Dex vs Vit/Str

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Wreck - Harshlands
Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
edited April 2010 in Barbarian
On just stats alone a lvl 101 barb with 200 dex has 1600 accuracy, not bad for a melee character. Add 2 50% accuracy rings, Like the Frost rings, and you're up to 3200. Considering most archers have ~4000 evasion this is a nice amount of accuracy to work with for PvP.

Dex required for HH99 gold armor and Nirvana axes is 54. This gives you 432 accuracy. Add 50% accuracy rings and you're up to 864 if you add Blood Bath as well you're up to 1944. While this looks unimpressive, consider sage Bestial Onslaught; 50% evasion reduction to go with the ability 'Never misses'. This puts even a demon archer down to about 2000 evasion.

My question is, aside from the obvious 10% crit boost, why bother with dex builds at all? If your heart is set on demon you get a 35% crit boost from Onslaught, 10% from Strength of the Titans or even Sunder, which makes every attack after it crit. If you want to go sage there's no good reason to think your PvP days are over and your only job will be to chill behind a cata, barbs can easily deal massive damage especially as sage. The idea that sage barbs are for catas only is a preformed idea, that bad players from the other versions brought, which people who don't test theories follow to the letter.

I'd like to see people discuss this idea here, no flaming preferably. I don't expect you to believe me, just to consider what I said before making assumptions.
Post edited by Wreck - Harshlands on

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  • Oscars_SOUL - Lost City
    Oscars_SOUL - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    me barb is going 2 we 200 dex at lv100 cos i like it i never did fallow a sticky just looking around build and own experience.

    dex is cos i hate 2 miss lol i aint saying tank build is bad just not my thing
  • Brutu - Heavens Tear
    Brutu - Heavens Tear Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    The reasoning is with demon that 10% more crit rate+crit gear+that beastial onslaught=50%+crit rate.

    But that is just the crit rate, the reason barbs go mostly dex is because up until level 77 a tank build barb will struggle to get above 1k accuracy even with bloodbath, which means if your fighting an assassin or archer or even a fist bm you will see alot of misses and really only hit reliably with mighty swing. So until this a dex build completely outshines a vit build until level 77.

    I believe it is simply a matter of barbs getting frustrated with a really crappy hit rate and just want to hit more often, but I could be wrong.
  • Wreck - Harshlands
    Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    The thing I find funny is that a sage barb with 54 dex who uses onslaught will hit as often as a blade master with 200 dex, so if you go str build you end up, if you get +10 Nirvana, at about 16k P Attack, which is higher than any archer. That being said recast the Nirvana for Berserk, or Sacrificial strike as it's now called, and that procs at a 25% rate, so you'll hit harder than an archer with a really nice chance for double damage (Like a crit).

    This just seems like logic to me, I do, though, understand the cripplingly low accuracy as a low level barb being an issue. That, however, changes around entirely after 77, since skills take effect after gear, and you start hitting just as well as every other class type. Also, I'd like to point out that Blood Bath is a veeeery under rated skill. I never see any other barbs using it, but it gives me the ability to easily drop an archer of equal and, more often than not, higher level.
  • XylolyX - Heavens Tear
    XylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    Sage barb with 66 dex here + 2 misties and never using blood bath. Accuracy is close to 1400.

    I followed a 6str, 3vit, 1 dex every two levels build. Now I will be building with a 4 vit, 1 dex build. I'd like my accuracy to be above 1500.

    The only dex barbs I've seen in squads were ill-equipped and low hp. Low as in my humanoid HP was around the same as their tiger hp. I never did any TTs or FFs with them however, and generally speaking I will not. There's very few other barbs that I trust to tank when I'm on my archer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Lvl10XBarb
    Lvl10XArcher
    lvl10XAssassin
  • Wreck - Harshlands
    Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    I don't understand why people hate Blood Bath, as sage it's 10% HP: 10% of 22k full buffed is 2.2k, so you still have 19800hp. Kinda negligible when you're trying to kill something in my opinion, especially since it's +225% accuracy. I suppose vs a full magic char it's useless, but other than that, that's pretty good IMO.

    Even as hell it's still 225% accuracy, -15% hp though. A dex barb as hell would have like 10-11k with decent gear, so 15% of that is 1.5k so you'd still have 9.5k to work with. Though as a hell dex barb you don't really need accuracy.
  • KingTank - Heavens Tear
    KingTank - Heavens Tear Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    bloodbath+beastial onslaught, you will never miss. Unless you cash shop like hell then you can really put 200 stats into dex or else your just gonna be a fail barb with awful HP **** tank + crappy in PKing aswell as you will just get 2 shotted
  • SteelStar - Heavens Tear
    SteelStar - Heavens Tear Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    Personally evening being demon I don't see the point in it, a Barb is good for 2 things. Armageddon and Tanking. If you want a non stop insane crit rates and massive damage you should just roll a bm. I have 49 dex white 60 dex green I rarley miss even in pvp. Without blood bath I have just over 1k accuracy and with demon blood bath (I know demon is more than sage) I have around 3200. I personally don't see the point in having 200 dex on any barb no matter the level or path. Facts have proven over and over again a fist bm is and always will be more powerful than a fist barb and honestly whats the point of a fist barb? Too lazy to re roll? Now that being said though, I guess.... Its your char play it how you want. As long as the person playing the barb with extremely different stats is having fun with it then its all that really matter, but still I personally don't see the point if you actually play your role. (I tried it, had 220 dex and 300 str around 11/15k hp... was cool at first but all you can do is crit and auto attack you have about the same HP is a well geared bm and no skills...)


    Okay so I went on a bit about fist barbs and I know that isn't the topic, but for the most part a barb with over 100 dex is usually trying to use fists and axes.

    If you and get your accuracy to around 1400 you'll never have a problem in pve and all you need for pvp is onslaught and maybe bloodbath.
    It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
    My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
    VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    DEX on a barb isn't fail, but its best not to go overboard with it. Just 4 more DEX than your own level is enough

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b51b669853109b5b <-- and this is without accuracy% bonus b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

    VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
    HA > LA > AR... GG

    HA + VIT = win b:bye
  • KingTank - Heavens Tear
    KingTank - Heavens Tear Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    10k HP at lvl 99 isnt fail? lol
  • Wreck - Harshlands
    Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    54 dex with two 50% acc rings (Sign of Frost: Chaos are amazing) is enough to never miss on anything.

    You'll have 2.1k acc with blood bath; archers cap out at 4k evasion but once you throw Onslaught on them that gets chumped down to 2k, so I mean crit is nice, but the bonuses you get from demon skills makes it superfluous; just my opinion.

    For demon barbs: 21k hp - 15% = ~18k hp
    For sage barbs: 21k hp - 10% = ~19k hp

    I still say blood bath is amazing for PvP, unless you're a cata puller.
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    KingTank - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    10k HP at lvl 99 isnt fail? lol

    Dude, it is just unrefined, empty socket TT99 gears b:chuckle. My barb can get almost at that much HP at 60+. Off topic much?

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=064e826d2481584b <--- I can get near that much HP at 66 b:chuckle. I am stating that the accuracy demon barbs can get.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

    VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
    HA > LA > AR... GG

    HA + VIT = win b:bye
  • KingTank - Heavens Tear
    KingTank - Heavens Tear Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Dude, it is just unrefined, empty socket TT99 gears b:chuckle. My barb can get almost at that much HP at 60+. Off topic much?

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=064e826d2481584b <--- I can get near that much HP at 66 b:chuckle. I am stating that the accuracy demon barbs can get.


    i know its not refined or sharded, i am saying most barbs who don't cash shop will only have +3 or +4 refined gear and mostly use flawless citrines

    may have max of 13k hp and i highly doubt a non CS will have a 600m tome lol
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=116c6f798f5b5118
  • Korsov - Heavens Tear
    Korsov - Heavens Tear Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    If you're a 99 barb with 12k hp, I have a feeling you're not gonna live long enough to use that 6k accuracy much...

    Oh, and if that is your real gear Yulk, what in the world are you doing socketing Immacs in lvl 60 stuff?
  • Ulfhednar - Heavens Tear
    Ulfhednar - Heavens Tear Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    o.o should be at 103 dex WITH gear not base b:chuckle


    200 dex for a barb is epic fail unless you have at least 10 stones of savant.



    sacrificing some vit for dex is ok but you need to be careful its easy to take too much, i am border line im a sage barb with 15% crit :D

    i wont discuss my build though you may figure it out if you wish <,<
    [SIGPIC]http://a.imageshack.us/img340/6446/radbarbsig.png[/SIGPIC]
  • KingTank - Heavens Tear
    KingTank - Heavens Tear Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited April 2010
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    i have 64 dex and have 10% crit. if i get all TT99 gear (which i won't) another Lunar ring and TT99 gold it would give me about 18%

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