Sage/Demon

IIAlexll - Lost City · May 2010

what path should i choose considering i like to pvp/pk... are both equal on those terms? and can someone list pros and cons of both plz? tyb:surrender

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · May 2010

I believe there already more than 10 thread talking about these . . b:surrender
And somehow i feel these may ended into another sage vs demon thread ?

\____/ - Harshlands · May 2010

Just my perspective. Demon.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2010

There is a search feature for a reason, and if you are too brain dead to figure that out you can just look through the first pages of this section to find sage/demon/culti in the title and do your own research.. or look at the guides etc.

Anyway, you are too low level to worry about it, unless you are 80+ you can pretend your 89 culti doesn't exist. The debate over sage vs demon has been going on since the game has been out, which should tell you in itself that they are pretty equal. You won't **** up your character going either way, it just depends on your play style. Now you can go figure out the pros and cons by checking the dozens and dozens of threads talking about that, or you can see the differences here.. http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

\____/ - Harshlands · May 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There is a search feature for a reason, and if you are too brain dead to figure that out you can just look through the first pages of this section to find sage/demon/culti in the title and do your own research.. or look at the guides etc.

Anyway, you are too low level to worry about it, unless you are 80+ you can pretend your 89 culti doesn't exist. The debate over sage vs demon has been going on since the game has been out, which should tell you in itself that they are pretty equal. You won't **** up your character going either way, it just depends on your play style. Now you can go figure out the pros and cons by checking the dozens and dozens of threads talking about that, or you can see the differences here.. http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

Just wondering... What did you go?

Adroit - Lost City · May 2010

\____/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Just wondering... What did you go?

sage, with no regrets whatsoever

Tivas - Archosaur · May 2010

Adroit may i ask why? Soon ill be 89 im more towards to go demon cause or the reduce chan of some skills but the sage chi skill and bids.. but the demon spark oh my oh my... i just likes to see something that tells me ok this is the path....

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2010

\____/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Just my perspective. Demon.

your perspective should just be to shut up in that kind of matter.

Shadowvzs - Lost City · May 2010

Tivas - Archosaur wrote: »

Adroit may i ask why? Soon ill be 89 im more towards to go demon cause or the reduce chan of some skills but the sage chi skill and bids.. but the demon spark oh my oh my... i just likes to see something that tells me ok this is the path....

some ppl say if u dont think u will play too long and lv up till 100 then go hell but in pwi this not really acctual, instead vs pw ms, here have exp scroll/oracle and hyper exp stone for fast lv so not too hard lv till 100.

true both good, in my case i prefer better the highest dmg than the faster casting (cause alot ppl thinking on what better for him: faster speed or higher nuke dmg, 1vs1 or group vs group pk)

Lucifer - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

your perspective should just be to shut up in that kind of matter.

lol why so mean to the poor guy?

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2010

cause a lvl 7 can't give advice of culti paths, regardless of what your main class is/was before. If you don't have a 92+ (with 92 skills learned) giving advice for culti is like walking into Noma and start giving culinary advice (if you wonder what's Noma, check this http://www.theworlds50best.com/awards/1-50-winners/noma)

Tivas - Archosaur wrote: »

Adroit may i ask why? Soon ill be 89 im more towards to go demon cause or the reduce chan of some skills but the sage chi skill and bids.. but the demon spark oh my oh my... i just likes to see something that tells me ok this is the path....

sage gameplay evolves around chi. Everything you do will be chi based.
5% extra dmg from masteries will matter a lot when your weapon has high refines, and that applies to every hit. 3% crit from demon applies to 3/100 hits.
Demon has more control skills (SR gets 20% stun), Hailstorm gets 50% freeze and pdef is 150% versus 120% on sage. Increase channel in spark vs 25% less damage received during spark.
Building on Channel for wizard is flawed and very expensive. To get to a point where channel really matters you need to be above 60%, so the extra 25 from spark will really give you insane DPS.

Both paths are good, Sage is more biased toward TW/PvE content and Demon for PvP/solo stuff.
WARNING - cultivation path will not raise you from noobness to awesomeness. Culti just adds a little bit on top of something. Don't think that a culti path will make or break you as a wizard. Choose wisely.

PS: Well, cultivation changes will be available through boutique with the next expansion ...so I think we're wasting everyone's time here. Base skills can be acquired with 25-50k/piece in AH so beside 3-5 mil SP (that can be recovered in 2 Hyped FC) there is nothing to lose. Toss the coin, chose whatever, switch if you don't like it.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2010

Tivas - Archosaur wrote: »

Adroit may i ask why? Soon ill be 89 im more towards to go demon cause or the reduce chan of some skills but the sage chi skill and bids.. but the demon spark oh my oh my... i just likes to see something that tells me ok this is the path....

Well the way I think about it, you need chi to kill someone that is good. Sitting there and using pyro gush over and over just doesn't kill anybody decent.. so you need to add in an ult, or sutra, or spark etc. With the way genies and apoth pots and whatnot, usually the first few times you try to use your sparks.. it will be countered. The idea of being able to try it over and over with all the chi from sage was a big plus for me.

When I was looking at the benefits of both cultivations, I didn't really see anything game changing from demon. There is a few -channeling on skills, a little more control on a few others, more damage on a few (although sage masteries basically cancel out demon pyro/sandstorm) etc. There just wasn't anything I saw that would really make a difference in a fight. When I checked sage, obviously the chi was a big plus, and sage BIDS sealed the deal for me. The extra 30% crit on BIDS is obviously amazing in TW.. but also in 1v1 pk its awesome for bypassing somebody's charm. Although demon would have the advantage in a 1v1 where we just spam skills at each other.. I don't let myself get killed like that. I only sit there and spam skills for some chi, take a few steps back and wait for my charm to recharge and then try using chi again. Works great for me, others couldn't stand playing the way I do.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · May 2010

Also sage=independent of mana(with right combo on long runs) because of 3spark much more often. I even don't have mana pots in inventory anymore.

Bobobobobo - Lost City · May 2010

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

But switching cultivations will be hellishly expensive, if you get all the skills you need to properly evaluate the cultivation you choose.

Meanwhile, I am not convinced that channelling must be irrelevant for wizards -- it of course means nothing for the tactic where you disable someone, stack debuffs and then kill them, and it means nothing when you AoE a crowd and either die two seconds later or laugh because they all died, but wizards do not need to be limited to those two tactics, and does not have to be insanely good to be an advantage. For example, among other things, fast channelling means fast chi building, and we all know how useful chi can be.

Channeling is relevent, it means using 300% weapon damage + 4000 to 6000 damage skills easy (SS, GS, DPyro). And better channeling=better kiting, =good for pvp.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · May 2010

hopefully this will solve the QQ about sage/demon once and for all (lol ye right) u can now switch cults if ur unhappy just go with ur guts if u wanna change u can. bye

but well maybe this will help u

im sage. im happy wtih sage . always have chi got very nice dmg from mastery i love the bonus's

now there are alot of skils in demon i wish i had. the chan on demon is very very nice.

there is more to it but if u want the main sauce its like this :

sage > chi
demon > chan

u need both chan and both chi to kill a person , u decide which u personally need more

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2010

chan u can improve with gear.
Chi not.

True, having chi skill on genie is a benefit, but hey, sage can have it to. I have a utility genie I use in 3rd map grind/pve. I can run for hours spamming whatever skill i want, I won't run out of mana/chi and I will drop ulti's like there is an apocalipse comin.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

chan u can improve with gear.
Chi not.

True, having chi skill on genie is a benefit, but hey, sage can have it to. I have a utility genie I use in 3rd map grind/pve. I can run for hours spamming whatever skill i want, I won't run out of mana/chi and I will drop ulti's like there is an apocalipse comin.

ya thats true but demon can get 25/20% more chan than we do if u go like pure chan gear

belt neck arm cape rings pants helm wep of the sage, shard it with x2 3% chan and u use demon wq/demon spark (dk if they stack)

u can actully get around 80% chan reduce, now imagine having sutra for 12 sec or so while having demon spark dmg boost on u, its true u will lose a TON of survival but u gotta agree, u will be one heck of a DD.

my point is. both are good there is no better, its just whats better for u

Shadowvzs - Lost City · May 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ya thats true but demon can get 25/20% more chan than we do if u go like pure chan gear

belt neck arm cape rings pants helm wep of the sage, shard it with x2 3% chan and u use demon wq/demon spark (dk if they stack)

u can actully get around 80% chan reduce, now imagine having sutra for 12 sec or so while having demon spark dmg boost on u, its true u will lose a TON of survival but u gotta agree, u will be one heck of a DD.

my point is. both are good there is no better, its just whats better for u

same like with sage wq vs spark. the chanting/mattack dont stacking.

so or 3rd spark and 25% or wq with 20%, correct me if i wrong but i am 99% sure in this, i cant check now that but i remember to this.

Exitium - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Who cares now? Like Surfer said, you can change now for a handful of gold and a couple hundred mirages. Go for what sounds better to you >.>

Watter - Lost City · May 2010

i'm gonna erase this post since Adroit, wizard below, said it's terrible... and, considering that she's a 100, full experienced player, she got ALL reason u.u'

Adroit - Lost City · May 2010

Watter - Lost City wrote: »

http://ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php
look a bit at wizards... meditate bout it and decide ^^
well, i'll post my opinion at each skill... look at their description in ecatomb...

Pyrogram - sage, of course... 30 chi? awesome and demon's less channel is useless at all

Pyroshell - sage. +150% fire defense is better than +15 hp regeneration per second...

Crown Of Flame - whatever. i dunno if 15% more fire dmg is better than -3 seconds in burn

Divine Pyrogram - Sage. It doesn't stack with undine tho...

The Dragon's Breath - hard to decide... i prefer sage but demon's also pretty good...

Will Of Phoenix - demon. i dunno if the aoe increase is in width or range, tho...

Emberstorm - don't know... both are really good but i think demon's a bit better

Blade Tempest - sage. u'll save a lot of spark ^^

Fire Mastery - sage. demon's +crit is achievable by gear...

Gush - sage. with the sage masteries, you'll do more damage than demon in this skill, so demon's quite useless...

Glacial Embrace - sage. same reason than Pyroshell.

Morning Dew - demon. 10% in the sage isn't that frequent, and the additional heal per second makes it a faster (maybe even supportive) heal if spammed... ^^

Frostblade - demon. more damage better than more time... i wouldn't care buffing all again at each 15 minutes...

Glacial Snare - sage. same reason as Divine Pyrogram

Black Dragon Ice Strike - LOL, do i ahve to say? SAGE!!! it's the most feared skill in the game ;D +30% critical rate for 10 seconds AND it applies for the BIDS itself! *O*

Hailstorm - both are equally good can't choose one :P

Wellspring Quaff - well... demon. i woudn't even remember this skill in a battle, but it's a good starting skill if u want to backstab someone... good for pve aswell ^^

Watter Mastery - sage. same reason as Fire Mastery, plus it makes sage gush better than the demon's one.

Stone Rain - also really hard to decide... both effects and really good... so whatever u choose, it'll be good for you '-'

Stone Barrier - demon, of course. more phys. def.? yeah, please ^^

Pitfall - i wouldn't care at all... both effects are like whatever...

Sandstorm - sage. demon's +1200 damage is overpassed by the sage's earth mastery.

Force Of Will - sage! AoE in this skill is awesome, even if it's small :P

Mountain's Seize - well, both are good. i don't think there's a better, but i'd pick sage for this skill...

Earth Mastery - sage. same reason as Fire and Water Mastery, plus it makes sage sandstorm better than the demon's one.

so, overall... i will go sage
and remember, this is an opinion! don't come flaming complaints at me, neither pick sage just because of this post ^^ PICK WHAT FITS U BETTER, DON'T F0RGET!

You really need to level before comparing demon/sage, cuz that list is terrible

Watter - Lost City · May 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

You really need to level before comparing demon/sage, cuz that list is terrible

could u be more rude, please? -.-''
it's just an opinion! i CAPSED "this is an opinion! don't come flaming complaints at me"...
everyone should consider that this is my opinion, based on my experiences u.u'

Adroit - Lost City · May 2010

Watter - Lost City wrote: »

could u be more rude, please? -.-''
it's just an opinion! i CAPSED "this is an opinion! don't come flaming complaints at me"...
everyone should consider that this is my opinion, based on my experiences u.u'

You can tell a list is horribly biased when you talk about -channeling on demon pyrogram as useless, then talk about sage stone rain's -channeling as "really good". The idea is, if you don't have the first idea what you are talking about, don't talk about it. I could use any number of your "opinions" to support my point, but hailstorm is a good example. Saying that both are equal is just dumb, the sage effect is essentially useless (the extra damage is negligible).. while the extra chance to freeze on demon is awesome.

Sage/Demon

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