Sage barb = dead end?

mmmmm....how about more p.def more HP..better tankers O.o

SAGE barb FTW

Yeah sage for cata pulling and ninja armaggedons. If not, then convert to demon to become a 5aps wannabe, or not...

Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

DEMON barb FTW

better agro keepin, deal full damage in tiger form ;o

LoLz...AXE and hammer mastry for sage ijs :P

oh btw ...every1 can steal aggro these days from a barb ^^

Nawww, this wins: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6b3f7df7040f635f

It's true that endgame barbs, whether sage/demon, can dish some really good damage. But with all the event gear and -interval craze, the dps on damage dealers is just insane. I see so many fist barbs now because it gives them the ability to kill a lot more effectively. Also, seeing archers and clerics with 12k hp unbuffed just makes our class that much less needed.

Other than cata pulling or a few instances (or people asking you for buffs), I don't see much potential for sage barbs unless you go with the -interval craze as well.

The sage barbs are definitely needed/preferred for TWs (catapulling) but when it comes to dealing damage Demon Barbs out-damage Sage barbs. Ofcourse, the Axe and Hammer Mastery and str of titans are great passive and active buffs that give a reliable base damage to the Sages, but just one skill from the Demon barb would tip off the balance - Beastial Onslaught.

Since HP is easy to get nowadays with all the vit stones and refinements, dealing damage (to secure aggro) is what is needed in instances and not to mention PvP. The extra crits from Demon buffs and Onslaught easily make them better damage dealers. Infact, as someone pointed out in another thread, fist BMs are proving to be better tanks than barbs since they can hold aggro with constant demon sparking and the other DDs need not hold back, thus slaying the bosses faster. This gives all the more reason for a barb to go fists and get a 5 aps speed.

A simple combo of Demon Onslaught (35% crit) + attacks with fists (3.33 aps) > dps than Fist BMs. So yeah, these are the reasons for so many going demon with fists/claws.

Not sure about the rumors of Fists/Claws limited to BMs.

Don't forget, the assassins - Stealth BMs b:chuckle I guess we've to wait for cute little foxy BMs too, wonder when the venos get into the act.. b:laugh

Azazel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

DEMON barb FTW

better agro keepin, deal full damage in tiger form ;o

Barbs supposed to be keeping aggro regardless... b:sweat

XxIfritxX - Lost City wrote: »

LoLz...AXE and hammer mastry for sage ijs :P

oh btw ...every1 can steal aggro these days from a barb ^^

Then the barbs must of not been playing right, only way for barbs to lose aggro from someone is when the barb way lower leveled than the DD. Or when it comes to rewrite from another barb's aggro skill or pet's aggro skill.

I always wondered why people gave Yulk so much ****...but it's becoming clear to me that he really does spew alot of nonsense.

Come on man. Come on.

But why nerf demons? It doesn't help sages to have another route nerfed, and it certainly doesn't help the big #1 problem facing ALL barbs at the moment.

Our main aggro skill tops out for us by lvl54. This means your best aggro holding days are from lvl 54 into your mid 70's(where the rest of your aggro skills top out) and then its downhill from there. By the time you hit lvl 89 you are starting to get desperate for that demon/sage flesh ream.

And that USED to be enough, with lvl 11 flesh ream and lvl 10 support aggro skills you could hold aggro pretty well without too much of a fight. Now, however, everything from uber-high damage dealing weapons, crazy attack speed dps, and a cheep supply of sage/demon dd skills can really overshadow our long outdated skill based aggro.

And while our DPH and spike isn't horrible, our DPS just cant keep up to help augment skill aggro with damage. I'm talking sage AND demon here, as the slight difference between the 2 is too thin to warrant a big enough difference in damage aggro to really matter.

So endgame pve we have excessive hp for MOST bosses, underwhelming aggro retention, lesser DD support...at least we have good buffs. No wonder more and more barbs are going demon now to try to even the weak spots out, but its still no fix.

Lets face it, we need new/better/revamped aggro skills late/end game to remain viable as 'tanks'.

Oh, and the easy fix for all those 5aps BM's who god-mode tank everything on easy mode is not to nerf demon spark, but to make -interval gears do what their description says they do. Claws with -.10 second interval between hits should mean just that, claws with a 10th of a second shaved off between hits, not a 10% boost in attack speed as it works now. That would do wonders in balancing out all weapon dps.

/rant, sorry

Well, even if our Ream gets tweaked and, let's say, that it contains the capability of retaining aggro through out the boss' life with just a few Reams, it doesn't really solve the problem of fist BMs being preferred over us since an axe barb <<<< fist bm in damage..

Logically, if you have a good squad with decent clerics, why would you give a spot to a person who is able to keep the aggro on the boss doing very little damage instead of a person who is able to keep the aggro just by the massive amount of damage he does to the boss. Its definitely true that the -interval stuff BMs give us no reasons whatsoever to tank most of the instances endgame.

So bottom line is Barbs are gonna be used only for the bosses that deal huge damage (not many out there), WBs and TWs catapulling..

As for the fist BM > fist Barb in PvE - it has been agreed in the BM forum itself that this is not true. Fist BMs sure are devils in PvP but in PvE we do just as much damage as they do.

XxMountMexX - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm sry... but are you all seriously that clueless as to using a barb? Sage/Demon barbs can still hold agro to a 5aps per second bm easily... its only a matter of slowly flipping through ALL of your aggro skills (One by one... including maybe a genie one) with using ream the most to keep aggro... thats pretty much all you have to do.. and as for the demon barbs having more attack power than sage, well as stated earlier in this thread.. ain't much of a difference.. the only thing demon barbs have on sage barbs is full attack in tiger form and vice versa sage barbs have the hp bonus... still not that big of a difference in damage.. and sorry for ranting.. getting tired of these idiotic threads continously coming up.. btw Danger.. its all about how you play the barb as to whether demon or sage suits you.. just look at how you play the game. (ends rant)

Win b:victory

Its better of to show people ingame rather than telling from forums, its the most accurate way anyways. I don't have problems with aggro even if LVL70+ go all out when I tank on my barb....

Edit: (people call me troll on the forums when I'm not b:sad)

XxMountMexX - Sanctuary wrote: »

ain't much of a difference.. the only thing demon barbs have on sage barbs is full attack in tiger form and vice versa sage barbs have the hp bonus... still not that big of a difference in damage..

Hah, are you so bad at math? Your weapon damage is HALVED in True Form if you are Sage.

That means you'd need to have a weapon TWICE as good as a Sage Barb to have the same damage as a Demon Barb. So I'm guessing probably, if same weapons.... +10 refinement. Not much of a difference, I beg to differ.

XxMountMexX - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm sry... but are you all seriously that clueless as to using a barb? Sage/Demon barbs can still hold agro to a 5aps per second bm easily... its only a matter of slowly flipping through ALL of your aggro skills (One by one... including maybe a genie one) with using ream the most to keep aggro... thats pretty much all you have to do.. and as for the demon barbs having more attack power than sage, well as stated earlier in this thread.. ain't much of a difference.. the only thing demon barbs have on sage barbs is full attack in tiger form and vice versa sage barbs have the hp bonus... still not that big of a difference in damage.. and sorry for ranting.. getting tired of these idiotic threads continously coming up.. btw Danger.. its all about how you play the barb as to whether demon or sage suits you.. just look at how you play the game. (ends rant)

You aren't keeping aggro from a 5.0 for more then 10 seconds so good luck with that.

-int % based and everything is def evened out with aggro. You can also keep the -.1 or so as a stack AFTER demon spark.

(atk rate * demon spark) + whatever -int gear

It confuses me that NOTHING else in the game stacks on top of each other besides demon spark and -int gear....what's up with that?

I think that would def make it easier for us to actually do our job. As to the BMs will be preferred....well they can be we all know when it comes to keeping aggro on groups of mobs and making it easier on everyone else in the squad a barb is preferred. Plus if stuff goes wrong we have invoke and other skills so we stay alive a lot better then a BM can.