Daggers-Rank VI vs G13 Nirvana.
Deathiris - Sanctuary
Posts: 25 Arc User
The only daggers I know of w/ -.1 interval are.
Dream Breaker (Rank VI)- http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/26049
and Barrier Thorn: Nirvana- http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/26598
When I first started out to make a 5.0 dagger sin I was so far away (still am) that I didn't really look that closely at the two weapon choices and just assumed that the Nirvana daggers would just be so frigging awesome AND refine better that they would be worth the extra cost for someone aiming for DPS.
Today I looked at them again (Yay for maintenance time n_n) and was like b:shocked they're both G13!! and +184 max physical attack! On Pwcalc I got an average of 8,074.5 for Dream Breaker and only 7,672 for Nirvana daggers -.- (both +10 2x garnet gems)
- http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=288232cf6552afc4
Considering that 100 rapture $$ >>> then rank VI, and that rank VI would give me a decent chest armor instead of the lvl 60 one, and that Dream Breaker comes with 2 sockets 100% of the time is there any reason why a DPS sin would prefer the G13 nirvana daggers over the rank VI ones? (besides the fact that the rank VI daggers aren't in the game yet xD)
Anyone want to correct me and dramatically scream "Nooooooo!" before I sell all my raptures?
Dream Breaker (Rank VI)- http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/26049
and Barrier Thorn: Nirvana- http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/26598
When I first started out to make a 5.0 dagger sin I was so far away (still am) that I didn't really look that closely at the two weapon choices and just assumed that the Nirvana daggers would just be so frigging awesome AND refine better that they would be worth the extra cost for someone aiming for DPS.
Today I looked at them again (Yay for maintenance time n_n) and was like b:shocked they're both G13!! and +184 max physical attack! On Pwcalc I got an average of 8,074.5 for Dream Breaker and only 7,672 for Nirvana daggers -.- (both +10 2x garnet gems)
- http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=288232cf6552afc4
Considering that 100 rapture $$ >>> then rank VI, and that rank VI would give me a decent chest armor instead of the lvl 60 one, and that Dream Breaker comes with 2 sockets 100% of the time is there any reason why a DPS sin would prefer the G13 nirvana daggers over the rank VI ones? (besides the fact that the rank VI daggers aren't in the game yet xD)
Anyone want to correct me and dramatically scream "Nooooooo!" before I sell all my raptures?
Post edited by Deathiris - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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Check if the dream breaker is actually available first.
Last time i checked, 1 day ago, it was not.This is my signature. It is my sin in stealth mode.0 -
I think Rank VI > Nirvana unless you recast it with at least -.1 atk/speed which are the ultimate DPS sin daggers afaik.0
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you make very good points. but your forgetting the recast value. theres a chance for zerksb:shocked and maybe even purge daggers. that would be sickness. they could also have the added attack like the rank 6 do. and if you dont like em its only a **** ton of farming to try again
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nirvana have higher minimum, rank 6 much higher maximum
both refine the same.
rank6 aren't out yet
1st stage nirvana aren't really better than rank6
recast nirvana with -.1 and zerk = b:shocked
you can also potentially get 2 of the following:
Maximum Physical Attack +106
Maximum Physical Attack +130
Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds
Interval Between Hits -0.1 seconds (not shown on pwdatabase but is possible. unsure what else may be possible)
Range +1
HP: +350
Strength +18~19
Dexterity +18~19
Magic +18~19
Vitality +18~19
Critical Hit Rate +1%
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Accuracy +30%
Atk. Level +1
Atk. Level +2
Atk. Level +3
Def. Level +2
and one of these:
Critical Hit Rate +3%
Critical Hit Rate +4%
Sacrificial Strike: Has a chance to inflict double damage
at the cost of losing 5% HP.
God of Frenzy: A blessed frenzy warrior! Has a higher chance to deal double damage.
Costs 5% Max HP.
you could get 3 attack levels, -.1 int and zerk.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Was actually just thinking bout this topic earlier (during class b:avoid). Bookmarking this thread for future reference.
I haven't looked into recasting and is really a noob when comes to the subject. These's like a "main" stats then 2 "minor" ones? Is the -0.1 the main one and will always be there when you recast then you get 2 random stats?0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »you could get 3 attack levels, -.1 int and zerk.
Better:
-0.05 seconds
-0.1 seconds
and advanced zerk b:dirty0 -
Idk if I'd want zerk daggers on a interval Sin lol. We have enough fire power as it is. lvl 100 AA and LA already die within seconds with just -0.2 interval. HA takes longer but that'll change after the 79 skill.0
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5 attacks /sec with zerk would probably be suicide lol
And yes, nirvada recast gives you 3 adds: 1 main add(the last 4 options given), and 2 minor add (the first row)9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Was actually just thinking bout this topic earlier (during class b:avoid). Bookmarking this thread for future reference.
I haven't looked into recasting and is really a noob when comes to the subject. These's like a "main" stats then 2 "minor" ones? Is the -0.1 the main one and will always be there when you recast then you get 2 random stats?
look at the list i have in blue above. the first set you get 2 of. the second set you get 1 of.
the only thing i'm not certain of is if there is MORE on the first list.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Idk if I'd want zerk daggers on a interval Sin lol. We have enough fire power as it is. lvl 100 AA and LA already die within seconds with just -0.2 interval. HA takes longer but that'll change after the 79 skill.
i did a number run when sins came out and someone asked about this as to wether it was a good idea or not.....and i just spent some time looking for it....Trawne - Lost City wrote: »number crunch for ya:
lets say your base hits are 2k (modest number) and you have 5k HP
bloodpaint gives you back 40 HP
Criticals give back 80 HP Zerks also give back 80HP
Zerk Crits would give 160 HP back at the cost of 250 HP
so you lose 90 HP every zerk crit and 170 HP every zerk
also if you did 4k Damage base:
BP gives 80 HP
Crit gives 160
Zerk crit gives 320.
you would gain 70 HP on zerk crits and lose 90 HP on just zerks (assuming 5k hp still)
the higher you refine your dagger, the More HP you will steal. the higher you raise you HP, the more you will lose. that doesnt mean keep your HP low however. better to have 10k and lose 500 hp than have 5k and lose 250 b:cute
(numbers have been used for simple purposes and are in no way showing the actual dmg you will do as i dont know them yet b:victory)
this also doesnt take in the average number of swings between your zerks that will replenish your life, just a per chance basis of what you would see.
with all that said, imagine a Wolf Emblem, Triple Spark(when we get it), Zerk-Crit Headhunt b:dirty
basically you wont really kill yourself zerking unless you zerk every hit and dont crit them.
also this was made based on 2% bloodpaint. sage sins will have even better life gain.
you would still gain HP over time, just not as much. at the cost of doing so much more damage i think it's worth itI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
I've heard something about "rerolling" the stats if the recasted stats are not what you wanted. Does that apply to both major and minor stats? Does it cost more crystals?0
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yes. it completely re-rolls all 3 stats so you cant choose which you want to keep. it takes 7 crystals to recast. you do not lose refines or gems when reforging so you can do it at any time later on if you chose to without having to re-refine.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0
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The zerk calculation is based on PvE damage tho. I get about 50-60 HP each normal hit on daily mobs in OHT. That'll be significantly less when against HA in PvP or even less on Barbs in tiger form. Fighting HA is not about have more damage anymore, now with demon spark. It's more of if you can live long enough to do enough to overcome their charm. I still won't be getting zerk daggers if given the choice, considering what our 79 skill should do.0
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »The zerk calculation is based on PvE damage tho. I get about 50-60 HP each normal hit on daily mobs in OHT. That'll be significantly less when against HA in PvP or even less on Barbs in tiger form.
Eehm, doesn't zerk simply double your dmg?9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris0 -
Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »Eehm, doesn't zerk simply double your dmg?
After PvP reduction cuts it in 1/4, then pdef from HA cuts it even more, sure.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »After PvP reduction cuts it in 1/4, then pdef from HA cuts it even more, sure.
Still doubles the dmg you would have done without bezerk.
It's no calculation, it's simply double dmg at the cost of 5% hp (which stacks with crit)9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris0 -
Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »Still doubles the dmg you would have done without bezerk.
It's no calculation, it's simply double dmg at the cost of 5% hp (which stacks with crit)
Yeah I know. I mean the end result will still be less damage than the numbers he crunched for PvE, which had no reduction of any kind. So his theory of BP still recovers HP with zerk works for PvE, but you don't gain as much HP back when you are fighting HA in PvP even with zerk doubling the final damage.
100 PvE dmg = 25 PvP dmg = 50 zerk dmg =100 zerk-crit dmg. The last 2 numbers will be less after factoring in physical defense and etc.0 -
For the G15 zerk hp loss vs bloodpaint hp gain you should also consider zerk crit hp gains and the additional benefit of doing damage that should be illegal.
"-.1 interval"
so.... yes not listed in Database, or from the wanmei site (really old from when nirvana weapon pictures were first released). It makes a big difference if -.1 intv is a possible add on G15 daggers (for fists users too with regards to fist which is another topic). If you could post or link some solid evidence supporting this would really be appreciated.
Theory- Regardless of -.1 intv or -.05 or getting -.05 x2 on g15 daggers with enough $$ it would seem that the G15 dagger would generate the highest DPS (rank 8 chest if only -.05 intv on dagger).
Reality- >_> I don't have $$ to burn for this game, is why the original question was G13 vs Rank VI (and yes it will take awhile >_>)
Considering the extra cost of G13, the additional benefits associated w/ rank VI, the "fact" (?) that Rank VI has higher overall damage, and that I can farm badges pretty easily (5.0 fist archer ftw ^ ^V) I'm going to start praying for the release of sage weapons (and lvl 11 skills ><) and go with dreambreaker, unless I'm missing something and Barrier Thorn somehow does more damage (database lists different refine values though both g13 weapons, ofc database could be wrong)
S> 33 raptures 1,000 rep each b:chuckle0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »yes. it completely re-rolls all 3 stats so you cant choose which you want to keep. it takes 7 crystals to recast. you do not lose refines or gems when recasting so you can do it at any time later on if you chose to without having to re-refine.
Not true. b:bye
Of course you loose all adds when u recast. Thats why they introduced the new chienkun stones with which u can transfer ur gems/refines/sockets to your recasted gear without loosing them. But thats also ridiculously expensive... Better to recast until you get ur wanted adds, then refine and put gems into it0 -
Mohilan - Lost City wrote: »Not true. b:bye
Of course you loose all adds when u recast. Thats why they introduced the new chienkun stones with which u can transfer ur gems/refines/sockets to your recasted gear without loosing them. But thats also ridiculously expensive... Better to recast until you get ur wanted adds, then refine and put gems into it
excuse me... i meant reforging, which is what he was talking about. i'll fix it b:surrenderDeathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »For the G15 zerk hp loss vs bloodpaint hp gain you should also consider zerk crit hp gains and the additional benefit of doing damage that should be illegal.
"-.1 interval"
so.... yes not listed in Database, or from the wanmei site (really old from when nirvana weapon pictures were first released). It makes a big difference if -.1 intv is a possible add on G15 daggers (for fists users too with regards to fist which is another topic). If you could post or link some solid evidence supporting this would really be appreciated.
Theory- Regardless of -.1 intv or -.05 or getting -.05 x2 on g15 daggers with enough $$ it would seem that the G15 dagger would generate the highest DPS (rank 8 chest if only -.05 intv on dagger).
Reality- >_> I don't have $$ to burn for this game, is why the original question was G13 vs Rank VI (and yes it will take awhile >_>)
Considering the extra cost of G13, the additional benefits associated w/ rank VI, the "fact" (?) that Rank VI has higher overall damage, and that I can farm badges pretty easily (5.0 fist archer ftw ^ ^V) I'm going to start praying for the release of sage weapons (and lvl 11 skills ><) and go with dreambreaker, unless I'm missing something and Barrier Thorn somehow does more damage (database lists different refine values though both g13 weapons, ofc database could be wrong)
S> 33 raptures 1,000 rep each b:chuckle
after re-reading i think i get it so...... i still have NO idea wth you're saying in the first part. as to -.1 int yes you can people have it. search for it.
as for refine difference i dont know.
also farming nirvana daggers is about as easy as farming for rank 6 anyway.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Yeah I know. I mean the end result will still be less damage than the numbers he crunched for PvE, which had no reduction of any kind. So his theory of BP still recovers HP with zerk works for PvE, but you don't gain as much HP back when you are fighting HA in PvP even with zerk doubling the final damage.
100 PvE dmg = 25 PvP dmg = 50 zerk dmg =100 zerk-crit dmg. The last 2 numbers will be less after factoring in physical defense and etc.
in PvP you WANT zerk for higher damage. it's all about killing them quickly and getting through that charm jsut like you said. you WANT more damage for that.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
I think his point was, you'd be losing a lot more HP in PvP than in PvE with zerk daggers, especially at high interval (meaning more likely zerk will proc). Unless you watch your HP and constantly hit pots (theoretically) you'd be leaving yourself pretty vulnerable.
I dunno, I'm tempted to go with RankVI just because I like the name, and they're somewhat the same anyways xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm going for rank VI for sure. I'm already getting rank VI plate as my end-game chest anyways, so the extra cost for the daggers will be less than having to make TT90 with ADS, not able use those daggers, decompose them to make TT99, then get crystals for recast.0
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TT99 gold souledge is now TT90 green not the TT90 gold so no 2x ADS needed n_n
but ya still going for rank vi ones.
missing 1 badge, sitting on a lump of tokens, sending in tickets [lost cause ino u.u], and contemplating the cost of g13 + time it would take to get to 100 vs time until rank vi released =.=
Grr... I have no idea how sins w/ rank 6 and all badges who have been waiting MONTHS have not imploded from frustration ><.0 -
Deathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »TT99 gold souledge is now TT90 green not the TT90 gold so no 2x ADS needed n_n
O? Sucks for those that made them before the update then. b:chuckle0 -
Find other things to do, like learning to play the market n__n My focus now has become: make money, then worry about gear. lol. Then again I never had a "loaded" main before I started my assassin, so.. maybe I'm the only one thinking I need funds first before I start gathering gear together ._.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Deathiris - Sanctuary wrote: »TT99 gold souledge is now TT90 green not the TT90 gold so no 2x ADS needed n_n
but ya still going for rank vi ones.
missing 1 badge, sitting on a lump of tokens, sending in tickets [lost cause ino u.u], and contemplating the cost of g13 + time it would take to get to 100 vs time until rank vi released =.=
Grr... I have no idea how sins w/ rank 6 and all badges who have been waiting MONTHS have not imploded from frustration ><.
b:surrender b:sad b:cry0 -
Anyone got a picture of rank VI from other version? b:dirty0
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