Archers DO NOT suck

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · April 2010

I don't say they suck but why is it that they have less survivability then say a BM or Barb as I went pure?I die a lot more on my archer then any of the classes in my sig.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't say they suck but why is it that they have less survivability then say a BM or Barb as I went pure?I die a lot more on my archer then any of the classes in my sig.

Same with my archer lol... b:cry Archers have less survivability techniques than even... physics? But BMs and barbs are meant to have one of the tops survivability. You can't compare to a class suited for survivability.

I played as my archer toon again... in BH29 farming spirit and giving away exp... but wow I died like 5 times in a row... And thats only BHI b:sad . I had to tank though @.@, it was me, cleric and assassin. At the entrance, managed to kill a mob but died with him because the other 2 mobs killed me x.x. The assassin wasn't really doing anything to protect the cleric... and quite frankly she haven't died once. Next time I died was them ranged wraithflames together. So yeah, I died really fast. So when I got to Qingzi, I managed to tank him ok. I was thinking Qingzi would one shot me, the assassin died a couple times from Qingzi, then he started using a bow XD.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · April 2010

do you all suck or have major major long lags since u die so much? I've not died on archer since 3x cos a wipe in BH29 at quinzi.

i find it VERY easy to survive rofl. and yes its pure dex.

archer 69 atm. soon 70.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

do you all suck or have major major long lags since u die so much? I've not died on archer since 3x cos a wipe in BH29 at quinzi.

i find it VERY easy to survive rofl. and yes its pure dex.

archer 69 atm. soon 70.

try tanking with 3 BH mobs on you at once and say that is easy in there. I shown my screen shots why it was too hard to play archer b:chuckle . I know, archers aren't tanks, but I bet you had to have a tanker with you. OFC you won't die if your not targeted

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

try tanking with 3 BH mobs on you at once and say that is easy in there. I shown my screen shots why it was too hard to play archer b:chuckle . I know, archers aren't tanks, but I bet you had to have a tanker with you. OFC you won't die if your not targeted

I challenge the validity of this argument.

Brutu - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

try tanking with 3 BH mobs on you at once and say that is easy in there. I shown my screen shots why it was too hard to play archer b:chuckle . I know, archers aren't tanks, but I bet you had to have a tanker with you. OFC you won't die if your not targeted

Well my level 66 archer can take on 3 mobs at once if I am smart and kite wisely, given not 3 bh mobs but you shouldn't be tanking a bh anyways as you have another class for that; a barb.

Is it hard to level an archer? Harder then some classes at first, yes, but once you get to 60 and know how to use it properly it's cake.

The only times I die at this point are either a result of me being dumb, lag, or dropping on a ton of high level mobs after flying.

Relakss - Harshlands · April 2010

i love my archer i never really die they always say wiz own archer but i won a lvl 9x wiz quite easy you just have to know your char and know what skills to use i dueled a pro pk wiz lvl 92 and won without pots.

and pve wise i never die just use stunning arrow n winged shell every mob you wont use mp or hp pots.

last time i was fighting 6 vs 1 in pvp 5 lvl 7x (cleric,sin,bm,barb,veno) n leader was 8x light armor cleric.ofcourse i had charm crab meat genie n 79 skill. and died several times but also took them all out on my own.

so archer don't fail for me XD (i'm a fist archer build)b:victory

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well my level 66 archer can take on 3 mobs at once if I am smart and kite wisely, given not 3 bh mobs but you shouldn't be tanking a bh anyways as you have another class for that; a barb.

Is it hard to level an archer? Harder then some classes at first, yes, but once you get to 60 and know how to use it properly it's cake.

The only times I die at this point are either a result of me being dumb, lag, or dropping on a ton of high level mobs after flying.

Well , the frost arrow and knockback arrow is pretty much pointless in instances like FBs / TTs. Slow or knockback, doesn't work there. I do survive much better with lots of MP stuff and chi which must be gained quickly from spamming skills. Other than that, I'd be dead. and I can't believe you, people that say its easy to play archers. I even seen a LVL90 archer died in FB39... yeah, that maybe an epic failed archer. But she wanted me to help her on my LVL41 cleric b:surrender so yeah, I helped her out from healing her. Not saying archer sucks, but they not easy to play

truekossy · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

try tanking with 3 BH mobs on you at once and say that is easy in there. I shown my screen shots why it was too hard to play archer b:chuckle . I know, archers aren't tanks, but I bet you had to have a tanker with you. OFC you won't die if your not targeted

By 6X, my archer was easily able to tank what would be the BH for that time (51) and would often gather up 5 or so of the feligar strikers (melee only, cannot be knocked back) and AoE them.

So your statement of being unable to handle a mere 3 is something I consider laughable.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

truekossy wrote: »

By 6X, my archer was easily able to tank what would be the BH for that time (51) and would often gather up 5 or so of the feligar strikers (melee only, cannot be knocked back) and AoE them.

So your statement of being unable to handle a mere 3 is something I consider laughable.

5? b:chuckle yeah, archers are so op. Not even epic gears in that archer would handle that I bet. Only barbs and BMs do that QFT even more mobs. Care to show a screen shot ? Because I don't believe you b:laugh . I have to say archers are balanced. There are friends I know that do know how to play and they also admit it does take skill.

truekossy · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5? b:chuckle yeah, archers are so op. Not even epic gears in that archer would handle that I bet. Only barbs and BMs do that QFT even more mobs. Care to show a screen shot ? Because I don't believe you b:laugh . I have to say archers are balanced. There are friends I know that do know how to play and they also admit it does take skill.

It's a counter to your statement of 3.

And you... must be all kinds of stupid if you honestly thank that with "epic" gears that's not possible. Especially since you can do it easily enough with unrefined gears that have a few G5 citrines.

Lemme break it down for you since you're obviously too simpleminded to figure it out.

1: Cast winged Shell while running through the mobs. This absorbs a bit of the incoming damage before the cleric's heals start to kick in.
2: If you're really squishy, unsure of yourself, or simply want to play it safe, cast grace once all monsters are grouped. This gets you a 30% damage reduction and temporary invincibility. If this is done while sell is active then all the more power to you.
3: Target Inc Life/Defense (or sac assult if there are any) monster and unload on Thunderous/Sharp/Wingspan. This way you'll be killing all the monsters around you (or getting rid of the most dangerous one) and will make things far easier on yourself.

TigerLily - Lost City · April 2010

...No one said archers suck in pve, so no clue why all these lower lvl archers are spamming pointless stories about how they never die from mobs or can tank BH-bosses.

Find me 1 high lvl archers that sais the class is gimp in pve lol. You will not find anyone because archers are very useful and versatile in pve, they're also easymode.You can tank most ranged bosses for your lvl with a cleric healing. You dont even get touched by mobs grinding. Majority of people playing PWI aren't really into pvp either, so for them archers will never suck since they only fight mobs 1v1.

When people say that archers "suck" they mean PVP and 90+ and nothing else. So for the love of god stop making silly posts about how easy you can kill mobs b:cold

Its also kinda true that archers suck a bit in pvp 90+ if you cant afford extremely good gear/refines and some costly lvl 11 skills. Other classes do suck with bad gear to of course, but they dont suffer as much as archers do, since they have better natural defenses due to gear/builds and skills. Other classes also have high dmg skills, archers only have crits and a high dmg weapon - which is rather different since it means you have spend a lot on refines.

Kristoph - Lost City · April 2010

Honestly a +10 debuff bow, demon quickshot and a handful of other skills aren'tt hat expensive anymore these days... and allows you to kill a lot of things 1v1 if you get some decent armor to go with it. You'll need a good genie and some common sense, though. Too many people still seem to believe archers can be effective in pvp by facerolling the keyboard like you could from lv60 to 80 or so.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

truekossy wrote: »

It's a counter to your statement of 3.

And you... must be all kinds of stupid if you honestly thank that with "epic" gears that's not possible. Especially since you can do it easily enough with unrefined gears that have a few G5 citrines.

Lemme break it down for you since you're obviously too simpleminded to figure it out.

1: Cast winged Shell while running through the mobs. This absorbs a bit of the incoming damage before the cleric's heals start to kick in.
2: If you're really squishy, unsure of yourself, or simply want to play it safe, cast grace once all monsters are grouped. This gets you a 30% damage reduction and temporary invincibility. If this is done while sell is active then all the more power to you.
3: Target Inc Life/Defense (or sac assult if there are any) monster and unload on Thunderous/Sharp/Wingspan. This way you'll be killing all the monsters around you (or getting rid of the most dangerous one) and will make things far easier on yourself.

screen shot or it didn't happen, g5 citrines is very laughable for archer. lets take 5... thats 100 HP more... nice. can a few g5 citrine shards help with this? I can't even take 2 of them with cleric <.<

I tested this myself, laugh if you want

MagicHamsta - Lost City · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

screen shot or it didn't happen, g5 citrines is very laughable for archer. lets take 5... thats 100 HP more... nice. can a few g5 citrine shards help with this? I can't even take 2 of them with cleric <.<

I tested this myself, laugh if you want

*seen and laughed at*
b:chuckle
that be rather amusing.

truekossy · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

screen shot or it didn't happen, g5 citrines is very laughable for archer. lets take 5... thats 100 HP more... nice. can a few g5 citrine shards help with this? I can't even take 2 of them with cleric <.<

I tested this myself, laugh if you want

So your counter to my post describing what a 6X archer can do in 51... is screens of a level 40 archer who has no shards, is basically unbuffed (you didn't even have blazing on for crying out loud), has less than 1k resistance against both physical and magical hits, has no blessing on, didn't attempt or receive any heals in general from pots to a charm to even one of the wizzies in squad, started fighting with barely any chi so you couldn't even take advantage of spark invincibility to make up for not having grace, and has a sub-par winged shell for their level... getting killed by mobs in 29.

On top of that, your math is off. G5 citrine is 25 HP each. Assuming all your armors and helm/cape have 3 sockets and you toss the citrines in them all, that's 450 HP from the shards. For your archer, that's almost 40% of your current HP getting boosted (in comparison, not even a sage barb's Beast King's Inspiration would give you that much of a boost). In other words, you're immediately discarding what, for you, would be a rather valuable boost right now.

So yeah, pardon me if I remain skeptical on whether or not you have a clue what you're talking about as well as if I agree with Hamsta and laugh.

Quilue - Sanctuary · April 2010

lol...archers can temporarily survive things should the need arise, they just can't do it for a sustained amount of time because their survival buffs are mostly temporary and very spark intensive.

i've pulled 2 waves in frost uncharmed and unbuffed because the tank was late and a bunch of friends dared me to do it. but can i take over the job of pulling? **** no, unless someone wants to wait for me to spam wings of protection for sparks at every wave.

i've survived bosses uncharmed in 3-3 long enough for the cleric to raise the barb. some combination of genie skills and archer skills timed right will let you prevent a lot of hits

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

truekossy wrote: »

So your counter to my post describing what a 6X archer can do in 51... is screens of a level 40 archer who has no shards, is basically unbuffed (you didn't even have blazing on for crying out loud), has less than 1k resistance against both physical and magical hits, has no blessing on, didn't attempt or receive any heals in general from pots to a charm to even one of the wizzies in squad, started fighting with barely any chi so you couldn't even take advantage of spark invincibility to make up for not having grace, and has a sub-par winged shell for their level... getting killed by mobs in 29.

Like I said, screen shot or it didn't happen. No proof? You didn't do it. I was using evasion buff + winged shell, them mobs ate through my shell within seconds and I end up dead faster than hitting them even three times, thats how fast I fell without, with full buffs won't change anything except make me survive a little more. Blazing arrow? It would of been more helpful if I didn't die so fast anyways so this deals with only metal mobs, thats about it. I had blessing on. And check the numbers and my HP again, not even a charm could save me. I was just showing you how fast it ended WITH buffs on, it ended longer than what I shown you (lasted for around 5 seconds), my only skills I can defend with is spark and winged shell which, grace isn't learned till LVL59 either.

On top of that, your math is off. G5 citrine is 25 HP each. Assuming all your armors and helm/cape have 3 sockets and you toss the citrines in them all, that's 450 HP from the shards. For your archer, that's almost 40% of your current HP getting boosted (in comparison, not even a sage barb's Beast King's Inspiration would give you that much of a boost). In other words, you're immediately discarding what, for you, would be a rather valuable boost right now.

Actually your math was off, I thought g5 citrines was 20 HP each, but was confused with common, my mistake. 18 average citrines thats far from few. but that would only make you survive like how much hits? 1-2 hits more?

So yeah, pardon me if I remain skeptical on whether or not you have a clue what you're talking about as well as if I agree with Hamsta and laugh.

Lol laugh all you want, I was kinda laughing too. Like I said screen shot, or it didn't happen. I'll prove with screen shots from now on b:cute

Anchali - Heavens Tear · April 2010

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

I'm sorry to inform you that barbs are no longer used to tank anything pve-related.
The main tank in any instance these days is a Fist BM or a Fist archer. No clue what a barbs job is anymore, i guess hp-buffing the fist bm/archer and using Armageddon on everyone at West gate.

lmao

some barbs are also very lazy/scared of repair bills (which idk why they chose to be a barb they should be able to handle repair bills) so throughout pwi times they become useless.

bm/archer/wiz/any other classes tank FTW

Brutu - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well , the frost arrow and knockback arrow is pretty much pointless in instances like FBs / TTs. Slow or knockback, doesn't work there. I do survive much better with lots of MP stuff and chi which must be gained quickly from spamming skills. Other than that, I'd be dead. and I can't believe you, people that say its easy to play archers. I even seen a LVL90 archer died in FB39... yeah, that maybe an epic failed archer. But she wanted me to help her on my LVL41 cleric b:surrender so yeah, I helped her out from healing her. Not saying archer sucks, but they not easy to play

Not reading my post 4tl.

Tell me why any archer would want to run into his/her bh and tank mobs? There are select situations in 59 where it might be fine but other then that hell no.... But the same could be said about psychics, I have a psychic friend that wouldn't imagine to be able to take on more then 1 mob during a bh, and just might die from that mob as a result anyways. OMG PSYS ARE TOO HARD TO PLAY!

I said 3 normal mobs, aslong as I am smart about it I can take them all on which would have been difficult even for my barb at my archer's level, so I guess barbs are hard to play aswell....

Level 90 archer died to an fb39? A level 84 archer in my faction soloed the 39 instance because he was bored before, so yes if that archer died either something dumb happened or the archer was fail.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not reading my post 4tl.

Tell me why any archer would want to run into his/her bh and tank mobs? There are select situations in 59 where it might be fine but other then that hell no.... But the same could be said about psychics, I have a psychic friend that wouldn't imagine to be able to take on more then 1 mob during a bh, and just might die from that mob as a result anyways. OMG PSYS ARE TOO HARD TO PLAY!

I said 3 normal mobs, aslong as I am smart about it I can take them all on which would have been difficult even for my barb at my archer's level, so I guess barbs are hard to play aswell....

Level 90 archer died to an fb39? A level 84 archer in my faction soloed the 39 instance because he was bored before, so yes if that archer died either something dumb happened or the archer was fail.

I looked like I wasn't reading, but I phrased that quote wrong, sorry.

1. That's the point, why would an archer tank in BH to begin with?

2. Well, I can't more than that much normal mobs on any class except barbarian, venomancer or blademaster (I can take more than 3 for these 3 classes). 3 is too much for me when it comes to other classes. I did succeed with wizard a few times (maybe wizard and cleric counts too for magic mobs...)

3. Yeah your right, everyone meant to be able to solo FB39 at 70 at least, but knowing that at 39-59 would be rough.

4. Archer is hard for me to LVL if I try naturally. I just tried doing a BH run to feed exp for genie and died 11 times total yesterday. I have to get at least 125 chi , I don't die that way. BTW that was the only char that I couldn't solo charr, elder tortoise and florafang with which everyone else did too... I don't think you need a screen shot of that anyways because I don't have screen shot b:surrender anyways, playing atm b:chuckleb:bye

Bellatriix - Archosaur · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5? b:chuckle yeah, archers are so op. Not even epic gears in that archer would handle that I bet. Only barbs and BMs do that QFT even more mobs. Care to show a screen shot ? Because I don't believe you b:laugh . I have to say archers are balanced. There are friends I know that do know how to play and they also admit it does take skill.

As someone who knows truekossy, and has been in many BH51s with her.. I can say that she knows what the hell she is doing, and does it quite effortlessly. She isn't lying - don't compare to your fail to her, and assume that all other archers will fail, kay thanks.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I saw this and, Yulk, I had higher physical defense and higher health than you, when I was level 40, unbuffed, wearing arcane armor, with only my base 5 vitality. So I can totally imagine archers having better gear than you.

I thought people were fine with NPC / shop gears till 70? oh sorry, I forgot you do need good gear after all through the levels. I'll just hope to finish getting all my archer's skills like the rest of my alts, then back to this avatar toon or my barb. Venoes are too easy and other ones are just wow -.- wth, I'd crawl back to this BM or my barb

Edit: I'm sillier than a breadbox o.0... My LA built Veno have just about the same P.DEF at LVL20+ as my archer at 40+ xD

I'll get better gears next time b:surrender

@ bellatrixx, it didn't happen then :P... The least thing that non-face should of shown a LVL1 alt. So yeah, don't front xD

Michael_Dark - Lost City · April 2010

Magicgabe - Lost City wrote: »

1) tanking anything(barb's job)
2) spike damage( wizards job)

Umm... you're really clueless aren't you?

1) read TigerLily's response to you.
2) Archers are pure spike damage. Mages don't generate much spike damage... it's pretty consistent without amps or debuffs.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Anyone on the recieving end of a +10 lunar bow can tell you archers don't suck lol. But yeah until they reach that point they are creampuffs b:laugh

Umm.. +10 CV bows are pretty much the standard and really don't hurt so badly anymore... they don't hurt you like +10-+12 Rank 8 or Nirvana bows.

Even LC's nirvana bow runs from BMs 1v1. lol +10 you gotta watch out for, sure, but archer with +10 HS is far less scary than a mage with +10 NP.

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Its also kinda true that archers suck a bit in pvp 90+ if you cant afford extremely good gear/refines and some costly lvl 11 skills.

Reminds me of a story Kage told me.... he was fighting PC at west gate, all of a sudden he Bloodvow's Kage... triple sparked off, he went on to kill him. Even a 50m+ skill rendered useless. It was pretty funny.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I looked like I wasn't reading, but I phrased that quote wrong, sorry.

1. That's the point, why would an archer tank in BH to begin with?

2. Well, I can't more than that much normal mobs on any class except barbarian, venomancer or blademaster (I can take more than 3 for these 3 classes). 3 is too much for me when it comes to other classes. I did succeed with wizard a few times (maybe wizard and cleric counts too for magic mobs...)

3. Yeah your right, everyone meant to be able to solo FB39 at 70 at least, but knowing that at 39-59 would be rough.

4. Archer is hard for me to LVL if I try naturally. I just tried doing a BH run to feed exp for genie and died 11 times total yesterday. I have to get at least 125 chi , I don't die that way. BTW that was the only char that I couldn't solo charr, elder tortoise and florafang with which everyone else did too... I don't think you need a screen shot of that anyways because I don't have screen shot b:surrender anyways, playing atm b:chuckleb:bye

i think your just sucking. im rly sorry, but florafang/charr/elder tortoise is/was easy enough as archer... and what freaking bh did u die 11 times in?
heck my archer alt (70) has died only 2 times so far and that was in bh29 quinzi cos of wipes. if u die 11 times for 1 single bh, maybe just quit that alt xD

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · April 2010

4. Archer is hard for me to LVL if I try naturally. I just tried doing a BH run to feed exp for genie and died 11 times total yesterday. I have to get at least 125 chi , I don't die that way. BTW that was the only char that I couldn't solo charr, elder tortoise and florafang with which everyone else did too... I don't think you need a screen shot of that anyways because I don't have screen shot

Urgh... My archer feels very easy to lvl for me... Duno wth u doing wrong to die so much... Or if u doing anything right at all...

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk, nearly every other archer on this thread is telling you that PvE is easy for archers. You are the only one that is insisting that PvE is difficult, due to your own numerous deaths.

Has it occurred to you that this is due to your own incompetency than the class itself? If Archers are really that difficult to play in PvE, why is it that so many other archers are saying it is easy?

Brutu - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I thought people were fine with NPC / shop gears till 70? oh sorry, I forgot you do need good gear after all through the levels. I'll just hope to finish getting all my archer's skills like the rest of my alts, then back to this avatar toon or my barb. Venoes are too easy and other ones are just wow -.- wth, I'd crawl back to this BM or my barb

Edit: I'm sillier than a breadbox o.0... My LA built Veno have just about the same P.DEF at LVL20+ as my archer at 40+ xD

I'll get better gears next time b:surrender

@ bellatrixx, it didn't happen then :P... The least thing that non-face should of shown a LVL1 alt. So yeah, don't front xD

I just shopped/got quest items until I levelled to 60 and got my TT xbow and I must say between 21 and 45 it was difficult to level my archer, given not much more difficult then to level certain other classes between these levels but difficult nonetheless.

However when you get to 45(or a little higher)you not only begin to get the dex to crit more and do massive damage but you also get a quest item bow that was actually pretty reliable for me... And once you get to level 60 and get a TT xbow you begin to find that you will only die when you completely mess up and will kill mobs with decent alacrity.

Quilue - Sanctuary · April 2010

at earlier levels, melee mobs are probably the most troublesome for archers. even though you have frost and knockback, face it, sometimes you miss, sometimes it's increased life. fortunately here is something that might help. Because you can shoot through walls and jump over obstacles, you must use this when the opportunity arises for lols and so you don't need to pot. Disclaimer: mobs in past maps may jump over obstacles and even climb houses...HAX!!! some obstacles mobs can skip over. remember, a mob cannot reset as long as it's moving toward you, only when it's closest to you and has stopped moving while realizing that it's unable to attack will it reset.

the tree: melee mobs have to walk around a tree, but you can shoot through the tree. get it? position yourself behind the tree and shoot through the tree at the mob. if possible, knockback the mob before it has walked around the tree. this can work against ranged mobs as well. you'll need to knock back the mob as it's coming, then simply back off in a straight line from the tree and keep shooting. the mob will still have to get around the tree as you fire through the tree from a distance.

the hill: this is to be taken advantage of similar to the tree, because you shoot at a straight line through the hill while the mob has to walk over the hill, you should always be at the opposite side of a hill than a mob as you start shooting.

the fence/log: this is hilarious when you can take advantage of it. there are fences in the game that mobs have to walk around, but you can simply jump over. simply jump over the fence when the mob reaches you and shoot the mob as it walks all the way around.

the house/rock: same principle, and even easier than the tree as you can jump over the rock/house and keep shooting as the mob walks around. start on top of the rock/house, then drop off behind the obstacle as the mob approaches

this can work with mages, clerics, and psychics as well. (although wizards are more than capable of controlling a mob's movements, it saves mana to not have to knockback or seal right?)

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss128/naix20oO/fence1.jpg

will post screens when i get to it lmao

AinaMizuako - Sanctuary · April 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@ bellatrixx, it didn't happen then :P... The least thing that non-face should of shown a LVL1 alt. So yeah, don't front xD

I don't think she needs to show her face when you are the only one disputing her claim. b:bye

Archers DO NOT suck

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