Bsod...

Wendixy - Heavens Tear
Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
edited May 2010 in Support Desk
My computer has been fine for several years now. I run a virus scan with Avira every day, and no virus has been detected. After the game started working, however, it kept crashing. I submit bug reports as the window pops up.

After it crashes for a few times, my computer crashes. Now it's stuck in BSOD... the IT guy said something is messed up in my registry since I cannot even boot in safe mode. Is anyone else having this problem?

I have been only using PWI btw. I didn't even use browser.

I have to repair my computer's system with the original CD either way, but is this problem really caused by PWI? b:cry

Please help. Thank you
Post edited by Wendixy - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver
    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 432 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Have you tried another virus scanner? I highly doubt that this was the fault of your downloading PWI, but maybe, just maybe, you accidentally obtained a virus that can hide itself from virus scanners? This is just a guess, since there are some out there. If it's your registry that's messed up, it's most likely a virus. You really need to have your computer checked out completely to make sure before you install a new copy of your OS.
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    First, back up, back up, back up.

    If it has been doing it often, recently, it probably is either an old Windows install, with a bunch of crud in the registry, or a hardware problem, like long-term heat damage (FI, your GPU getting too hot too often), a gradually failing fan, or dust clogging things up.

    If it happens mostly under load, I'd say pop it open, and see if there's dust clogging it up. If so, get some canned air, take it outside, and blow everything out.

    If you have your OS CD, and are going to re-install anyway, try a repair install, first. Then get your drivers and updates squared away, if that works.

    You might also want to check for bad memory, with a Linux live CD that has memtest on it.

    If your computer was made in the early 2000s, you may want to check it for bad caps, too.


    As for PWI, or any other non-system app causing it...
    To have good performance, we need to cache things. Your CPU has caches ranging from just a couple cycles out to ~20 cycles, because RAM could be 100-300 cycles away, which could be 100-300 cycles of doing nothing.

    Your hard drive is typically 10ms or so away. In the olden days, even more. So, your OS uses software-level caching keep things in RAM, and write in batches for better performance (super-simplification). So, writing to something doesn't mean it properly got written right then.

    But, there's more. When you have a hard crash of some kind (such as BSOD, or power failure), anything waiting to be written is stuck, and anything partially written is, well, stuck halfway done. In some cases, the data will even get somewhat scrambled on the way with the crash. Worse, if it's bad RAM or a bad PSU, it can think it got done successfully, but could have used corrupted bad data (currently, only FreeBSD and Solaris can natively detect this last problem case, using ZFS, AFAIK).

    So, modern filesystems try to deal with writes as transactions that can be rolled back, by writing about what they are doing. But, these features, on most filesystems, can only go so far. After enough bad shutdowns during writes over a short enough period of time, some of data just gets plain hosed. if the registry gets corrupted, FI, but the backup of it is also corrupt--what can you do? The registry, being a near-monolithic set of data (only a handful of files to configure your whole system) is a good 'target' for this kind of problem, because it is so regularly being read from and written to.

    Drivers can cause it, low-level software can cause it and hardware can cause it. Normal apps can be a trigger, calling buggy drivers, or stressing hardware to a point of failure, but they aren't going to up and cause your machine to be hosed. WinME was the last consumer-oriented OS from MS that allowed that kind of **** to happen. Crashes with the bug report thing may or may not be the fault of PWI, but your PC becoming unbootable would definitely not be their/its fault.

    Oh, BTW, in case it's unrelated to other things, your antivirus isn't McAffee's, is it?

    Finally, when you do get your OS back up and running, for any future BSODs, go ahead and set it to not reboot after them (Google, and you will find instructions), which is one of those annoying default settings (infinite reboots, that don't let you read the error, are not fun to deal with).
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have Windows XP Home Edition
    Anti-Virus is Avira. I had AVG before this IT guy came over to install a new RAM (1gig).

    Everything started happening when he left. I have to try the repair install later on a USB drive since my CD ROMS are dead.

    Or maybe it's just my old Hard Drive... This computer is 6 years old. I did clean out the dust when that guy opened up the CPU to put the memory chip in.

    Before blue screens started popping up, CHKDSK started to run every time I boot. It was not auto set to run in the registry. My friends keep telling me that my hard drive is failing, but I'm not sure now.
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    AVG is fine, but kind of pig. You don't notice it much on fast hardware, but Anything less than a Core 2, I'd use Antivir or Avast.
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Before blue screens started popping up, CHKDSK started to run every time I boot. It was not auto set to run in the registry. My friends keep telling me that my hard drive is failing, but I'm not sure now.
    That would be likely. Chkdsk running every now and then, esp. after bad shutdowns, is fine (if I get any that are unexpected, I manually run it), but every start? Yeah, that's bad news.

    However, if it started after a RAM upgrade, it could be bad RAM.

    And, if your optical drives are dead, they can easily be replaced. Even back when they were made with some semblance of real quality, 5 years or so out of one wasn't bad, so being dead in a 6-yr-old PC is not unexpected. Lite-On and Sony (NEC) are good safe bets for brands (make sure to get the same interface as your current drives--SATA or IDE). It can be awfully handy to have a working one, to get your problem(s) diagnosed and fixed, and to make it easier to re-install the OS. I would lead towards RAM being more of a problem, but running memtest, typically done from a CD, is a must to diagnose it.

    If you have someone you trust to mess with your PC, you may want to (a) have the HDD's SMART data checked (take it out of your PC, or use a live Linux CD, etc.), particularly reallocated sector count, and (b) run memtest from a bootable disc or flash drive.
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm more convinced with the malfunctioning RAM. Since all bad things started to happened after the RAM installation. I've asked a few tech-savvy friends, as well as my school's IT. They all said it could be the RAM. Also, I don't think my 6 years old computer can handle a 1 gig RAM.


    Edit: I'm not that tech savvy, but should I just take the RAM out?

    The newly installed RAM ins 1 gig, and the old one is 256 mb. Should I just remove the 1 gig RAM and go to registry?
  • surtr
    surtr Posts: 3,378 Perfect World Employee
    edited April 2010
    Remove the 1gb stick and see if you're still having these problems. If you aren't, it means it's definitely the RAM. If you still have the problems, I'd lean towards hard drive failure.
    ==/Senior QA Lead/==

    Surtr from the south wielding fire
    The gods' swords shine in the darkness, like stars in the night
    Mountains collapse into rubble and fiends shall fall
    Man walks the road to ruin as the sky splits in two
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm more convinced with the malfunctioning RAM. Since all bad things started to happened after the RAM installation. I've asked a few tech-savvy friends, as well as my school's IT. They all said it could be the RAM. Also, I don't think my 6 years old computer can handle a 1 gig RAM.
    If it is not a notebook, chances are very slim that it can't handle 1GB RAM. Maybe not that specific stick, or maybe it needs it as 2x512, but any PC from '04 should be able to handle 1 or more GB total RAM. For that matter, my notebook is almost ten years old, and it can handle 1GB...
    Edit: I'm not that tech savvy, but should I just take the RAM out?
    Given the situation, there's not too much to worry about (IE, you can't make it worse, unless yo spill something sweet in it, right?). Just be cautious, and use common sense--FI, nothing should take excessive force, and if you are working in a tight spot, just be slow and careful. Also, you've used all the right terminology, so far, and not made any major logical mistakes, so you're clearly not clueless or willingly ignorant.
    The newly installed RAM ins 1 gig, and the old one is 256 mb. Should I just remove the 1 gig RAM and go to registry?
    1. Turn the PC off.
    2. Disconnect the power cord.
    3. Press the power button (this will discharge the PSU sufficiently not to be a worry).
    4. Open the PC.
    5. Touch a metal, likely-grounded spot on the case (this is how we get away with not using anti-stat wrist straps), such as where a drive is screwed in. If your PC is on carpet, be extra careful, touch those spots more often, and don't move your feet as you work.
    6. The RAM slots will have tabs that help hold the RAM in on either side. If you push the top of the tabs outward, the RAM will slightly lift up. Then, it should come right out. If your old RAM is still in there, you should be OK leaving it. Hopefully, it will be obvious which stick is which by something on the label (IE, saying 1GB or having 1024 in the model number; or one stick having a cryptic OEM sticker, and the new one having retail branding stuff on it).
    See the pictures, here.
    7. Close it back up, plug power back in, and see what happens.

    If your data got corrupted, you could still not be able to get the PC working properly, and could need to re-install the OS. If it looks that way, start with a new, working optical drive, and try verifying that the RAM is OK, before you go down that road (or make sure, if someone else does it, that memtest runs overnight w/o any errors). And, if it is, then run check out the HDD. It's possible that the 1GB stick is fine, too, but may not work with the 256MB stick, as well, so don't go throwing it out, even if removing it seems to fix it (in that case, get an optical drive, some way to run memtest, and try it with only the 1GB stick).
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well, I took the 1gb stick out, but PC still gives me the BSoD lol b:infuriated

    I guess I have to repair it. I really don't wanna lose all of my documents on that computer.

    The blue screen never told me the error that crashed the computer btw.

    Since the CD-ROMS are dead, should I just get a USB CD-ROM drive? Or is a normal USB okay for this. The home edition version for XP is about 600-700 MB right? It's not a retail version since it came with the computer.
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The OS is probably toast. But, it wouldn't hurt to try a repair install, if you get an optical drive, and have an OS CD.

    Since you're worried about your data, the first thing to do is find someone who will help you back that data up; or, take it upon yourself to learn. Once your data is safely somewhere else, then get to worrying about the rest of it. It can be annoying to get everything back up and running, and set like you want, but if all of your documents and program data files are safe and sound, it's just an annoyance. Also, it could help to have someone with some more knowledge around to help. Being right there, and reading some text on the web, just aren't the same, you know? You probably shouldn't risk getting in over your head w/o someone who can help...and just in case you could be tempted, and don't already know, avoid Geek Squad and their big-name competitors like the plague.

    Once your data is backed up, run diagnostics for memory and the hard drive, and if that all comes back good, try testing the 1GB stick by itself. It may be fine all alone, and 256MB is just a sad amount to work with, today.

    Then, with some known-good combination of stuff, re-install the OS.

    USB optical drives have a tendency to not work so well on desktop PCs, especially older ones. Trying to boot up from, and install an OS from, the drive is not the same as plugging it in with a working OS up and running. As old as it is, it's almost certainly a parallel ATA drive (uses a wide ribbon cable for data), and will need to be replaced with one (as opposed to SATA).

    For doing the diagnostics, and possibly even backing up, do you have a working computer with a working burner in it? You could then at least do some of that, yourself, to verify that it is one of the two currently-likely culprits (RAM or HDD). But, again: make backing up your stuff your first priority.

    Also, on the OS note, did you get an actual disc with your computer (and know where it is, right now)? That would make re-installing it much easier. If you have a recovery partition, but no disc, it can get complicated, sometimes.
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I repaired the PC, and now it's running. But the blue screen still pops out and tell me there's an Registry Error... Do I really have to wipe everything out now? I only have a 2gb USB. I'm moving everything there and back them up in this Mac. The computer still crashes while I'm backing up files.......
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Pretty much. It's practically impossible to really diagnose and fix such errors. You might be able to do a system restore to an earlier date, but I wouldn't be surprised if enough has been corrupted outside of what system restore saves for that to fix everything. I also wouldn't want to risk it crashing in the middle of a system restore and becoming unbootable, before your stuff is backed up.

    In the future, get to worrying when it starts doing things like crashing a lot, running chkdsk too often, etc., which it should not be doing. If you could do a repair and at least easily get your files off w/o having to do more, you're not in too bad of shape. I could get paid to do this stuff before the recession, and believe me, it can be much worse.

    And, again, once you're done, assuming this Mac can burn CDs, get some Linux ISO that includes memtest, or just plain memtest (wikipedia entry, home), and run it for a few passes each time with different RAM configurations (256MB, 1GB, 256MB+1GB) to verify that there is/was a RAM problem, before going and reloading Windows. If they all come up clean (there should be 0 errors), find the brand of your hard drive, and get their diagnostics to run, too, if they have any (note: for Maxtor, go to Seagate). That can take time, but it's better than reloading Windows only to have it start all over again right away.
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I deleted all the partitions on this computer. I already have a back up of all the files.

    That should fix all the problem right? Besides the troubles of reinstalling lots of applications...
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I deleted all the partitions on this computer. I already have a back up of all the files.

    That should fix all the problem right? Besides the troubles of reinstalling lots of applications...
    Don't forget finding all of your drivers, and installing those (but, a USB flash drive and other computer with a 'net connection will make that easier).

    Yes, it should fix the problem, but it would be good to go ahead and check to make sure that it was that RAM configuration causing the problem. And, if it was, check the 1GB stick by itself. An XP SP3 install, with minimal extra software, will idle at nearly 256MB, and memory-heavy updates, like service packs, will take much longer with very little RAM, as will software installations. I wouldn't even dream of trying to play any games with that, either. If your PC is happy with the 1GB stick by itself (fairly likely, IMO), that would be a night and day improvement over 256MB.
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • Wendixy - Heavens Tear
    Wendixy - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    The RAM wasn't at fault, but somehow the registry got messed up. Maybe the IT guy did that when he was in regedit...

    The problems are solved now. The only thing left is the video driver.


    Thank you! :)


    Edit:
    The game does run with the 256 RAM, but it crashes whenever I'm at a laggy area. That's basically any place with more than 10 players.
  • Della_Brown - Heavens Tear
    Della_Brown - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    If you're back up and running...try the 1GB stick, again, but w/o the 256MB. Most anything should either run comfortably in 1GB, or plain need a newer PC. With that, you could hold out until that PC is just not good enough to do anything but email, before upgrading :).
    "adults on HT is an ancient myth used to scare away the kids from stealing their parents credit cards D:" - Santacruz
  • zvjerko
    zvjerko Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I have same problem as Wendix and cant find solution. First I must say that these crashes start with latest PWI updates. Im advanced PC user and regulary scan for viruses (AVG internet security), downloading new drivers etc. Dxdiag report me no problem at all. My PC is little older but it is still capable to run this game. At beginning everything work fine (few hours) and then game start crashing over and over again.

    PC spec:
    MB Epox 8KDA3+ 250GB nGorce 3
    AMD Athlon 64@1.8 GHZ
    1GB RAM (2x512 Kingmax)
    ATI Radeon X1650 with 512MB RAM
    120GB SATA HDD

    Note: Earlyer I have 2 HDDs (1 SATA and 1 PATA) but I remove PATA coz thinking maybe that cause problem. And sorry for my bad english
  • zvjerko
    zvjerko Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I have same problem as Wendix and cant find solution. First I must say that these crashes start with latest PWI updates. Im advanced PC user and regulary scan for viruses (AVG internet security), downloading new drivers etc. Dxdiag report me no problem at all. My PC is little older but it is still capable to run this game. At beginning everything work fine (few hours) and then game start crashing over and over again.

    PC spec:
    MB Epox 8KDA3+ 250GB nGorce 3
    AMD Athlon 64@1.8 GHZ
    1GB RAM (2x512 Kingmax)
    ATI Radeon X1650 with 512MB RAM
    120GB SATA HDD

    Note: Earlyer I have 2 HDDs (1 SATA and 1 PATA) but I remove PATA coz thinking maybe that cause problem. And sorry for my bad english
  • darthpanda16
    darthpanda16 Posts: 9,471 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    If you do not 100% know how to do diagnostics on your PC and fix hardware, it is often best to take your PC to a PC Tech professional and have them thoroughly analyze it. Otherwise, other parts of your system could be damaged or your data deleted.

    It'll be helpful to us if you tell us some of your computer's information.

    1) What is the make and model number of your computer?

    2) Please also tell us whether you are running a 32bit or 64bit version of Windows. You can find out in Windows by going here: Start > Control Panel > System & Maintenance > System. Then look under System > System Type. It will then display 32bit Operating System or 64bit Operating System. Include that info with the info we ask for below.

    3) To create a dxdiag log, go to Start, click on Run, then type in dxdiag and press Enter. Click on Save All Information as a text file (on your Desktop as an example.
    If you are using Vista or 7, go to the Start Menu, click on the Search menu and type dxdiag.exe.

    4) Copy and paste the top half of your dxdiag into your forum post (that means 50% of the text). If you have Vista, please take out the (TM) (the trademark symbol) out of the text file, as the forums will cut it off and won't display the rest of the text.

    If you have a 64bit system, please click on the 64bit Dxdiag/DirectX button to save the correct log file. This is important so that we can help you find the right software for your system.

    We'll take a look at it, and offer our advice (or our super cool and helpful community might beat us to answering things for you).
    Do you need help learning about patching the game, installing it, changing antivirus/firewall settings, changing network settings, learn how to use a computer, keeping your PC maintained and more?
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