Undine Strike stacks with?

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

does Undine Strike debuff and Sage Glacial Snare / Divine Pyro debuff stack? It doesnt seem to work for me? b:sad

Dont tell me they ripped us wizzies off AGAIN? b:angry

Paimage - Harshlands · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

does Undine Strike debuff and Sage Glacial Snare / Divine Pyro debuff stack? It doesnt seem to work for me? b:sad

Dont tell me they ripped us wizzies off AGAIN? b:angry

They dont stack lol

MagicHamsta - Lost City · April 2010

b:shedtear
(weird lols our levels be going down but our post counts be going up)
O_o'
Tarrloor - 100/343
Paimage- 99/588
Magichamsta - 89/......me broke teh scouter

Munsu - Lost City · April 2010

undine stacks with spark quite well.

Watter - Lost City · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

does Undine Strike debuff and Sage Glacial Snare / Divine Pyro debuff stack? It doesnt seem to work for me? b:sad

Dont tell me they ripped us wizzies off AGAIN? b:angry

>.>'
another thread bout this...
remember: search is your friend ;D
lol

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

How am I supposed to use a tedious search mechanism when I'm in need of RAGING! Noob!!

I cashshop my **** off to get 330 of their stupid advanced pages, spend 1,500,000 of my coin and spirit on this "upgrade" only to find out I now shouldnt use the skill with any sort of undine combo? STOP BETRAYING MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Seriously wtf is wrong with PWI? Why not give the skill a different bonus, it could be "has 10% chance to cause pumpkin head effect" and I'd like it more than its current "bonus." This is dumb, stupid, pathetic, moronic and cynical to think this skill works with any wizards playing style.

**** you PWI, **** you. b:angry

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Sages are supposed to be super intelligent and carefully research everything to find out their capabilities.

Demons just go for stuff they want.

b:chuckle

Talk to me when u reach that place in time.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

Talk to me when u reach that place in time.

don't be arrogant while asking for help. makes you look like a hopeless noob.

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

don't be arrogant while asking for help. makes you look like a hopeless noob.

What?! I got the answers I was after and the ***** was condescending in her response, so ****. b:angry

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · April 2010

I have another idea. They should improve skills. Example. If you had 3 books of GS, it could be transformed to more powerful GS book. With more damage and water reduction. Then If you had 3 of these book it could be transformed again for another more powerful GS book etc. It should be allowed for all spells.b:victory

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

I guess they'll do that when the level cap is raised, or something similar, but it still doesnt change the fact wizards suck, barely anyone plays them because they suck so much, and PWI does ignorant stuff like give useless "upgrades" to our skills.

If the debuff conflicted with another classes debuff, that'd be understandable, but for it to conflict with our own debuff? Its just PLAIN STUPID.

Its seriously a case of "I've worked tirelessly to refine my spiritual enlightenment to perfect my craft, and finally have made the ingredients to perfect my spell and... ooops... its broken."

Seriously, if I'd spent the $$$ I have on any other class in game I'd have a better character. woo-fricken-hooo i can do 15k dmg once a blue moon, oh but wait any dumbass can see that coming and genie skill/TW pot against it anyways.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Linwiz - Lost City · April 2010

Well, Im just gonna put this out there

if you use undine first it doesnt get overwriten

/thread

xarathos · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

I guess they'll do that when the level cap is raised, or something similar, but it still doesnt change the fact wizards suck, barely anyone plays them because they suck so much, and PWI does ignorant stuff like give useless "upgrades" to our skills.

If the debuff conflicted with another classes debuff, that'd be understandable, but for it to conflict with our own debuff? Its just PLAIN STUPID.

Its seriously a case of "I've worked tirelessly to refine my spiritual enlightenment to perfect my craft, and finally have made the ingredients to perfect my spell and... ooops... its broken."

Seriously, if I'd spent the $$$ I have on any other class in game I'd have a better character. woo-fricken-hooo i can do 15k dmg once a blue moon, oh but wait any dumbass can see that coming and genie skill/TW pot against it anyways.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

lol you just fail as wiz go quit pls xD
a lvl 100 whos qqing bout 1,5mil ..kinda fail
qqing about facts i alrdy know as a wiz who not even reached 80 lmao
ya wiz is soooooooooooooo underpowdered LMAO
i heard you suck at pvp.. so i dont even ask why you wrote this fail post

Bloop - Harshlands · April 2010

Cause uhh.. an 80% reduction is totally fair, right? Besides you upgrade GS and Divine pyro for the damage, not the bonus effect.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

Well, Im just gonna put this out there

if you use undine first it doesnt get overwriten

/thread

basically this, whichever debuff is used first will stay. So for example, if you were to undine -> glacial snare, undine's 60% debuff would affect the damage calculation. On the other hand, if you were to glacial snare, then undine -> gush, only the 20% reduction from GS would work. Same principle where if you undine and wait 8 seconds and then undine again (before the first debuff disappears) the second undine will basically do nothing.. the target will lose the debuff 12 seconds after it was undine'd the first time.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

does Undine Strike debuff and Sage Glacial Snare / Divine Pyro debuff stack? It doesnt seem to work for me? b:sad

Dont tell me they ripped us wizzies off AGAIN? b:angry

ouch, that's a fail that hurts.b:chuckle.

But really....Sutra-undine-GS/DP-BIDS/BT. Don't you think that's just a little bit overpowered against pretty much anything that moves around? Stack that with Poison and you basically hit like on a LvL1 mob (well 25% of it, but still, that would mean my gush will do 5k in PvP, regardless of class)?

I agree, there is no mention of a debuff stack, but not knowing this, and CS-ing for something not confirmed or without asking here is reckless to say the least.

These debuffs should stack, but ad-literam. Not from original def value as you expected, but from the magic resistance that the opponent has at that moment.
E.g:
10k magic resistance
- Undine- 60% - 4k left. - 58% dmg reduction
- DP/GS debuff- 20% of 4k = 3.2k mag res left.
Now that I admit would be nice and dangerous for any class. But the game mechanics don't work like that.
But you expected something like:
10k magic resistance
- undine- 4k left
- DP/GS- 2 k left (20% out of 10k)
That would leave 2k magic resistance for a buffed robe at 95+...which is pretty much nothing. Not that 3.2k makes a big diff, but 2000mdef/pdef resistance is about 41% reduction and 3.2k is 53% reduction. 12% dmg reduction is a big deal, big enough for the devs to consider not stacking those two debufs

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ouch, that's a fail that hurts.b:chuckle.

But really....Sutra-undine-GS/DP-BIDS/BT. Don't you think that's just a little bit overpowered against pretty much anything that moves around? Stack that with Poison and you basically hit like on a LvL1 mob (well 25% of it, but still, that would mean my gush will do 5k in PvP, regardless of class)?

I agree, there is no mention of a debuff stack, but not knowing this, and CS-ing for something not confirmed or without asking here is reckless to say the least.

These debuffs should stack, but ad-literam. Not from original def value as you expected, but from the magic resistance that the opponent has at that moment.
E.g:
10k magic resistance
- Undine- 60% - 4k left. - 58% dmg reduction
- DP/GS debuff- 20% of 4k = 3.2k mag res left.
Now that I admit would be nice and dangerous for any class. But the game mechanics don't work like that.
But you expected something like:
10k magic resistance
- undine- 4k left
- DP/GS- 2 k left (20% out of 10k)
That would leave 2k magic resistance for a buffed robe at 95+...which is pretty much nothing. Not that 3.2k makes a big diff, but 2000mdef/pdef resistance is about 41% reduction and 3.2k is 53% reduction. 12% dmg reduction is a big deal, big enough for the devs to consider not stacking those two debufs

u think morrow'd BMs dont ever hit 10k magic def?

u think any player adept at pvp lets a wizard pull off these dream sutras in a real fight?

I see alot of PvE server ppl acting like wiz's r fine, not many PvP server wizards ranting about how OP we are....

To be honest im about to reroll a nix veno with my current gear and go from there, its just rediculous how many wizards defend the class that realisticly get screwed over the most.

Think of the other arcane classes:
Cleric: 15-17sec sleep, they can cast debuffs, cpark, go for a smoke before they hit you
Veno: Bramble Hood will save them from gank long enuff for them to kite and send nix.
Wizard: 4 second immobailze, with good channel u get ur 6 second stun spell off, assuming not being ganked (which we always are) and stunned, fortify doesnt even work long enuff to coverwhole cast time unless 40% channel reduction or more.

Yes i would be happy for 20% reduction on left over mag res after undine, thats fine, atleast its some form of stack, what im saying is its a USELESS skill bonus and affects two of our better skills.

Also consider how nerfed wizards are when we have to pvp against others with people not in our squad and not in our guild, all of our ultis are aoe, so we are nerfed of that unless we want to kill out allies.

Chant and praise our occasional massive dmg all u want, fact is wizards are built for fail in this game by being made the easiest to kill and the most attractive first target class, its just not balanced.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

I never said this game is ballanced.
Can't be, never will be.
Roll a nix veno, get it to 90+ and figure out you basically have nothing to do.

and dream sutras? Sutra-seal-DP-MS/BIDS/BT should be always ready for a wizard unless someting terrible happened.

And really, now you want cleric control skills mixed with wizard fire-power?

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And really, now you want cleric control skills mixed with wizard fire-power?

Clerics have good firepower, just look at their damaging skills. Tempest is only slightly weaker than BIDS but other than that their skills are good.

At least if you compare our slow healing with THEIR healing, their damaging skills are in NO WAY as nerfed compared to our healing is to theirs. Not to mention their control skills.

If a wizard can't one-shot a cleric, he will never be able to kill him. If you take the PvP reduction into account, Crown of Flame is complete **** compared to Ironheart (one damages over time, the other heals), and stacking it may be the only way you could kill it, but it has long cooldown and pathetic damage. Because, frankly, there's no wizard spell fast enough to do enough damage to outdamage stacked Ironheart in healing. (of course without sutra, cause clerics have a 60% reduction 1 spark skill too)

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

undine+posion+BIDS crits enough to kill a very good geared cleric. At least mine crits for about 9.5k. Not many of them have that much HP, even barb buffed.
BT does enough dmg to bypass a charm. Sleep and seal can give you help.
Hard to kill? yes, very, unless u time well your skills. But they are far from invincible.

Paimage - Harshlands · April 2010

Clerics are super hard to kill 1v1 and if they are slightly better geared then yourself your chances to win decrease from 40% to around 20% >.> Although clerics are only that hard to kill if they are good at it and not alot of clerics know how to play their class correctly and same goes for wizards.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Clerics have good firepower, just look at their damaging skills. Tempest is only slightly weaker than BIDS but other than that their skills are good.

At least if you compare our slow healing with THEIR healing, their damaging skills are in NO WAY as nerfed compared to our healing is to theirs. Not to mention their control skills.

If a wizard can't one-shot a cleric, he will never be able to kill him. If you take the PvP reduction into account, Crown of Flame is complete **** compared to Ironheart (one damages over time, the other heals), and stacking it may be the only way you could kill it, but it has long cooldown and pathetic damage. Because, frankly, there's no wizard spell fast enough to do enough damage to outdamage stacked Ironheart in healing. (of course without sutra, cause clerics have a 60% reduction 1 spark skill too)

wtf are you talking about. There are many clerics i cant one shot who i can kill with a little pyro > gush > stone rain spam.

WTF i rarely use CoF, i use pitfall as a quick damage finisher but never CoF.

W...T...F
pyro > gush > stone rain out DPS ironheart pretty easily
especially if you add in a undine strike, the cleric is sitting their healing him/herself and having a ton a trouble.

and at Taarloor or however you spell it

Ya wizards really suck

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

miz ur dmg sucks b:shocked
imo 100k+ or nonfactor.. ijs

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2010

lol, stop rubbing it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

miz ur dmg sucks b:shocked
imo 100k+ or nonfactor.. ijs

b:cryi wont believe it until Haiz or Amour tells me!!!!!

b:scorn just wait until im 100

sage BIDS in the bank b:cute

P.S. ANSWER MEEEE WHEN I PM YOU!

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol, stop rubbing it.

you know I can't do that b:surrender

edit: Miz I didn't get any pm's from you.. maybe you were talking to someone else?

Borsuc - Raging Tide · April 2010

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wtf are you talking about. There are many clerics i cant one shot who i can kill with a little pyro > gush > stone rain spam.

WTF i rarely use CoF, i use pitfall as a quick damage finisher but never CoF.

W...T...F
pyro > gush > stone rain out DPS ironheart pretty easily
especially if you add in a undine strike, the cleric is sitting their healing him/herself and having a ton a trouble.

and at Taarloor or however you spell it

Ya wizards really suck

It doesn't matter because unless you 1-shot them they will just put you to sleep and heal themselves. Plus stacked ironheart is hard to out DPS when they have Guardian Light on dude. That's the only time window you have between their 33 second sleep (with 40 second cooldown...) and in that window they are 60% harder to kill.

Have you fought competent clerics? And yes, I'm talking 1v1...

Shadowvzs - Lost City · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

It doesn't matter because unless you 1-shot them they will just put you to sleep and heal themselves. Plus stacked ironheart is hard to out DPS when they have Guardian Light on dude. That's the only time window you have between their 33 second sleep (with 40 second cooldown...) and in that window they are 60% harder to kill.

Have you fought competent clerics? And yes, I'm talking 1v1...

cleric sleep have random duration and the 34 sec is a maximum value...here i think the pw ms and my description better http://ecatomb.net/skillpwms.php

whatever this time mostly enough for spark burst+debuff and during/before next hit reach u, u will wake up

(of course without sutra, cause clerics have a 60% reduction 1 spark skill too)

5min cooldown and in 6min u can build up 399 chi from 1 :P

about comapreing the cleric and wizz,CoF vs ThunderBall better ideea. true cleric got mroe defensive skill but what his job? not keeping alive the squad? debuff+demon Spirit's Gift still a bit less bonus than udine.

(hehe i heard many cleric who rerolled from pure con build cause they qq-ed about their dmg too **** in pvp)

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

It doesn't matter because unless you 1-shot them they will just put you to sleep and heal themselves. Plus stacked ironheart is hard to out DPS when they have Guardian Light on dude. That's the only time window you have between their 33 second sleep (with 40 second cooldown...) and in that window they are 60% harder to kill.

Have you fought competent clerics? And yes, I'm talking 1v1...

if they are spam healing themselves they will never kill you. Now a cleric could maybe ironheart then atk and ironheart every 3 or 4 attacks, but that isn't too tough to out DD. Most clerics that just stand there and spam heal themselves I just one shot, but if they are really well geared, there are other alternatives. The most obvious would be to stand there and laugh while they waste mana, they aren't ever going to kill you by ironhearting themselves.. and when they start attacking their ironhearts will begin to wear off. It is also possible to stop them from ironhearting for a good 15 seconds or more where their stacked ironhearts will run out. FoW -> sleep -> MS -> (expel if you have it) -> FoW again -> MS again etc can last a long time.

Clerics really aren't that hard to kill.. I just wait for a break in their healing (they can't heal themselves forever if they plan on killing you) and then get them to just over 50% and ulti (obviously need to sleep or FoW before the ulti, or I've found sutra -> ele shell -> ulti goes so fast that most people can't react, or ofc no channeling pot -> ulti has the same effect)

Taarloor - Harshlands · April 2010

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I never said this game is ballanced.
Can't be, never will be.
Roll a nix veno, get it to 90+ and figure out you basically have nothing to do.

and dream sutras? Sutra-seal-DP-MS/BIDS/BT should be always ready for a wizard unless someting terrible happened.

And really, now you want cleric control skills mixed with wizard fire-power?

Dont put words in my mouth...

Never said wizards should have those skills. b:angry

I was simply demonstrating how ripped off wizards are in the scheme of magic users, I fully dont give a **** if your BIDS can crit 9k on a cleric, I know a cleric who can crit 12k on a lvl 100 cleric, plus he can spam heal himself, cast a 17 second sleep, use multiple debuffs, and the rest of those good things wizards cant do.

Why even defend wizards on tyhe basis of a crit ulti? A friggin 10-15% chance to one shot is really worth the zero survivability to you? And you think its fine and dandy they give wizards debuffs that dont work together?

You sound like a non-factor who doesnt get ganked every time they show up to a fight. ijs.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2010

Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »

Dont put words in my mouth...

Never said wizards should have those skills. b:angry

I was simply demonstrating how ripped off wizards are in the scheme of magic users, I fully dont give a **** if your BIDS can crit 9k on a cleric, I know a cleric who can crit 12k on a lvl 100 cleric, plus he can spam heal himself, cast a 17 second sleep, use multiple debuffs, and the rest of those good things wizards cant do.

Why even defend wizards on tyhe basis of a crit ulti? A friggin 10-15% chance to one shot is really worth the zero survivability to you? And you think its fine and dandy they give wizards debuffs that dont work together?

You sound like a non-factor who doesnt get ganked every time they show up to a fight. ijs.

wizards have undine, so will out DD an equally geared cleric.. stone barrier and blink are amazing to help with survivablity. Half the time sage BIDS will have a 40+% chance to crit. Wizards are not underpowered at all, you just don't know how to play the class.

Undine Strike stacks with?

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