Percent speed increase and interval

TwilightSong - Sanctuary
TwilightSong - Sanctuary Posts: 6 Arc User
edited June 2010 in General Discussion
I've been looking at and trying to figure out the rounding of interval increases. From my testing with relentless courage it appears to me that simple rounding to the closest attack speed is not what is occurring. At a 22% speed increase the attack rate goes to 2.22 from 1.67, while if it were rounded it should have gone to a 2.0 attack rate.

I am wondering if anyone know the formula that pwi is using to round. Overall i want to find out the greatest possible speed increase i could achieve using relentless courage, at different starting attack rates.

If anyone has more information on this i would appreciate your comments
Post edited by TwilightSong - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Archer Attack Speed Basics by Elenacostel covers it pretty well.

    To summarize though, all attack speed calculations are done in interval between attacks, rather than attacks per second. +% attack speed buffs are actually -% attack interval buffs. Thus, 22% = -22% interval between attacks, which is actually more like 28% increase in attack rate. Also, it then rounds down to the nearest 0.05 seconds.

    Thus, from your example:
    1.67 attack rate is 0.6 seconds between attacks.
    22% reduction of that results in 0.468 seconds between attacks, which rounds to 0.45 seconds between attacks.
    0.45 seconds between attacks is 2.22 attacks per second.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I was never really able to exactly get the formula just right, for % increases. For the most part, applying it to the attack interval instead of the attack speed seems to bring the closest result, but there are a few examples that are rounded a bit differently that I could never explain.
  • salvati0n
    salvati0n Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    but there are a few examples that are rounded a bit differently that I could never explain.

    Really? O_o Do tell.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=6471541#post6471541 - read the next few pages

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=718442
  • Lylfo - Dreamweaver
    Lylfo - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i bet all you need now is astrelle
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  • Ewen - Harshlands
    Ewen - Harshlands Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    TwilightSong - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I've been looking at and trying to figure out the rounding of interval increases. From my testing with relentless courage it appears to me that simple rounding to the closest attack speed is not what is occurring. At a 22% speed increase the attack rate goes to 2.22 from 1.67, while if it were rounded it should have gone to a 2.0 attack rate.

    I am wondering if anyone know the formula that pwi is using to round. Overall i want to find out the greatest possible speed increase i could achieve using relentless courage, at different starting attack rates.

    If anyone has more information on this i would appreciate your comments

    22% from 2.22 is ~0.49 and 2.22-0.49=1.73, I don't know where the -0.06 comes from, but I know that 22% reduction doesn't reduce the attack rate from 2.22 to 2.0 under any circumstances.
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  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ewen - Harshlands wrote: »
    22% from 2.22 is ~0.49 and 2.22-0.49=1.73, I don't know where the -0.06 comes from, but I know that 22% reduction doesn't reduce the attack rate from 2.22 to 2.0 under any circumstances.
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    1.67 attack rate is 0.6 seconds between attacks.
    22% reduction of that results in 0.468 seconds between attacks, which rounds to 0.45 seconds between attacks.
    0.45 seconds between attacks is 2.22 attacks per second.

    Rounding. Already explained why her numbers work out how they do, instead of how she thinks they should. It's all due to the way the game treats attack speed buffs.
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ewen - Harshlands wrote: »
    22% from 2.22 is ~0.49 and 2.22-0.49=1.73, I don't know where the -0.06 comes from, but I know that 22% reduction doesn't reduce the attack rate from 2.22 to 2.0 under any circumstances.

    You're wrong there. What the OP is saying that 1.22*1.67 rounds to 2.0, not 2.22. However, that's not how attack rate is counted anyway, so that's meaningless.

    Also, mathematically speaking, you're overcomplicating your math. What you're doing looks like this:
    2.22 * 0.22 = 0.49
    2.22 - 0.49 = 1.73

    Whereas you could just simplify that to be this:
    2.22 - (2.22*0.22)
    = 2.22 (1-0.22)
    = 2.22 * 0.78
    = 1.73

    And yes, though you get less lines, you need memory, I don't. Requirement for memory is a complication.

    What happened there was, as was explained, gotten from the way attack speed works. The attack speed boosts are all applied to the attack interval. In this case, it'd go like this:

    1.67 = 1/0.6 -> 0.6 Interval
    0.6 * (1-0.22) -> Interval *(1-speed boost)
    = 0.6 * 0.78
    = 0.468 -> Attack Interval after speed boost
    =~ 0.45 -> Rounded to the nearest 0.05 interval
    1/0.45 = 2.22 -> Attack Rate = 1/Attack Interval
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I was never really able to exactly get the formula just right, for % increases. For the most part, applying it to the attack interval instead of the attack duration seems to bring the closest result, but there are a few examples that are rounded a bit differently that I could never explain.

    It be time to tweak the forumlae?
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  • TwilightSong - Sanctuary
    TwilightSong - Sanctuary Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Thank you all i understand it now and running my numbers with the given formula they match up nicely. I am however sad too see that a genie would have to have 136 strength in order to make attack speed increase from 2.22 to 4.0. I'll take solace that it only requires 92 to go from 2.22 to 3.33.
  • Partypooper - Harshlands
    Partypooper - Harshlands Posts: 329 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Thats a lot of number th_085_.gif
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Partypooper - Harshlands wrote: »
    Thats a lot of number th_085_.gif

    This be nothing.
    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    TwilightSong - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thank you all i understand it now and running my numbers with the given formula they match up nicely. I am however sad too see that a genie would have to have 136 strength in order to make attack speed increase from 2.22 to 4.0. I'll take solace that it only requires 92 to go from 2.22 to 3.33.

    Do note that generally speaking, skills with speed increases don't stack. So if you're planning to use a genie to reach 5 APS on a fist BM or a sin, that won't work.
    Partypooper - Harshlands wrote: »
    Thats a lot of number th_085_.gif

    Um... what?
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    This be nothing.
    b:chuckle

    Just take any university math course and you'll see a lot more of a lot scarier stuff.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.

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