Archer skills

bkloes
bkloes Posts: 0 Arc User
edited April 2010 in Archer
Tell me if I am wrong but its better to start a new post then revive a dead one.....

I have been following the guides but also doing my own thinking......Why is the vicious arrow such a bad skill (DoT if that is the correct one) I find myself running at times....and a skill that drained them while I escaped wouldn't be bad...Also it only costs mana no spark.

I find that the stun arrow and aim low take spark I think....which is something as an archer I don't seem to have in abundance. Is there any tricks to building spark?

Feel free to express any other skill related opinions here too...thank you
Post edited by bkloes on

Comments

  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Stunning arrow does not take chi.

    DoT skills are usually not needed because you can deal enough damage anyways with normal attacks. Normal attacks are faster, so you end up doing more damage. Since normal attacks do not consume MP, you are being more efficient.

    If, however, you find DoTs to work for you, go ahead and use them. I just recommend you try the normal Frost Arrow -> Normal -> Normal -> Knockback -> Normal (the rest) combo, to see if it works for you.
  • bkloes
    bkloes Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ty...yes that does work for me. I however find that on some creatures L40ish it does not always finish them off.....especially in the OH SH** situations where someone in party or myselfb:chuckle accidentally pulls more then 1 mob towards me
  • I_Snipe - Lost City
    I_Snipe - Lost City Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    i personally have both vicious and serrated maxed. That's just me though. The only reason i would use those skills are for shts and giggles or:
    Demon Serrated Arrow for a miniscule 200 hp over time
    Vicious Arrow on Earth Mobs when my job is to DD [instances w/ normal shots/skills ofc]

    Again, that's just my playing style.

    As Elena said, Stunning does not take chi/spark. Only Aim Low.

    And if you have problems with Mana and can't afford to purchase, consider leveling your Apothecary and manufacture Focus Power [Increase MP Recovery rate by 50 for 10 minutes].
    I believe that is a Level 2 Apothecary remedy. Requires 15 Crane Herb and 10 Saliva Root. It gives you 10 per manufacture.

    Theres also a Level 1 Apothecary called Life Powder [Increase HP Recovery rate by 50 for 10 minutes]. Requires 15 Nectar and 10 Golden Herbs. Those are bountiful around the starting areas of each race. These 2 are the reason I haven't bought a single pot since I've started [I'm manufacturing the 100 recovery ones now]

    Use that along with the pots that you pick up when you quest and mana shouldn't be a problem.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    i find them an effective method of letting a herc keep aggro while STA wears off as well. (mind you i still out damage herc w/ fists) thar be no point in sitting around doing nothing, or letting yourself rip aggro and die.

    all in all, they are rather useless, as they just dont do enough damage compared to normal shots to be worth the time.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I vaguely recall reading somewhere that you get less XP from using DoTs, b/c the damage deal over time is not factored.

    If this is the case, and, combined with the research of XP reduction from Sharpened Tooth Arrow, can we make the hypothesis that damage dealt over time does not count toward aggro?

    If this is true, then DoTs can be used to deal damage without taking aggro. This would not be due to dealing less damage in general (which is what most people do), but due to dealing more non-aggro damage.
  • FitHitDShan - Sanctuary
    FitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    There are a lot of leaps of faith in that last post's logical chain. Is that Elena or Teapot?
    "?" IS my avatar.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    There may be. Most of them are verifiable, too.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Elena is Teapot short and stout

    that aside, the damage from the full duration of a DoT is less than my normal attack. addon from stormrage is more or less a crit. i don't think it makes such a big difference

    it's easy to not take aggro if the barb is not holding it well, attack 3 times, tap a movement button. less work and mana consumed than spamming DoTs
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
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    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    that aside, the damage from the full duration of a DoT is less than my normal attack. addon from stormrage is more or less a crit. i don't think it makes such a big difference

    If Damage can be classified under two types: aggro-damage and non-aggro-damage, then, in the case of squadding with a tank, you can increase your total damage output if you increase the non-aggro-damage.

    It is one thing to waste mana to reduce your own damage (i.e. using skills to deal less damage). I usually criticize others of this when they say they use DoTs to limit their damage.

    It is another thing if you can actually deal non-aggro-damage.
  • FitHitDShan - Sanctuary
    FitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Elena is only Teapot in your fantasies, Qui. Which, come to think of it, means you have a thing for her brother (ick - erase that thought - ouch - too much gender confusion).

    I do agree that it makes sense in the STA example that the damage and agro counters are incremented in the same subroutine and, if it proves true that DOT damage does not count toward EXP, then we might assume that DOT attacks are an even more effective way to avoid agro than previously supposed.

    The most obvious thing for someone to test is the hypothesis that DOT damage does not count. Would it suffice to kill a low level mob with purely DOT and see if it yields any EXP? Arguably, this misses the possibility of DOTs counting for less, but that possibility does not work well with a set of counters being missed.
    "?" IS my avatar.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    what are you talking about? how is calling Elena Teapot any way related to her brother? you're just jealous that i haven't given you a nickname.

    you can't kill a low level mob with only DoTs cuz the base damage will just kill it outright.

    i've tried on high lvl mobs and it doesn't decrease xp gained, or maybe i didnt let it tick enough. full duration of lvl 11 (don't ask) serrated arrow casted twice
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Testing XP-loss from DoT is easy: Kill 2 of the same mob, one with normal skills and one with DoTs. If the DoT-mob gives less HP then DoT damage doesnt count for XP.

    You can actually test the aggro holding ability of DoTs directly as well:
    - Attack one mob with a normal arrow and run away, time how long it follows you.
    - Attack that mob again with a 15s DoT, does it follow you for 15 seconds longer than the first case?

    I suspect DoT damage doesn't "count" since just like tooth it is a debuff that inflicts damage that doesnt show in your damage log. However, unlike tooth DoTs generate floating red numbers...
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  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Damage over Time does not hold aggro, and you can lose aggro with stormrage eagelon ticking away.

    However skill use might hold aggro?
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Damage over Time does not hold aggro, and you can lose aggro with stormrage eagelon ticking away.

    That's not sufficient of a test. It is possible that others are taking aggro because they are generating more than your Previous Damage + Current Stormrage Damage.
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    However skill use might hold aggro?

    I'm not sure what you mean here.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That's not sufficient of a test. It is possible that others are taking aggro because they are generating more than your Previous Damage + Current Stormrage Damage.

    Fleuri may have been talking about the case I suggested where you hit a mob with a dot and run away and see if it takes longer to reset.
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  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Yes, Asterelle understood what I was trying to say: i can solo a monster and with no one else hitting it, it will reset even though it is not very far from me and is taking damage from stormrage eagelon.

    Also, I have spent quite a lot of time kiting monsters, using my cooldown on vicious and serrated arrows to tell me when to take my next shot. And on a lot of monsters it takes about 12 seconds to lose aggro, which means that they will reset with vicious or serrated still ticking -- this can happen when I miss twice in a row.

    But just because the ticks did not generate aggro does not mean that the skill did not generate aggro -- perhaps all of its aggro generating was counted when I hit the monster...
  • Smobo - Heavens Tear
    Smobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I kited a few mobs with vicious arrow and normal shots. The ticks from vicious arrow didn't seem to effect how long they stayed agro on me before resetting.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    So it sounds like you can deal more damage through DoTs when you have a tank that you normally have to hold back on.

    ?
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So it sounds like you can deal more damage through DoTs when you have a tank that you normally have to hold back on.

    ?

    I can not think of any way to determine that.

    I use a crossbow and just by myself my high damage crits are 4x my low damage non-crits. When you throw in amps and debuffs, deciding on aggro issues gets even harder. I use some approximations and rules of thumb, but they only mostly work.

    Also, if I do not have a 100mp recovery buff active the mana costs on skill use gets to be annoying enough that I spend a lot of my time not using them.

    I use DoT for damage mostly only when I am doing something like air-to-ground or fighting someone with high defense levels or something of that character or when I am kiting something solo.

    (But half of their benefit to me in kiting has been that their cooldowns remind me when I need to hit my monster again, to avoid losing aggro. And yes, I will agree that kiting is slow but sometimes waiting for a tank can be slower.)

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