The pure fist build

Shule - Sanctuary
Shule - Sanctuary Posts: 6 Arc User
edited June 2010 in Archer
I've done a good bit of reading on fist builds vs. pure builds. The fist builds offer higher damage from fists, but reduce bow damage, the pure builds offer higher crit rate and bow damage, but don't have the strength to use the best fists. So, I've been working on gearing myself up as a hybrid of the two, and I wanted to ask you what you think. The basic idea is that my stat distribution remains the same as a pure build (1 str, 4 dex) but that through gear selection, I accumulate the needed str to use the best fists.

Currently, this is what my build looks like at lvl 81:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c85b8380594d1a7c

And I'm on track to get this build by lvl 90:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7ac290271f8ae15d

And eventually this build by 100:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a26f6f27980d119f

Anyways, with all of these builds I've of course got a nice bow I can just swap in...currently a CH:S and eventually a HS.

I just wanted to ask you what your thoughts are...do you think the large amount of str gear hurts me over a more dex/crit/hp build?
Post edited by Shule - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This is my build atm and I dont regret it. With the dps I have solo farmed like 4 or 5 rings in City of Abominations (sold for like 18-25M each) and have made like 25 or 30m by scoring high in the nein event. This build pays for itself. Even so I don't recommend it until 99+ when you can get 4 or 5a/s sparked, that's when it really shines.

    I lost 1% crit and 5% base damage but with all the coin I can afford higher refines and a nirvana weapon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
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  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    you dont really need 4.0 unsparked, yes its handy but 3.33 base will keep ya perma sparked(5.0)...if you're demon
    i got and lurveeeee frost fists
    they are same dps as deicdes really and the self heal is really handy
    be warned that hp will make things a bit of a pain with fists ive sacrificed some dex to vit until i can afford higher refines(which the money is coming in real fast with fists)
    if you are getting tt99 boots(which is common now since heavenrage are rare) i dont see tt99 pants being a necessity
    also Love up and down is not your only choice


    get 3 script of fate->pan gu,creator , depending on prices can save you 25%(50mil) cost of scroll of tome

    http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3a3dd797e08697cc
    (blank socket =jade of steady)
  • Killahoe - Harshlands
    Killahoe - Harshlands Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I am pure dex build with a little extra str for warsoul helm.

    I use deicide for pve , no need to restat , just a slight change in gear.

    Band from heavens jail x2 and a cheap str tome works just fine.
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Um, you kinda screwed the numbers since you have an Advanced Spark in the first two. Without that, the numbers in the first two are less than impressive. For example, I'd easily outdamage your 90 build with my +3 BR and I have much inferior gear to that. The pieces I'm missing that you have would be the Lunar cape, the Warsoul helmet and the Rank 4 armor. After all, you cannot get a permanent dual spark with 2.22 atk/s.

    Fist vs Bow with end game gear in mind is a discussion long since done, so there's hardly any point going there.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • hopaqo
    hopaqo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If you're using Fists you're NOT an archer, want fists roll a BM. Simple!!

    No Bow = No archer
  • Admante - Dreamweaver
    Admante - Dreamweaver Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    hopaqo wrote: »
    If you're using Fists you're NOT an archer, want fists roll a BM. Simple!!

    No Bow = No archer

    This build is a bit of a misnomer. It's not actually pure fist in the sense that the archer is built around fists only, but rather the archer is built to be able to use fists effectively while keeping the ability to use bows effectively.
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    This build is a bit of a misnomer. It's not actually pure fist in the sense that the archer is built around fists only, but rather the archer is built to be able to use fists effectively while keeping the ability to use bows effectively.

    Um, wouldn't any normal person just call that a fist/bow hybrid?
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Admante - Dreamweaver
    Admante - Dreamweaver Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes they are... except they are slower and they do not hit so hard.

    But, other than that, they do just the same dps.

    It *could* be if your interval was maxed out with Gorenox Vanity. Then the phys buff would come into play and possibly make it better than Deicides; plus, the hp regen would be very handy since it would proc so often.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It *could* be if your interval was maxed out with Gorenox Vanity. Then the phys buff would come into play and possibly make it better than Deicides; plus, the hp regen would be very handy since it would proc so often.

    this is correct about the aps/dps, its pretty much perma proc during bosses unless very unlucky and you save stat points and the heal is very useful, ive had clerics DC in nirvana and the heal keep me alive
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes they are... except they are slower and they do not hit so hard.

    But, other than that, they do just the same dps.

    frost fists > lunar.

    +15 str, same damage with the buff(basically perm with high interval) and can reach 5 attack speed sparked just like lunar.

    not to mention I got mine +5 g9 for 16mil instead of 50+ for stock lunar claws.

    But, I am biased as I prefer a cheaper cost because I have hh100 fists waiting..
  • Rajpmp - Sanctuary
    Rajpmp - Sanctuary Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is my build atm and I dont regret it. With the dps I have solo farmed like 4 or 5 rings in City of Abominations (sold for like 18-25M each) and have made like 25 or 30m by scoring high in the nein event. This build pays for itself. Even so I don't recommend it until 99+ when you can get 4 or 5a/s sparked, that's when it really shines.

    I lost 1% crit and 5% base damage but with all the coin I can afford higher refines and a nirvana weapon.

    was this using your bow or fists? =o

    im trying to make a pole and fist BM. when i used my fists in nien event (they are not the best of fists btw) the most i got was a training scroll... fail xP
  • hopaqo
    hopaqo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    And yet a slingshot is not a bow, which I am sure horrifies you to no end.

    b:chuckle


    Kinda sure does b:surrender

    But you're forgetting the most important thing, "Range".
  • kdanger8
    kdanger8 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    fists/claws will out damage your bow/sling/cbow with alot of interval. if im not mistaken the only time your out damaging your ranged attacks with fists/claws is when your hitting 4.0 sparked at which point you are perma sparked. but until that point your not doing your full amount of damage with fists/claws. i recommend going pure dex until you have the money and alot of the -hit gear then restatting to claws. that is what i did and it worked out nicely for me. i hit 3.33 unsparked and 5.0 demon sparked.
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm at 1.82 unsparked/2.5 sparked (-0.15 interval) with my fists, and I currently do slightly better damage with fists (3-star Instant Strike with -20% Req) than with my slingshot (+6 W&C) or my bow (+3 Vast Land). I'm a pure Dex build, with only 95 strength including gear bonuses.

    It doesn't take much interval for fists to outdamage your bow once you have Demon Spark, even before you achieve perma-spark. Of course, this only really applies to targets that stand still, and have lots of HP.
  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    ya atm my archer 2,22 no spark and 2.86 spark. with r4 plate.. out dmg my +5 FC gold bow by far.
    tanked pole and nob yesterday with fists on my archer too :D.
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

    102 - Archer - Heartz
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Im pretty curious how archers build their chars using fists. Is 3-5 vit, 130-150 strength for fists and rest dex the most common? Or do people add some extra vit for mele/tank survivability or extra strength for more fist dmg? Do they use re-stat scrolls a lot?

    Thats kinda the only reason why im still hesitating, the fact that i dont particularly like the idea of using a re-stat scroll every week to be pure dex for TW b:surrender. Than use one more restat afterwards to go back pure pve fist mode. I mean loosing 30-100 dex is crit, accuracy and spike dmg that you kinda need to even tickle heavy cash shopped AA users in TW <.<

    Money for Deicide and a few more interval items is really not the issue, but im scared of doing horrible ranged damage and having to spam re-stat scrolls b:cry
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    My Build at 93

    My equips arent close to being the best but it has worked for me till now.

    With XBow

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5237f3bf882b2d67

    With Buddha Fists (127 STR)

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=425dfc71d0c38a86

    The only change here is the Tome. I use Sunny Pass which gives +15 STR but if money isnt an issue for you, you can go for a level higher and get the lvl4 tome which gives +20 STR and other better alternatives.

    With Demon Spark
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2bdadc9833e5a993

    Other STR boosting equips:-
    1.) Barbaric Warrior's Ring (level 40) - 4~5 STR
    2.) Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade (level 90) - 6~7 STR
    3.) Band from Heaven's Jail (level 97) - 6~7 STR

    You could also acquire a 3*/2* cape or accessory which gives the necessary STR bonus.

    The only change I make while using fists is the Tome which gives me an additional 15 str. So with 2 presses of a button I can switch from xbow/bow to a fist. I prefer having my STR to the bare minimum with stats and only use equips to achieve the STR requirement for the fists so that I dont have to keep resetting my stats.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    if you get warsoul helm then the fist str requirement becomes even more mininmal in perspective, youll need high refines on armor for HP for some things, but not all, so no vit is feasible, but a bit of a pain due to our defenses in LA
  • PinkArrow - Heavens Tear
    PinkArrow - Heavens Tear Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I don't like archers and barbarians with fists. Archer is meant to do ranged damage. I think fists sould be only for Blademasters.
  • Relakss - Harshlands
    Relakss - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you dont really need 4.0 unsparked, yes its handy but 3.33 base will keep ya perma sparked(5.0)...if you're demon
    i got and lurveeeee frost fists
    they are same dps as deicdes really and the self heal is really handy
    be warned that hp will make things a bit of a pain with fists ive sacrificed some dex to vit until i can afford higher refines(which the money is coming in real fast with fists)
    if you are getting tt99 boots(which is common now since heavenrage are rare) i dont see tt99 pants being a necessity
    also Love up and down is not your only choice


    get 3 script of fate->pan gu,creator , depending on prices can save you 25%(50mil) cost of scroll of tome

    http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3a3dd797e08697cc
    (blank socket =jade of steady)

    how about changing boots and legs n wep:

    http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=19bff8d87aae9a68

    and if you want a more hybrid build you can make fast money with fists so get some +10 vit stones
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Relakss - Harshlands wrote: »
    how about changing boots and legs n wep:

    http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=19bff8d87aae9a68

    and if you want a more hybrid build you can make fast money with fists so get some +10 vit stones

    for sage thats a good combo
    ps tt100 always comes with 2 socket, its a total pain to find a heart of nature atm, unless you got a ton of luck and friends farming 3-3 good luck finding one in the next months(unless they rerelease those specfic packs or ya wanna spend 200mil on best luck tokens)
  • Relakss - Harshlands
    Relakss - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    for sage thats a good combo
    ps tt100 always comes with 2 socket, its a total pain to find a heart of nature atm, unless you got a ton of luck and friends farming 3-3 good luck finding one in the next months(unless they rerelease those specfic packs or ya wanna spend 200mil on best luck tokens)

    yea i know it sucks i'm saving my best lucks atm :P. i'm an average cash shopperso it will take a while right now i use FC gold fists n bow i'll get my hs first .
    when i have that gear i'll go farm r8 and vit stones have r6 now already.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Sorry for the 1page necro but I'm interested in the fist hybrid build.

    Can someone explain to me perma-spark and demon spark? I thought it's BM only? Also, if I decide to use claws instead of fists, does that mean the perm spark/demon spark won't work or me?
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Sorry for the 1page necro but I'm interested in the fist hybrid build.

    Can someone explain to me perma-spark and demon spark? I thought it's BM only? Also, if I decide to use claws instead of fists, does that mean the perm spark/demon spark won't work or me?

    "Perma-spark" refers to attacking fast enough to gain 3 sparks during the 15 seconds that a Celestial or Demon Spark lasts. This can be achieved if you reach an attack speed of 5 attacks/second. Generally this would be done by reaching 3.33 attacks/second and then using Demon Spark, which would boost you to 5 attacks/second.

    It's "BM only" in the sense that fists are mainly a BM build. However, due to the easier access of -interval now with packs, Archers can also reach perma-sparking speeds. In fact, due to their Rank armor giving -interval after Rank 4, they can do it even better.

    Also, due to the Rank armor, Archers can reach 5 attacks/second even without Demon Spark.

    Also, the best weapon for perma-sparking is the Lunar Glade Claw, Deicide, as it comes with -0.1 Interval, thus it's the fastest, readily available weapon in the game. The only weapon that could surpass it in speed would be a theoretical -0.15 Interval OHT claw or fist, but I doubt such even exists. All of the other options are much more expensive (TT100 fists) or not guaranteed (OHT, Nirvana) or have less -interval (Gorenox:Vanity).
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    "Perma-spark" refers to attacking fast enough to gain 3 sparks during the 15 seconds that a Celestial or Demon Spark lasts. This can be achieved if you reach an attack speed of 5 attacks/second. Generally this would be done by reaching 3.33 attacks/second and then using Demon Spark, which would boost you to 5 attacks/second.

    again ill explain, perma spark you get at 4.0(2.86 base demon), at 5.0(3.33+ base demon) you regain 375 chi in 15 seconds
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Oh right I get it now.

    So where would one obtain the demon spark skill? I assume the archer trainers doesn't teach you that. Are there any more fist/claw skills that archers could learn?

    If the fist build good for PvP incase opponents gets too close or not? I've been using claws for PvE when I've used my knockback arrow as it deals more DPS.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Oh right I get it now.

    So where would one obtain the demon spark skill? I assume the archer trainers doesn't teach you that. Are there any more fist/claw skills that archers could learn?

    lvl 89 at the trainer in heaven/hell map when you choose and complete your demon culti
    no there are no real fist/claw skill for archer, winged pledge/span work but meh
  • Admante - Dreamweaver
    Admante - Dreamweaver Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    again ill explain, perma spark you get at 4.0(2.86 base demon), at 5.0(3.33+ base demon) you regain 375 chi in 15 seconds

    You lose about a second's worth of chi with each triple spark at 4.0 aps. It's not much, but it's noticeable. Good thing there are venos and cloud eruption.
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You lose about a second's worth of chi with each triple spark at 4.0 aps. It's not much, but it's noticeable. Good thing there are venos and cloud eruption.

    Mathematically, you shouldn't. 4 aps x 15 seconds x 5 chi per attack = 300 chi = 3 sparks. You can probably chalk the loss up to lag or the target twitching funny or something though.
  • Noob - Raging Tide
    Noob - Raging Tide Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    at lvl 100...ur gonna get 1 hit by almost anything..o.o if u pvp...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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