Demon spark question

XWizz - Lost City
XWizz - Lost City Posts: 24 Arc User
edited April 2010 in Assassin
If i wanna use demon spark to hit 5 aps, what would my base attack speed have to be? and how much time is actually spent attacking during a demon spark?
Thanks in advanceb:victory
Reasons to be an Assassin - Invisibility...and the additional benefit of doing damage that should be illegal.
Post edited by XWizz - Lost City on

Comments

  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    XWizz - Lost City wrote: »
    If i wanna use demon spark to hit 5 aps, what would my base attack speed have to be? and how much time is actually spent attacking during a demon spark?
    Thanks in advanceb:victory



    3.33 APS or 0.3 interval

    12 seconds of real attack time. lasts 15 seconds but 3 are used up in invincibility
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Deathiris - Sanctuary
    Deathiris - Sanctuary Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    3.333 base

    15 seconds pretty sure, even though the skill says 15 seconds and 3 seconds of invulnerability its 18 seconds of buff 15 seconds to attack.

    4.0 aps --> 20 chi/sec x 15 seconds = 300 chi perma spark n_n

    some ppl saying demon spark speed might b change though b:shocked, sry I can't list any support for this.

    edit: when my archer was 4.0 sparked I could perma spark which doesnt make much sense if it was only 12 seconds of attack time.

    sin got ninjad by a wizzy =.=;;
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Deathiris you has been ninja'd
    b:avoid
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Deathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »
    3.333 base

    15 seconds pretty sure, even though the skill says 15 seconds and 3 seconds of invulnerability its 18 seconds of buff 15 seconds to attack.

    4.0 aps --> 20 chi/sec x 15 seconds = 300 chi perma spark n_n

    some ppl saying demon spark speed might b change though b:shocked, sry I can't list any support for this.

    edit: when my archer was 4.0 sparked I could perma spark which doesnt make much sense if it was only 12 seconds of attack time.

    it's been confirmed the CN servers have had demon sparks attack speed boost removed. it will likely come here soon

    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Deathiris you has been ninja'd
    b:avoid

    BOOO!!!!
    Deathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »
    3.333 base

    15 seconds pretty sure, even though the skill says 15 seconds and 3 seconds of invulnerability its 18 seconds of buff 15 seconds to attack.

    4.0 aps --> 20 chi/sec x 15 seconds = 300 chi perma spark n_n

    some ppl saying demon spark speed might b change though b:shocked, sry I can't list any support for this.

    edit: when my archer was 4.0 sparked I could perma spark which doesnt make much sense if it was only 12 seconds of attack time.

    sin got ninjad by a wizzy =.=;;

    i've pretty much made this area my home since sin's were made. i also play a sin almost exclusively i just dont bother changing my avatar.

    ...i'll go ahead and time a triple spark and re-edit this again with my findings
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Deathiris - Sanctuary
    Deathiris - Sanctuary Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    it's been confirmed the CN servers have had demon sparks attack speed boost removed. it will likely come here soon

    wow REMOVED?!?! uhm... I was reading that it would only be 20% instead of 25% w/ 550% dmg instead of 500% are you sure speed was just plain removed? Cause damn demon spark would just suck then and so would any DPS built characters, sage would be so much better too bad cant switch .... o wait convenient Cash shop culti changing stones and the sudden need to relearn all these skills not to mention the 100,000,000's coins in interval gear (mainly tome =.=) hm... [sorry for the premature Q_Q, no not really if it happens -.-]
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Deathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wow REMOVED?!?! uhm... I was reading that it would only be 20% instead of 25% w/ 550% dmg instead of 500% are you sure speed was just plain removed? Cause damn demon spark would just suck then and so would any DPS built characters, sage would be so much better too bad cant switch .... o wait convenient Cash shop culti changing stones and the sudden need to relearn all these skills not to mention the 100,000,000's coins in interval gear (mainly tome =.=) hm... [sorry for the premature Q_Q, no not really if it happens -.-]

    we wont really know until they do it here i guess. i was told it was removed with no change to damage. it could be that was the initial case then they tweaked it

    on the note of triple spark, i just did it 3 times and it lasted 16 seconds twice and 17 once. it could be lag causing a difference in time but it seems its really 15 total


    on another note, if demon spark is changed to 20%, you will need 4.0 APS to reach 5.0 as 3.33 will likely round down to 4.0. the ability to reach 5.0 was the main decision in my going to chose demon over sage. both have really great skills in their line but then i realized i could do what i've been doing to kill things right now: 2 spark and pop relentless courage (90 str genie makes it 27%, better than a demon spark minus the lesser damage ofc) i could do this with sage spark and get the boost to damage, speed, and a nice reduction in damage taken at the cost of only being able to get the speed every 30 seconds.... we'll see
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    we wont really know until they do it here i guess. i was told it was removed with no change to damage. it could be that was the initial case then they tweaked it

    on the note of triple spark, i just did it 3 times and it lasted 16 seconds twice and 17 once. it could be lag causing a difference in time but it seems its really 15 total


    on another note, if demon spark is changed to 20%, you will need 4.0 APS to reach 5.0 as 3.33 will likely round down to 4.0. the ability to reach 5.0 was the main decision in my going to chose demon over sage. both have really great skills in their line but then i realized i could do what i've been doing to kill things right now: 2 spark and pop relentless courage (90 str genie makes it 27%, better than a demon spark minus the lesser damage ofc) i could do this with sage spark and get the boost to damage, speed, and a nice reduction in damage taken at the cost of only being able to get the speed every 30 seconds.... we'll see

    then how changeing the casters sage/demon spark burst?b:shocked
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    XWizz - Lost City wrote: »
    If i wanna use demon spark to hit 5 aps, what would my base attack speed have to be? and how much time is actually spent attacking during a demon spark?
    Thanks in advanceb:victory
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    3.33 APS or 0.3 interval

    12 seconds of real attack time. lasts 15 seconds but 3 are used up in invincibility

    You do get a full 15 secs of attack time after the 3 sec of invincibility/spark animation. So all you actually need is 4 aps to reach perma spark if you are a class that can gain 5 chi per attack. Also, you need to stack a total of 0.35 interval reduction gears to have 4 attacks/sec sparked.

    Just found the thread regarding this topic:
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=687942&highlight=perma+spark

    Sorry, that is for fists...for daggers is something else - let me check...
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You do get a full 15 secs of attack time after the 3 sec of invincibility/spark animation. So all you actually need is 4 aps to reach perma spark if you are a class that can gain 5 chi per attack. Also, you need to stack a total of 0.35 interval reduction gears to have 4 attacks/sec sparked.

    Just found the thread regarding this topic:
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=687942&highlight=perma+spark

    Sorry, that is for fists...for daggers is something else - let me check...

    for daggers add another .1
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    for daggers add another .1

    Thanks :D

    Daggers attack speed is 1.25/sec = 0.8 sec/attack
    So you need to stack in total of at least - 0.45 attack interval...(the game rounds it up to 0.5)
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps (that's the base attack that you will need)
    with demon spark you can then get 4 aps
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thanks :D

    Daggers attack speed is 1.25/sec = 0.8 sec/attack
    So you need to stack in total of at least - 0.45 attack interval...(the game rounds it up to 0.5)
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps (that's the base attack that you will need)
    with demon spark you can then get 4 aps

    with the "CURRENT" demon spark 3.33 will take you to 5 APS

    if the one Deathiris posted is what we soon get you will get 4 APS and need 4 APS to reach 5 APS
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    with the "CURRENT" demon spark 3.33 will take you to 5 APS

    if the one Deathiris posted is what we soon get you will get 4 APS and need 4 APS to reach 5 APS

    Without sparking using daggers and stacking -0.45 interval:
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps

    It has been tested and verified that the two genie skills:
    - Relentless courage increases attack speed by a percentage.
    - Windshield increases it by a small interval reduction.

    For demon sparking I am not sure since some skill descriptions don't mean what it says, but calculating it both ways still won't give you 5 aps.

    Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through interval reduction
    Current demon spark give 25% increased in attack rate
    attack duration of 0.3 sec/attk is decreased by 25%
    0.3 - (0.3x0.25) = 0.225 -> 4.44 aps (I don't think that is easily rounded to 5)

    Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through % (as its skill description suggests)
    If you apply the 25% increase in attack rate to the 3.33 aps directly:
    3.33+ (3.33x0.25) = 4.16 aps (which isn't even close to 5 aps)

    If you still think with the current demon spark (25%+) and having a base attack rate of 3.33 still gives 5 aps sparked and not 4 aps, please provide some calcs to prove it. Going from a base attack of 3.33 to a full 5, that's a 50% increased in attack rate from just looking at it, not 25%.
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Without sparking using daggers and stacking -0.45 interval:
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps

    It has been tested and verified that the two genie skills:
    - Relentless courage increases attack speed by a percentage.
    - Windshield increases it by a small interval reduction.

    For demon sparking I am not sure since some skill descriptions don't mean what it says, but calculating it both ways still won't give you 5 aps.

    Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through interval reduction
    Current demon spark give 25% increased in attack rate
    attack duration of 0.3 sec/attk is decreased by 25%
    0.3 - (0.3x0.25) = 0.225 -> 4.44 aps (I don't think that is easily rounded to 5)

    Applying demon spark's increased in attk rate through % (as its skill description suggests)
    If you apply the 25% increase in attack rate to the 3.33 aps directly:
    3.33+ (3.33x0.25) = 4.16 aps (which isn't even close to 5 aps)

    If you still think with the current demon spark (25%+) and having a base attack rate of 3.33 still gives 5 aps sparked and not 4 aps, please provide some calcs to prove it. Going from a base attack of 3.33 to a full 5, that's a 50% increased in attack rate from just looking at it, not 25%.

    Try asking this in the lost city forum. the BM's on this server with 3.33 APS Fists demon spark and reach 5 APS. my sin is only 86 so i cant wear all the gear yet to check myself.

    the correct way to figure it is to take the interval (.3) and multiplying it by .75 (=.225)
    then divide 1 by that number (4.44). somehow they round that to 5 rather than down to 4

    if the change is made to 20% it will likely round down to 4 (probably the reason they are doing this) since that number will be 4.16
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Just checked, it is 5 aps with a base of 3.33 aps. The game actually rounds the number/attack duration before arriving to the final number since interval blocks is applied only as 0.05. So 0.225 is rounded down to 2 before dividing it to get 5.
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Without sparking using daggers and stacking -0.45 interval:
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps

    ...


    -0.45 interval will not round to -0.5 interval as it sits nicely on a 0.05 interval block.

    0.8-0.45 = 0.35 interval block = 2.86a/s

    You need a total of -0.5 interval to reach permaspark as an assassin.

    0.8-0.5 = 0.30 interval block = 3.33a/s

    Demon spark at 25% means

    (0.3*(1-0.25)) = 0.225 interval block

    Round down when value sits on exactly half. Only possible lower interval block from rounding is 0.2 = 5a/s
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    So then, for fist users the only way you can achieve 3.33 aps is to have 0.4 and not 0.35 of interval?

    (0.3*(1-0.25)) = 0.3 - (0.3x0.25) :D
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You actually first get permaspark at 4 attacks/sec.

    Demon spark lasts for 15s after discharge.. 15s * 4attacks/s * 5chi/attack = 300 chi

    You only need 0.35 interval to have 4attacks/sec sparked.
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So then, for fist users the only way you can achieve 3.33 aps is to have 0.4 and not 0.35 of interval?

    (0.3*(1-0.25)) = 0.3 - (0.3x0.25) :D

    Asterelle is right that the breakpoint is 4a/s. But that is a theoretical figure and any amount of latency will not allow you to permaspark. Besides that extra -0.05 makes you go from 4a/s -> 5a/s.

    3.33a/s unsparked is what anyone should try to achieve for 5a/s demon sparked.

    What I meant though is if you have -0.45interval, it does not round to -0.50 interval like you mentioned in a previous post.
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thanks :D

    Daggers attack speed is 1.25/sec = 0.8 sec/attack
    So you need to stack in total of at least - 0.45 attack interval...(the game rounds it up to 0.5)
    0.8-0.5 = 0.3 -> 3.33 aps (that's the base attack that you will need)
    with demon spark you can then get 4 aps
  • Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver
    Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I was under the impression that you needed .25 (4 APS) Attack Duration + Demon Spark to reach 5 APS. In the fact that 4 * 25% = 1, so then 4 + 1 = 5. I'm probably not savvy with all the mechanics of the -interval system in PWI, but from what I do know of math you need 4 APS + Demon Spark to reach 5 APS.
    Kuroi_Sin
    The Holy Black Assassin
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

    the correct way to figure it is to take the interval (.3) and multiplying it by .75 (=.225)
    then divide 1 by that number (4.44). somehow they round that to 5 rather than down to 4

    You don't convert it to aps then round, you round the interval after applying 25% reduction then convert to aps.
    Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I was under the impression that you needed .25 (4 APS) Attack Duration + Demon Spark to reach 5 APS. In the fact that 4 * 25% = 1, so then 4 + 1 = 5. I'm probably not savvy with all the mechanics of the -interval system in PWI, but from what I do know of math you need 4 APS + Demon Spark to reach 5 APS.

    It's not a direct increase of attack speed by 25% but a 25% reduction in your interval between attacks then that's rounded to the nearest interval.

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