Chienkun Stones
Comments
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At their current pricing, they're pretty much the worst/most-expensive way to refine, actually. For example, going from +4 to +5 will take an average of 60 Chienkun + Mirages, for a cost of around 23 million. That's compared to about 9 million for a Dragon Orb 5, or 100k for a 45% chance to get +5 using a Tienkang with a 3.3 million average cost to gamble all the way back from +0 to +5 using Mirages and Tienkangs if you should fail.Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »These stones good for this reason and this reason alone:
Refinery Lv. will not decrease if the refinery fails.
You're right, and that certainly seems like it was PWI's intention. They're pretty much worthless for anything else, but for Nirvana gear they fulfill the promises that were made way back when.Malilizi - Harshlands wrote: »You guys are missing the real point of these stones which is transferring your refines when re-casting your gear into Nirvana.
The cost to transfer your refines at the forges is cheaper than trying to transfer your refines through the PW agent. I had my friend test it and transferring a +5 was eight stones. So that's 8 gold compared to the 27 it would take without a sale. (not counting using mirages for the first few, of course.)
I'll go and check it with my +7 later but it seems like it will be incredibly reasonable for Nirvana gear and weapons ^^.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
It's 1 stone per attempt, with no chance of losing your refine.Rumble - Harshlands wrote: »Or will it be that 60 stones for no loss on failed attempt at +5. If the later you could blow through a ton of stones. It doesn't increase your chance to succeed only mitigates your losses if it fails.
However, they dramatically LOWER your chances of success. For example, your odds of success going from +4 to +5 using Mirages is 30%, using Tienkangs is 45%, and using Tishas is 33.5%. But if you use a Chienkun stone you get a measly 1.67%, making them an expensive gamble with little chance of reward.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
Thank you all for the info
. It'll be interesting to see what people do w/ these stones nao that they're available. And yeah I realize they are really available so people can transfer refine lvls on Nirvana gear ^^. 0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »It's 1 stone per attempt, with no chance of losing your refine.
However, they dramatically LOWER your chances of success. For example, your odds of success going from +4 to +5 using Mirages is 30%, using Tienkangs is 45%, and using Tishas is 33.5%. But if you use a Chienkun stone you get a measly 1.67%, making them an expensive gamble with little chance of reward.
What a mastermind scheme to try and make you spend more money than you really should.
Glad you people work all this stuff out when I'm too tired to. XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Thanks Wolfy. I finally got to log in and see myself. When you buy a stone it says right on it the percentages for refining success if used.
Outside of Nirvana these stones are completely worthless. These fall somewhere below Chest of Coins but above mat sales in Fail history.0 -
Rumble - Harshlands wrote: »I missing something on the loss prevention part of these stones. Is it one stone to prevent loosing a refinement level across the boards when you try to refine or is this also hinged on the current refinement level of the item?
So in other words if I take a +5 armor piece to the elder and have 10 of these stones will it look like this:
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine Successful
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine Successful
And then I'll have a +7 item? Or will it be that 60 stones for no loss on failed attempt at +5. If the later you could blow through a ton of stones. It doesn't increase your chance to succeed only mitigates your losses if it fails.
no it will be more like:
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
Refine unsuccessful - no loss of level
repeat 60 more timesyoutube.com/chezedude0 -
No transfer of the stones for the Nirvana process I presume..?0
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Assuming dragon orbs cost 0.29 goldslutmonkey wrote: »I just tried it on my +8 requiem blade. It wanted 150 stones. That is 150 gold, I dunno how much gold it costs to refine to +8 using Dragon orbs. Probalby more than 150 gold, but I'll use tiesha like I did before and start again I think.
+1 = 1 DO = 0.29 gold
+2 = 4 DO = 1.16 gold
+3 = 10 DO = 2.9 gold
+4 = 25 DO = 7.25 gold
+5 = 60 DO = 17.4 gold
+6 = 130 DO = 37.7 gold
+7 = 215 DO = 62.35 gold
+8 = 405 DO = 117.45 gold
+9 = 750 DO = 217.5 gold
+10 = Ocean DO = 75 gold
+11 = 8DO + 9DO + Ocean = 409.95 gold
+12 = Ocean + 11DO = 484.95 gold
I hear you can use a higher level DO for lower level refines. if true, the +10 Ocean orb could be used for the +8 and +9 refines, dropping their cost to 75 gold each. Your cumulative refine costs (i.e. starting with a +0 item) using dragon orbs then are:
Cumulative:
+1 = 0.29 gold
+2 = 1.45 gold
+3 = 4.35 gold
+4 = 11.6 gold
+5 = 29 gold
+6 = 66.7 gold
+7 = 129.05 gold
+8 = 204.05 gold
+9 = 279.05 gold
+10 = 354.05 gold
+11 = 764 gold
+12 = 1248.95 gold0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Assuming dragon orbs cost 0.29 gold
+1 = 1 DO = 0.29 gold
+2 = 4 DO = 1.16 gold
+3 = 10 DO = 2.9 gold
+4 = 25 DO = 7.25 gold
+5 = 60 DO = 17.4 gold
+6 = 130 DO = 37.7 gold
+7 = 215 DO = 62.35 gold
+8 = 405 DO = 117.45 gold
+9 = 750 DO = 217.5 gold
+10 = Ocean DO = 75 gold
+11 = 8DO + 9DO + Ocean = 409.95 gold
+12 = Ocean + 11DO = 484.95 gold
I hear you can use a higher level DO for lower level refines. if true, the +10 Ocean orb could be used for the +8 and +9 refines, dropping their cost to 75 gold each.
Either way, outside of Nirvana gear, it's cheaper to refine your new gear from scratch instead of transferring it via Chienkun stones. Which was exactly what they wanted in PWI. Only instead of making it impossible to use Chienkuns on non-Nirvana gear via game mechanics, they made it impractical via pricing.
The amazing thing about the world today is that people don't pay for practicality...they pay for convenience. Tell me I'm wrong, but (ex.) if you gave someone today a choice between making a pizza for themselves at low cost, or ordering out/buying one from the store, which would most people pick? Most people today are all about less work, and if they can go and do one thing to transfer refines rather than spend 5-10 minutes trying to get everything together to refine something, they would do it in a heartbeat. You forget that a lot of the CSers in this game have nothing better to do than throw money at the game to get the best stuff.For those times when *facepalm* and *headdesk* just aren't enough, I present...*brickhead*...painful, effective, and guaranteed to make you forget why you hit yourself in the first place.
R.I.P.:
SkyLight (faction)
Andracil (teh BEST MOD EVER!)0 -
Heh, you caught my post just before I edited it. I forgot that to refine from scratch, you need cumulative pricing. I've changed my post to reflect that, and it is marginally cheaper to transfer refines than to refine from scratch. You'd still have to be pretty stupid/lazy to do it though. It makes more sense to sell the old item with the refine intact, then use the money to refine up the new item.SinCityChick - Dreamweaver wrote: »Most people today are all about less work, and if they can go and do one thing to transfer refines rather than spend 5-10 minutes trying to get everything together to refine something, they would do it in a heartbeat.
The only case I can think of where it would make financial sense is if you've got a low level item which some person refined up to a crazy level early in the game's history when gold was 100k. e.g. A level 22 Mirage Sword refined to +8. The 150 gold to transfer its refine vs. the ~200 gold to refine to +8 from scratch works out to cashing in the +8 refine on the sword for ~15 million. Which is probably a good deal better than you could sell a level 22 +8 sword for.0 -
the chienkun stone price is ridiculous, if u say its good for transfer nirv gears/weapons, ur wrong... it costs too much for it, ex: u need 213stones to keep the 2soc g13 weapon and 80 for soulstones, thats 293gold and u also need stones for refine depends of refine lvl, same as transfer other gears +12 costs u 1000stones... its just for 1step, if ur going to keep them for both steps... double the golds b:shutup and u need socket stones to make 4soc -.- the price for 1piece of 4soc +12 nirvana gears imagine it ..... if u say just keep the 2nd step, u'll pay more cuz u need 4800socket stones for 3rd soc and 16000 for 4th ~_~
in other servers, this chienkun stone is same price as tisha/tienkang stones, if that so we still need to pay ALOT , but this 1gold/1stone is overpriced, GMs plz think about it, every1 will need too many chienkun stones in the game, atleast 10k+ stones for those ppl who want full set 4soc+12, most of us aint the ppl can make that much and pay 10k+ $ irl for full set b:cry 90%+ ppl will not use the chienkun stone cuz of the price b:surrender dont hate me we just want the game to be better kthxbai0 -
Except that paying to keep your refine level twice is STILL cheaper than re-refining it. I'll use the +5 example again. A plus 5 piece of Nirvana takes 8 stones to keep your refines and two recasts is only 16. This is cheaper than non-sale prices (27) and sale prices (17). The savings would only go up as you go to higher level gear.
As for the sockets I haven't had a chance to check the forges myself but it really depends on how many sockets/what level of stones you currently have in your gear. Also, four socketing and then keeping the sockets is probably FAR cheaper than trying to four socket your Nirvana gear later on and would be a benefit and a savings in the end. If the numbers for the number of socket stones is correct then it would take 1386 gold to take a piece of Nirvana gear from 2 sockets to four. From what I've heard from my friend testing it it only cost 27 to keep his sockets and that is no where near 1386
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Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »These stones good for this reason and this reason alone:
Refinery Lv. will not decrease if the refinery fails.
Why would refine fail if it is being transferred? Are you saying I buy the stones, I use the stones and the stones may or may not work? b:shockedb:cryb:surrender0 -
It takes 119 stones to retain my +10 refines when i recast my Neon Purgatory to Immortal Indulgence-Nirvana. So are Chienkun stones useless? I doubt so.0
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does anyone know how it is with the sockets?
i think of imbueing my endgamegems in tt99 and goin for nirvana part after part, are those transfered 2?0 -
funkadelitsch wrote: »does anyone know how it is with the sockets?
i think of imbueing my endgamegems in tt99 and goin for nirvana part after part, are those transfered 2?
you can select to retain refines,sockets or both.0 -
So I see these new stones and decide to spend a couple gold and some mirages see if i get lucky. I know the rate is extremely low but what the heck it says prevents loss if fails. In long run id probably buy more stones then the orb would have cost but was going to try. Well i didn’t take screen shots because of the description and the words on top of rate chart.wel I tried once on my plus 5 weapon failed no loss, ok weapons are hard anyway so i tried my necklace that was +4 failed no loss. i tried my belt +4 it failed and I loss all refining levels. . The wording makes it seem you will not lose and i just spent 3.6 mill coins to buy and combine orbs to get my belt back to plus 4. This was a great idea and I can see you making more money from people tryin the stones then the orbs but it is very wrong to say prevents loss in cat shop description and item says will not decrease if refining fails.
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ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »It takes 119 stones to retain my +10 refines when i recast my Neon Purgatory to Immortal Indulgence-Nirvana. So are Chienkun stones useless? I doubt so.
It'll cost you 119 stones to transfer only your +10 to the first Recast. It will cost about 149(? ... it's either 10 or 25% more stones for the quench, and I'll use the 25%... if it's 10% then you save a little more) to transfer the +10 for the Quench... So that's $268 to transfer a +10 to fully quenched G15 Nirvana. 3 Ocean Orbs = $225. 1 7 star orb during sale = $101. So total cost to completely re-orb a weapon from +1 to +10 is about $325.
So in essence, you're saving 57 gold. However, you could sell your current +!0 weapon and tisha most of +1-+6 and end at the same price, yet still having a +10 weapon to sell.
That's not including how much it would cost to keep sockets or shards.
I guess that's not useless.
Just sell the weapon and start over from scratch. You'll save a lot more money if the item wasn't bound.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »It'll cost you 119 stones to transfer only your +10 to the first Recast. It will cost about 149(? ... it's either 10 or 25% more stones for the quench, and I'll use the 25%... if it's 10% then you save a little more) to transfer the +10 for the Quench... So that's $268 to transfer a +10 to fully quenched G15 Nirvana. 3 Ocean Orbs = $225. 1 7 star orb during sale = $101. So total cost to completely re-orb a weapon from +1 to +10 is about $325.
So in essence, you're saving 57 gold. However, you could sell your current +!0 weapon and tisha most of +1-+6 and end at the same price, yet still having a +10 weapon to sell.
That's not including how much it would cost to keep sockets or shards.
I guess that's not useless.
Just sell the weapon and start over from scratch. You'll save a lot more money if the item wasn't bound.
With the passing of the x2 event, i cant fanthom how long it will take if i start from scratch again.0 -
It takes 297 stones to transfer a +10 for both recasts according to these charts:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=592792&page=3
The first recast cost 297 x 0.4 = 119 stones, the second recast (quench) costs 297 x 0.6 = 148 stones. Both would cost 297 stones.
To get to +10, assume one does +1, +2, and +3 using only mirages, then +4, +5, +6, +7 and +8 using 1* Dragon Orbs, and +9 and +10 using 10* Dragon Orbs. Using the sales price of 10 1* Dragon Orbs for $1.80 and $75 for 10*, the total cost to get to +10 is $300.30. Compare that to the 297 stones needed to retain an existing +10 for both recasts, and you can see it almost costs the same.
Conclusion: if you are going to stop at the 1st recast, then it's definitely worth it to use stones ($119 vs. $300.30) to retain +10, if you are going to stop at the 2nd recast (quench), then it's doesn't make much difference if you start from scratch or use stones ($297 vs. $300.30) to get to +10. Unless the stones go on sale.
As for gems, it is definitely not worth it to use stones to retain, doesn't matter which recast you end up with.
I don't know how many socket stones it requires to add one socket from 3 to 4 for a Nirvana weapon, so I don't which is more beneficial, using stones to transfer sockets or sockets stone to add a fourth one.0 -
and i tot all weapons have max 2 sockets... me noob b:cryHitokeri - Heavens Tear wrote: »It takes 297 stones to transfer a +10 for both recasts according to these charts:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=592792&page=3
The first recast cost 297 x 0.4 = 119 stones, the second recast (quench) costs 297 x 0.6 = 148 stones. Both would cost 297 stones.
To get to +10, assume one does +1, +2, and +3 using only mirages, then +4, +5, +6, +7 and +8 using 1* Dragon Orbs, and +9 and +10 using 10* Dragon Orbs. Using the sales price of 10 1* Dragon Orbs for $1.80 and $75 for 10*, the total cost to get to +10 is $300.30. Compare that to the 297 stones needed to retain an existing +10 for both recasts, and you can see it almost costs the same.
Conclusion: if you are going to stop at the 1st recast, then it's definitely worth it to use stones ($119 vs. $300.30) to retain +10, if you are going to stop at the 2nd recast (quench), then it's doesn't make much difference if you start from scratch or use stones ($297 vs. $300.30) to get to +10. Unless the stones go on sale.
As for gems, it is definitely not worth it to use stones to retain, doesn't matter which recast you end up with.
I don't know how many socket stones it requires to add one socket from 3 to 4 for a Nirvana weapon, so I don't which is more beneficial, using stones to transfer sockets or sockets stone to add a fourth one.
nirvana ARMORS require 16k socket stones if u wanna add 4th socket[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
scruuuuuuuubs killa b:cute Nation War champion b:cool0 -
According to the link provided in the above post, I would assume it's much cheaper to 4 socket armor first and then use Chienkun stones to retain sockets when recasting/quenching.0
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Nirvana gear aside, has anyone thought about how rigged these stones actually are? I'm not sure about how this works but let me try to get this straight. . .
I can transfer a +6 armor's refine to my +0 weapon simply with some Chienkun Stones?
Isn't that kind of weird? I mean armor is easier to refine than weapons so is this system broken or what?
Or say I find the cheapest piece of gear available in the AH that is +5 or +6 refined.
Can i just use Chienkun to transfer those refines onto a +0 Nirvana piece?
This is so fishy =\.0 -
Hitokeri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Conclusion: if you are going to stop at the 1st recast, then it's definitely worth it to use stones ($119 vs. $300.30) to retain +10, if you are going to stop at the 2nd recast (quench), then it's doesn't make much difference if you start from scratch or use stones ($297 vs. $300.30) to get to +10. Unless the stones go on sale.
Still, it does matter unless the item you are starting with is bound or not. If the item is unbound, you're better off farming/buying a new donor piece, recast/quench and then refine it and sell the old piece.
If it's bound, you're pretty much screwed. If it's not, you can recover most of the costs it would take to get a new donor piece and to refine it during the next orb sale, though it may take a while to sell the old item that is worth 180-200m without taking a slight hit.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Still, it does matter unless the item you are starting with is bound or not. If the item is unbound, you're better off farming/buying a new donor piece, recast/quench and then refine it and sell the old piece.
If it's bound, you're pretty much screwed. If it's not, you can recover most of the costs it would take to get a new donor piece and to refine it during the next orb sale, though it may take a while to sell the old item that is worth 180-200m without taking a slight hit.
how do you derive the '180-200m' figure for the old item? It's not bound btw, at least for lunar.0 -
that chinses site about chienkun stone is wrong to this PWI i spend 48 of them to keep 2 socket at frist cast and 2 to keep 5 refine on my axe!0
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Nirvana gear aside, has anyone thought about how rigged these stones actually are? I'm not sure about how this works but let me try to get this straight. . .
I can transfer a +6 armor's refine to my +0 weapon simply with some Chienkun Stones?
Isn't that kind of weird? I mean armor is easier to refine than weapons so is this system broken or what?
Or say I find the cheapest piece of gear available in the AH that is +5 or +6 refined.
Can i just use Chienkun to transfer those refines onto a +0 Nirvana piece?
This is so fishy =\.
well the problem is that transfering +5 costs 60 stones and +6 costs 80 stones. it would be cheaper for you to refine again using orbs rather than than transfering +5 and +6*Semi retired*0 -
ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »how do you derive the '180-200m' figure for the old item? It's not bound btw, at least for lunar.
Well for me on Lost City...
2 socket Lunar Claws + 2 G11 Garnet Gems + 5-7 star orbs and 3 +10 Ocean orbs....
Assuming you can get a premium for a crafted 2 socket weapon over a Lunar Glade Insignia Weapon, add 2 Garnet Gems, orbs to refine from about +5 to +10... I figure 180m would be a decent approximation.
Lets say 60m for a 2 socket Lunar weapon, 15m ea for the two Garnet Gems, 26 million for each Ocean orb... that would be 168 million... add in a +7 orb and that's pretty damn accurate of a price, eh? That's not even taking +1 to +6 refines in consideration.
Of course, I wouldn't expect to get every coin spent refining it back, but if you were to make a new one, it would cost at least 180m coin. And 60m for a crafted 2 socket lunar weapon is a bit lowball, imo.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0
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