Will Demon Spark be Nerfed?
Comments
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Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Poison Fang + Strength of the Titans = Fist Mastery.
From what I can tell, fist barbs' main advantages over fist BMs are the larger HP pool and the ability to Invoke. In other words, they can survive things that a fist BM can't.
Person said on their post that they heard fist barbs can out dps fist bms. Devoted said no. Person post saying to clarify why. I said why. Never meant to imply what is better for tanking since its not even close with the skills a barb has.
to clarify /reason for fist barb = /reason they believed fist barb out dps fist bm.
Strength of titans can be given to the rest of the squad. Fully buffed fist bm will have better dps.
The end. b:bye
Side note to everyone else. A fist barb maybe pretty fun or something but seriously would you want one for TW? Or pulling a cat?0 -
Ah, misread slightly. Didn't notice the "your", so I interpreted it as "there is no reason for a fist barb". My mistake._makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Person said on their post that they heard fist barbs can out dps fist bms. Devoted said no. Person post saying to clarify why. I said why. Never meant to imply what is better for tanking since its not even close with the skills a barb has.
to clarify /reason for fist barb = /reason they believed fist barb out dps fist bm.
Of course. I was simply pointing out that it's theoretically possible for a fist barb to do better DPS than a fist BM with identical equipment, under certain rather contrived conditions. Specifically, self-buffed only, and the target has lower magical defense than physical defense.Strength of titans can be given to the rest of the squad. Fully buffed fist bm will have better dps.
How many demon barbs are cata pullers anyway? It was my impression that that's what sage barbs are for.Side note to everyone else. A fist barb maybe pretty fun or something but seriously would you want one for TW? Or pulling a cat?0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »How many demon barbs are cata pullers anyway? It was my impression that that's what sage barbs are for.
Never said the fist barb was demon. b:bye0 -
Part of the problem is that - int is purely gear based...not class specific. You could have a wizard or a cleric with full fist build and minus int that would still probably deal alot of damage with 5 aps. They should make fists/claws bm class specific weapons, which would solve this problem entirely.0
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RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary wrote: »Part of the problem is that - int is purely gear based...not class specific. You could have a wizard or a cleric with full fist build and minus int that would still probably deal alot of damage with 5 aps. They should make fists/claws bm class specific weapons, which would solve this problem entirely.
1. Other classes such as barbs and archers are "better" just doing DPS ~ (make class specific)
2. Even a BM my lvl with just a little -int + same grade/refined gear makes it a hellish job to keep aggro let alone anyone over 2.5a/s. ~ (-int needs changed with cap, switching how -int works to %, demon spark nerf, etc)
Dunno but 2 problems exist in my eyes.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Of course. I was simply pointing out that it's theoretically possible for a fist barb to do better DPS than a fist BM with identical equipment, under certain rather contrived conditions. Specifically, self-buffed only, and the target has lower magical defense than physical defense.
Please explain how anything can out dd this:
fist ulti glitch(135% weapon damage as fire) -> triple spark -> attack till back at 2 sparks ->
spear ulti glitch (50% chance for 100% crit for 5 seconds) -> keep attacking till triple spark is out -> repeat.
you can't.0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »Please explain how anything can out dd this:
fist ulti glitch(135% weapon damage as fire) -> triple spark -> attack till back at 2 sparks ->
spear ulti glitch (50% chance for 100% crit for 5 seconds) -> keep attacking till triple spark is out -> repeat.
you can't.
+1, I cannot think of any way to beat it either *shrug*.
@Brigid: You have just been arguing with someone who believes in what they say so much they hide behind a level 2 alt b:surrender.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)0 -
Devoted - Lost City wrote: »Please explain how anything can out dd this:
fist ulti glitch(135% weapon damage as fire) -> triple spark -> attack till back at 2 sparks ->
spear ulti glitch (50% chance for 100% crit for 5 seconds) -> keep attacking till triple spark is out -> repeat.
you can't.
Get a GM weapon -> Get 5 attacks/sec -> Triple spark -> wind up wasting your spark because whatever you're attacking just died on the first hit.
You asked how to do it. Never said it had to be realistic! b:laugh0 -
Demon spark is OP, everyone knows that xD. There are sage/demon skills that are better than vice versa. Demon spark needs a little bit of nerf and some other sage / demon skills.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
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Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Demon spark is OP, everyone knows that xD. There are sage/demon skills that are better than vice versa. Demon spark needs a little bit of nerf and some other sage / demon skills.
No it doesn't need to be changed, leave it how it is. They should work on the damn bugs they have neglected since the start of PW and ditch the greedy attitude and bring the game back to its former glory.Get a GM weapon -> Get 5 attacks/sec -> Triple spark -> wind up wasting your spark because whatever you're attacking just died on the first hit.
You asked how to do it. Never said it had to be realistic! b:laugh
Lmao, ok you win b:chuckle.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)0 -
Actually, I think I can, at least based on my rough estimates in that Pure or Fist thread:Devoted - Lost City wrote: »Please explain how anything can out dd this:
fist ulti glitch(135% weapon damage as fire) -> triple spark -> attack till back at 2 sparks ->
spear ulti glitch (50% chance for 100% crit for 5 seconds) -> keep attacking till triple spark is out -> repeat.
you can't.
Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> Demon HF -> Keep attacking until 3spark is out -> Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> spear ulti glitch -> keep attacking until 3spark is out -> repeat.
I'm not certain though, since it depends on the exact time it takes to perform the ulti glitches, as well as how much of HF's 9 seconds are available to fisting. I assumed 8 seconds of HF'ed fist time in my original estimate. If the ulti glitches are quick enough to execute, it may even be possible to sneak a spear ulti glitch in before the HF for even more damage.
Admittedly, this is still a fist BM.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Actually, I think I can, at least based on my rough estimates in that Pure or Fist thread:
Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> Demon HF -> Keep attacking until 3spark is out -> Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> spear ulti glitch -> keep attacking until 3spark is out -> repeat.
I'm not certain though, since it depends on the exact time it takes to perform the ulti glitches, as well as how much of HF's 9 seconds are available to fisting. I assumed 8 seconds of HF'ed fist time in my original estimate. If the ulti glitches are quick enough to execute, it may even be possible to sneak a spear ulti glitch in before the HF for even more damage.
Admittedly, this is still a fist BM.
It kinda depends on the luck with spear ulti glitch. The more times you get the 100% crit proc, the less HF method will be able to compete since that method winds up with you spending time unsparked. And since we all pretty much know that it's partly the fact that you can keep 3 sparks going that makes this DPS so amazing, the time spent unsparked will add up.
On the other hand, your method is a guarantee for double damage instead of a 50% chance of getting i and leaves room for possible 4x damage from getting crits in during HF, which should, in theory and depending on how many you manage, make up for the time spent unsparked.
So.... I guess the real factors in play here are luck on spear's crit proc and how high your original crit rate is. The higher your original crit, the more your method of using HF shines compared to relying purely on spear ulti glitch.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Actually, I think I can, at least based on my rough estimates in that Pure or Fist thread:
Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> Demon HF -> Keep attacking until 3spark is out -> Fist ulti glitch -> 3spark -> attack till 2 sparks -> spear ulti glitch -> keep attacking until 3spark is out -> repeat.
I'm not certain though, since it depends on the exact time it takes to perform the ulti glitches, as well as how much of HF's 9 seconds are available to fisting. I assumed 8 seconds of HF'ed fist time in my original estimate. If the ulti glitches are quick enough to execute, it may even be possible to sneak a spear ulti glitch in before the HF for even more damage.
Admittedly, this is still a fist BM.
Glitching usually takes under a second, usually around .5 for me. Heaven's flame is good but you can't get the amp without using the two sparks which means you can't constantly triple spark. I'm not sure which would be better though, sacrificing a bit of time to deal possibly 4x damage per hit or constant 3 spark and 5 aps.0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »Barbs have no business having fists/claws.
Sure they do, they can reclaim the title as main tank. The only thing a barb really needs more than 15k hp is for pulling cata and the few WB a BM can't actually tank.
It also gives them the ability to actually be considered a valid DD.
Sure, the thought of a 5 APS barb scares me, but I'm not against it at all.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
With a cycle of 3spark -> HF -> 3spark -> repeat, I believe the unsparked time is less than 2 seconds per cycle. The 8 seconds or so of guaranteed double damage more than outweigh the 2 seconds unsparked and 2 seconds lost to the HF cast. It really only works at 5 aps and with Demon HF though. I think level 10 HF lasts just long enough to break even, and 4 aps sparked results in needing every single bit of chi to maintain 3spark.
The question is really whether the time taken to fist ulti glitch adds too much unsparked time.0 -
Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
@Brigid: You have just been arguing with someone who believes in what they say so much they hide behind a level 2 alt b:surrender.
It wasn't an argument its a clarification of what our opinions were and I never put down his/her opinions. It's not like I insulted that player.
Your pet peeve of hating alt posting is your opinion and your entitled to it. I still wasn't wrong in what I said. b:kiss0 -
Question...does having a base attack rate of 3.33 aps and then demon sparking give you 4 asp or 5 asp? I am currently seeing different numbers and claims from different threads. And does the current attack rate increase you get from demon spark gets calculated through interval reduction, or by a % aps (such as how Relentless courage increases attack speed by a %, and Windshield by a small interval reduction).
Since 4 aps is what is needed for perma spark, using a base attk rate of 3.33 -> 0.3 sec/attk
Calculating it both ways:
Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through interval reduction
Current demon spark give 25% increased in attack rate
attack duration of 0.3 sec/attk is decreased by 25%
0.3 - (0.3x0.25) = 0.225 -> 4.44 aps
Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through % (as its skill description suggests)
If you apply the 25% increase in attack rate to the 3.33 aps directly:
3.33 + (3.33x0.25) = 4.16 aps (which isn't even close to 5 aps)
So with a 25% increase from current demon spark and base 3.33 aps, is that 4.44 or 4.16 rounded to 5 aps or 4 aps?
Thanks0 -
Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »Question...does having a base attack rate of 3.33 aps and then demon sparking give you 4 asp or 5 asp? I am currently seeing different numbers and claims from different threads. And does the current attack rate increase you get from demon spark gets calculated through interval reduction, or by a % aps (such as how Relentless courage increases attack speed by a %, and Windshield by a small interval reduction).
Since 4 aps is what is needed for perma spark, using a base attk rate of 3.33 -> 0.3 sec/attk
Calculating it both ways:
Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through interval reduction
Current demon spark give 25% increased in attack rate
attack duration of 0.3 sec/attk is decreased by 25%
0.3 - (0.3x0.25) = 0.225 -> 4.44 aps
Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through % (as its skill description suggests)
If you apply the 25% increase in attack rate to the 3.33 aps directly:
3.33 + (3.33x0.25) = 4.16 aps (which isn't even close to 5 aps)
So with a 25% increase from current demon spark and base 3.33 aps, is that 4.44 or 4.16 rounded to 5 aps or 4 aps?
Thanks
Interval of 0.225 rounds down to the benefit of the player. Interval goes in blocks of 0.05.
Thus the next interval value is 0.2 = 5a/s0 -
Ahh...that makes sense, thank you.0
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Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »I heard they will remove Demon Spark attack speed buff, but also lower the cap to 3 atk/sec.
So all in all, it's not THAT bad, people who stacked -interval a lot will still have the fastest attainable by having (nearly) 3 atk/sec.
If it was only cap lowered there would be MORE cries because demon spark attack speed buff would be rendered useless by those heavy geared ones who already have 3 atk/sec unbuffed.
Now only thing left is if they plan to add another buff to demon spark instead of -interval. Like, 25% more damage. That would make it kinda awesome actually and nobody would have to cry about anymore.
Actually, this would be a bad thing. Because then either swords or veno fox forms would have the highest DPS, and make fists utterly useless. So a lowered ceiling means throw fists away and refine the heck out of your blades.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, this would be a bad thing. Because then either swords or veno fox forms would have the highest DPS, and make fists utterly useless. So a lowered ceiling means throw fists away and refine the heck out of your blades.
Talk about OP, Veno Hell Spark get 700% magic damage and 650% melee (sage 900% and 500%) damage bonus... if you want to cap attack speed at 3 aps, that removes permaspark, but we should get a damage bonus similar to this to compensate...
Either that or totally nerf veno sage/demon spark... as well as that of every other class.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Talk about OP, Veno Hell Spark get 700% magic damage and 650% melee (sage 900% and 500%) damage bonus... if you want to cap attack speed at 3 aps, that removes permaspark, but we should get a damage bonus similar to this to compensate...
Either that or totally nerf veno sage/demon spark... as well as that of every other class.
We'd gladly take the bonuses every other class gets with Sage/Demon sparks.. ~_~[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
oh look, i'm inactive again.
b> leviciti b:cry0 -
AinaMizuako - Sanctuary wrote: »We'd gladly take the bonuses every other class gets with Sage/Demon sparks.. ~_~
Really? BM Hell Spark only gives 500% weapon damage and a 25% speed increase for normal melee attacks... you would trade your 700/650% hell, 900/500% magic/physical damage bonus for 500% weapon damage and a 25% increase in normal physical attack speed?
You're crazy.
I would take 900% weapon damage increase over 25% speed increase...I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
for venos, 25% more speed would also mean 25% faster heals, so depending on the situation, it actually could make sense.
also, for casters, 25% more speed means 25% more damage ... similar to fist BMs.0 -
FoxyCleo - Raging Tide wrote: »for venos, 25% more speed would also mean 25% faster heals, so depending on the situation, it actually could make sense.
also, for casters, 25% more speed means 25% more damage ... similar to fist BMs.
No, it wouldn't.... because skills aren't affected by increased attack speed. -Channeling is what affects heal speed. How do you not know that? ...I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »No, it wouldn't.... because skills aren't affected by increased attack speed. -Channeling is what affects heal speed.
It's true b:surrender, attack speed would be useless for me unless i was a melee cleric. It is channeling that speeds up my heals/attacks.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)0 -
Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's true b:surrender, attack speed would be useless for me unless i was a melee cleric. It is channeling that speeds up my heals/attacks.
gasp!
the mythical heavy armor melee cleric!
b:chuckledarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
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Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
hmm talking physical only, 25% speed increase versus 150% more weapon damage.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Really? BM Hell Spark only gives 500% weapon damage and a 25% speed increase for normal melee attacks... you would trade your 700/650% hell, 900/500% magic/physical damage bonus for 500% weapon damage and a 25% increase in normal physical attack speed?
You're crazy.
I would take 900% weapon damage increase over 25% speed increase...
150% weapon dmg means the bonus from an extra 225 str for melee.
Remember that the "500%" BM bonus is actually, on average versus a veno, a 625% increase due to the 25% faster atk speed. But the 25% also affects the previous base attack damage. Simply put, the more str you have, the more effective the 25% speed increase is in contrast to a veno's bonus.
And you only need like what? 25% of weapon dmg to be equivalent? I'd say by the time you get Demon spark you have plenty of str for that...
I'd say the 25% faster atk speed is way better, at least for physical damage.0
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