Resistance differance between HA and AA
Comments
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Heavy Wiz gets heavy armor + 150% (demon) pdef boost (Stone Barrier). BM gets heavy armor + 90% (sage) pdef boost (Aura of the Golden Bell). The only other class which gets a +150% pdef boost is a sage veno in fox form. The barb is next with a +120% boost in tiger form (sage)._LiVe_eViL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Wiz can easily get as much pdef as a bm? Self buffed not even close. Fully buffed its close but not as much. Physical Marrow and comparing a wizard, no.
Yeah Physical Marrow will increase the BM's pdef by another 180%, but it reduces mdef by 120% which makes it very, very situational. The wizard's buff has no downsides other than not being able to have the other two elemental shields up.
My heavy veno has hit 22k pdef fully buffed with TT90 gear and regular quest and legendary equipment refined to just +3. I would imagine 28k is attainable with TT99 or Nirvana gear, no shards or crazy refines on ornaments necessary.28kpdef fully buffed (lvl 10 buffs and demon stone barrier) that wizard had to of sharded about 10-12 garnet gems, event gear, and +12 warsong and cube ornaments to do that. Its a bit insane and lol that is all.
And yeah, it is a bit crazy that the two classes which can run around with the highest regular pdef are both casters. At least the veno is locked into fox form and can't cast spells as a tradeoff for that pdef. If I were designing the game, I would change the wizard Stone Barrier boost to a flat level*40 pdef, instead of % of equipment pdef.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Heavy Wiz gets heavy armor + 150% (demon) pdef boost (Stone Barrier). BM gets heavy armor + 90% (sage) pdef boost (Aura of the Golden Bell). The only other class which gets a +150% pdef boost is a sage veno in fox form. The barb is next with a +120% boost in tiger form (sage).
Yeah Physical Marrow will increase the BM's pdef by another 180%, but it reduces mdef by 120% which makes it very, very situational. The wizard's buff has no downsides other than not being able to have the other two elemental shields up.
My heavy veno has hit 22k pdef fully buffed with TT90 gear and regular quest and legendary equipment refined to just +3. I would imagine 28k is attainable with TT99 or Nirvana gear, no shards or crazy refines on ornaments necessary.
And yeah, it is a bit crazy that the two classes which can run around with the highest regular pdef are both casters. At least the veno is locked into fox form and can't cast spells as a tradeoff for that pdef. If I were designing the game, I would change the wizard Stone Barrier boost to a flat level*40 pdef, instead of % of equipment pdef.
Didn't think of HA wizard since HA at endgame for a wizard is not what the average wizard goes for. My point is how many HA wizards are there? AA is what the majority uses at lvl 95+. The dude said its easy and I'd have to say for the big part of wizards that are arcane its not easy to surpass a HA BM. HA works fine on a veno and even I like it on a veno but on a wiz I kinda cringe at the thought. I don't want special cases predetermining someones view of a class when most of it isn't even like that.
For the wizard stone barrier I'd rather leave it alone since I'm barely hitting self buffed 6.9k pdef with +5-6 refines and event gear. You know what I'd have more pdef with your formula then I have now o.o but I'm guessing PWI wont change it to that since refining ornaments is a + for business.0 -
It's actually a good point.
I mean, sure a wiz can hit high defense and all that. But a BM can happily afford to throw full citrines into their set and even go with physical defense ornaments if they choose and still take a good few spells comfortably.
An arcane on the other hand is almost required to use physical ornaments and shard a ton of garnet unless they want to get one shot.
And yes, arcanes can one shot HA classes. But killing an arcane isn't too difficult for a HA either if you know what you're doing. BM's for example have access to True Emptiness, Heavens Flame and insane attack speed with interval gear. Even a simple 3-Spark+Smack has one shot plenty of arcanes for me.
Basically, Heavy is THE best armor in the game.0 -
uhhh not necessarily, depends on how high your ornament refines are and what gear you have. all you need is about 3k base pdef to be able to reach 10k+ pdef fully buffed. then you can afford to socket citrines or vit stones.
besides, wizards can comfortably add vit because their equipment requirements isn't very high in their none-primary attribute; also magic gives them more magic damage than strength gives heavies physical damage, a wiz that has points in vit can still maintain decent base damage.
remember, the factor that is determined by magic points in base magic attack calculation is magic/100
while for physical melee attack the factor is strength/150
some top wizards of sanctuary actually socket attack level stones and still maintain decent hp.
and who the **** cares if you can't reach the pdef of a heavy as a self buffed wizard? do any other class get 10k+ pdef and mdef while only self buffed? didn't think so. you need to be fully buffed to pull that off with marrow as a bm tooElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
I used to think the same about HA vs AA inbalance while playing as a wiz , but after playing a bm too I realized it's just the way it should be . Melees get hit in TWs by like 1-2 squads thus they need all the survivability they can get while a ranged class usually get's like 1-4 attackers . Also besides being ranged , don't melees can't hit ya with most attacks when you jump in order to kite , while jumping as a melee while fighting is pretty much pointless unless you wanna get away from other melee classes .
Also @ Deceptipoo b:kiss : range advantage is that big in this game .It's all about LoL,yo.0 -
I think the problem is with BMs not HA.
lets see what BMs get
4 different ranged attacks - albiet somewhat shorter than casters
3 stuns - 5 if demon
altermarrow magic- I hate it
1 amp damage - ubber damage
-int gear/fists/permaspark - insane dps
15HP per vit/best refines - lots of HP; high surviveability
leaps - jump into fighting range
TE - big damage
balance - moar def
santa gave them too much. PWI should tone dps to a max of 2.5attack/sec(to equal archers) or limit bms to +5 gear. However, HA is not the problem. its stats are neccessary w/ tanking and it equalized inate caster advantages (range vs. HP/ mag deff vs. high caster damage). I can fight barbs without too much trouble; bms are harder.
sins(1vs1) is a completely different story.and bro...fyi this isn't a story.
All people are idiodic but some are more idiotic than others.0 -
You can only stay ranged for so long as BM's will just instantly run up to you using the speed buff and stun you... can't keep distance for long without holy pathFacebook.com/foxi187
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Yeah, let's nerf HA so we can all get squad wiped a little more often on big mag attack bosses. Brilliant idea. HA is built the way it is for PVE purposes first and foremost I believe. Obviously imbalance in PVP would be bad as a result, but AA characters have their advantages too. Wizzie seal + spark + spell = big ouchie for me without me ever having a chance to close the distance gap.0
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Doesn't magic attack climb a lot faster/higher than physical attack though?
Of course magic damage is higher than physical damage, but what I mean is, doesn't a wiz/psy gain more damage per magic than a BM/barb gains per STR?I
AGOREY0 -
Just have a look around urself, how many DD just refined their weapon to really high and ignore the rest, for a bm that can withstand a lot of hits from aa to get close enough to dd and kill, not only he needs to refine weapon, he needs to refine a lot other things. He spents more, he kills u, OH NO!! that is SO not fair!!
To those ppl QQ HA got way too much def and refine better, i say.. y not go HA or play a bm[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0 -
Magicgabe - Lost City wrote: »I think the problem is with BMs not HA.
lets see what BMs get
4 different ranged attacks - albiet somewhat shorter than casters
3 stuns - 5 if demon
altermarrow magic- I hate it
1 amp damage - ubber damage
-int gear/fists/permaspark - insane dps
15HP per vit/best refines - lots of HP; high surviveability
leaps - jump into fighting range
TE - big damage
balance - moar def
Lol
It wasnt long ago BM's were the lepers of PW, no one wanted them. Now everyone thinks they are OP.
And
No its not unblanced.
Bm's/HA (normally) = High Defense, Low Damage per hit ( compared to Mag classes)
Mag Classes = Low Defense, High Damage per hit0 -
Lets follow Dizzy's example and all roll Arcane BMs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
xRiney - League of Legends. TwilightSparkle / Rarity - Path of Exile closed beta. Dark_Marine - Firefall
Proud brony.0 -
And I'll be a heavy Cleric! I can't wait!
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_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I noticed that heavy armor has alot more elemental defense than the arcane armor has physical defense...
Could someone tell me why? It just seems a BM or barb can take several great cyclones but the second a cleric or mage gets whacked by an axe they die..
I think HA should be squishy against Magic as Magic users are squishy against Physical attacks.
Could someone please explain?
there are 2 phys def buffs adn 1 mag def buff
go figureGifs are hard to make work here0 -
...and you forgot your class. barbs get hp... lots of hp actually and invoke, balance and solid shield plus some ridiculous skills like true emptiness. not to mention if its demon barb... bestial onslaught and armageddon are deadly skills.
bm's get leap to jump back/forward, stuns and what not.
and lol at bramble
ever tried running with invoke/solid shield ? it gives -50% movement speed. barbs are already slow in normal form make that 50% slower and we run about 2,6 m/s. TE uses all your genie's energy.. rather use ToP then. arma consumes 50% hp+mp what makes it most effective when u got full hp+mp and it can still miss.
and balance is bm only[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I kinda agree with the OP. But in my opinion AA physical defense should be increased, insteads of HA elemental resists nerfed. After all barbs do have to tank magical bosses/mobs too, for example in FC.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by me. Seems that the forums change the quality of the picture a bit. b:sad0 -
LOL....i think the pdef is just fine, how OP would mages with demon stone barrier become with even more pdef?*Faildom*
I don't need a Squad
Level a Venomancer to 90.
Aug 12, 20090 -
ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear wrote: »Lol
It wasnt long ago BM's were the lepers of PW, no one wanted them. Now everyone thinks they are OP.
And
No its not unblanced.
Bm's/HA (normally) = High Defense, Low Damage per hit ( compared to Mag classes)
Mag Classes = Low Defense, High Damage per hit
Low damage per hit? 5 attacks/sec fist BM would like to have a word. Also, everyone is talking about how wizards have great magic and physical def and great damage at the same time. Well great. So wizards are OP but there are other classes that use arcane armor and they can't get that crazy physical defense and get 1 shot by any physical attacker that gets close to them.0 -
Quinnie - Heavens Tear wrote: »ever tried running with invoke/solid shield ? it gives -50% movement speed. barbs are already slow in normal form make that 50% slower and we run about 2,6 m/s. TE uses all your genie's energy.. rather use ToP then. arma consumes 50% hp+mp what makes it most effective when u got full hp+mp and it can still miss.
and balance is bm only
What is 50% of the usual barb running speed(with/without lvl10/11 trueform) and the usual speed of a normal mage class?0 -
Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »Low damage per hit? 5 attacks/sec fist BM would like to have a word. Also, everyone is talking about how wizards have great magic and physical def and great damage at the same time. Well great. So wizards are OP but there are other classes that use arcane armor and they can't get that crazy physical defense and get 1 shot by any physical attacker that gets close to them.
Damage/hit != Damage per second.
Fist BMs got the best DPS, but **** for DPH.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »Just have a look around urself, how many DD just refined their weapon to really high and ignore the rest, for a bm that can withstand a lot of hits from aa to get close enough to dd and kill, not only he needs to refine weapon, he needs to refine a lot other things. He spents more, he kills u, OH NO!! that is SO not fair!!
To those ppl QQ HA got way too much def and refine better, i say.. y not go HA or play a bm
No clue what game youre playing, cant be PWI O_O
Not many DDs neglect their gear actually, b/c if you have bad shards and low refines as AA or LA you get 1-2 shoot. They have to refines weapons really high AND gear to.
There was always far more Bms and barbs with below average refines on gear, since they dont really need it as much as squishy DDs.
DDs classes are in general more costly in terms of gear if you wanna be decent. Unless you wanna make a 5 attack/sec BM or something that requires a lot of money on interval stuffs.
At higher levels tho refine on gear tends to be less class specific and more about wallet really. Everyone that can afford it will refine both weapon and gear ridiculously high doesn't matter if you're a heavy armor using BM, barb or AA wizards etc
I also dont think you can say mele>caster or caster >mele
Its more about what class you play, cant really say "casters" and assume everyone with a range attack will fight a mele class under same fair conditions.
As cleric or archer its pretty much impossible to take down a barb 1v1 unless you have far better gear. Than its far easier for a high lvl wizards or veno to take out a barb 1v1 for example.0 -
That is not the point. The point was the quality of buffs. And the wizard's is simply the best quality pdef buff in the game. It makes no sense that such a buff belongs to a caster. When looking for imbalances in game design, they almost always show up at the extremes, so that's where you should look to find them._LiVe_eViL_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Didn't think of HA wizard since HA at endgame for a wizard is not what the average wizard goes for. My point is how many HA wizards are there? AA is what the majority uses at lvl 95+. The dude said its easy and I'd have to say for the big part of wizards that are arcane its not easy to surpass a HA BM.
Yes I know; that was my intent. Make the buff more useful for arcane wizards to help offset the problem being complained about in this thread. But make it less useful for the HA wizard, thus assuring that a caster is never a better physical tank than the classes meant to be physical tanks. Just because I complain about an imbalance in certain situations, don't assume that I am unsympathetic to the opposite plight in different situations.For the wizard stone barrier I'd rather leave it alone since I'm barely hitting self buffed 6.9k pdef with +5-6 refines and event gear. You know what I'd have more pdef with your formula then I have now o.o0 -
Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »Damage/hit != Damage per second.
Fist BMs got the best DPS, but **** for DPH.
Yea well who cares about DPH. It's the DPS that matters unless you 1 shot everything.0 -
Yes it does. Casters need all the defense they can get.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »It makes no sense that such a buff belongs to a caster.
More pdef != better physical tank. Sure the wizard can sit there and get swatted for a little less damage, but he/she will never keep aggro (pve) or do anything productive at all (pvp) to continue doing so.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »thus assuring that a caster is never a better physical tank than the classes meant to be physical tanks.0 -
As someone said earlier, the conversation is still about wizards. What about the other Arcane classes which don't have access to stone barrier?0
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Except for Raging Tide.Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »No clue what game youre playing, cant be PWI O_O
Not many DDs neglect their gear actually, b/c if you have bad shards and low refines as AA or LA you get 1-2 shoot. They have to refines weapons really high AND gear to.
There was always far more Bms and barbs with below average refines on gear, since they dont really need it as much as squishy DDs.
DDs classes are in general more costly in terms of gear if you wanna be decent. Unless you wanna make a 5 attack/sec BM or something that requires a lot of money on interval stuffs.
At higher levels tho refine on gear tends to be less class specific and more about wallet really. Everyone that can afford it will refine both weapon and gear ridiculously high doesn't matter if you're a heavy armor using BM, barb or AA wizards etc
I also dont think you can say mele>caster or caster >mele
Its more about what class you play, cant really say "casters" and assume everyone with a range attack will fight a mele class under same fair conditions.
As cleric or archer its pretty much impossible to take down a barb 1v1 unless you have far better gear. Than its far easier for a high lvl wizards or veno to take out a barb 1v1 for example.
+1/+2 gear as far as the eye can see, except for the cash shoppers and a very small group of non cash shoppers with good gear.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Clerics have Vanguard Spirit, Venomancers have fox form, and Psychics have White Voodoo/Psychic Will. Each caster has its own way of dealing with physical damage; I, for one, was just responding to someone who posted about wizards.Daose - Harshlands wrote: »As someone said earlier, the conversation is still about wizards. What about the other Arcane classes which don't have access to stone barrier?0
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