Stone Barrier or Sage (150% and 120% respectively), sorry I was talking about lvl10 Stone Barrier. Either way it's not that big of a difference but still a life-saver.

    Finally, you have said something I can agree with! Thank you.
  • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well that was my whole point all along. lvl10 Stone Barrier makes you at best 2-shot if you were 1-shot before, not more than that. (unless you're charmed) In fact, at best (again, that means no str or other buffs), it means it can make you die twice as hard from physical attacks.

    Life saver but not as awesome as making you a 10-shot compared to 1-shot or anything like that, all I'm saying. (ok that's exaggerating but you get the point)
  • Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I heard pyroshell is better because archers use their Blazing Arrow which makes it fire damage.


    Stone Barrier is over-rated.


    It only makes my Pdef when im full buffed go from 500 to 900 and im level 100 with sage stone barrier

    I really hope you're joking...or trolling. My pdef is higher than that unbuffed so...

    Use Glacial Embrace cause if you aren't full Int (like if you have Vit for HP! or Dex cause...!) then your mana is probably low and you need the MP Recovery!

    I've only had mp problems a few times is TW, and an appo pot is enough to counter it...yeah, I'd rather have the added pdef. =/
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -
    Previous Enemy Executor
    Current SentineI Member
    -
    "I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh." - DaKillanator - Raging Tide
  • Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Barrier....never leave the base without it xD
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Does this apply to PvE as well or just PvP???? As my highest char is only 35 I have no idea what to expect from end game stuff and yes wizards are squishy but if done right i shouldnt be taking hits period ( ideally) so end game Water Shield for mana regen or Earth Shield for P Def ( which should be high with Cleric/ BM and Barb skills plus shards, refines etc etc) ??? Sorry for being a noob but I figure we were all there once :) Thanks for any replies.
  • Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    In PVE i always used MP barrier, as you already stated, you shouldn't get hit. You have plenty of control skills to prevent from ever being hit in PVE grinding.

    PvP, you can't knockback your target, and sealing your target only makes them unable to cast, not run away. There goes your control skills down the drain :S. So in PvP you will wear Stone barrier, to make sure thet IF you get hit, i won't be for much. And in PvP you won't be firing off skills every second, so using MP pots isn't a hassle. I rarely get out of MP in PvP/TW. If i die i use an event MP pot and i'm good to go

    Your pdef can't be high enough ( granted after 10K pdef the reduction will get less per point of pdef ) so only cleric/BM buffs will not save you from anything.
    I'm famous! i'm on ecatomb
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ah kk ty much
  • Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    In PVE i always used MP barrier, as you already stated, you shouldn't get hit. You have plenty of control skills to prevent from ever being hit in PVE grinding.

    On a PvP server, I would always use stone barrier unless i was in an instance or safe zone.

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.