Undine Strike stacks with?

Bloop - Harshlands · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

Dont put words in my mouth...

Never said wizards should have those skills. b:angry

I was simply demonstrating how ripped off wizards are in the scheme of magic users, I fully dont give a **** if your BIDS can crit 9k on a cleric, I know a cleric who can crit 12k on a lvl 100 cleric, plus he can spam heal himself, cast a 17 second sleep, use multiple debuffs, and the rest of those good things wizards cant do.

Why even defend wizards on tyhe basis of a crit ulti? A friggin 10-15% chance to one shot is really worth the zero survivability to you? And you think its fine and dandy they give wizards debuffs that dont work together?

You sound like a non-factor who doesnt get ganked every time they show up to a fight. ijs.

Yes, we are gimped in a way. But who cares? It's what we can do in TW is what makes us amazing. Clerics are heal btchs, venos are purge and amp slaves and imo those jobs are not fun at all. But then again, you have yet to be in a real TW.

_makina_ - Sanctuary · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

Dont put words in my mouth...

Never said wizards should have those skills. b:angry

I was simply demonstrating how ripped off wizards are in the scheme of magic users, I fully dont give a **** if your BIDS can crit 9k on a cleric, I know a cleric who can crit 12k on a lvl 100 cleric, plus he can spam heal himself, cast a 17 second sleep, use multiple debuffs, and the rest of those good things wizards cant do.

Why even defend wizards on tyhe basis of a crit ulti? A friggin 10-15% chance to one shot is really worth the zero survivability to you? And you think its fine and dandy they give wizards debuffs that dont work together?

You sound like a non-factor who doesnt get ganked every time they show up to a fight. ijs.

Wizard's do get the short end of the stick in terms of a lot of aspects of the game but who cares if a cleric can crit for 12k on another cleric (I can do anywhere from 10-19k on a cleric by myself, who cares?), all clerics debuffs hurt themselves as well, duh they do things we cant do cause maybe THEY ARE A DIFFERENT CLASS!?!?!?!?! (its not like 7 out of the 8 classes can have 35k hp like barbs right?), if you get gank your supposed to die most the time and if they dont kill me I'd talk trash to them for being so weaksause, since when do we have zero survivability when we generally got more pdef then 6 out of 8 classes (depending on build) by a pretty large margin without having to be in some form that stops us from using half our skills, and finally if you want to QQ that much about a wiz why not reroll at least enjoy what the heck your playing.

I play wiz for one reason only and that is to TW. PK on a PVE server is a joke at best. Yes, I know what pk on PVP server is like since I originated in LC as an archer (RQ vs GuardianZ mass pvp was very awesome there had to be almost the same amount of people as a TW) but moved to Sanctuary after 1 year of playing on LC due to financial reasons. I don't play wiz to be support class (although we can for a couple of seconds if we really had to) or to kill mobs. My job is to **** (nicer way of saying what I really want to say) on players and do a damn good job at it.

Clerics for twing are generally used as catapult healers or party healers who assist attack when they can and I'd rather not have to keep my eyes on all team members health bars and buffs. I'd rather just concentrate on killing players + I totally don't want to deal with the drama or stupid stuff clerics have to deal with like for example things like MY CHARM TICKED!!!!!, HEAL ME NOW!!!, REZ ME NOW!!! BUFF ME NOW!!!, Barb's running hell of far ahead and thinking you'll just *poof* be there in time to heal him when he aggros 6 mobs and the boss, if party wipes its your fault for not being a "good healer" even though you died first >.> cause the Barb's a genius and decides to bring a physical AOE boss close to you when your blue bubbling b:sad. I am in gratitude of clerics for what they put up with cause I sure as hell would rage.

Barbs i'd rather not be one giant meat shield hearing what some barbs go through for charms to tw i'd rather just quit. b:surrender

BMs are pretty cool in my opinion but there's like soooo many of them and my wiz still one shots them when they aren't looking.

Venos same problem as BM's, your Nix cant be refined, after 100+ nix isn't so bad anymore 1vs1 that is.

Psychic squishier then me why should I change? Yeah, they got white voodoo but are you really going to run around like that?

Assassin great for one vs one pk cant do jack other then that and no one really has a role for them in TW since being invisible = not killing anyone and being visible = dead melee LA since everyone can kill you without much of a problem.

Archers although a bit squishy are able to do a more then adequate job as long as they have a relatively high refined weapon +7 and up.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

It doesn't matter because unless you 1-shot them they will just put you to sleep and heal themselves. Plus stacked ironheart is hard to out DPS when they have Guardian Light on dude. That's the only time window you have between their 33 second sleep (with 40 second cooldown...) and in that window they are 60% harder to kill.

Have you fought competent clerics? And yes, I'm talking 1v1...

If you wanna call the clerics i fight fail, why dont you try to go against them? Oh wait...you would probably die in one hit.

Most clerics on DW have better gear than i do and like i said
undine strike > pyro > gush > stone rain spam is more than enough

P.S. when you use undine strike on a cleric they are screwed because if they try to purify it you reapply and if they leave it, they die. b:bye

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

you know I can't do that b:surrender

edit: Miz I didn't get any pm's from you.. maybe you were talking to someone else?

oh nvm that was Haiz. I tried today but you were offline b:sad

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you wanna call the clerics i fight fail, why dont you try to go against them? Oh wait...you would probably die in one hit.

Most clerics on DW have better gear than i do and like i said
undine strike > pyro > gush > stone rain spam is more than enough

P.S. when you use undine strike on a cleric they are screwed because if they try to purify it you reapply and if they leave it, they die. b:bye

oh nvm that was Haiz. I tried today but you were offline b:sad

ya i dont play atm.. I come on for TW and check the forums, but play bfbc2 most the time

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

Bloop - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes, we are gimped in a way. But who cares? It's what we can do in TW is what makes us amazing. Clerics are heal btchs, venos are purge and amp slaves and imo those jobs are not fun at all. But then again, you have yet to be in a real TW.

SMD Bloop, been in 3 hour TWs w/ Kylin Vs KD fail troll, you cant really say **** anyways coz the only time ive ever seen you in world pvp is when Nurfed was there to make you less of a target, I guess you've already figured out no point wizards doing world pvp because of the gank-fest.

1v1 anytime ****.

_Vivio_ - Sanctuary · April 2010

This thread has made the wizard section more lively then I've seen in a while. b:chuckle

Debuff rage!!!b:angryb:angry

Undine first and problem solved and the skill hits harder then @lvl 10 so I'm happy. b:cute

Bloop - Harshlands · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

SMD Bloop, been in 3 hour TWs w/ Kylin Vs KD fail troll, you cant really say **** anyways coz the only time ive ever seen you in world pvp is when Nurfed was there to make you less of a target, I guess you've already figured out no point wizards doing world pvp because of the gank-fest.

1v1 anytime ****.

I just don't have the time and money to make myself OP. I wish I did though then I could buy an mdef cube necklace, realize I'm a moron and still be able to cash shop a new one. And by the way, 50% chance to crit isn't "once a while".

You should really stick to mage cause rerolling a new class only to hyper it up to 100 in a week and not know anything about the class isn't going to make you better. Before you know it you'll be QQing on the other char subforums about how gimp it is.

See you in TW cutie.b:kiss

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you wanna call the clerics i fight fail, why dont you try to go against them? Oh wait...you would probably die in one hit.

Most clerics on DW have better gear than i do and like i said
undine strike > pyro > gush > stone rain spam is more than enough

P.S. when you use undine strike on a cleric they are screwed because if they try to purify it you reapply and if they leave it, they die. b:bye

How would I know their gear or anything? I never said they have crappy gear or are low-mid level. The only thing I said, is that they are not "competent" to use the best skills for the job. Undine has the upper hand in purify since cooldown is 1 sec, however, Guardian Light is better than Undine in this respect (well it costs a spark anyway) though it has a 5 minute cooldown. You can wait for it to wear off, but the cleric and just sleep you and run away then (hey he's not more of a coward than you are in this case).

All I'm saying is, kinda impossible to kill one without one-shotting him/her 1v1.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

How would I know their gear or anything? I never said they have crappy gear or are low-mid level. The only thing I said, is that they are not "competent" to use the best skills for the job. Undine has the upper hand in purify since cooldown is 1 sec, however, Guardian Light is better than Undine in this respect (well it costs a spark anyway) though it has a 5 minute cooldown. You can wait for it to wear off, but the cleric and just sleep you and run away then (hey he's not more of a coward than you are in this case).

All I'm saying is, kinda impossible to kill one without one-shotting him/her 1v1.

no, you are just a n00b

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

^this

Borsuc, sooo much wisdom out of a 69 wizard...impressive
/sarcasm.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

no, you are just a n00b

this^

ya, a cleric is totally gonna waste 1 spark to reduce damage for 10 seconds. Wait, my bad. You probably cant live against a cleric for longer than 10 seconds

kthxbaib:bye

Lyzzern - Lost City · April 2010

BWAHAHAHAHA Demon wins once again b:cool
Sage is all about the chipee and the ulties, not the nukes b:embarrass

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »

BWAHAHAHAHA Demon wins once again b:cool
Sage is all about the chipee and the ulties, not the nukes b:embarrass

no.

10char

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »

BWAHAHAHAHA Demon wins once again b:cool
Sage is all about the chipee and the ulties, not the nukes b:embarrass

*sigh*
lowbies..

MagicHamsta - Lost City · April 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

*sigh*
lowbies..

*sigh*
.....
o wait
yay me are still lowbie
^.^

and what the heck be a "chipee"?

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Cleric won't waste 1 spark for Guardian Light, what would he waste it for? Tempest on a mage? b:cute

Outline me what the CLERIC would do, or rather what the clerics you've fought have done. It's soooo easy to say you're good against them without revealing their tactics.

Maybe they just stay there and try to plume shot you while your Stone Barrier is up, am I right?

Show me some pro cleric tactics then, cause apparently Guardian Light is for noobs.

(remember the rule is, no one-shots, so no "I sleep them then BT and gg")

BrownflameZ - Lost City · April 2010

borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

cleric Won't Waste 1 Spark For Guardian Light, What Would He Waste It For? Tempest On A Mage? B:cute

Outline Me What The Cleric Would Do, Or Rather What The Clerics You've Fought Have Done. It's Soooo Easy To Say You're Good Against Them Without Revealing their Tactics.

Maybe They Just Stay There And Try To Plume Shot You While Your Stone Barrier Is Up, Am I Right?

Show Me Some Pro Cleric Tactics Then, Cause Apparently Guardian Light Is For Noobs.

(remember The Rule Is, No One-shots, So No "i Sleep Them Then Bt And Gg")

...... Lol.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cleric won't waste 1 spark for Guardian Light, what would he waste it for? Tempest on a mage? b:cute

Outline me what the CLERIC would do, or rather what the clerics you've fought have done. It's soooo easy to say you're good against them without revealing their tactics.

Maybe they just stay there and try to plume shot you while your Stone Barrier is up, am I right?

Show me some pro cleric tactics then, cause apparently Guardian Light is for noobs.

(remember the rule is, no one-shots, so no "I sleep them then BT and gg")

cleric use this thing call sleep, then they triple spark and use the strongest thing they got.

what cleric uses tempest on a wiz their level? It does what? not even charm tick damage.

most clerics heal themselves when they need to

i have never met a cleric who wasted a guardian light on a wiz because all i am going to do is kite it. Most clerics rather build up sparks to triple spark and do a super strong skill.

If you are a smart mage you know how to keep a cleric busy but obviously you let them do whatever they want.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Of course you are right... but what cleric sparks after you hit them with BT and got their health down?

Scenario was like this:

Seal cleric/Sleep, Undine possibly, BT

(note at this point not one-shotted)

yes they will sleep you next. Wait for their charm to cooldown (if they have, otherwise they heal themselves). Maybe they spark afterwards and hit you. But here's the thing. After you get out of sleep there's a 10 (actually 7 but heck) window until their sleep is cooled down.

That means you have 10 (or 7) seconds to kill him again all over again. Starting all over. All this time you take some hits from the cleric since you don't heal yourself with skills (he has the "first hit" this time, since you were asleep). If you are charmed, he may not be able to kill you either... BUT you simply can't kill him. 10 seconds is not enough on a charmed cleric that you don't one-shot with blade tempest.

I've seen on these forums, most wizards defend themselves that they can kill a lot of stuff with proper debuffs and genie skills (extreme poison for example). The thing they don't take into account is that, there are counters to these. Defensive skills, if you will. (Guardian Light being one of them, Wind Shield/Evil Ward for genies, etc -- not even factoring Absolute Domain or the likes)

I admit, not many people use them, especially in their genies. That doesn't change the theoretical outcome if one plays properly. Most people tend to be "offensive" so OF COURSE they die easily to mages. If you take a proper build with proper defensive skills and competent player it becomes simply hard to take down.

And I never said a cleric will use Tempest... that was supposed to be a joke suggestion (a "noob" one as an example).

I realize the scenario doesn't happen all the time. It's not feasible in TW to begin with. BUT I never claimed more than that. Just 1v1 (not duels, as in duels charm wont tick until the end)

oh actually I am wrong, forgot about crits. So yeah, you'll probably need a crit to bypass their ih+charm.

BTW most of what I said is theoretical and from what I read before. There was a thread about "clerics vs wizards" I think exactly about this. Most of what I said, is from cleric point of view (so I appreciate your but I still think it's too defensive). No I obviously haven't fought clerics with Guardian Light, since I'm not 79 yet so I don't have Undine either (and obviously fighting higher lvl doesn't make it a "legitimate" reason for the statement)

Either way a cleric is still a more defensive class than a wiz. Proper play is defensive, in this case. That's what makes them so hard to take down.

Bloop - Harshlands · April 2010

How about this: You're all wrong and this game wasn't created for "1v1's". Derp derp derp.

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Doesn't matter what it was created for. The statement is still the same. If you say "a lvl1 cant kill a lvl100" the statement is the same whether the game was intended for that or not.

Damn I wish this forum had a :P smiley.

Also as you can probably guess I'm not too fond of "invincible" (the quotes are for a reason) so don't say I'm not listening to (theoretical) advice.

Just wondering is Undine + Gush/Pyro/SR all that's needed to kill a cleric that spams ih and can sleep you when his health gets in danger (charm is in cooldown for example), as I've been told before? That's what I find unlikely -- and you said I'm wrong.

I doubt a cleric reading this will say "I'm doomed" that's all.

Maybe use BT to bypass their charm but then due to how long it is to cast they can sleep you. b:sad

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

cleric with fortify on to resist wiz sleep = invitation to get killed with 1 hit.

cleric with apothecary, faith or domain = wizard kiting with distance shrink.

easy?

Bloop - Harshlands · April 2010

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cleric with fortify on to resist wiz sleep = invitation to get killed with 1 hit.

cleric with apothecary, faith or domain = wizard kiting with distance shrink.

easy?

You must be the master at predicting things if you can tell when someone is going to cast a skill with almost no animation.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Doesn't matter what it was created for. The statement is still the same. If you say "a lvl1 cant kill a lvl100" the statement is the same whether the game was intended for that or not.

Damn I wish this forum had a :P smiley.

Also as you can probably guess I'm not too fond of "invincible" (the quotes are for a reason) so don't say I'm not listening to (theoretical) advice.

Just wondering is Undine + Gush/Pyro/SR all that's needed to kill a cleric that spams ih and can sleep you when his health gets in danger (charm is in cooldown for example), as I've been told before? That's what I find unlikely -- and you said I'm wrong.

I doubt a cleric reading this will say "I'm doomed" that's all.

Maybe use BT to bypass their charm but then due to how long it is to cast they can sleep you. b:sad

Theoretically a good cleric will keep plume shell up all the time 1v1ings a mage.
Theoretically they will sleep the mage when 1) they try casting BT and plume shell is down 2) they're about to die, 3) they're about to attempt bypassing the mages charm.
Theoretically if the mage simply cannot kill the cleric with gush, pyro, SR. They will try to do the same by bypassing with BT.
Theoretically there is still air to ground situations to account for as well as apothecary pots, expel, and absolute domain.

Now can we discuss something more interesting like 2 werebeasts or BMs 1v1ing? /sarcasm.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Bloop - Harshlands wrote: »

You must be the master at predicting things if you can tell when someone is going to cast a skill with almost no animation.
.

lol you didn't get it. the point is that the only trick a cleric can do to kill a wizard is to sleep which is 100% predictable. wizards have 5 different tricks to control a battle vs. a cleric: soporific sleep, FoW, MS, distance shrink and 30m range+sucessful hailstorm or pitfall. let the divination to the opponent!

Shadowvzs - Lost City · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cleric won't waste 1 spark for Guardian Light, what would he waste it for? Tempest on a mage? b:cute

Outline me what the CLERIC would do, or rather what the clerics you've fought have done. It's soooo easy to say you're good against them without revealing their tactics.

Maybe they just stay there and try to plume shot you while your Stone Barrier is up, am I right?

Show me some pro cleric tactics then, cause apparently Guardian Light is for noobs.

(remember the rule is, no one-shots, so no "I sleep them then BT and gg")

(they use sometimes the guardian light but the facts 5min cooldown a bit long)

what cleric uses tempest on a wiz their level? It does what? not even charm tick damage.

if u think tempest is very sucks then its fail info(exclude if u are buffed and got enough refine or hp buff, 3rd spark + tempest still hurt), a lv11 tempest combined with good debuffs still hurt on u, with noticeable dmg. (if u got 4-5k hp and u are unbudde 9x still u could be 1 hit by tempest )

u cant 1hit a 9x cleric with simple sleep+bt (maybe u mean spark burst+spark pot+bt)

Theoretically a good cleric will keep plume shell up all the time 1v1ings a mage.

alot fast leveler cleric think the plume shell work against magic too XD its just chi waste cause a full buffed cleric cant die from simple bt (maybe if u crit and cleric is pure mag with lower refine)

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

@Shadowvzs - not every cleric can take a BT.. I hit most clerics in the ballpark of 5k non crit (with poison and undine) Obviously this varies alot based on pdef etc, but there are lots of bad clerics out there you can run around and one shot. Obviously any decent one will have way more than 5k hp, but you get the idea xD

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Of course you are right... but what cleric sparks after you hit them with BT and got their health down?

Scenario was like this:

Seal cleric/Sleep, Undine possibly, BT

(note at this point not one-shotted)

yes they will sleep you next. Wait for their charm to cooldown (if they have, otherwise they heal themselves). Maybe they spark afterwards and hit you. But here's the thing. After you get out of sleep there's a 10 (actually 7 but heck) window until their sleep is cooled down.

That means you have 10 (or 7) seconds to kill him again all over again. Starting all over. All this time you take some hits from the cleric since you don't heal yourself with skills (he has the "first hit" this time, since you were asleep). If you are charmed, he may not be able to kill you either... BUT you simply can't kill him. 10 seconds is not enough on a charmed cleric that you don't one-shot with blade tempest.

I've seen on these forums, most wizards defend themselves that they can kill a lot of stuff with proper debuffs and genie skills (extreme poison for example). The thing they don't take into account is that, there are counters to these. Defensive skills, if you will. (Guardian Light being one of them, Wind Shield/Evil Ward for genies, etc -- not even factoring Absolute Domain or the likes)

I admit, not many people use them, especially in their genies. That doesn't change the theoretical outcome if one plays properly. Most people tend to be "offensive" so OF COURSE they die easily to mages. If you take a proper build with proper defensive skills and competent player it becomes simply hard to take down.

And I never said a cleric will use Tempest... that was supposed to be a joke suggestion (a "noob" one as an example).

I realize the scenario doesn't happen all the time. It's not feasible in TW to begin with. BUT I never claimed more than that. Just 1v1 (not duels, as in duels charm wont tick until the end)

oh actually I am wrong, forgot about crits. So yeah, you'll probably need a crit to bypass their ih+charm.

BTW most of what I said is theoretical and from what I read before. There was a thread about "clerics vs wizards" I think exactly about this. Most of what I said, is from cleric point of view (so I appreciate your but I still think it's too defensive). No I obviously haven't fought clerics with Guardian Light, since I'm not 79 yet so I don't have Undine either (and obviously fighting higher lvl doesn't make it a "legitimate" reason for the statement)

Either way a cleric is still a more defensive class than a wiz. Proper play is defensive, in this case. That's what makes them so hard to take down.

i forgot another thing.

get them close to 50% > sleep > BT > gg
you can kill a cleric without one shotting them. Its possible

Nyxya - Harshlands · April 2010

tarlor problem is that you sux in pkb:laughb:chuckle
i fought many wizzy and clerics lvl 100 with good to goodly eq and from all u died the easiest for once cause u got like 0 awareness of what's going on... u just aim and shot ..and die...and start curse like a cheap ore...
yea i got domain..yea i got bramble...yea i got pk pots...but with out those even at 6300 hp unbuff i can be 1 hit... so get your things straight up and and learn to pk cause have 5000$ equipment isn't just enoughb:cute

Arma_Geddon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

^ I just got stupider from reading the above post. That is all.

TrueJustice - Harshlands · April 2010

Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »

tarlor problem is that you sux in pkb:laughb:chuckle
i fought many wizzy and clerics lvl 100 with good to goodly eq and from all u died the easiest for once cause u got like 0 awareness of what's going on... u just aim and shot ..and die...and start curse like a cheap ore...
yea i got domain..yea i got bramble...yea i got pk pots...but with out those even at 6300 hp unbuff i can be 1 hit... so get your things straight up and and learn to pk cause have 5000$ equipment isn't just enoughb:cute

Oh Lord nyxya, my hero, my pvp god. bought nix and leveled to 101
Aren't you that guy who kos'ed like all factions on harshlands?
You cried so much because you got killed even by non rpk factions because you were red.
Like we care about your kos...
I killed you once (you rpk'ed in swamps) and you kos'ed my pve faction for about 2-3 weeks because I didn't give you a guardian angel xD Grow up, seriously man.

Undine Strike stacks with?

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