Adding fists as a support BM

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Delmarte - Lost City
Delmarte - Lost City Posts: 216 Arc User
edited May 2010 in Blademaster
So yah, lv 88 and getting closer to lv 90 and the choice between becoming sage and demon.

I started this game as a vit-build polearm because at the time it seemed like a good choice. And it was fun until 80s when I decided to add some strength and use axes too. I gotta say, it was the best thing I ever did for my bm because AoE grinding became much easier. My stats are still not designed for axe bm, so even in the 90s I'm going to be using TT80 gold axes, but I have no regrets. (I don't miss berserk since I still use polearm for PvP)

What can I say, it suites my style.

Since obviously I like having good defenses sage is a natural choice for me, and from what I've researched it suites polearm very well. However, I've decided to add FISTS! I need to restat. The time has come. I currently have 120 vit. D: Yes my damage and crit rates are low, but it's suited playing style quite well since I mostly go PvE and only occasionally fight against other players.

In fact, one of the main reasons I wanna use fists is so I can gain chi faster and spam heaven's flame and glacial spike on bosses, which I'm finding I'm battling A LOT more trying to get TT mats, going on frost runs, and frantically doing BH runs. In other words I wanna increase my support role and feel a bit more useful. (I also wanna be better at cancelling, and I'm finding it's too slow to switch out weapons and use shadowless, even with hot keys.)

Now my HP, unbuffed, is over 6000. If I reset I'll put 50 vit points into dex and sacrifice 750 HP. I already have 2 misty forest rings so accuracy isn't much of a problem, and magic attacks can't be evaded. But I'll be able to use TT80 gold fists. I'll be more helpful during bosses and will do better at PvE when I have to kill mobs 1v1 quickly. Still, the current vit lets me shrug off almost all boss AoEs and act as a back-up tank better.

My next polearm weapon will be Shatterstar (vit, acc bonus, Heal+purify ability), which is pretty balanced and good for tanking and PvE (useful in PvP too during prolonged battles, such as with venos or other melee classes). It's also what I wanted to use for 1v1 PvE, but fists are really starting to look just as good.

So yah, I guess I'm developing a new concept here, the support BM. b:chuckle

With this in mind, is it worth eliminating survivability for versatility?

Oh yah, not the refining excuse. I'm pretty poor. lol
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If I'm here I'm bored or procrastinating. b:cute
Post edited by Delmarte - Lost City on

Comments

  • Zyfou - Heavens Tear
    Zyfou - Heavens Tear Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    In my opinion, being a "support BM" is actually pretty useful, and it's a very versaile and valuable role depending on the situation. If your squad is having trouble surviving AoEs or other damaging attacks, skill canceling with Shadowless Kick, Lightning Chaser, and debuffing with Sword Stance helps keep them alive and allows the cleric's heals to catch up to the damage dealt.

    For a more "offensive support" role if you're in a squad with power DDers like high interval fist/claw BM or Archer, you can combo (need 3 sparks and full chi for this) Glacial Spike>Extreme Poison>*filler skill for chi*>Heaven's Flame. All those skills at level 10 amp a boss for 170% damage taken, and you can add in veno amps as well. Just unload those amps just as the primary DDer's triple spark animation ends.

    Time it just right and the result is...well...sexy. And since you can use fists and skills to build up that chi, you can get set back up quite easily.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1568031001&dateline=1278493825[/SIGPIC]
  • ManeK - Harshlands
    ManeK - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    hmmm im tempted to go axe/fist hybrid with all this talk :P
    Level 100 Blademaster - Diverse (Harshlands)
    Level 97 Cleric - ManeK (Harshlands)
    Level 91 Wizard - lnnocent (Harshlands)
    Level 86 Archer - AimLow (Harshlands)

    May The Force Not Be With You!! b:victoryb:laugh
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    not sure how you are switching your weapons but by having them on the skill bars is very quick.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    I support my party on my fist/axe BM by buffing, tanking and stunlocking, all of which are easy thanks to the damage and the rate at which you build chi with some interval. Even with my 5.2k hp, I rarely die in instances unless someone really pissed off a lot of mobs.


    And I'd personally go for demon no matter what. Roar won't fail, Roar/Aeolian have less cooldown, Drake Bash and Heaven's Flame last longer, and demon Aura of golden bell is nice for those oshi- moments.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • ManeK - Harshlands
    ManeK - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    okay now i'm defo doing this! :P
    Level 100 Blademaster - Diverse (Harshlands)
    Level 97 Cleric - ManeK (Harshlands)
    Level 91 Wizard - lnnocent (Harshlands)
    Level 86 Archer - AimLow (Harshlands)

    May The Force Not Be With You!! b:victoryb:laugh
  • Delmarte - Lost City
    Delmarte - Lost City Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    I read drunken_chu's fist bm guide, and he said either sage or demon could work even though almost all fist bms go demon. Fist isn't my MAIN path so I'm still confident about sage.

    But today I did a BH79 and because of my vit I survived being attacked by bloodlust loon and in the process saved the life of a wiz right behind me, and I could survive pulling aggro during I think brigand (we didn't have a barb). It's events like that that make me reconsider restating. >.<

    Any more opinions? XDXDXD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If I'm here I'm bored or procrastinating. b:cute
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Delmarte - Lost City wrote: »
    I read drunken_chu's fist bm guide, and he said either sage or demon could work even though almost all fist bms go demon. Fist isn't my MAIN path so I'm still confident about sage.

    But today I did a BH79 and because of my vit I survived being attacked by bloodlust loon and in the process saved the life of a wiz right behind me, and I could survive pulling aggro during I think brigand (we didn't have a barb). It's events like that that make me reconsider restating. >.<

    Any more opinions? XDXDXD

    crab meat sutrashadowless and MSS
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Delmarte - Lost City
    Delmarte - Lost City Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Ok, then let me ask a noob question. Does the trade-off of vit for dex hurt your ability to AoE grind physical mobs or make it better?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If I'm here I'm bored or procrastinating. b:cute
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Delmarte - Lost City wrote: »
    Ok, then let me ask a noob question. Does the trade-off of vit for dex hurt your ability to AoE grind physical mobs or make it better?

    ok bm aoe grind is bassed off doing the highest possibal damage to the mobs in the least amount of time while staying alive with stuns and knockbacks

    aka stun nuke if not dead knock back stun and nuke

    now every aoe that misses a mob = less damage delt so more taken

    and every aoe that crits = 1 mob that basicly instadies so less damage taken

    you also get bolt of tyresseous wich can keep an entire pull from ever hiting you when used with ROTP

    so you take a higher risk but the overall damage you take is lower than a full vit build meaning less healing is needed so you can use more sparks for DD = less healing in a delecious cycle

    and oddly evasion works as a really nice 20% damage reduction while aoeing
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Delmarte - Lost City wrote: »
    Now my HP, unbuffed, is over 6000. If I reset I'll put 50 vit points into dex and sacrifice 750 HP.

    You need to sacrifice ALL your Vit back down to 5 for Axe+Fist. The reason being you only get 5 stats per level, and you need 3 in str per level (remember to include the starting 5) = 272 str at 90 to use current Axes, and 2 in dex per level (again remember to add the starting 5) = 183 dex at 90 to use current fists.

    One of the main problems with being Axes & Fists is you need wealth. First you need to be able to refine & shard to make up for the lack of HP from no Vit. Also for fists to be useful, they need alot of -Int, otherwise they are pretty low DPS (reference, read any of the guides about low fist damage prior to the amassing of -Interval gear that came starting last september with packs).

    Unfortunately, Axes become a necessity if you wish to ever set foot in Frost and Rebirth (and rebirth is needed for chrono maps & 100 culti). AoE grinding is a plus, but not a necessity. So removing from 3 strength per level is never really an option. Fists is a luxury, and while it surpasses just about anything else in DPS for the wealthy, its not for the low in cash people.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You need to sacrifice ALL your Vit back down to 5 for Axe+Fist.
    Did you buy your account?


    You don't need 5 vit to wear axe+fist.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Did you buy your account?


    You don't need 5 vit to wear axe+fist.

    Why dont you do the math yourself;

    Star Axes, GXs (CLAs) (all other 90 axes the same) Level req. = 90. Str req. = 272 (just as i said).

    Deitna Fists, Buddha Fists (all other 90 fists the same) Level req. = 90. Dex req. = 178 (5 less then my estimate).

    178 Dex + 272 Str = 450 Stats.

    Stats gotten by lvl 90 = 89 * 5 + 20 (5 per stat at lvl 1) = 465.
    Subtract 5 forced into Mag & Vit (yes 3 if you restat those out, most dont) = 465 - 10 = 455.
    455 stats able to be put into Str & Dex. 450 Needed. Thats 5 remain (the 5 i over estimated for fists) which means 10 Vit max.

    So excuse me on a mis-estimate of 5 stat points, my point remains valid. Did you buy your account? I was able to estimate very close to reality without looking those up weapons when i made my above post cause i've been PLAYING actively since September of 2008. You appareantly didnt realize how stats distribution works on the other hand.

    The only way to increase vit is;
    (1) Utilizing stats on gear to equip other gear (not a very wise idea or you end up like many friends i've had that have gone to change a single peice of gear & realized that disturbed their delicate balance of stats & needed to restat every time they wanted to get 1 new peice of gear). Doing this unwise method may give you more to put into Vit.
    (2) Buying Vit stones, which goes into my whole point of "Fists are not for the non-wealthy" principle.
  • Delmarte - Lost City
    Delmarte - Lost City Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The only way to increase vit is;
    (1) Utilizing stats on gear to equip other gear (not a very wise idea or you end up like many friends i've had that have gone to change a single peice of gear & realized that disturbed their delicate balance of stats & needed to restat every time they wanted to get 1 new peice of gear). Doing this unwise method may give you more to put into Vit.
    (2) Buying Vit stones, which goes into my whole point of "Fists are not for the non-wealthy" principle.

    lol #1 is exactly what I'm doing. To use both TT80 gold axes and fists I need TT90 green sleeves, pants, sky demon's pearl, and this helmet I got with 5 dex.

    The axes need very little, just the pearl and the sleeves. I could even add a mere 2 points to strength when I next level and just use the pearl. Then I could change whatever I want and still use the axes. The problem is of course the dex, hence the restating. But then at lv 90 I'll only need the helmet.

    By lv 93 I wouldn't need any of my gear.

    Based on this, I only need to reset 50 points.

    I've done the math.

    I've also calculated my fist DPS, and it'll be comparable with my TT90 green pike, minus the special ability and plus the better chi gain.

    I wanna and CAN do this WITHOUT cash shopping. **** the wealthy. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If I'm here I'm bored or procrastinating. b:cute
  • Meursault - Dreamweaver
    Meursault - Dreamweaver Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    (1) Utilizing stats on gear to equip other gear (not a very wise idea or you end up like many friends i've had that have gone to change a single peice of gear & realized that disturbed their delicate balance of stats & needed to restat every time they wanted to get 1 new peice of gear). Doing this unwise method may give you more to put into Vit.
    Actually it's the best way to go unless you're unable to do some elementary school math. Of course you don't just dump all the dex bonus from your gear into vit (your friends don't sound too bright), you have to plan ahead and decide at least some of the gear you will get, set a lowest point for dex bonuses, etc.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why dont you do the math yourself;

    Star Axes, GXs (CLAs) (all other 90 axes the same) Level req. = 90. Str req. = 272 (just as i said).

    Deitna Fists, Buddha Fists (all other 90 fists the same) Level req. = 90. Dex req. = 178 (5 less then my estimate).

    178 Dex + 272 Str = 450 Stats.

    Stats gotten by lvl 90 = 89 * 5 + 20 (5 per stat at lvl 1) = 465.
    Subtract 5 forced into Mag & Vit (yes 3 if you restat those out, most dont) = 465 - 10 = 455.
    455 stats able to be put into Str & Dex. 450 Needed. Thats 5 remain (the 5 i over estimated for fists) which means 10 Vit max.

    So excuse me on a mis-estimate of 5 stat points, my point remains valid. Did you buy your account? I was able to estimate very close to reality without looking those up weapons when i made my above post cause i've been PLAYING actively since September of 2008. You appareantly didnt realize how stats distribution works on the other hand.

    The only way to increase vit is;
    (1) Utilizing stats on gear to equip other gear (not a very wise idea or you end up like many friends i've had that have gone to change a single peice of gear & realized that disturbed their delicate balance of stats & needed to restat every time they wanted to get 1 new peice of gear). Doing this unwise method may give you more to put into Vit.
    (2) Buying Vit stones, which goes into my whole point of "Fists are not for the non-wealthy" principle.
    It's almost impossible to NOT wear any +stat gear. Lv2/3 tomes are cheap, hh90 gold sleeves are cheap, skydemon pearl is cheap, green hh90 pants, any random helmet, and so on.


    At lv70 I was able to wear calamities and hh70 fists with 45 base vit and my character was wearing junk, mostly. And yes I statted my MAG to 3 when gold was low, at lv50 or so. I don't see why you wouldn't.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • FateBlade - Lost City
    FateBlade - Lost City Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    With fists you can interupt boss casting spell, so its really helping.
    A few days ago I tanked Forshura (2-2) with 7x cleric, becouse I was with fists. b:cool
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ManeK - Harshlands
    ManeK - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    wow this thread got serious quick! great discussions though...carry on :P
    Level 100 Blademaster - Diverse (Harshlands)
    Level 97 Cleric - ManeK (Harshlands)
    Level 91 Wizard - lnnocent (Harshlands)
    Level 86 Archer - AimLow (Harshlands)

    May The Force Not Be With You!! b:victoryb:laugh

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