Will dailies be removed?

Yulk - Heavens Tear · May 2010

I'm really sick of dailies, I haven't felt like farming spirit in BH anymore for my alts, it has been weeks.

I hate bounty hunt quests with a passion. I honestly believe BH people are even worse than oracle people. It made the real PVE become obsolete.

Crazy stone can go to hell, I'm not buying exp NTY.

konariraiden · May 2010

WQ and CS I love, since it's all I usually have time for in a day, anyway.

BH...I haven't done in months...I have like, four different BH's just stacked, rotting in my Quest Guide.

MQ...I don't do MQ, because I'm not married. OHT dailies I've given up on, but I don't see any reason to get rid of 'em.

The only daily I really don't mind getting rid of (or at least returning it to its older form) is BH.

Bobobobobo - Lost City · May 2010

If you don't like doing daylies don't do it. Let the people who wants to do daylies do it.
/endthread

konariraiden · May 2010

Bobobobobo - Lost City wrote: »

If you don't like doing daylies don't do it. Let the people who wants to do daylies do it.
/endthread

Your username needs more "Bo"s to match the awesome crazy anime of the same name.

b:pleased

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear · May 2010

Bobobobobo - Lost City wrote: »

If you don't like doing daylies don't do it. Let the people who wants to do daylies do it.
/endthread

^that and i believ trolls are even worse then what you've summed up....ah oops.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · May 2010

KonariRaiden wrote: »

WQ and CS I love, since it's all I usually have time for in a day, anyway.

BH...I haven't done in months...I have like, four different BH's just stacked, rotting in my Quest Guide.

MQ...I don't do MQ, because I'm not married. OHT dailies I've given up on, but I don't see any reason to get rid of 'em.

The only daily I really don't mind getting rid of (or at least returning it to its older form) is BH.

But its an inflation of exp. b:sad

And I don't do dailies anymore, I'm going back to grinding or getting exp from farming in my own LVL FBs when I have time b:cute

AlbireoTwo - Lost City · May 2010

KonariRaiden wrote: »

Your username needs more "Bo"s to match the awesome crazy anime of the same name.

b:pleased

Nose hair animes? b:sweat

Anyways, if you don't like doing dailies, don't do them.

Alliptica - Raging Tide · May 2010

dailies is what makes this game not a grind fest. u dont have to do them. but i will
have fun grinding for 16 hours b:victory

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm really sick of dailies, I haven't felt like farming spirit in BH anymore for my alts, it has been weeks.

np,dont do them

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I hate bounty hunt quests with a passion.

you know it's a game, right?

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I honestly believe BH people are even worse than oracle people.

i honestly believe that they are better, better than the oracle babbies, better that the grinding grandpas.
because bh ppl exercise team work and learn the roll in their squad and not press <tab><f1><f2><f1> for 4200000000000000 times.
any arguments to support your views?

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It made the real PVE become obsolete.

how do you define real pve?

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Crazy stone can go to hell, I'm not buying exp NTY.

np again

Yulk - Heavens Tear · May 2010

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

np,dont do them
DW, I'm not

you know it's a game, right?
Yup

i honestly believe that they are better, better than the oracle babbies, better that the grinding grandpas.
because bh ppl exercise team work and learn the roll in their squad and not press <tab><f1><f2><f1> for 4200000000000000 times.
any arguments to support your views?
I grind, and get exp in FBs squadding with people my LVL, higher chance of getting molds too, try going to "BH" around your level

how do you define real pve?

np again

replies, and I'm off, later b:bye

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · May 2010

RoAr

ugh...

Borsuc - Raging Tide · May 2010

Alliptica - Raging Tide wrote: »

dailies is what makes this game not a grind fest

Absolutely agree, if anything I want MORE dailies and CASH dailies (i.e coin rewards).

Grinding should NOT be required in any game that's properly developed. What's with all the people who think that grinding is a FEATURE instead of something one has to avoid? (unless, of course, it's freaking needed!) What the hell?

Don't get me wrong, time-wise the dailies can take just as long as grinding and be worth same or more. The thing is, grinding is just boring, no challenge at all...

Michael_Dark - Lost City · May 2010

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i honestly believe that they are better, better than the oracle babbies, better that the grinding grandpas.
because bh ppl exercise team work and learn the roll in their squad and not press <tab><f1><f2><f1> for 4200000000000000 times.
any arguments to support your views?

I somewhat disagree. BH teaches you how to run a BH instance, over and over... It's not really all that difficult when your full squad is all 15-20 levels higher than the instance and you get a +10 bless box. You usually wine it to get rid of most of the mobs and then you find a route to maximize your wine fee. It's a game of follow the leader, kill a not so difficult boss (with perhaps exception to Polearm in FB69) and then port away to port back in to kill the next one.

People used to level slower, they used to help in FBs and when they reached a level of comfort and familiarity with their class they would be thrown into running HH and start learning their role in squad after learning all their skills and instinctively knowing which ones are most appropriate at what times.

Throw a BH nub into a party and tell him to run a proper FB, or take them into any of their level-correct instances and they're usually lost and don't know what to do. They do some of the most amazingly stupid things... so on one hand it is good entertainment. They tend to die a lot as well.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · May 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

People used to level slower, they used to help in FBs and when they reached a level of comfort and familiarity with their class they would be thrown into running HH and start learning their role in squad after learning all their skills and instinctively knowing which ones are most appropriate at what times.

HH/TT is not for leveling, so not a good comparison. If people want exp, they won't do TT runs.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Throw a BH nub into a party and tell him to run a proper FB, or take them into any of their level-correct instances and they're usually lost and don't know what to do.

What do you expect from him? To know the dungeon?

There's a difference between a "noob" and a "newb". There's nothing wrong with the latter.
Or maybe you were so pro back when you did your first fb19 and made no mistake at all. b:chuckle

ManeK - Harshlands · May 2010

haha Borsuc i understood what Michael_dark said, but hey nice to see some opposing viewpoints on a forum for once... LOL

Rillien - Heavens Tear · May 2010

The good thing about grinding is that is slowed down your leveling enough to be able to get more cash.

The dailies back in the day had significant tradeoffs-- for CS you were trading in money for exp [a large amount at high levels]/ For WQ, before there was autopathing, you were trading a lot of time having to fly your character, for exp. This prevented the two from being abused.

OHT is an awesome daily. Not too much exp, some coin and some mats as a reward. You probably haven't gotten there yet. MQ and BH are the major exp gains for relatively little time, and those are the problem areas.

I don't see why you're complaining about all dailies across the board. But then again, it seems like you either a] don't think about the consequences of your suggestions or b] just want to troll us all.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · May 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

HH/TT is not for leveling, so not a good comparison. If people want exp, they won't do TT runs.

It has nothing to do with exp or mats, it has to do with learning how to properly function in a squad. If you've done the whole progression of runs, you'll see that they start simple and get more advanced, obviously.

What do you expect from him? To know the dungeon?

There's a difference between a "noob" and a "newb". There's nothing wrong with the latter.
Or maybe you were so pro back when you did your first fb19 and made no mistake at all. b:chuckle

Seeing a lvl 100 BM continuously try to stun mobs that can't be stunned... aggroing mobs by getting too close to them not knowing he was getting to close... 10x archers who don't have STA max'd and consistently use metal attacks on robes and physical attacks on heavies... lvl 100 barbs who obvously don't know when to turtle at the right time, don't use roar or bleed or debuff when they're supposed to... or that don't even have their hp buff maxed. Seeing sins go all out on a boss right as soon as the tank is taking aggro and dying over and over... I can go on an on about the fail I see all these nub users pull.

But hey, they're PRO at bh. b:chuckle

Longknife - Harshlands · May 2010

I honestly cannot BELIEVE you people are arguing against free EXP. This is like if I were to come up to you and say "here's five dollars. You'll get another 5 tomorrow, ok?"

And what's your answer?

"NO! That's too easy! I want to work and suffer for my profits!" It's one thing to not like taking charity, it's something completely different to have the easy life staring you right in the freaking face and you're denying it for.....why are you denying it again?

And this brings me to my next point:

I've heard plenty of people call BH bad, usually with very weak arguments to back it up. Well, let's flip it around for a moment:

Why would removing BH's be good? What profit or bonus could this possibly provide the public if they were to do so? Jesus would decide to cure cancer forever because Perfect World removed BH's? The economy of Perfect World would enter a never-ending boom? Barbarians would gain the ability to **** lollipops and Assassins would decide they'd rather talk their problems out instead of being such jerks?

Seriously now, there's not a single damn argument for it. The only argument that's ever been said is that leveling is "too easy." Now call me crazy....but as I recall, grinding was never fun. Grinding was something you were supposed to do if you wanted to level, but didn't want to. Grinding is what causes some people lose their jobs and friends over MMO's like this; because they're required to take so much time out of their day if they don't want to fall behind. Grinding is what prevents thousands of people from even playing MMO's; because they simply DON'T have the time to deal with it. Hell, grinding is what turns an MMO into work itself. First you play to become more powerful and get new skills. That's fun and interesting, but eventually the jumps and power slow down quite a bit. You end up doing the same monotonous **** over and over and over just to get another nice power jump in three months time. The irony of this is that many people play games to escape the monotonous **** they call their job.
And last I checked, those who grinded have NEVER received respect or recognition. The ones who receive respect and recognition are those who PVP well. Those who are good at PVE are mocked and called no-lifers; they're the ones who have the free-time that the rest of us only dream of having. I have NEVER heard of someone hitting a high level in an MMO and getting recognition. Only if it's been done in record time, and even then the compliments are accompanied by ridicule and insults.

So why? WHY on earth would you turn down free EXP? Why on Earth are you saying "Nope, I'm not satisfied with only have to take 2 hours out of my day to get a fair amount of EXP. I want it to be stressful and redundant. I wanna spend 20 hours out of my weekend just trying to get 60%."

Swear to god man, just don't do the damn quest then. Don't force the rest of us who don't have that kind of time to quit.

Rillien - Heavens Tear · May 2010

I'll only make one suggestion in reply:

Grinding gives more money than BHs.

Many people use BH to level and find themselves out of cash.

That is the main problem. Beyond that, I'd love to have friends around to PK/chat with/kill world bosses with/farm with/ do anything besides BHs, but they are mostly using their playtime to do BHs. When the game becomes "I will do BHs to level up fast and then enjoy", it's kinda not fun anymore either, right?

Olba - Sanctuary · May 2010

Really now.

The usual Asian formula, grinding like a machine, doesn't work in the West. That's when they came up with some wonderful ideas:
"Hey, let's give them these quests that give tons and tons of experience so that they won't have to do so many of them!"
"Hey, let's give them these books that give quests that require them to kill only one mob and make it give a ton of experience so that they won't have to do many of them!"
"Hey, let's boost the experience gain from just plain old killing, because it's not ridiculous enough yet!"
"Hey, let's make all of that in the Boutique! It'll be a huge success! We'll be epicly rich! And they'll be happy! EVERYONE WINS!... Except we win more."

Michael_Dark - Lost City · May 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I honestly cannot BELIEVE you people are arguing against free EXP. This is like if I were to come up to you and say "here's five dollars. You'll get another 5 tomorrow, ok?"

And what's your answer?

"NO! That's too easy! I want to work and suffer for my profits!" It's one thing to not like taking charity, it's something completely different to have the easy life staring you right in the freaking face and you're denying it for.....why are you denying it again?

And this brings me to my next point:

I've heard plenty of people call BH bad, usually with very weak arguments to back it up. Well, let's flip it around for a moment:

Why would removing BH's be good? What profit or bonus could this possibly provide the public if they were to do so? Jesus would decide to cure cancer forever because Perfect World removed BH's? The economy of Perfect World would enter a never-ending boom? Barbarians would gain the ability to **** lollipops and Assassins would decide they'd rather talk their problems out instead of being such jerks?

Seriously now, there's not a single damn argument for it. The only argument that's ever been said is that leveling is "too easy." Now call me crazy....but as I recall, grinding was never fun. Grinding was something you were supposed to do if you wanted to level, but didn't want to. Grinding is what causes some people lose their jobs and friends over MMO's like this; because they're required to take so much time out of their day if they don't want to fall behind. Grinding is what prevents thousands of people from even playing MMO's; because they simply DON'T have the time to deal with it. Hell, grinding is what turns an MMO into work itself. First you play to become more powerful and get new skills. That's fun and interesting, but eventually the jumps and power slow down quite a bit. You end up doing the same monotonous **** over and over and over just to get another nice power jump in three months time. The irony of this is that many people play games to escape the monotonous **** they call their job.
And last I checked, those who grinded have NEVER received respect or recognition. The ones who receive respect and recognition are those who PVP well. Those who are good at PVE are mocked and called no-lifers; they're the ones who have the free-time that the rest of us only dream of having. I have NEVER heard of someone hitting a high level in an MMO and getting recognition. Only if it's been done in record time, and even then the compliments are accompanied by ridicule and insults.

So why? WHY on earth would you turn down free EXP? Why on Earth are you saying "Nope, I'm not satisfied with only have to take 2 hours out of my day to get a fair amount of EXP. I want it to be stressful and redundant. I wanna spend 20 hours out of my weekend just trying to get 60%."

Swear to god man, just don't do the damn quest then. Don't force the rest of us who don't have that kind of time to quit.

I agree, everyone should start at lvl 105, have any gear they want without working hard for it, and then they can.....

Sakuba - Harshlands · May 2010

Dude....why do you complain about it at all?
If you can't stand them just don't do them...don't QQ over it lol.
Kinda lame you know.
Btw on higher level you do BH,CS,MQ and WQ on a level and still have PLENTY of Exp you can grind on...srsly don't see your problem;)

Or wait...get 100+, go on do BHs cause u don't get Exp, grind then and start making a thread QQing that you can't rlly level anymore and want a 100+ dailyb:chuckle

/Nuff said.

Longknife - Harshlands · May 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I agree, everyone should start at lvl 105, have any gear they want without working hard for it, and then they can.....

Which is a ridiculous hyperbolization of how things actually are. It still takes months to get to 105 unless you're freaking insane and have all the EXP stones in the world and getting the best TT gear itself requires time too.

And furthermore, hell, why not? Look at Counter Strike. Sure that's a shooter and a different genre, but there everyone is on equal ground and they simply PVP. Those that can't aim and lack skill die and those that have skill live. And guess what? It's popular as hell!

And to address the only argument that repeatedly comes up is that "I don't wanna play with idiots who dunno how to play their class." Oh, really? So suddenly everyone is required to play exactly how you want them too or they should quit? Do you want everyone to cluelessly sell things to you at outrageously low prices, too? Do you want your enemies to make massive mistakes?

A simple analogy for how ridiculous this argument against Dailys is:

Let's think of a school. Like any school, it has regular classes, and the special ed classes for those who are slower than the normal students. Let's say the amount of time you have to put into PW is equal to your intelligence in the school. The more time you can put in, the more intelligent you are. This makes those who can grind to 105 without dailies are the honor roll students, and those who don't have that kind of time and are, to an extent, reliant on dailies are special ED students.
The argument about dailys making people stupid and clueless about their class is basically like trying to do away with the special ed classes in school. You're of the opinion that these classes aim too low and make the students stupid, and EVERYONE should aim high. However, everyone and their friggin' mother knows that these students would NEVER be able to keep up in the normal classes. They simply lack the mental capacity to do so. In Perfect World terms, these people simply lack the time and would NEVER be able to keep up with the grind.

So basically what that argument is saying is, everyone who does BH's should just quit?

And why? "Because I dun waaaaaanna~ have to party with bad players. b:cry"

Get the F*** over yourselves. That's ridiculous.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · May 2010

Longknife: amen to that. b:thanks

Vorhs - Lost City · May 2010

My suggestions about EXP inflation are:

- Remove third BH (only BH I and BH II)
- Remove oracles
- Set Hyper Exp Stones usable ONLY for lvl80+ PPL

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · May 2010

There's no need to remove BH, they just need to drastically reduce the exp gained from them - or put into place an auto system that fails the quest for anyone who steps into the instance with someone else in party who is above the range of the BH.

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear · May 2010

I don't think that BH should be removed, and that's because it's the only daily quest I do. If it was gone one day, I'd simply stop leveling, because for one, I won't waste my free time just on flying around from one NPC to another doing WQ, it's just a boring waste of time. I also never do CS, because it takes too much money to buy the stones. At level 50, it's ok, but on higher levels it gets too expensive, and I can't grind back the money I've lost in one day (grinding is now the only thing I get my money from, used to do farming but that doesn't pay off anymore). I am not married either, so no MQ for me, too low level to complete Cube of Fate in my opinion, I've tried and it also costs too much + I've never made it to the end. So BH is the only daily quest that doesn't seem like a waste of money + time to me. Wines cost a lot tho, so I have to grind for hours later. I don't get where all the people get their money from to do both CS and wined BH every day...

But I think most of the other dailies should be removed and replaced with quests. Seriously, it's boring to do the same stuff all over again every day, and after level 80, that's the only thing you get. I' leaving soon because I'm bored with it, and for some other reasons. More regular quests and less dailies and oracles would make the game fun to play at high levels too, right now it's like a job you have to do every day but never get paid for it. But that's my opinion, maybe other people like it, tho I don't see why they should.

RawDawg - Heavens Tear · May 2010

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i honestly believe that they are better, better than the oracle babbies, better that the grinding grandpas.
because bh ppl exercise team work and learn the roll in their squad and not press <tab><f1><f2><f1> for 4200000000000000 times.
any arguments to support your views?

Actually, seeing as how most of those squads refuse to do an unwined run, no, they do not use teamwork and learn their role in a squad. BHs would be the best thing to happen to this game if they were un-wine-able. Then what you say would be true.

Longknife - Harshlands · May 2010

RawDawg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, seeing as how most of those squads refuse to do an unwined run, no, they do not use teamwork and learn their role in a squad. BHs would be the best thing to happen to this game if they were un-wine-able. Then what you say would be true.

As far as I know, BH69 is the only one where absolutely nobody does it unwined. Nobody does BH29-BH51 wined, very few do BH59 wined and, as far as I know, BH79+ is a mix of wined and unwined.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · May 2010

I've done bh69 unwined a few days ago, or actually just pyro. (bh59 pyro chain actually). Figured, heck, wine it just for 1 boss?

What a freaking time waste.

No, it wasn't necessarily challenging. Yes it was a nightmare, and I'm not going to do it again anytime soon. Why? It took close to 2 freaking hours. I would make more money grinding to cover the wine costs AND get some few profit in the time saved.

A bit more challenging, yes (especially considering the squad was pre lvl75 mostly), but nothing hardcore.

For all the hard-core grinders out there, read this carefully: Time waste does NOT equal challenge.

Is that a hard sentence to grasp?

Extreeme - Lost City · May 2010

Just want BHs removed everything else is good. MORE GRINDING!

Will dailies be removed?

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