PWI would make more money if lower prices

bestpaladinintheworld · October 2008

If you lower prices on the stuff people have repeatedly told you is overpriced not only would the community be happier (which is quite pivital when there are lots of companies out there with great free MMORPGs to play and also an ever shifting of players amoung these MMORPGs)

Also you'd have more people buying stuff since it is now cheaper to afford they woudl buy more.

Cat - Heavens Tear · October 2008

This has already been said, and posted at least 50 times. People have even did out the math and posted it as well over and over again. They just dont seem to want to listen.

Kazue - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Question: Would microsoft make more money if they lower the price of windows? If so, why won't they lower the price?

Cat - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question: Would microsoft make more money if they lower the price of windows? If so, why won't they lower the price?

You keep trying to use physical products as examples which you just cant do. First your gas price post and now this. Anything that is physically made in real life has real materials that go into making it. There are REAL costs involved in getting those materials to a plant, then manufactoring that item, then boxing it, shipping it, retailing it, and advertising, and the manpower that goes into each of things. Microsoft has to look at the price it costs them to make each windows unit and then set a reasonable price above that in which they can make a profit.

Here you are talking about something imaginary. Its just pixels/code. Its unlimitless. There are no materials going into making it, no plant where everything is put together, no shipping costs to get it to you. They have an ENDLESS supply. They can charge w/e they want for cash shop items because it costs them nothing to have them. Thats the difference and why we expect and they should lower the prices.

Wave - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Well prices are highbecose they dont have any competition atm in Europe or US or half the world......

When PW II opens in few weeks u will see that prices of zen will go cheaper here just becose they got competition that will sweep good numbers of players form here....basicly they do monopol startegy...no competittion u can set prices sky high and ppl will still buy......

anyway as far i can see for now Gms dont give ******** bout complaints and players sugestions, maked 100 topics like this and yet no straight ansawer bout prices.....says a lot to me.......

gattsuru · October 2008

You realize that there are digital distributions of the Microsoft Operating System, right? When you set up Vista's large business server, you can well only end up with one 'disk' and a hundred licenses. It certainly costs more than one disk and five licenses. If you set up ever set up a Windows Server 2003 or 2008, you have to pay for a CAK per user even though it there's not even a difference in bits on a hard drive platter.

Even when we get to the actual physical disks, and box, like for a Home version of Windows, the average cost of a small run of CDs and cases comes out to less than 10 cents a pop. Shipping CDs and cases through first class mail at least than 10 USD for the continental United States. I'm sure Microsoft has a significant bulk discount on both.

Should Microsoft be selling Windows for the cost of physical components, maybe a couple bucks over that?

Obviously not. Despite the appearances of Microsoft's results, it still employed a boatload of computer programmers for more than half of a decade on Vista alone. They provide another half-decade worth of basic support for their operating systems. They provide online services. The company would go under if they didn't charge significantly more than the physical cost of a disc or even the cost of a disc and developing the software on that disc.

Beyond that point, Microsoft is fully aware that selling an operating system today means that you don't make the sale tomorrow -- things that have limitations on maximum demand (like, say, how mounts, clothing, and nearly all item shop items have) or actively make future demand of similar products less necessary (like XP scrolls or a more secure operating system make selling Silver Charms or virus scanners, respectively, less viable). PWI even has to be careful with prices to keep current players and not drive future ones off.

Bits and bytes are no more immune to the laws of economics than anything else. They've got a slightly deeper supply than most real world things, but they've also got a much thinner number of supplier.

The question is not what size of the demand/cost curve that PWI makes the most money today. It's what is best for the game over the longer term, and that's significantly more complicated.

Kinohki - Lost City · October 2008

gattsuru wrote: »

You realize that there are digital distributions of the Microsoft Operating System, right? When you set up Vista's large business server, you can well only end up with one 'disk' and a hundred licenses. It certainly costs more than one disk and five licenses. If you set up ever set up a Windows Server 2003 or 2008, you have to pay for a CAK per user even though it there's not even a difference in bits on a hard drive platter.

Even when we get to the actual physical disks, and box, like for a Home version of Windows, the average cost of a small run of CDs and cases comes out to less than 10 cents a pop. Shipping CDs and cases through first class mail at least than 10 USD for the continental United States. I'm sure Microsoft has a significant bulk discount on both.

Should Microsoft be selling Windows for the cost of physical components, maybe a couple bucks over that?

Obviously not. Despite the appearances of Microsoft's results, it still employed a boatload of computer programmers for more than half of a decade on Vista alone. They provide another half-decade worth of basic support for their operating systems. They provide online services. The company would go under if they didn't charge significantly more than the physical cost of a disc or even the cost of a disc and developing the software on that disc.

Beyond that point, Microsoft is fully aware that selling an operating system today means that you don't make the sale tomorrow -- things that have limitations on maximum demand (like, say, how mounts, clothing, and nearly all item shop items have) or actively make future demand of similar products less necessary (like XP scrolls or a more secure operating system make selling Silver Charms or virus scanners, respectively, less viable). PWI even has to be careful with prices to keep current players and not drive future ones off.

Bits and bytes are no more immune to the laws of economics than anything else. They've got a slightly deeper supply than most real world things, but they've also got a much thinner number of supplier.

The question is not what size of the demand/cost curve that PWI makes the most money today. It's what is best for the game over the longer term, and that's significantly more complicated.

Note the bolded. Common sense dictates that people are more likely to spend lesser amounts of money over time than large bulk amounts in the same extended time. A person is more apt to spend say 15$ a week more so than 100$. In short term businesses, lower prices are the key.

Look at fast food, people spend 5$ or more a day. McDonalds sells double cheeseburgers for 1$. They make an absolutely insane profit off of them because people buy them in bulk. With the economy in such a shambled state nowadays, people are more hesitant to spend large amounts of money. Simple math shows that it's better to have a steady income than a sporadic unpredictable one. Lower prices do that because people can manage their funds better and are less hesitant to spend if they know they can afford it.

Take the marriage pack for example. 60$. How willing are people to spend 60$ on a thing in game? There aren't many and when you take in account the fact that most MMO'ers are people who are A, minimum wage workers, B students in high school, or C, college students, then that right there is most of your population. Affording 60$ for a title in a game and an experience bonus is insane. 60$ is a lot of gas, food for a week or so. Many other things. It'd be much better to have a steady flow of 5-10$ coming in per week from more people than a large lump sum of 60$ that can't be relied on.

Vaelissa - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You keep trying to use physical products as examples which you just cant do. First your gas price post and now this. Anything that is physically made in real life has real materials that go into making it. There are REAL costs involved in getting those materials to a plant, then manufactoring that item, then boxing it, shipping it, retailing it, and advertising, and the manpower that goes into each of things. Microsoft has to look at the price it costs them to make each windows unit and then set a reasonable price above that in which they can make a profit.

Here you are talking about something imaginary. Its just pixels/code. Its unlimitless. There are no materials going into making it, no plant where everything is put together, no shipping costs to get it to you. They have an ENDLESS supply. They can charge w/e they want for cash shop items because it costs them nothing to have them. Thats the difference and why we expect and they should lower the prices.

That's some pretty flawed logic, what about the education/training required to make a virtual product, the time and talent that goes into it and the money required to pay people to do the work. People won't want to create meshes, sounds, animations and textures for free, nor can they do it without knowledge. There are very real costs that go into all of that. Is all that worth any less than an object you can hold in your hands? Just because something only exists as pixels, is it somehow less valuable? Does it mean the creators shouldn't continue to profit from something that can easily take just as much time to perfect as a "real" item, if not more?

Just think, many of the companies that produce all of those games and pieces of retail software you and I enjoy would not be around today if they did not charge a decent price per product. It is a different industry, you are not paying for the materials of the product, you are paying for the time and effort that went into making the virtual product. The method of virtual distribution for that item, be it cash shop, website or whatever shouldn't be taken into consideration for the cost.

Such things being called "imaginary" is silly, part of my very real income comes from the sale of "pixel items", which I spend a great deal of real time and effort creating. Don't get me wrong, I am all for lower cash shop prices, and while the comparisons between physical and virtual items is flawed, it certainly shouldn't be disregarded completely.

Cat - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Vaelissa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's some pretty flawed logic, what about the education/training required to make a virtual product, the time and talent that goes into it and the money required to pay people to do the work. People won't want to create meshes, sounds, animations and textures for free, nor can they do it without knowledge. There are very real costs that go into all of that. Is all that worth any less than an object you can hold in your hands? Just because something only exists as pixels, is it somehow less valuable? Does it mean the creators shouldn't continue to profit from something that can easily take just as much time to perfect as a "real" item, if not more?

Just think, many of the companies that produce all of those games and pieces of retail software you and I enjoy would not be around today if they did not charge a decent price per product. It is a different industry, you are not paying for the materials of the product, you are paying for the time and effort that went into making the virtual product. The method of virtual distribution for that item, be it cash shop, website or whatever shouldn't be taken into consideration for the cost.

Such things being called "imaginary" is silly, part of my very real income comes from the sale of "pixel items", which I spend a great deal of real time and effort creating. Don't get me wrong, I am all for lower cash shop prices, and while the comparisons between physical and virtual items is flawed, it certainly shouldn't be disregarded completely.

Yes there is still a difference because you only have to make it once. They do not have to remake the code everytime a purchase is made from the cash shop. As with a real item that item has to be made EACH time, the materials, shipping etc all has to be used EACH time. Yes there is an initial base cost to wrote a code after that it there is no more loss. And in this case they didnt even have to write the code. Go visit the screenshots section and you can see where they got the code directly from PW MY. They may had to have pay royalty fees to use it, but there is no where near the price and cost included as their are with real items. It IS imagninary, IT IS PIXELS, and there IS an ENDLESS amount of it. You simple cant compare to a real world item when talking about what price it should be.

Vaelissa - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes there is still a difference because you only have to make it once. They do not have to remake the code everytime a purchase is made from the cash shop. As with a real item that item has to be made EACH time, the materials, shipping etc all has to be used EACH time. Yes there is an initial base cost to wrote a code after that it there is no more loss.

Correct, it only has to be made once, but that still does not diminish the value of a virtual item or piece of software. Perhaps there is little to no cost to make a copy of the item, but there is also no profit if you do not continue to charge for each item. After all, no individual or company is going to just sell one item or piece of software a single time and call that done. No, they will want to continue to profit from their work, there is a demand and they are the supply. They still want recognition and profit from something they spent time on. It does not matter at all if they do not need to make it again and again and again, this is not how the virtual market works. Using your logic, every single software company would have gone under long ago.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And in this case they didnt even have to write the code. Go visit the screenshots section and you can see where they got the code directly from PW MY. They may had to have pay royalty fees to use it, but there is no where near the price and cost included as their are with real items. It IS imagninary, IT IS PIXELS, and there IS an ENDLESS amount of it. You simple cant compare to a real world item when talking about what price it should be.

PWE is directly connected to the original creators, they are the "international" branch, so it is doubtful they would have had to pay anything at all. Imaginary means something only exists in your mind, and while you can not actually hold the virtual items in the real world, they still exist and are the product of very real work. Again, the software and virtual item market is different than the so-called "real world market", you have to sell copies, this is how it has always been. Nobody is going to work for the profit one single sell brings, nor will they give everything away after that. What part of this system are you failing to grasp?

I will say it again, while the comparisons between physical and virtual items is flawed, it certainly shouldn't be disregarded completely. Personally, I am not trying to compare real world items to anything virtual, I am simply defending the worth of things that only exist as ones and zeros.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question: Would microsoft make more money if they lower the price of windows? If so, why won't they lower the price?

O.o ok..... Windows drops their prices 6months -1 year after releasing their stuff..

and yes.. you can see all the suggestions and comments here.. ~

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=40621
78 pages ftl

Kazue - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You keep trying to use physical products as examples which you just cant do. First your gas price post and now this. Anything that is physically made in real life has real materials that go into making it. There are REAL costs involved in getting those materials to a plant, then manufactoring that item, then boxing it, shipping it, retailing it, and advertising, and the manpower that goes into each of things. Microsoft has to look at the price it costs them to make each windows unit and then set a reasonable price above that in which they can make a profit.

Here you are talking about something imaginary. Its just pixels/code. Its unlimitless. There are no materials going into making it, no plant where everything is put together, no shipping costs to get it to you. They have an ENDLESS supply. They can charge w/e they want for cash shop items because it costs them nothing to have them. Thats the difference and why we expect and they should lower the prices.

I'll agree with you that much, that physical things has physical cost. MSFT can decided to make 10 million copies of windows or 11 mil. The production, logistics, and advertising cost is sunken cost since i don't expect a huge increase in cost to increase production of CDs.
Lets look at some realistic data here. From October 1 through December 31 of 2006, MSFT made $37.6 million per day from windows desktop at a cost of $9 million per day. Thats a 75% profit margin on windows, so do you still think they are selling it at a "resonable price"? I'll give you that 2006 is one of the so call good years compare to 2008. But look at 2008, is MSFT lowering its window price cause of the economy? Not really. Are they lowering the price because AAPL is taking markets shares? Still no. Why? Because they don't have to. There is enough people who is willing to buy at the given price.

And I do think gas price is a pretty good comparsion to charms, both are comsumable. Look at it this way, even with today's expensive gas. people still buys them. Why? Because its convinent to have gas. They can get to places in the comfort of their own car. They can get to places fasters and more efficient. They don't have to take public transportation (public transportation is just like grind, both are time comsuming). isn't that the same as charms. With charms, players can level much faster without down time (more efficient and convinent). Even with the expensive price of gas/charms. People will still buy them, cause its more comfortable, convinent, and efficent for them.

And for the record, i like to be able to buy cheaper gas/charms. But its not going to happen. I mean, if there is already 10 threads calling for chaper charm. The 11th one prob won't matter much. I am sure the devs know of the so called "charm" sitution. But they are prob making enough money that they won't need to lower the price.

EDIT: If you think 75% margin is high. Go research on profit margins of some biopharm companies. Those profit margin are approaching 95%. And it generally will take 2-5 years to recover all the research/dev cost to develop the drug. And yet, those companies are selling drungs at 90% profit margin for 10-17 years. How can they do this? Because sick people has to buy the drug... or they die. And if those sick people die, there'll just be more sick people to replace them. So if players leave due to the high price of charms, as long as the game gets new players. Its all good. And i am pretty sure they are getting enough players, since they just opened a new server. Which mean at the current price of charms, they are still expanding the player base.

starman17 · October 2008

itunes sells 0's and 1's ..

Cetax - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And for the record, i like to be able to buy cheaper gas/charms. But its not going to happen. I mean, if there is already 10 threads calling for chaper charm. The 11th one prob won't matter much. I am sure the devs know of the so called "charm" sitution. But they are prob making enough money that they won't need to lower the price.

Also the longer they hold out, when the next sale comes guess how many charms will be sold? >.>

xfiercex · October 2008

a quick comment about the windows thing, by windows we are talking about windows vista/xp the system right? so they sell for high prices and people are willing to pay them are because they WORTH those prices. I dont understand much about computers but it looks like it takes a lot of programmers and time to program windows vista, but how much time/programmer did it take to write a code for the 50$ boa mount?

sorry for my grammar, i dont speak english very well

Neurosis - Lost City · October 2008

xfiercex wrote: »

a quick comment about the windows thing, by windows we are talking about windows vista/xp the system right? so they sell for high prices and people are willing to pay them are because they WORTH those prices. I dont understand much about computers but it looks like it takes a lot of programmers and time to program windows vista, but how much time/programmer did it take to write a code for the 50$ boa mount?

sorry for my grammar, i dont speak english very well

I think you're missing the point.. Its the programming that makes the boa that comes to life as a whole. It's more than just a few jpg images thrown on the screen. The boa itself is not hard, of course, but you have to develop the platform for the boa to begin with. Sure, making Window's calculator is not hard, but you need the Windows platform to begin with.

xfiercex · October 2008

Neurosis - Lost City wrote: »

I think you're missing the point.. Its the programming that makes the boa that comes to life as a whole. It's more than just a few jpg images thrown on the screen. The boa itself is not hard, of course, but you have to develop the platform for the boa to begin with. Sure, making Window's calculator is not hard, but you need the Windows platform to begin with.

oh true, you need the PWI the game as a platform for the BOA mount, i didnt think of that. but still, i think windows the system is worth their price, but the game+ a boa mount doesn't worth 50$ xD

markillian · October 2008

Its not worth $50 to you. How many people bought it? I've seen about 25 or 30 or something. They all thought it was worth it.

satr · October 2008

If you think they only have to make the game and it is done. No. Thats not how it works. They still need people to work for them; to fix bugs, make new items, ect. If some item cost $60, that item is going into all the work that had been spent on that. Ok, it may not be worth $60 but you can't say its a one time thing. More and more works is needed constantly. If they only have a limited amount of players they need the most money they can get from them even if the comunity is growing. If they only get say, $120 for one day, thats not going to be enough to pay everyone for the work they have put in for that day.

troll · October 2008

markillian wrote: »

Its not worth $50 to you. How many people bought it? I've seen about 25 or 30 or something. They all thought it was worth it.

good luck getting those 25 or 30 people with their $50 to keep the server running.

don't worry though, i gobble **** for fun and profit

Rabidpanda - Heavens Tear · October 2008

What about the cost of the database and the servers and computers? What about the costs of the business building, servers, and maintenance... You are all acting like you know everything when you have very small glimpses of what could be out there. Get a CPA and work for a while in the real world and then see what you think about PW's prices.

Maxgod - Heavens Tear · October 2008

Rabidpanda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What about the cost of the database and the servers and computers? What about the costs of the business building, servers, and maintenance... You are all acting like you know everything when you have very small glimpses of what could be out there. Get a CPA and work for a while in the real world and then see what you think about PW's prices.

OMG, you sound like a newbie to the financial world. A high price has nothing to do with cost and market price is NOT determine by cost of production, it's determined by the market data. Market data does not include cost. Market data includes things like competitions, product demands, and economic trends. It does not include cost. Reguardles of your cost, your price must be where the market tell you where it should be. Market price is what makes a company profitable in the long term. A good example of this is when Microsft releases the Xbox. The cost of production exceeds market price. They had to sell it at a loss and make up the loss in the long term with game sale.

*Do not advertise other games on these forums.*

Deloura - Heavens Tear · June 2010

I know this is an old post but this is definitely not the case. If you buy windows, you only do that once for every computer you have. But then the stuff you buy on pwi are either durable, something you'd get bored of like fashion (changing colors, buying new), aero gear (wind widgest), and so many things I can't count! Assume you wanna buy most of these. I'm sure you'd pay less buying "windows".

And thanks. XD

RedsRose - Lost City · June 2010

Deloura - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know this is an old post but this is definitely not the case. If you buy windows, you only do that once for every computer you have. But then the stuff you buy on pwi are either durable, something you'd get bored of like fashion (changing colors, buying new), aero gear (wind widgest), and so many things I can't count! Assume you wanna buy most of these. I'm sure you'd pay less buying "windows".

And thanks. XD

Please don't necro old threads.....b:surrender

This is from 2008....

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · June 2010

lol... Epically old necro... b:shocked Die!

RemyHadley - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question: Would microsoft make more money if they lower the price of windows? If so, why won't they lower the price?

In my country (brazil), yes. An Windows 7 is something like R$500,00~R$700,00 (something like 250,00~350,00 US dollars). This is very expensive here. You can buy on the streets for something like R$10,00 (five us dollars) an copy of that. Of course is illegal, but it's really out of our reallity 500 on a Windows. Most people don't earn this amount of money in a month of work.

So if it was something like R$100,00~R$200,00 (something like 50~100 us dollars) they will sell a lot more Windows, yes.

mrparan · June 2010

RemyHadley - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In my country (brazil), yes. An Windows 7 is something like R$500,00~R$700,00 (something like 250,00~350,00 US dollars). This is very expensive here. You can buy on the streets for something like R$10,00 (five us dollars) an copy of that. Of course is illegal, but it's really out of our reallity 500 on a Windows. Most people don't earn this amount of money in a month of work.

So if it was something like R$100,00~R$200,00 (something like 50~) they will sell a lot more Windows, yes.

Yes, but if they charged for Win7 in Brazil and let's say somewhere else, then there would be an arbitrage potential. Some trader could buy tons of Win7 in Brazil and even selling it for in the other country would make an outstanding profit even after paying all tariffs etc. I think they want to avoid this. They would have to somehow ensure that Brazilian Win7 wouldn't be sold elsewhere... that could be difficult. I think that they simply let it be knowing that common people will download it free. They maybe hope to sell some copies to firms...

TomasRiddle - Heavens Tear · June 2010

The way i see it is that we should all be thankfull that this site hasnt gone the way of other mmorpg and doing a monthly subscription. This is my 4th char and have yet to buy anything from the site. It just takes practice and learning the economy and alot of selling when im asleep to make a decent amount of cash on here to buy gold and remembering that buying low selling high does work, if you know where to sell and what items to sell.

When the gold rate is high in the aution house dont buy simple as that save your coins for when the gold rate goes down. which it deos do i seen it on both the high and low sides and is always changing.

If your looking to buy from the company direct wait til there is a bonus sale they have them all the time you just gotta wait for them.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · June 2010

MODS PLEASE!!!

KILL THiS NECRO!!!!!!

PWI would make more money if lower prices

Comments

Categories