The Economy
Sanctam - Dreamweaver
Posts: 328 Arc User
So I've been thinking a lot about the economy of Perfect World lately. It all started when I realized I should probably start thinking about my 9x gear and what I really want. But now that I'm hear, I realize that everything is insanely expensive. Like, how is it that people can make 65m for a weapon?
So I thought about it, and realized that there are two ways to make coin in this game. The first way is by circulating the coin already in game. This is basically what TT runs do. You get the mats, you sell the mats to other players. The prices of the mats are therefore dependent upon what the general populace wants. If nobody wants a TT90 gold mat, then it won't be worth anything. Things like this include mold drops, frostcovered drops, and actual mat farming, such as coal and thread.
The second way is by generating the coin from nothing. These ways include dragon quest drops, coin drops themselves (insignificant), rebirth runs (coins from the mushroom thing), and most importantly Tokens of Best Luck. If no other players played this game, these things would still allow players to make coin, unlike TT.
Now, right now we are seeing the largest inflation of the value of coin in awhile. On the Dreamweaver server, gold is sitting at around 450k, with nowhere to go but up. That means that everything cash shop related is also receiving a rise in price, be it ever so slight.
I think the reason for this is obviously the tiger packs. Now, it's not all the high level gear that is ruining the economy, it was one little reward: Tokens of Best Luck. Tokens of Best Luck are a guaranteed 5 million coin in your pocket. This is because you can trade 2 Tokens of Best Luck for 10 million coin at the PW gift exchange! 10 million coins. Some people say that it's the 2x drops that are really **** us over, but 2x dq mats does not come close to 10 million.
On a good day of grinding, I can grind about 200k-300k worth of dqs in an hour, and that was before the reduction in value. Compare that to the microsecond of opening a tiger pack, and you can see the massive amounts of coins being dropped into the game. A tiger pack costs only 450k at the moment. Thats 2 hours of grinding turned into 5 million, if you are lucky. But even if you think about it, only 1 person in 10 needs to get a Token of Best Luck to make up for all 10 of their 2 hours of grinding.
Now, we know that the majority of the people opening packs are not the ones that are grinding. Given that you only have about a 2% chance to receive something other than tokens, it's not likely that the grinders would waste it. The people opening packs are the cash shoppers, the big ones and small ones. They make money either way, by selling the normal tokens (circulating money), or by generating it (getting lucky).
So basically, inflation and high prices will not stop until packs are out for a prolonged period of time. Maybe even forever. Tokens of Best Luck are simply WAY too much coin being generated. It puts the average person at a disadvantage, meaning they need to spend hours in money circulation situations, such as TT.
So yeah. Thoughts?
So I thought about it, and realized that there are two ways to make coin in this game. The first way is by circulating the coin already in game. This is basically what TT runs do. You get the mats, you sell the mats to other players. The prices of the mats are therefore dependent upon what the general populace wants. If nobody wants a TT90 gold mat, then it won't be worth anything. Things like this include mold drops, frostcovered drops, and actual mat farming, such as coal and thread.
The second way is by generating the coin from nothing. These ways include dragon quest drops, coin drops themselves (insignificant), rebirth runs (coins from the mushroom thing), and most importantly Tokens of Best Luck. If no other players played this game, these things would still allow players to make coin, unlike TT.
Now, right now we are seeing the largest inflation of the value of coin in awhile. On the Dreamweaver server, gold is sitting at around 450k, with nowhere to go but up. That means that everything cash shop related is also receiving a rise in price, be it ever so slight.
I think the reason for this is obviously the tiger packs. Now, it's not all the high level gear that is ruining the economy, it was one little reward: Tokens of Best Luck. Tokens of Best Luck are a guaranteed 5 million coin in your pocket. This is because you can trade 2 Tokens of Best Luck for 10 million coin at the PW gift exchange! 10 million coins. Some people say that it's the 2x drops that are really **** us over, but 2x dq mats does not come close to 10 million.
On a good day of grinding, I can grind about 200k-300k worth of dqs in an hour, and that was before the reduction in value. Compare that to the microsecond of opening a tiger pack, and you can see the massive amounts of coins being dropped into the game. A tiger pack costs only 450k at the moment. Thats 2 hours of grinding turned into 5 million, if you are lucky. But even if you think about it, only 1 person in 10 needs to get a Token of Best Luck to make up for all 10 of their 2 hours of grinding.
Now, we know that the majority of the people opening packs are not the ones that are grinding. Given that you only have about a 2% chance to receive something other than tokens, it's not likely that the grinders would waste it. The people opening packs are the cash shoppers, the big ones and small ones. They make money either way, by selling the normal tokens (circulating money), or by generating it (getting lucky).
So basically, inflation and high prices will not stop until packs are out for a prolonged period of time. Maybe even forever. Tokens of Best Luck are simply WAY too much coin being generated. It puts the average person at a disadvantage, meaning they need to spend hours in money circulation situations, such as TT.
So yeah. Thoughts?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by Sanctam - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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good guess, but slightly off.
^.^
but what do me know? me just a hamster.
d(^.^)
also note that tiger packs = anni packs (which came out first)
b:avoiddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »So basically, inflation and high prices will not stop until packs are out for a prolonged period of time. Maybe even forever. Tokens of Best Luck are simply WAY too much coin being generated. It puts the average person at a disadvantage, meaning they need to spend hours in money circulation situations, such as TT.
So yeah. Thoughts?
Do you just realize these recently ? b:surrender
These game economy already screwed since anniversary pack come out or maybe since chest of coin come out.
CoCoin set gold price at 200k, then someone who selling gold think :
"Hey, why i am not just increase the gold price instead keep it at 200k ? "
Guess he think if it keep at 200k, gold seller would just get the Chest them self then buy hammer and open it. So he increase the price.
Then everything goes worse after Anniversary Pack or dubbed End Game Pack come out, included the following Lucky Coral Pack and New Tiger Year Pack.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
Like, how is it that people can make 65m for a weapon?
1. Merchanting
2. cash shopping[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »1. Merchanting
2. cash shopping
3. Getting paid commission from the occasional sale of boxes which contains your family and friends.
:<
b:shedteardarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I applaud you for looking at the big picture and making an analysis based on that. Unfortunately this isn't the first thread about this and I know how these can turn in, we can do nothing but hope anyway.
Having a way to generate coin through charging zen is the worst thing EVER to happen in a MMO.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Having a way to generate coin through charging zen is the worst thing EVER to happen in a MMO.
Me disagree, there be worse things that can happen.
b:avoid
me has seen things.
o.o'
well since humans have this concept of this "monies" thingy, all coin(s) through charging real life "monies" does is just make the inevitable downfall arrive faster.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Like, how is it that people can make 65m for a weapon?
Make that amount in about a week through simple merchanting.
Opening packs generally loses you money.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »On a good day of grinding, I can grind about 200k-300k worth of dqs in an hour, and that was before the reduction in value. Compare that to the microsecond of opening a tiger pack, and you can see the massive amounts of coins being dropped into the game. A tiger pack costs only 450k at the moment. Thats 2 hours of grinding turned into 5 million, if you are lucky. But even if you think about it, only 1 person in 10 needs to get a Token of Best Luck to make up for all 10 of their 2 hours of grinding.
Now, we know that the majority of the people opening packs are not the ones that are grinding. Given that you only have about a 2% chance to receive something other than tokens, it's not likely that the grinders would waste it. The people opening packs are the cash shoppers, the big ones and small ones. They make money either way, by selling the normal tokens (circulating money), or by generating it (getting lucky).
Its a bit confusing since you mention first that 1 person in 10 gets a token of best luck.. then mention more correctly that there is a 2% chance of something other than tokens. But to be more clear there is a 1.72% chance of getting token of best luck. so not 1 in 10. but 17 out of 1000. Compared to the millions of coins that come into the game each day just from grinding, i doubt this little bit makes any difference.
Your next point on cash shoppes making money from opening packs is wrong too. Regular tokens are selling for around 12k each. 97% of packs have 15 tokens. so at current gold prices. That's 30k per token. So most people who open packs lose money(ALOT of money) .
The economy is screwed up because tons of money comes into the game. And next to none leaves the game. You aren't really seeing just how much money that 200 to 300k per hours of grinding gets, when multiplied by the thousands playing.They need some major coin sinks. They need to sell the packs for a while at around 400k in coins(NOT GOLD)this would get rid of major game money. But they would never do that since they want to suck every penny out of their suckers that they can.
And Your main point is true, just your reasons all wrong. The tiger packs do raise the gold prices. But not because of anything in them adding coins to the game. They raise gold prices because those people with ingame money have nothing else to spend it on, so gamble that they will be 1 or the Very, very few to be lucky.0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »1. Merchanting
2. cash shopping
+1
Either you charge, or merch.
If you cant do either, you may just wanna.....leave then....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »+1
Either you charge, or merch.
If you cant do either, you may just wanna.....leave then....
*Walks out*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
The economy sucks. It has for a while now and it shows no signs of any improvement anytime soon. Because of this, the game is trash. Find a new game.0
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I can haz ur stuff?Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »The economy sucks. It has for a while now and it shows no signs of any improvement anytime soon. Because of this, the game is trash. Find a new game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=763662
Vote for Onions!0 -
Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »+1
Either you charge, or merch.
If you cant do either, you may just wanna.....leave then....
Hm... I'd say you can still get money farming instances, but the higher ones like nirvana/etc. One run taken like what? 15minutes? But this doesn't include OP since she isn't 100 for Nirvana.
As for her 90s gear.... 65 mil for a weapon??? What kind of 90s weapon is 65 mil??? (-90s gold xbow/sling which are kinda lame anyway). It's not hard just doing TT & farming mats for 90s gear...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »Hm... I'd say you can still get money farming instances, but the higher ones like nirvana/etc. One run taken like what? 15minutes? But this doesn't include OP since she isn't 100 for Nirvana.
As for her 90s gear.... 65 mil for a weapon??? What kind of 90s weapon is 65 mil??? (-90s gold xbow/sling which are kinda lame anyway). It's not hard just doing TT & farming mats for 90s gear...
lunar? i heard that the lunar insignia for the weapon sell ~65mil
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Gold is at 500k on LC. It's partially due to the 'trickle down (up)' effect of having so much 2x.
Too much coin in the hands of too little people, driving up buying cost.
In case everyone wonders why, so much more mats were farmed and even though they're sold at much lower prices, the farmers are still making too much money from the 2x and are willing to pay more for gold than the rest of the general population.
Also, not enough people actually spending real money on the game, cause 2x caused the biggest cash spenders to not need to cash shop as much.
At least, most of the major cash shoppers I know aren't spending RL money anymore. They were farming overtime.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »lunar? i heard that the lunar insignia for the weapon sell ~65mil
that's 95, not 90s. She still got plenty of time till 95, unless she plans on hyping the several lvl in a few days. The OP can make a 90s set with the bow that doesn't even require souledge. Then try slowly saving up for lunar or what/ever weap she wants.
x2 Just passed not long ago, was a perfect opportunity to farm the mats. I wasn't 99 but farmed all my gear then. Now I can use it & don't have to run around worrying where the hell I get $ for gold mats.
BTW bought a lunar insig for 56m a few days ago & I still thought that was a bit too much for one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
The gold system is screwed to hell and back, no argument there. But if there is an inflation problem, it's limited only to gold (and there is a gold inflation problem).Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »So I've been thinking a lot about the economy of Perfect World lately. It all started when I realized I should probably start thinking about my 9x gear and what I really want. But now that I'm hear, I realize that everything is insanely expensive. Like, how is it that people can make 65m for a weapon?
[........]
So basically, inflation and high prices will not stop until packs are out for a prolonged period of time. Maybe even forever. Tokens of Best Luck are simply WAY too much coin being generated. It puts the average person at a disadvantage, meaning they need to spend hours in money circulation situations, such as TT.
Most other things, 2x drops evens out. TT mats are actually way cheaper than they used to be. That being said... you're clearly not an high-end merchant or cash shopper, and I'd hate to see any such person either (a) succumb to those sad practices or (b) leave the game because they think they can't have fun without "decent" gear.
So my advice? Don't go for gold TT or Lunar. Just get a cheaper weapon which allows you to be competent. Windcatcher, Burst of Vacuity (if anyone on your server has found that mold)... any OHT wep with good bonuses... all of these would allow you to be competent in PVE and some light PVP. You only want lunar if you're going to try being... *shiver...* "pro." It's not worth it to be "pro," and only CSers can pull it off anyway. -_- But the good news is, you don't need to get a Heaven Shatterer to have fun in this game. Don't fall for that hype.
+1Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Having a way to generate coin through charging zen is the worst thing EVER to happen in a MMO.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Rest of the general population? Its the population thats driving the inflation. The majority of the gold trade is speculation by merchants who don't have the cash shop advantage.In case everyone wonders why, so much more mats were farmed and even though they're sold at much lower prices, the farmers are still making too much money from the 2x and are willing to pay more for gold than the rest of the general population.
Buy, resell higher, buy, resell higher.
They aren't cash shoppers but they're just as guilty of driving price up.
And then we get mad at coin sinks like the tiger badge quest?The chillum is sometimes referred to as a chalice, based on a quote from the Biblical book of Deuteronomy. Thanks and praises are offered to Jah before smoking the chillum.0 -
Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »+1
Either you charge, or merch.
If you cant do either, you may just wanna.....leave then....
any game in this state is no longer a game and should just be unplugged
Since when is 95 not in the 90sb:questionthat's 95, not 90s.
that makes sense and you are right therefore people will call you ignorant and goes back to thisRest of the general population? Its the population thats driving the inflation. The majority of the gold trade is speculation by merchants who don't have the cash shop advantage.
Buy, resell higher, buy, resell higher.
They aren't cash shoppers but they're just as guilty of driving price up.
And then we get mad at coin sinks like the tiger badge quest?Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »+1
Either you charge, or merch.
If you cant do either, you may just wanna.....leave then....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »Rest of the general population? Its the population thats driving the inflation. The majority of the gold trade is speculation by merchants who don't have the cash shop advantage.
Buy, resell higher, buy, resell higher.
They aren't cash shoppers but they're just as guilty of driving price up.
And then we get mad at coin sinks like the tiger badge quest?
No, it's not. It's the majority of regular cash-shoppers, merchanters and farmers who are farming their asses off with their 'cash-shopped end-game gear' and are no longer spending real money, but still burn up gold at ridiculous prices.
Example: Me farming 3-3 for gold mats, selling them and buying Ocean Orbs. For each Ocean Orb that is purchased with in-game coin, that drives the gold prices higher. I'm not going to sit around to wait for my buy price, I'll just purchase gold from the sellers with the lowest offers.... hence drying up the market for lower gold prices and increases everyone's offers to buy.
I'm only a casual cash shopper, but most of the major cash shoppers... the ones who regularly sell gold are no longer doing that, instead they are purchasing gold at higher prices because they no longer cash shop because they don't need to. They sit there and farm now, and end up using the profits generated from farming Nirvana or HH to buy gold.
Why should I spend another cent in-game when I can farm 3-3 like mad during 2x, use that money and the money I get from merchanting to buy the gold I need?
The 'general population' isn't spending 100m coin to buy a several Ocean Orbs to further refine their gear. They certainly aren't doing it with in-game coin either. Only the absurdly geared are.
I'm a 5aps BM. I have all of my end-game gear already. All I am currently doing is refining. I just got all my armor to +5. I have two +10 weapons, one +10 refine was completely farmed with in-game coin. Do you think I'm going to spend any more real-life money for refines? lol. Not a chance. Will it hurt and drive the gold prices because I'll be buying hundreds in gold with farmed money? Absolutely.
If I buy 75 gold with coin right now, I would raise the low sell price from 499k to 510. That's if I only want one Ocean Orb. That would also purchase 1/3 of the currently offered Gold for sale. If I were to buy 3 with in-game coin, I would have purchased all the gold currently in the AH. Would it be replenished, sure, over the span of a few hours. Think that wouldn't drive prices at all? You're high.
Go look at your Gold Trader. What would happen to prices if just one person bought 3 Ocean Orbs with in-game coin. What would that immediately do to prices?
The effects of 2x is finally starting to show in the gold trader. Of course it wasn't immediate because the connection isn't direct.
Also, let me add that there are more factors to this as well, I'm just posting one example of why the prices of gold are skyrocketing. Nein Beast is also introducing a lot of coin thorugh excitement and ecstasy cards as well now. Perfect Tokens of Best Luck are great contributors to the coin supply as well.Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Having a way to generate coin through charging zen is the worst thing EVER to happen in a MMO.
That's probably the first thing I've seen you actually say that I can agree with. .I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Uh, 9x gear and inflation? Yeah, if you plan on buying your 9x gear in gold, in which case, this is beneficial for you as well.Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »So I've been thinking a lot about the economy of Perfect World lately. It all started when I realized I should probably start thinking about my 9x gear and what I really want. But now that I'm hear, I realize that everything is insanely expensive. Like, how is it that people can make 65m for a weapon?
So I thought about it, and realized that there are two ways to make coin in this game. The first way is by circulating the coin already in game. This is basically what TT runs do. You get the mats, you sell the mats to other players. The prices of the mats are therefore dependent upon what the general populace wants. If nobody wants a TT90 gold mat, then it won't be worth anything. Things like this include mold drops, frostcovered drops, and actual mat farming, such as coal and thread.
The second way is by generating the coin from nothing. These ways include dragon quest drops, coin drops themselves (insignificant), rebirth runs (coins from the mushroom thing), and most importantly Tokens of Best Luck. If no other players played this game, these things would still allow players to make coin, unlike TT.
Now, right now we are seeing the largest inflation of the value of coin in awhile. On the Dreamweaver server, gold is sitting at around 450k, with nowhere to go but up. That means that everything cash shop related is also receiving a rise in price, be it ever so slight.
I think the reason for this is obviously the tiger packs. Now, it's not all the high level gear that is ruining the economy, it was one little reward: Tokens of Best Luck. Tokens of Best Luck are a guaranteed 5 million coin in your pocket. This is because you can trade 2 Tokens of Best Luck for 10 million coin at the PW gift exchange! 10 million coins. Some people say that it's the 2x drops that are really **** us over, but 2x dq mats does not come close to 10 million.
On a good day of grinding, I can grind about 200k-300k worth of dqs in an hour, and that was before the reduction in value. Compare that to the microsecond of opening a tiger pack, and you can see the massive amounts of coins being dropped into the game. A tiger pack costs only 450k at the moment. Thats 2 hours of grinding turned into 5 million, if you are lucky. But even if you think about it, only 1 person in 10 needs to get a Token of Best Luck to make up for all 10 of their 2 hours of grinding.
Now, we know that the majority of the people opening packs are not the ones that are grinding. Given that you only have about a 2% chance to receive something other than tokens, it's not likely that the grinders would waste it. The people opening packs are the cash shoppers, the big ones and small ones. They make money either way, by selling the normal tokens (circulating money), or by generating it (getting lucky).
So basically, inflation and high prices will not stop until packs are out for a prolonged period of time. Maybe even forever. Tokens of Best Luck are simply WAY too much coin being generated. It puts the average person at a disadvantage, meaning they need to spend hours in money circulation situations, such as TT.
So yeah. Thoughts?
TT mats? They are way cheaper than even a few months ago, especially 90 and 99. This is not bad. It's good. Plus, you don't even have to pay a single coin for TT gear. You can actually, you know, run TTs. I only spend coin on cash shop gear and farm what's farmable.
It took me two weeks to farm and sell **** to get 65m necessary to buy a lunar insignia ornament. When you really want something and you work hard for it, you'll get it. If you don't wanna put out the effort for it and want it in a timely fashion, be prepared to pony up the $$$, or, like a few friends of mine, spend coin for 5 gold and get lucky as hell on packs.0 -
Economic driving forces are no easier to pinpoint here than in the real world. IMO, it's not "people having too much money". If that was so, wanted commodities would become scarce as people snatch them up. Thus, the prices of the few remaining commodities would go through the roof. However, I still see plenty of these commodities in the auction and cat shops.
It's also not the 2x drops. 2x drops should exert downward pressure on the prices. With more commodities available, it becomes more of a buyer's market.
My guess it's not that there are packs in the boutique, per say. It's that the packs are in the boutique, then not in the boutique, then back in again. When the packs return, people buy as much gold as quickly as they can in order to stockpile packs. This causes upward pressure on the gold prices due to the competition for available gold.
If the packs were to become a permanent boutique item or the packs were no longer available in the boutique there would be more stable gold prices than with the current "in and out" pattern. The feeding frenzy on packs and the resultant inflation in gold prices are fueled on speculation that the packs will leave the boutique and thus only be available through the stockpiled cat shops. Thus, people's avenues "to get rich quick" shift from boutique to cat shops.
BTW, here is an ignorant question on my part. I see complaints about people buying their armor and weapons from the cash shop. ...But, I have yet to see a piece of armor or a weapon for sale in the cash shop. Could someone explain how someone cash shops for something that is not for sale in the cash shop?Since when did the word "fail" change from a verb to an adjective? A character can "fail" (as a verb) or be a "failed" character (as an adjective), but there is no such thing as a "fail" character.
If "Barb" (not "arian") is short for Barbarian and "Veno" (not "mancer") is short for Venomancer then shouldn't we be calling Assassins something other than "sins"?0 -
KayLinda - Sanctuary wrote: »BTW, here is an ignorant question on my part. I see complaints about people buying their armor and weapons from the cash shop. ...But, I have yet to see a piece of armor or a weapon for sale in the cash shop. Could someone explain how someone cash shops for something that is not for sale in the cash shop?
WITH the cashshop is the keyword here. Not to mention that there are weapons, rings, helmets, robes and stuff like that in the packs.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
KayLinda - Sanctuary wrote: »It's also not the 2x drops. 2x drops should exert downward pressure on the prices. With more commodities available, it becomes more of a buyer's market.
2x drops reduces the prices of items that can be farmed but increases the price of gold indirectly. 2x creates more coin in the economy from the grinders. Many of those grinders buy mats from the farmers. The farmers take that coin and buy more gold from the AH. The price of gold rises. Add to the fact that a lot of people who used to cash in don't anymore. I, for one, refuse to spend any more real life money in this game. But over the course of the next few months, I'm going to be using up quite a considerable amount of the gold supply to refine my gear. I'm just one person. I know at least a dozen other people that are pretty much doing the same thing.BTW, here is an ignorant question on my part. I see complaints about people buying their armor and weapons from the cash shop. ...But, I have yet to see a piece of armor or a weapon for sale in the cash shop. Could someone explain how someone cash shops for something that is not for sale in the cash shop?
Go to the Auction House. Talk to the NPC. Pick the option 'Gold Trader'.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
Example: Me farming 3-3 for gold mats, selling them and buying Ocean Orbs. .
how u farm 3-3 ? saved instances with a cleric?0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »<snip> Add to the fact that a lot of people who used to cash in don't anymore. I, for one, refuse to spend any more real life money in this game. But over the course of the next few months, I'm going to be using up quite a considerable amount of the gold supply to refine my gear. I'm just one person. I know at least a dozen other people that are pretty much doing the same thing.
Go to the Auction House. Talk to the NPC. Pick the option 'Gold Trader'.
Some interesting points here. I am going to take this a little further. If I get this right then the following must be true:
-- Good armor and weapons cannot be bought directly from the boutique. However, gold can be converted into game coin via the auction house.
-- Those coins can then be used to buy armor and weapons from another player (most common vehicles for purchase being cat shops and auction)
-- Seeming that armor and weapons (other than lower-level NPC direct buys) need to be either collected by the seller as a mob drop or manufactured by the seller. So someone had to hunt for the weapon and/or manufacturing materials to begin with let alone skill up to manufacture them (where needed)
-- Seller places weapon/armor up for sale at a decent profit.
-- Buyer purchases weapon/armor without hunting for it; seller makes nice cash profit. (ok, so far, who loses here?).
-- There seem to be a few types of buyers here: grinders, other merchants, cash shoppers and some combination of these 3.
-- Grinders will eventually earn the coin to purchase seller's weapon/armor. How long does buyer want to wait for return on investment? Or does buyer continue to drop price until it sells?
--Other merchants may be a quicker turnaround - but, hey, someone has to be buying their goods first. And there is the possibility they are selling the same items.
-- Cash shoppers represent best chance for quick return on investment and probably contribute the most to in-game economics (by injecting quick, fresh cash flow into economy).
Guess my point is that the game economy needs both ends to work: those that obtain/manufacture the goods to sell and those who can get quick cash in their hands to buy them. Like it or not, but cash shopping seems to be a vital part of the game (more than just paying PWE's operating costs). Otherwise, get a quick mount and beat everyone else out to the herbs
If people really want to stop others from cash shopping for armor and weapons (and they can't be bought in the cash shop), then quit hunting for them, manufacturing them and selling them.Since when did the word "fail" change from a verb to an adjective? A character can "fail" (as a verb) or be a "failed" character (as an adjective), but there is no such thing as a "fail" character.
If "Barb" (not "arian") is short for Barbarian and "Veno" (not "mancer") is short for Venomancer then shouldn't we be calling Assassins something other than "sins"?0 -
KayLinda - Sanctuary wrote: »Guess my point is that the game economy needs both ends to work: those that obtain/manufacture the goods to sell and those who can get quick cash in their hands to buy them. Like it or not, but cash shopping seems to be a vital part of the game (more than just paying PWE's operating costs). Otherwise, get a quick mount and beat everyone else out to the herbs
Yes, it does need to work from both ends. However 2x skews this towards the people who would normally cash shop some, but with 2x earn enough from it that they no longer need to. There's always going to be the casual cash shopper who will drop 10-20 bucks from time to time to sell for coin. I used to be one of them. However, due to 2x drops I no longer need to sell gold purchased with real money, however I'm still using roughly the same (or more) gold. That creates a vacuum. Either someone needs to step in and add that 20-50 I would spend every month or two AND cover what other things I would buy with gold during that same time frame. So, actually, my not spending real money anymore eliminates my gold from the pool and drains that much additional from the gold supply.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Ideally,
2x drops
2x gold (when charging zen)
would make this game easier in both aspects. Or half the prices in the boutique, but we know it ain't gonna happen. Maybe not for mounts and aerogear but for more expensive stuff like D.Orbs, or charms.
Also has anyone wondered that a lot of people may be less inclined to charge for PWI, seeing as it gets all the negative reviews and all lately? (at least in contrast to before)0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Also has anyone wondered that a lot of people may be less inclined to charge for PWI, seeing as it gets all the negative reviews and all lately? (at least in contrast to before)
That happens to most F2P MMOs. It so cool for the first year, then it's nothing.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Ideally,
2x drops
2x gold (when charging zen)
*facepaw*
That be what you believe = ideal?
b:surrenderdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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