Assassins broke TW?

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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »
    well the AOE has to to hit before it pulls them out of stealth...and im pretty good at staying away from everything that can be AOEed. so.......yeah

    yea yea... all the tw nubs think they are the best thing since sliced bread until they actually step foot in tw. and don't worry the above statement doesn't just apply to you.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Magical_Orgy - Lost City wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXHGLuj8tlQ

    GG. Now pull that off against a faction with 80 people instead of 10 and I'll give you props.

    I mean seriously what was the point of that vid? You pranced around in an empty lane (lol), with no barb buff (lol) nearly died to advanced towers (moar lol) and got in through a gate that had no towers (yet even moar lulz).
    I mean I pulled cats for **** and giggles and pew pewed people at the same time in joke TWs like that one. Don't see me posting **** videos of it and pretending I'm a better cat puller than a barb.
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »
    well the AOE has to to hit before it pulls them out of stealth...and im pretty good at staying away from everything that can be AOEed. so.......yeah

    There's this thing called towers, or turrets whatever you like to call them. They like to hit people. Oh and did you know the catapult itself can be targeted and zhenned the hell out of?

    I need something stronger than a tactical facepalm. Someone go come up with something b:surrender

    What's next? Wizzies roleplaying clerics and sutrahealing cata barbs? I mean cata sins. Forgot the barbs will be busy killing blademasters.
    b:dirty
  • /Groovy/ - Harshlands
    /Groovy/ - Harshlands Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What's next? Wizzies roleplaying clerics and sutrahealing cata barbs? I mean cata sins. Forgot the barbs will be busy killing blademasters.

    Good one, made me laugh in real life b:chuckle
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  • T_IGE_R - Lost City
    T_IGE_R - Lost City Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Sins did not ruin TW.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

    I need something stronger than a tactical facepalm. Someone go come up with something b:surrender

    would this work?
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • FitHitDShan - Sanctuary
    FitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    This has been a fascinating discussion of the limits of certain AOEs.

    Thinking of this as a TW tactic, though, I'm failing to see any appeal. Unless I'm not understanding the bigger picture, you still need to have someone tanking the towers. They have to stay alive or the cat-pulling sin gets targetted by the tower and dies quickly. So, what is the strategic advantage of having that person not also be the cat puller? Is it that the cat got through the enemy "line" easier? No - tower tank still has to get through the line first. In fact, now they have some wasted time tanking while the sin is navigating over the wall without losing the cat. Maybe the idea is that multiple tower tanks could protect the cat, but this seems more randomm and prone to failure than the old trick of having a backup cat puller ready to pick up a dropped cat. Nope. I can't see a single strategic advantage to this tactic. What am I missing that makes you think TW is broken if it works?

    And, finally, I have to ask because I have not done TW in a month or so. Did the merchant inside the instance stop selling the awareness pots? Assuming there was some point to this strategy, it sure would be a shame if the counter was to go all the way over to the spawn point and buy a pot.
    "?" IS my avatar.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    I mean I pulled cats for **** and giggles and pew pewed people at the same time in joke TWs like that one. Don't see me posting **** videos of it and pretending I'm a better cat puller than a barb.
    b:cute Yes plz ninho b:dirty
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Favu - Heavens Tear
    Favu - Heavens Tear Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Uh.

    This makes me want to roll an assassin so **** bad.

    Even though I absolutely HATE them in PvP.

    The video made me lol. An entire faction full of noobs chasing around a lone cata. Wow.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    heaven's tear ~ 100 cleric / 97 veno / 91 barb ~ soy lider de la faccion venganza
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Despite all the bashing in this thread I think the argument has merit and that towers can be safely circumvented by a sin puller.

    On the right path there are no path towers and only 2 gate towers. Some combination of apothecary + genie + force stealth should allow you to pass through and restealth on the other side completely without risk.

    As a quick check tower range is 35m so to cross the diameter of 70m at a catapults speed of 6m/s requires a bit less than 12seconds of invulnerability. The puller can of course be well ahead of the catapult so they may get by in much less time.

    Now that you are inside there is actually a small well-known deadzone inside the gate where a catapult can attack the HQ outside of the range of the 4 base towers.

    If a high level assassin puller flies above the catapult at this point what knocks them out of stealth? What else is there to target besides the catapult?

    To say that an AOE that targets the catapult will knock them out of stealth requires2 figures:

    1) the maximum height you can hold a catapult from
    2) the vertical height an aoe's damage extends

    Any AOE argument without these two figures is incomplete. If 1) is greater than 2) I don't see any way to knock a high level sin out of stealth without awareness pots. I actually think 1 may be high since barbs can be very far from catas without losing them..

    Now the availability of awareness pots is dependent on how effective the guild who holds the officer can control the supply. Some guilds may be better at this than others.
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  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Now that you are inside there is actually a small well-known deadzone inside the gate where a catapult can attack the HQ outside of the range of the 4 base towers.

    A year of cat healing with you covering my secksi **** and I didn't know about this. Trust me when I say a lot of our barbs don't either xD
    -_________________________________________________-

    To say that an AOE that targets the catapult will knock them out of stealth requires2 figures:

    1) the maximum height you can hold a catapult from
    2) the vertical height an aoe's damage extends

    Any AOE argument without these two figures is incomplete. If 1) is greater than 2) I don't see any way to knock a high level sin out of stealth without awareness pots.

    A catapult catches up to you soon as you stop moving. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't barrage hit just about anything in its path regardless of the the altitude? If so, not only would it knock a sin out of stealth, it would drop one in mere seconds.
    b:dirty
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A year of cat healing with you covering my secksi **** and I didn't know about this. Trust me when I say a lot of our barbs don't either xD
    -_________________________________________________-


    There was a thread about the spot..
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=579352

    you can see it used here at 2:48
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXRCp0sVHNI

    A catapult catches up to you soon as you stop moving.
    A catapult can't fly (unless under the HQ lol) so it positions itself on the ground some distance beneath a stationary flying puller.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't barrage hit just about anything in its path regardless of the the altitude? If so, not only would it knock a sin out of stealth, it would drop one in mere seconds.

    You never really barrage stuff in the air.. In general flying targets in both pvp and pve are spaced too far apart to make barrage effective. The only time I've gotten a feel for the vertical range of barrage is in delta stage 8 with the flying mobs... I think it might be 6 meters? Not sure...

    Do you have a feel for how far above you someone can fly and still be in BB?

    In any case even if the vertical range equalled the full 12meters (maximum aoe range of any skill in the game) there is an open question if it is possible to fly higher than that above the catapult without losing it.
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  • Nukesrus - Harshlands
    Nukesrus - Harshlands Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    I am an idiot and I owe KD an apology. lol


    but I'm with Asterelle on this one. Within days of realizing how bad stealth was OP at higher levels, I made a thread like this in General Discussion. By flying just over AoE range and in the tower dead spot, I'm pretty sure that makes an invincible cata. It's just a matter of positioning with very little margin for error.
  • /Groovy/ - Harshlands
    /Groovy/ - Harshlands Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Mayhem is dominating faction? o.O
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  • Nukesrus - Harshlands
    Nukesrus - Harshlands Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    /Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »
    Mayhem is dominating faction? o.O

    O_o That was mayhem? dammit, my bad. I thought that was KD. That's what I get for watching in low quality. :(


    I'll edit my post.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    Looks like getting past the towers is much easier than I thought:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2kZ94PZAeY

    It seems you can be very far away and high up without losing the cat.
    If people exploit this with cloak it means detection pots will be required for all TW factions.
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  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    then i could actually add killing a cata puller to my list of tw accomplishments.

    dont you mean one shot a cata puller?
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  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    I lol'd at the people in this thread who kept saying "but the cata will come over the sin when he stops moving", like really they didn't figure out a sin can fly above the catapult and that was the WHOLE point about the "AOEs don't reach up high"? b:laugh
  • PinkSuccubuS - Lost City
    PinkSuccubuS - Lost City Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    then its not hard 2 put a wiz over the cata and aoe or wait they dont need a target 2 do that do they b:laugh
  • PinkSuccubuS - Lost City
    PinkSuccubuS - Lost City Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    sin fail moreee we dont need u so get lost b:laugh
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    PinkSuccubuS - Lost City wrote: »
    then its not hard 2 put a wiz over the cata and aoe or wait they dont need a target 2 do that do they b:laugh
    ???

    I have no idea what you actually meant, but if I am guessing right, are you saying we can target our AOEs without, you know, a target enemy character?

    No we can't.

    Even Dragon's Breath needs a target for some reason.

    You maybe could duel (does it work in TW?) someone who stays in the air, and the wizard attacks HIM with an AOE. But do duels even work in TW?
  • Xprestigex - Harshlands
    Xprestigex - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    PinkSuccubuS - Lost City wrote: »
    then its not hard 2 put a wiz over the cata and aoe or wait they dont need a target 2 do that do they b:laugh

    We still need a target for our aoe, and i don't think u can duel in tw, i never tried but i know u can't cuddle in it, so im guessing u can't duel.

    u might be able to fly above the cata, and then cast dragons breath (DB) at max range from above the cata, then the db might be able to hit the sin. And before people were saying archers aoe hits up pretty high (idk if its high enough). Right now though i don't see any real tw factions in my server having a sin pull a cata in a real tw.

    And if towers are still up they will hit the invisable sin, towers don't care about invsiablity.
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