Tips for making money without $?

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · April 2010

Hey guys! I kinda struggle to get alot of money... Grinding isnt paying off anymore, and killing fish all day is boring as hell.
I dont have time to do instances like TT or Frost, only a few hours a day. I noticed that farming mats in hell/heaven can sell quite good, but its not the fastest way to make money. Also, the herbs from hell/heaven don't sell at all, only the mats, so its not a fast way.

I know buy low/sell high is the best way, but somehow I just arent good in that. Anyone can give me tips on this? I just can't find anyone anymore selling anything low.

Thanks in advance!

Celia.

Yurisuri - Sanctuary · April 2010

Well there is making and selling wines or the mats to make them. Selling ult. subs or well grinding in general is the way. Also Oht mats or other dungeon mats like that could make you coins as well.

wtfbbqhaxor · April 2010

Charge Zen... nuff said b:bye

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · April 2010

wtfbbqhaxor wrote: »

Charge Zen... nuff said b:bye

xD read the titel.. 'Without $'...

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

There just aren't any good money making strategies left for casual players at higher levels. Reasons:

1) TT isn't as nice as it used to be, most mats are worthless now.
2) RB is nice, but takes a lot of time and the costs are also pretty high (charms etc.).
3) Grinding doesn't pay off at higher levels (80+).
4) Sell high buy low is nice, but needs a lot of starting money and you need to keep your computer on a lot.
5) Material farming sucks, since ultimate subs are so cheap. High mats are down in price too. Special mats (in heaven/hell) are also pretty worthless.
6) The thing I suggest you do is herb farming in heaven/hell. Those are worth quite a bit.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · April 2010

thanks, though it seems that the mats in hell/heaven are easier sellable than the herbs from there.. Maybe I havent tried enough, but those seem to sell hard.

Plicid - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Find a SugarDaddy

Pervera - Lost City · April 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

There just aren't any good money making strategies left for casual players at higher levels. Reasons:

1) TT isn't as nice as it used to be, most mats are worthless now.

I used to merchant TT mats before nad made up silly and quick money. Now 2x + Soul Relics made it like worthless. To make 4 souledges ppl had to craft 4x whole chain of TT weapons, now they can buy them in a bundle for 10M. xD

Wolferinex - Lost City · April 2010

Hmm...

I know Im new, but I know some thing that can help.

First, making money in PWI is hard, (Example: You have 5 MILL, skill cost 1 MILL, and you have 50 SKILLS to max. So you left with NONE from which you orignally had, and still have 45 SKILLS to max.) Get it? If not read below.

DQs are a good source to make money, but they aren't dropping 1 per mob so next option.

TT and other mat instances are good, but requires alot of time. If you're higher lvl you could face a boss that would give you something which would sell for 8 mill etc.

Farming = Get a highspeed mount, go around and farm. Its so boring to do though.

So in total
lvl up higher = more money for you.

AlbireoTwo - Lost City · April 2010

Merhchanting.............

Hmm..............

Try grinding a bit of money, then making things out of tokens and selling them.

Himawary - Sanctuary · April 2010

I make money while I quest , I can do like 300k a day and I can do my cs and bhs Also if my quest is in an area with mats I get them and after I sell them to cats in Arch
U can try making wines for bhs and ask ppl money so u would do like free bh and get coins
Try to farm all the mats u need for armor/ wep its better than to buy

GLb:bye

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide · April 2010

Wolferinex - Lost City wrote: »

So in total
lvl up higher = more money for you.

Quite the opposite. You make most money in the 50s, from there it goes downhill.
So, keep a Veno for Grinding at 55, put XP into genies.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Quite the opposite. You make most money in the 50s, from there it goes downhill.
So, keep a Veno for Grinding at 55, put XP into genies.

That's not true at all. I easily make more money now that at my 50s.

The difference is that the expenses are scaled MUCH higher. While the increase in "grinding money" is modest, the skill costs and other expenses SKYROCKETED in comparison to lvl50s.

However that doesn't mean you make less money. If you are not concerned about leveling up and improving your skills, by all means just grind all day and you'll make more money than an equivalent lvl50 character doing just that (grinding only).

Also to the OP, have you tried AOE grinding? Get a grinding genie with expel, max Dragon's Breath, you might be able to do it at your lvl, though of course I'm not sure. (any higher levels please share your thoughts?

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Dragon Quest item drops, thye sell for quite alot b:bye

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide · April 2010

Not true, Borsuc.
Killing lev 90 mobs yield the same coin as killing 40 mobs even at lev 81. Yet, DQ drops in the 50s are at their peak.

Coin and drops just don't scale properly after you hit 60. Actually, they don't scale at all. The only difference is, that higher level equipment drops are worth more coin. Then again, w/o double drop events, how frequent do armor/weapons/ornaments drop?

Thus, level a Veno to 55, keep it there, find a nice spot and grind away.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

I'd say the best spot is Foxwings at 60. Get a level 60 veno with a good flying pet and grind there. The pirates are also nice for BMs at 70, but the costs are huge.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not true, Borsuc.
Killing lev 90 mobs yield the same coin as killing 40 mobs even at lev 81. Yet, DQ drops in the 50s are at their peak.

Coin and drops just don't scale properly after you hit 60. Actually, they don't scale at all. The only difference is, that higher level equipment drops are worth more coin. Then again, w/o double drop events, how frequent do armor/weapons/ornaments drop?

Thus, level a Veno to 55, keep it there, find a nice spot and grind away.

You are right that coins dont scale but DQ drops are worth more at higher levels. Most of the money comes from NPCing DQ drops anyway.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are right that coins dont scale but DQ drops are worth more at higher levels. Most of the money comes from NPCing DQ drops anyway.

Yes, but DQ drops are more rare at higher levels. When you hit 80, you usually get way less DQ drops than at 60.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · April 2010

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not true, Borsuc.
Killing lev 90 mobs yield the same coin as killing 40 mobs even at lev 81. Yet, DQ drops in the 50s are at their peak.

Coin and drops just don't scale properly after you hit 60. Actually, they don't scale at all. The only difference is, that higher level equipment drops are worth more coin. Then again, w/o double drop events, how frequent do armor/weapons/ornaments drop?

Thus, level a Veno to 55, keep it there, find a nice spot and grind away.

x3 thats what Im gonna do...
My veno will be a grinding char

will stop at 50-60 around there... probably as you said 55 (for drop rates)

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Is that true? from pwdatabase they are about the same, I've noticed it's usually depending on their level proximity to a multiple of 10. For example, a mob at lvl70 will drop lvl70 DQ drops, a lvl71 mob will drop lvl70 DQ drops and very low chance for lvl80 DQ drops, etc.. the closer to 79 the more lvl80 probability and less lvl70, until 80 where only lvl80 DQ drops are possible.

And so on.

At least it's what I seen from pwdabatase. Which I know it is wrong many times, but I've no other source. b:sad

Fritigern - Lost City · April 2010

Check your PM's CeliaZ b:quiet

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Is that true? from pwdatabase they are about the same, I've noticed it's usually depending on their level proximity to a multiple of 10. For example, a mob at lvl70 will drop lvl70 DQ drops, a lvl71 mob will drop lvl70 DQ drops and very low chance for lvl80 DQ drops, etc.. the closer to 79 the more lvl80 probability and less lvl70, until 80 where only lvl80 DQ drops are possible.

And so on.

At least it's what I seen from pwdabatase. Which I know it is wrong many times, but I've no other source. b:sad

I have no proof that it really is much lower, but tbh, PWDB isn't always right. If you ask a high level player who hasn't oracled/hypered himself to 90, you can confirm my sayings.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · April 2010

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Coin and drops just don't scale properly after you hit 60. Actually, they don't scale at all. The only difference is, that higher level equipment drops are worth more coin. Then again, w/o double drop events, how frequent do armor/weapons/ornaments drop?

Thus, level a Veno to 55, keep it there, find a nice spot and grind away.

Shrunchkins were one of the easiest/quickest/most lucrative mobs I found to kill at 50.
L50 Shrunchkin: 164 +/- 123 coin. Total of top 7 drops * real drop rate + coin = 664 coin per mob + thread.

At 95 the best is probably lethal araneid sharpfangs, or spiders as everyone calls them.
L95 Spiders: 192 +/- 96 coin. Total of top 7 drops * real drop rate + coin = 1060 coin per mob + glaze.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have no proof that it really is much lower, but tbh, PWDB isn't always right. If you ask a high level player who hasn't oracled/hypered himself to 90, you can confirm my sayings.

Actually, I test out my coin/hr grind rate every now and then.

At 30, it was about 125-150k/hr grinding on mixed mobs at Silver Pool.

At 50, it was about 150-175k/hr grinding on Shrunchkins. That matches up with PWDB's figures (0.664k * 4 per min * 60 min = 159.4k/hr + thread + equip drops).

At 80 it was about 225-250k/hr grinding on cougarets. Also matches up with PWDB's figures (213.1k/hr + glue + equip drops).

I haven't tested it at around 95, but a good friend who is more anal about this stuff than I am reported 300-400k/hr from the spiders. I've tried them once and they are so easy to kill with so many grouped together that I can believe it.

Edit: Data

shrunchkin
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
gh charm	17.02%	2150	365.82895
hp pot		4.79%	260	12.441
yin yang	4.02%	2500	100.375
thread		3.96%		0
arrow		3.25%	100	3.2516
mp pot		3.19%	390	12.45894
jade		0.97%	620	6.00036

cougaret
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
myst tot	13.60%	3350	455.48275
myst orb	3.21%	3950	126.62515
hp pot		2.96%	650	19.23415
col glue	2.53%		0
mp pot		1.95%	975	19.05345
ammo		1.70%	100	1.7001
jade		0.51%	1360	6.87344


spider
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
conc ven	11.29%	4650	524.7804
comp ven	8.10%	3950	320.08825
glaze		3.11%		0
jade		1.46%	1675	24.409775
hp pot		0.84%	855	7.186275
anno		0.70%	100	0.6979
mp pot		0.55%	2350	12.99785

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · April 2010

Im so confused about that grinding stuff now:P But I guess leveling my level 30 veno to 50+ isnt bad at all, so thats what ill be doing now.. For the best money, should I do this by ONLY grinding, of questing and grinding?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Actually, I test out my coin/hr grind rate every now and then.

At 30, it was about 125-150k/hr grinding on mixed mobs at Silver Pool.

At 50, it was about 150-175k/hr grinding on Shrunchkins. That matches up with PWDB's figures (0.664k * 4 per min * 60 min = 159.4k/hr + thread + equip drops).

At 80 it was about 225-250k/hr grinding on cougarets. Also matches up with PWDB's figures (213.1k/hr + glue + equip drops).

I haven't tested it at around 95, but a good friend who is more anal about this stuff than I am reported 300-400k/hr from the spiders. I've tried them once and they are so easy to kill with so many grouped together that I can believe it.

Edit: Data
shrunchkin
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
gh charm	17.02%	2150	365.82895
hp pot		4.79%	260	12.441
yin yang	4.02%	2500	100.375
thread		3.96%		0
arrow		3.25%	100	3.2516
mp pot		3.19%	390	12.45894
jade		0.97%	620	6.00036

cougaret
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
myst tot	13.60%	3350	455.48275
myst orb	3.21%	3950	126.62515
hp pot		2.96%	650	19.23415
col glue	2.53%		0
mp pot		1.95%	975	19.05345
ammo		1.70%	100	1.7001
jade		0.51%	1360	6.87344


spider
Item		Rate	Value	Real coin
conc ven	11.29%	4650	524.7804
comp ven	8.10%	3950	320.08825
glaze		3.11%		0
jade		1.46%	1675	24.409775
hp pot		0.84%	855	7.186275
anno		0.70%	100	0.6979
mp pot		0.55%	2350	12.99785

So it seems that the while the amount of money increases, the drop rate gets lower. Interesting.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

So it seems that the while the amount of money increases, the drop rate gets lower. Interesting.

Yup, the drops per kill is lower, but the increased value of those drops outweighs the lower drop rate. It remains to be seen how the rumored nerf to DQ sell prices will affect this. Do note that the difference is not *huge*. Level 50 is about a 21% DQ drop rate. Level 95 is 19.4%. Cougarets are worse, but make up for it by having both a wanted and justice quest you can triple up on while grinding.

Also, the coin/hp and exp/hp is much worse at higher levels, but at higher levels you dish out a lot more DPS. Which is why they have to nerf your drop rate if you fight stuff much lower level than you. Otherwise the most optimal form of grinding would be for high level people to camp in low level areas and one-shot everything.

Gasoline - Lost City · April 2010

Set up cat shop and Buy/Sell tokens lol

Thats how people make money these days, more profitable than running any instance (unless you can solo it).

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide · April 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yup, the drops per kill is lower, but the increased value of those drops outweighs the lower drop rate. It remains to be seen how the rumored nerf to DQ sell prices will affect this. Do note that the difference is not *huge*. Level 50 is about a 21% DQ drop rate. Level 95 is 19.4%. Cougarets are worse, but make up for it by having both a wanted and justice quest you can triple up on while grinding.

Also, the coin/hp and exp/hp is much worse at higher levels, but at higher levels you dish out a lot more DPS. Which is why they have to nerf your drop rate if you fight stuff much lower level than you. Otherwise the most optimal form of grinding would be for high level people to camp in low level areas and one-shot everything.

Guess what, once in a while I just go AFK in a lvl 45 camp (the cat guy shoothers at sumor) with my pet at def. Every 5 minutes I hold down my F4 key for 10 seconds and proceed to watch TV. Coin drops are good even as a lv 81.

Telarith - Sanctuary · April 2010

You could always earn money the old school way. Only dailies are crazy stone and world quest, no BHing. Grind the rest of your xp once quests are done. This is the way everyone got their money early on, as the leveling was so slow their income was enough to cover skill costs and still have a large profit margin. Then invest that in gold when it is cheap, and either buy a good sale item to later resell, or sell the gold itself when price rises enough to more than cover costs from transactions. Repeat.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · April 2010

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Guess what, once in a while I just go AFK in a lvl 45 camp (the cat guy shoothers at sumor) with my pet at def. Every 5 minutes I hold down my F4 key for 10 seconds and proceed to watch TV. Coin drops are good even as a lv 81.

Yeah, that certainly qualifies as an easy way to "grind." But the coin drops comprise only about 20%-25% of the loot value from the kills. The hp difference between level 50 and 95 mobs is only about 2.4x. So you kill probably 1.2x faster (since only the pet is attacking), but only get ~25% as much loot. It's not a good solution for maximizing your coin/hr rate. It's a good solution for maximizing your coin/effort rate, which is good if you're doing some other activity like watching TV.

Speaking of which, the best coin/hr rate is attained by getting a second RL job and converting your paycheck to Zen. Minimum wage in the U.S. is $7.25/hr. Figure 20% of that goes to taxes, and you're effectively making 5.8 gold/hr. At 400k gold prices, that's 2.32 mil/hr. So per hour spent doing an activity, a RL job will get you coin at least 9x faster than grinding in the game. Of course real work is not as fun as playing the game, but grinding ranks pretty low on my list of fun things to do too.

Every time I mention that, people seem to get upset and try to make some artificial distinction between time spent in the game vs. time spent at work. Time is time. Consider buying a herc, which at 400k gold is about 75 million. You can grind 4 hours a day @ 250k/hr for 75 days to make 75 mil. Or you can get a part-time minimum wage job working 4 hours a day, make the money in 8 days, quit, and spend the remaining 67 days enjoying playing with your herc.

FoxyCleo - Raging Tide · April 2010

I agree 100% with Solandri.

Tips for making money without $?

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