IH stack theory proven (oh gawd, finally)

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woySeSNBL3o&feature=related

Sabatier - Raging Tide · June 2010

i didnt realise it was a contentious issue.. always presumed IH stacked from a single source cleric

when you have multiple clerics (with different level IH) stacking IH if they are exactly in sync.. it would be interesting to know if the higher heal overwrote the lower level heal.. or if they boosted each other..

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

they stack also

not proven, but clers observe it every day if there are 2 eps in squad and one need 'help' with healing from other :P

Sabatier - Raging Tide · June 2010

i have seen cleric A casts and cleric B waits a couple of secs before casting and from that point on they are a few seconds out of sync so the IH level doesnt matter so much as they are not overwriting each other..

yeah what i was getting at

cleric A & B cast IH at exactly the same time.. which heal takes? cos they will both be on same timer..and i havent noticed getting double the heal.. but it is hard to quantify

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

both heal

10chars

Aya__ - Heavens Tear · June 2010

never bothered with being out of sync... when needed just spammed ih and other cleric spammed ih and we both prayed it will be enough b:chuckle
ih stacks with ih from same caster, with ih from other casters and with sor (as proven by Ahira)
stacking ih in my case is battle tested, i never sat down and counted intervals or anything, but i appreciate having numbers to back up what i saw, so good job Paramedic

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear · June 2010

lol, ty para

Inias - Heavens Tear · June 2010

i just wanna say , you proooobably made a small mistake on the calculation part

did u also calculate the clerics magical attack + mag attribute points into the calculation of how much he would heal?

other then that i think it's already been proven at higher lvl's that ironheart definetly stacks

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear · June 2010

IH stack WOW, XD

Thx for your effort, but it s not new, everyone know it
No need to do calculation, get some sin or bm to try to kill you in duel with normal attack and only 1 IH you ll die, try it again with a lot of stacked IH you ll survive.

Realy why always bring your maths everywhere b:worried

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

IH stack WOW, XD

Thx for your effort, but it s not new, everyone know it
No need to do calculation, get some sin or bm to try to kill you in duel with normal attack and only 1 IH you ll die, try it again with a lot of stacked IH you ll survive.

Realy why always bring your maths everywhere b:worried

and people dont get why fishies are number 1 to be blamed/kicked/flamed in any situation b:pleasedb:chuckleb:laugh

when i was level 40-ish, someone told me about how a lower level IH would cancel the effect of a higher level IH and later on, something about how SoR cancels IH.(both of these are obviously untrue now as proven in the forums)

try to appreciate what he is doing here, if he does not verify this and the 10 million other obscure pwi mechanics, how do we know what works?

ps: I would explain "IH stack" by simply saying every cast of IH acts separately regardless of who is casting it and the timing of the cast. So in that sense, a stack of IH is just the casting of IHs back to back.

Shulkie - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would explain "IH stack" by simply saying every cast of IH acts separately regardless of who is casting it and the timing of the cast. So in that sense, a stack of IH is just the casting of IHs back to back.

I think this is what Sabatier was looking for clarity on, nice succinct way of putting it

Maragon - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

IH stack WOW, XD

Thx for your effort, but it s not new, everyone know it
No need to do calculation, get some sin or bm to try to kill you in duel with normal attack and only 1 IH you ll die, try it again with a lot of stacked IH you ll survive.

Realy why always bring your maths everywhere b:worried

judging by the second to last conclusion point i think what he was trying to determine was not that it stacked but that it heals more than IH+WS combo.
(though I coulda told him from having tanked 2-1 with a single clericb:chuckle)
at cosmo cleric does IH-->WS--> repeat and my hp slowly declines. IH-->IH and my HP goes back up.

I use WS when I squishy steals aggro and IH doesnt have the time to catch up. So i have to revert to WS and heal them like a veno on their pet.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · June 2010

God, you had to do all that to discover that IH actually stacks? lmao. b:chuckle

The point is, if you have 2 clerics spamming IH on 1 character each IH will stack (separately as in it will count each of the cleric's IH heal).

However, stacking doesnt mean it will be perma, 1 IH lasts 15 seconds so you have 14 seconds left to keep stacking the player with IH. Then each IH after those 15 seconds will just stop healing but the others will keep healing thats all the "IH stack math" you need to do.

Lets say you cast 1 IH every 2 seconds (counting delay + cast time).

15 seconds / 2 = 7.5

You will be able to stack a maximum of 7 IH on the player (active Iron Hearts) before they start disapearing, after that, you are just covering those cleared timers.

b:bye

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

@Inias

3% of 8 mag attack, so.. meh

@Yamiino

i just wrote same in conclusions genius =/

@all

test took less that writing topic lol and imo it was necessary beacause there was still argues and misleading about overwriting IH by many stacks (f.e. by 5 or insert any number) and -which was more important for me- gave solid base for rest of math.

read whole topic next time, thx

Inias - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Inias

3% of 8 mag attack, so.. meh

still it's something :d b:laugh

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

@Inias

0.24 HP b:chuckle

dont think so tbh. pwi tend to round down numbers often, so prolly 0

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · June 2010

btw Papa Param, find us out the channeling cap if there is, for clerics? =0

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

IH stack WOW, XD

Thx for your effort, but it s not new, everyone know it
No need to do calculation, get some sin or bm to try to kill you in duel with normal attack and only 1 IH you ll die, try it again with a lot of stacked IH you ll survive.

Realy why always bring your maths everywhere b:worried

Because knowing WHY you'd survive is the difference between successful players and idiots that fall for the same tricks over and over and wonder why they die. b:surrender

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

btw Papa Param, find us out the channeling cap if there is, for clerics? =0

I don't think he is rich enough to get enough channeling gears to test it.b:chuckle
That being said, he might be able to find some way to test this. b:surrender
Maybe try to borrow channeling gears for testing purposes?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

btw Papa Param,

oke, that made me feel old, tho it shouldnt b:sad

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

find us out the channeling cap if there is, for clerics? =0

what do you mean by 'channeling cap'? sryz, but my eng skills are even worse than my math

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think he is rich enough to get enough channeling gears to test it.b:chuckle
That being said, he might be able to find some way to test this. b:surrender
Maybe try to borrow channeling gears for testing purposes?

hey, im rich.. ok not enough.. =/

Aya__ - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what do you mean by 'channeling cap'? sryz, but my eng skills are even worse than my math

if you have too much -chan gear on something goes wrong, channels interrupt for no reason, macros break though they really shouldn't as in theory cast and channel times are still ok, and in general there is a point where adding more -chan hurts you instead of helping.
im too poor to test it myself, if i put on all my -chan gear at once im at -15 which works ok, but i heard that trouble starts somewhere over -20
i never heard venos complaining about this, looks like cleric only issue...
b:cry
P.S. dont complain about your english... there are ppl here who i believe are native speakers - and they are so bad i had problems understanding wth they were trying to say b:surrender

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · June 2010

<<

this fish likes the numbers+maths+proofs
nice parab:victory

btw i heard that problems appear after -50chan

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

channeling cap :P

first thing that comes.. if venos dont cry about it then seems that problem concern just HoT spells and may result from some errors when game try to adjust stacks to 1s time frame.

dunno if u noticed that game dont like fractions very much. If u have genie with 2.83 point per 1s recovery it wont recover 2.83 per second but somehting like: 3 per second; 3 per s; 2 per s; 3 per s (...)
Or stacked IH regen always update every second tho it s imposible to stack them so evenly manually - by pressing button. Seems like game adjust casting IH so they can overlap correctly.

Maybe high channel values disturb process? :P

However, there are some gaps in this theory. First, that whole this adjusting may concern just animations (which are 'fake') and whole math is counted 'under' them. Second, I really dont see reason why game engine should/ would want to 'bother' to do that whole adjusting stuff.

BeingHope - Raging Tide · June 2010

Gosh, this is really a unique theory. I always knew that IH did stack but never thought there was math involved in it.

From what I know, only 5 IH can be stacked at a time but you can keep spamming it! Gosh, I don't know. Thats a really interesting way of thinking about it.

Hopefully you can find a few more theories in the future b:victory Got to say, this is the first time I actually saw someone prove about IH lol.

Kudos to that part b:pleased

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · June 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

channeling cap :P

first thing that comes.. if venos dont cry about it then seems that problem concern just HoT spells and may result from some errors when game try to adjust stacks to 1s time frame.

dunno if u noticed that game dont like fractions very much. If u have genie with 2.83 point per 1s recovery it wont recover 2.83 per second but somehting like: 3 per second; 3 per s; 2 per s; 3 per s (...)
Or stacked IH regen always update every second tho it s imposible to stack them so evenly manually - by pressing button. Seems like game adjust casting IH so they can overlap correctly.

Maybe high channel values disturb process? :P

However, there are some gaps in this theory. First, that whole this adjusting may concern just animations (which are 'fake') and whole math is counted 'under' them. Second, I really dont see reason why game engine should/ would want to 'bother' to do that whole adjusting stuff.

he can borrow gear from friends =3

for instance for fist weapons there is a cap of 5.0 -interval
for mages, they can stack 48-50% channeling and cast spells fine as long as their cool down does not interfere. I know more than 50% is possible so thinking, what is the highest channeling that you can get, without 1 skill starting to glitch just by itself? if its all channeling gear then 60%+ is possible. if it goes that far up will it just cast even faster? or is it too high that it will start to glitch just by casting 1 solo spell?

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Essential sutra(wizard's) gives a 90%-ish(100% theoratically) channeling cap. That is a good place to start.

Why did i say 90%? town portal usually takes 10 sec, and with sutra, it takes like 1 sec.
The cap might be 90%. But good luck gettting there to test it.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

there shudnt be channel cap. theoretically, even with 100% channel everything should work fine since cooldown is always longer than cast time

well, getting 110% wont change anything, so we could say that 100 is cap

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Au contraire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQWUtAwt_tU
So, from what I can gather, 100 isn't even a cap.
Btw, I did not just post a link to a video taken from a private server. *awkwardcough*

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

o.o

min cast time for most skills is 1s+

so u shouldnt be able to cast skills more than one per second, but guy is making it more often..

maybe 100%+ channel values let you cast new spell before u finish old one or it speeds up cast time also?..

go figure :P

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · June 2010

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Au contraire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQWUtAwt_tU
So, from what I can gather, 100 isn't even a cap.
Btw, I did not just post a link to a video taken from a private server. *awkwardcough*

LMFAO b:laughb:laughb:laugh holy **** thats awesome lol

Rawing - Sanctuary · June 2010

I guess my personal theory that IH's time of 15 seconds can be extended has been proven wrong b:angry
Just noticed this at venomous ghouls: one DoT hits you, some time later (when DoT is about to end) another one hits you, and both damage and time stack. Would be helpful if IH did that, no?

IH stack theory proven (oh gawd, finally)

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